Let’s not Forget about BeatHawk

GovernorSilver

@Simon said:

@GovernorSilver said:
I like the sounds I've heard so far in Beathawk, but i've been unable to figure out how make even the most basic pattern.

Doug is your friend:

When I said "I need to watch tutorial videos" - I was indeed thinking of Doug's videos.

GovernorSilver

@Paa89 said:

@GovernorSilver said:
I like the sounds I've heard so far in Beathawk, but i've been unable to figure out how make even the most basic pattern. I've been able to make beats right away on Gadget and other Korg apps, Elastic Drums, and Stroke Machine. SunVox required viewing a couple of tutorial videos - perhaps the UI is just too different.

I need to watch a couple of tutorial videos at least before I'll start using it more.

It’s the easiest amongst all the Oder drum machines.
What type if difficulties are you facing?

I'm just not used to using the UI - maybe just too different from the Gadget sequencer. When I start watching Doug's video, I could write down a list of all the things that didn't occur to me but that would bore everyone and not be useful.

audiblevideo

@McD said:

@Paa89 said:
If I sample keysape, note by note and import into AudioLayer, would I get the same sound quality as RC275?

Probably not. You can get good sounds but a great piano App also has a lot fo cool extras
to make it sound better like "round robin" of samples, release note samples, sympathetic resonance when the sustain pedal and held notes are played.

But for multi-track projects you will easily get a piano that's "good enough" and you can also
create AudioLayer instruments that are light weight and you can run more instances than the killer Piano apps.

But having said that the Piano choices in many other products are also "good enough".

When you want the best overall piano for IOS you can't beat RC275. The Best Piano for me is
the Crudebyte's Colossus Piano but I only use it for solo playing. It crashes in any AUv3 host.
It has an IAA version and might be a little more stable but at 13GB I keep offloading it from my iPad. I keep a full version with 24GB of samples on my iPhone for that midnight "play the piano" sessions. The "Moonlight So-NOT-A" Piano Player. I can record the iPhone into any DAW and it's more than Good Enough.

The Korg Module "American Model D" is as good as the RC275 but is only an IAA app.

I don't record a lot of piano playing so for practical DAW advice @LinearLineman has
tried "almost" everything and found the RC275 in Cubasis to be the sweet combination to
render a great sound. Then he bought a $3000 Kawai synth and it's a bit better yet. So you $36 (or $18 on sale) RC275 is it.

Let me know if you try the AudioLayer "build a perfect piano" journey. It's easier with SynthJacker to make the samples in a big folder with the right names to load fast in AudioLayer but still prone to making AudioLayer crash. I settled on 5 layers (Velocities = 20,40,60,80,100) and notes every 4 1/2 steps. I sample from a couple octave above the lowest A and a couple octaves short of the highest C. It creates somewhere around 80 files.
I used the 10 second max setting in SynthJacker.

I've made a lot of "good enough" in this way and surprise, surprise... I can only run 1-2 in AUM at one time without crashing AudioLayer. So, using fewer layers and having less RAM required is important for sampling this "High Fidelity" apps into AudioLayer.

I have pulled some good sounds out of BeatHawk, iSymphonic, RC275, etc. They are all flawed clones of the original but definitely good enough. Make enough and you'll find AudioLayer is consuming 20+GB.

There's a sweet spot between resource use and "good enough". It's really a lot of work but
some have climbed that hill. I still had to buy every app to make a bad clone. But I was hoping for massively parallel configs in AUM... It still falls over with 3-4 tracks.

For the best possible solution to date follow this recipe:

https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/33481/secrets-of-the-ios-masters-scottvanzandt-and-nanostudio2-no-auv3-instruments

It only takes a few week to do the work.

This post deserves a wiki entry

Paa89

@McD said:

@Paa89 said:
If I sample keysape, note by note and import into AudioLayer, would I get the same sound quality as RC275?

Probably not. You can get good sounds but a great piano App also has a lot fo cool extras
to make it sound better like "round robin" of samples, release note samples, sympathetic resonance when the sustain pedal and held notes are played.

But for multi-track projects you will easily get a piano that's "good enough" and you can also
create AudioLayer instruments that are light weight and you can run more instances than the killer Piano apps.

But having said that the Piano choices in many other products are also "good enough".

When you want the best overall piano for IOS you can't beat RC275. The Best Piano for me is
the Crudebyte's Colossus Piano but I only use it for solo playing. It crashes in any AUv3 host.
It has an IAA version and might be a little more stable but at 13GB I keep offloading it from my iPad. I keep a full version with 24GB of samples on my iPhone for that midnight "play the piano" sessions. The "Moonlight So-NOT-A" Piano Player. I can record the iPhone into any DAW and it's more than Good Enough.

The Korg Module "American Model D" is as good as the RC275 but is only an IAA app.

I don't record a lot of piano playing so for practical DAW advice @LinearLineman has
tried "almost" everything and found the RC275 in Cubasis to be the sweet combination to
render a great sound. Then he bought a $3000 Kawai synth and it's a bit better yet. So you $36 (or $18 on sale) RC275 is it.

Let me know if you try the AudioLayer "build a perfect piano" journey. It's easier with SynthJacker to make the samples in a big folder with the right names to load fast in AudioLayer but still prone to making AudioLayer crash. I settled on 5 layers (Velocities = 20,40,60,80,100) and notes every 4 1/2 steps. I sample from a couple octave above the lowest A and a couple octaves short of the highest C. It creates somewhere around 80 files.
I used the 10 second max setting in SynthJacker.

I've made a lot of "good enough" in this way and surprise, surprise... I can only run 1-2 in AUM at one time without crashing AudioLayer. So, using fewer layers and having less RAM required is important for sampling this "High Fidelity" apps into AudioLayer.

I have pulled some good sounds out of BeatHawk, iSymphonic, RC275, etc. They are all flawed clones of the original but definitely good enough. Make enough and you'll find AudioLayer is consuming 20+GB.

There's a sweet spot between resource use and "good enough". It's really a lot of work but
some have climbed that hill. I still had to buy every app to make a bad clone. But I was hoping for massively parallel configs in AUM... It still falls over with 3-4 tracks.

For the best possible solution to date follow this recipe:

https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/33481/secrets-of-the-ios-masters-scottvanzandt-and-nanostudio2-no-auv3-instruments

It only takes a few week to do the work.

Hi there thanks a lot for the elaborate answer.
I use Fl studio to sample.it has a built in vst reaper.
It has lots of features.
Audiolayer works pretty well in Cubasis even with heavy presets.

McD

@Paa89 said:
Audiolayer works pretty well in Cubasis even with heavy presets.

Yes it does. I just had a vision of multiple realtime AudioLayer instruments because
1-2 iSymphonic tracks consume the resources of Cubasis and you have to change to building
complexity by freezing tracks.

NS2 is a more optimized sound engine for play back of samples and you can just keep adding instruments in parallel without freezing to 20+ tracks. It has the benefit of NOT using AUv3 to do its magic. It's a walled garden of musical bliss. It doesn't even have audio tracks yet. It might never have audio tracks. I think there are tricks to have Obsidian playback really long "samples" of audio recorded in another app as a workaround to add vocals.

Someone from the NS2 Garden of Bliss will likely comment.

Cubasis attempts to mimic the features of the great desktop DAW's that can scale hundreds of tracks. It quickly becomes clear this is not a desktop OS.

Auria Pro is probably more optimized and has an internal sample playback function that disk streams very large instruments without problems. It ships with the magnificent Salamander Piano installed and can even import and play the 4GB 24-bit "Piano in 162" sound fonts.
I'd love to see that functionality split out of Auria Pro as an AU3v but maybe it would hit the resource limits in any other DAW like AudioLayer.

ipadbeatmaking

@McD said:

@Paa89 said:
Audiolayer works pretty well in Cubasis even with heavy presets.

NS2 is a more optimized sound engine for play back of samples and you can just keep adding instruments in parallel without freezing to 20+ tracks. It has the benefit of NOT using AUv3 to do its magic. It's a walled garden of musical bliss. It doesn't even have audio tracks yet. It might never have audio tracks. I think there are tricks to have Obsidian playback really long "samples" of audio recorded in another app as a workaround to add vocals.

Someone from the NS2 Garden of Bliss will likely comment.

I 2nd this totally. Best place to migrate samples to period!! And the FX section really really can take those dry samples to another level and all the custom macros parameters u can assign to the performance page make it a dream.

Shameless plug but it inspired me to personally make kits and patches I sell on https://ipadbeatmaking.beatstars.com

It sounds really identical to a desktop vst when you take the time and do it right. And it’s oh so stable. I dabbled in audiolayer on its initial release and it had nice moments but it just isn’t obsidian inside of NS2. Ive personally migrated 1000’s of samples and have an extensive video outlining the process in a batch form:

walkie

@ipadbeatmaking said:
Shameless plug but it inspired me to personally make kits and patches I sell on http://www.ipadbeatmaking.com

Heads up: I think your site has been hacked! I clicked the link and got some spammy looking page about Windows blocking something for security reasons (I'm not on Windows) and a login prompt for some other unrelated thing.

Also, I bought your NS2 trap kit a while back and it's great. Looking forward to your next one.

ipadbeatmaking

@walkie said:

@ipadbeatmaking said:
Shameless plug but it inspired me to personally make kits and patches I sell on http://www.ipadbeatmaking.com

Heads up: I think your site has been hacked! I clicked the link and got some spammy looking page about Windows blocking something for security reasons (I'm not on Windows) and a login prompt for some other unrelated thing.

Thanks for the heads up! A working link is https://ipadbeatmaking.beatstars.com

I’ll have to contact them and see what’s gone wrong.

Also, I bought your NS2 trap kit a while back and it's great. Looking forward to your next one.

Thanks so much 🙏 Any kit genres you’re looking forward to in particular?

Paa89

@McD said:

@Paa89 said:
Audiolayer works pretty well in Cubasis even with heavy presets.

Yes it does. I just had a vision of multiple realtime AudioLayer instruments because
1-2 iSymphonic tracks consume the resources of Cubasis and you have to change to building
complexity by freezing tracks.

NS2 is a more optimized sound engine for play back of samples and you can just keep adding instruments in parallel without freezing to 20+ tracks. It has the benefit of NOT using AUv3 to do its magic. It's a walled garden of musical bliss. It doesn't even have audio tracks yet. It might never have audio tracks. I think there are tricks to have Obsidian playback really long "samples" of audio recorded in another app as a workaround to add vocals.

Someone from the NS2 Garden of Bliss will likely comment.

Cubasis attempts to mimic the features of the great desktop DAW's that can scale hundreds of tracks. It quickly becomes clear this is not a desktop OS.

Auria Pro is probably more optimized and has an internal sample playback function that disk streams very large instruments without problems. It ships with the magnificent Salamander Piano installed and can even import and play the 4GB 24-bit "Piano in 162" sound fonts.
I'd love to see that functionality split out of Auria Pro as an AU3v but maybe it would hit the resource limits in any other DAW like AudioLayer.

In regards to the resource memory, let hope apple lifts that.
I ve seen lots app NS2 videos and it looks amazing.Especially Obsidian but I just don’t like the apps interface.☺️

McD

@Paa89 said:
In regards to the resource memory, let hope apple lifts that.

340MB wasn't arbitrarily selected by Apple.
Most iPads hd 1GB and a few 2GB. We now have the highest end $2,000 Pro with
6GB I believe.

340 MB consumes 33% of a 1GB iPhone/older iPad.

If you want to run a lot of heavy weight AUv3 apps you'll have resource problems fast.
So, Apple recommended and enforces AUv3's with some memory rationing. Just changing the rationing to a higher numbers on all devices will just create new instabilities.

Of course, the NS2 developer can exceed 340MB and own the support because the app can
decide it another AUv3 should be started or not. Staying away from AUv3's allows you to
use more of the more efficient Obsidian instances that enforces a 3 layer limit: another form of resource rationing.

Systems designs are a complex matrix of dependencies and compromises.

Lately, I'm leaning towards stable Walled Gardens but I'll still keep cranking out jams in AUM
but for serious production purposes I can see the value of investing in a great Walled Garden. There are a few contenders to consider: Gadget, NS2 are on the top of my list.

Or I might drill deeper into the BoB-DAW (Best of the Best) using the combined assets of:

Xequence 2 (MIDI)
AudioBus 3 (Sync and Preset saving)
AUM (AUv3 Host with Mixer Interface and Audio Record)
Loopy HD (multi-trak sync'ed recording and looping)

I ve seen lots app NS2 videos and it looks amazing.Especially Obsidian but I just don’t like the apps interface.☺️

Yes. There's always something to make you keep looking. Nothing helps you focus like a
deadline to produce a finished work. No deadlines? No finished goods.

walkie

@ipadbeatmaking said:

@walkie said:
Also, I bought your NS2 trap kit a while back and it's great. Looking forward to your next one.

Thanks so much 🙏 Any kit genres you’re looking forward to in particular?

Just remembered I got your West Coast bundle too! No real preference on kit genres--if it sounds good I'll get it.

Paa89

@McD said:

@Paa89 said:
In regards to the resource memory, let hope apple lifts that.

340MB wasn't arbitrarily selected by Apple.
Most iPads hd 1GB and a few 2GB. We now have the highest end $2,000 Pro with
6GB I believe.

340 MB consumes 33% of a 1GB iPhone/older iPad.

If you want to run a lot of heavy weight AUv3 apps you'll have resource problems fast.
So, Apple recommended and enforces AUv3's with some memory rationing. Just changing the rationing to a higher numbers on all devices will just create new instabilities.

Of course, the NS2 developer can exceed 340MB and own the support because the app can
decide it another AUv3 should be started or not. Staying away from AUv3's allows you to
use more of the more efficient Obsidian instances that enforces a 3 layer limit: another form of resource rationing.

Systems designs are a complex matrix of dependencies and compromises.

Lately, I'm leaning towards stable Walled Gardens but I'll still keep cranking out jams in AUM
but for serious production purposes I can see the value of investing in a great Walled Garden. There are a few contenders to consider: Gadget, NS2 are on the top of my list.

Or I might drill deeper into the BoB-DAW (Best of the Best) using the combined assets of:

Xequence 2 (MIDI)
AudioBus 3 (Sync and Preset saving)
AUM (AUv3 Host with Mixer Interface and Audio Record)
Loopy HD (multi-trak sync'ed recording and looping)

I ve seen lots app NS2 videos and it looks amazing.Especially Obsidian but I just don’t like the apps interface.☺️

Yes. There's always something to make you keep looking. Nothing helps you focus like a
deadline to produce a finished work. No deadlines? No finished goods.

Dam..that’s very clear then.
So basically they had to enforce it in order for things to run smoothly on old devices.

McD

@Paa89 said:

@McD said:

@Paa89 said:
In regards to the resource memory, let hope apple lifts that.

340MB wasn't arbitrarily selected by Apple.
Most iPads hd 1GB and a few 2GB. We now have the highest end $2,000 Pro with
6GB I believe.

340 MB consumes 33% of a 1GB iPhone/older iPad.

If you want to run a lot of heavy weight AUv3 apps you'll have resource problems fast.
So, Apple recommended and enforces AUv3's with some memory rationing. Just changing the rationing to a higher numbers on all devices will just create new instabilities.

Of course, the NS2 developer can exceed 340MB and own the support because the app can
decide it another AUv3 should be started or not. Staying away from AUv3's allows you to
use more of the more efficient Obsidian instances that enforces a 3 layer limit: another form of resource rationing.

Systems designs are a complex matrix of dependencies and compromises.

Lately, I'm leaning towards stable Walled Gardens but I'll still keep cranking out jams in AUM
but for serious production purposes I can see the value of investing in a great Walled Garden. There are a few contenders to consider: Gadget, NS2 are on the top of my list.

Or I might drill deeper into the BoB-DAW (Best of the Best) using the combined assets of:

Xequence 2 (MIDI)
AudioBus 3 (Sync and Preset saving)
AUM (AUv3 Host with Mixer Interface and Audio Record)
Loopy HD (multi-trak sync'ed recording and looping)

I ve seen lots app NS2 videos and it looks amazing.Especially Obsidian but I just don’t like the apps interface.☺️

Yes. There's always something to make you keep looking. Nothing helps you focus like a
deadline to produce a finished work. No deadlines? No finished goods.

Dam..that’s very clear then.
So basically they had to enforce it in order for things to run smoothly on old devices.

Yes. And it appears they might raise it for the newer devices (but not for the older).

Paa89

Yes. And it appears they might raise it for the newer devices (but not for the older).

Fingers crossed.
That would be really great for my iPad Pro 11.

GovernorSilver

I watched UVI's own tutorial, which is 2 years more recent than Doug's. It's enough to get me started.

However, I was stumped for a bit by how the 4x4 grid works. I loaded a percussion loop and two instruments into 3 pads, but couldn't get any sound out of the pads. I then loaded a deep house drum kit into the 4th pad. Only then did I hear a sound. I had to record a nonsense pattern with this kit before I could then hear sounds from the other 3 pads.

reasOne

I see beat hawk is 4.99, is that the normal price or sale ?

ZenLizard

I remembered BeatHawk this morning... made this little demo: https://soundcloud.com/zenlizard-music/beathawk-ios-zl_funksco-at-on

ZenLizard

ugh! what’s the code for the compact version of the soundcloud player again? It’s been a while...

RajahP

Ok, so what do you want in BH3? It is about time..
I wish for a great sampler BM3 style.. slice to pads etc, time-stretch etc..

Edit.. and midi import..

topaz

BH3 wishes !

Mixer with auv3 support or/and built in channel strip.

Multiple audio outs.

Post record midi quantize.

Note names in step editor.

Save user pad/patches.

RX2 import support.

Create midi slices from apple/rx2 loops (send to pad).

Midi CC11 expression.

Save songs, patches to user defined folder.

Option to always open AU in full mode.

Export to cubase format.

Samu

For BH3?

Input Channel selection and Monitoring when sampling.
Fade In/Out, Trim, Normalise of samples prior to saving them.
Editing and Detection of Transients for stretching and easy mapping to pads.
Access to synthesis & effects parameters provided by the UVI engine.
More Pads/Banks...

And yeah BH3 could include 'Drum Designer Lite' so we can tweak the sounds instead of being stuck with samples created by an app created by the same company...

Honestly I'm starting to get pretty fed up with one feature in one app, one in another and yet another in another app.
It's like some features are intentionally left out to annoy users

espiegel123

@GovernorSilver said:
I watched UVI's own tutorial, which is 2 years more recent than Doug's. It's enough to get me started.

However, I was stumped for a bit by how the 4x4 grid works. I loaded a percussion loop and two instruments into 3 pads, but couldn't get any sound out of the pads. I then loaded a deep house drum kit into the 4th pad. Only then did I hear a sound. I had to record a nonsense pattern with this kit before I could then hear sounds from the other 3 pads.

Are you perhaps trying to play an instrument from a pad instead of the keyboard? Have you checked to make sure you didn't accidentally mute a pad? I find it pretty reliable.

If you post a video , perhaps we can spot the problem.

reasOne

@reasOne said:
I see beat hawk is 4.99, is that the normal price or sale ?

Anyone?? 😄😄

White

@reasOne said:

@reasOne said:
I see beat hawk is 4.99, is that the normal price or sale ?

Anyone?? 😄😄

It looks like normal price is 9.99, it’s been 4.99 since Aug 6

reasOne

@White said:

@reasOne said:

@reasOne said:
I see beat hawk is 4.99, is that the normal price or sale ?

Anyone?? 😄😄

It looks like normal price is 9.99, it’s been 4.99 since Aug 6

Sweet! Thank ya , I should probably grab er now then

ahallam

@Samu said:
For BH3?

Input Channel selection and Monitoring when sampling.
Fade In/Out, Trim, Normalise of samples prior to saving them.
Editing and Detection of Transients for stretching and easy mapping to pads.
Access to synthesis & effects parameters provided by the UVI engine.
More Pads/Banks...

And yeah BH3 could include 'Drum Designer Lite' so we can tweak the sounds instead of being stuck with samples created by an app created by the same company...

Honestly I'm starting to get pretty fed up with one feature in one app, one in another and yet another in another app.
It's like some features are intentionally left out to annoy users

+1

BlueGreenSpiral

Great sounds, low storage, crazy prices. Check the desktop shop for a shock.

Thanks very much for this lovely hawk UVI 🙏

eve_ripper

I'll up this thread.
Sometimes I think about not to use BM3 live cause it's not working well with AUM. So in my opinion Beathawk is enough as a drum sampler.
But... Here's a thing. I start my project in AUM with audio files. I would like to play in song mode.
Is there a way to set it to work in song mode by default?

Philandering_Bastard

I’m still waiting for them to release their desktop prepared piano as a pack.

rs2000

@Paa89 said:

@LinearLineman said:
@Paa89, reasonably close since footprint a lot smaller for iOS. Also finer adjustments for velocity curve and mic placement not present. However, string res, good EQ and timbre control. It works for me very well.

I see you know a lot about sounds.☺️
If I sample keysape, note by note and import into AudioLayer, would I get the same sound quality as RC275?

You can do that but be warned, it's an insane amount of work.
I've recently created a full grand piano sound including sympathetic resonance and release samples and since you'll have to sample from the app, making it sound like the original means:

• Sampling each note at multiple velocity levels with sustain pedal up
• Sampling each note at multiple velocity levels with sustain pedal down
• Sampling short and long versions of each key to grab both the full sustain as well as the release samples with acceptable level
• Cutting the release samples from the sustained samples for separate use
• Thinking about a mechanism that lets you realistically trigger the release samples (releasing the key early requires a louder release sample than releasing it later)
• Thinking about a mechanism to achieve the brightness control which is basically moving all sample root keys without changing the pitch

Good luck.