PSA: Don't update to iOS 12.4 if you use apps in AB output slot or IAA apps that use the mic.
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/34030/urgent-psa-hold-off-updating-to-ios-12-4-if-you-use-apps-in-output-slot-in-audiobus

Gen 3 iPad pro users: Have you noticed significant CPU spikes?

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Comments

  • @recccp ah I see... makes sense, thanks

  • @recccp said:

    @Hmtx said:
    @genshi @brambos thank you both for getting actual answers on this; I'm glad to hear that the issue is being taken seriously by Apple and apparently has been fixed.

    It is a reminder that Core Audio is a complicated thing and Apple's reputation for "it just works" involves a whole lotta' sophisticated behind the scenes development and management of resources. It does make me wonder if all audio (not just music apps) is taking more resources than necessary on the Pro 11". Even simple things like keyboard click sounds are probably affected in a small way.

    Nothing is taking more resources than necessary on new devices. It's the cpu core management that needs to be fixed/adjusted. I imagine apple tested audio on the new devices for typical use - audio/video playback. For these non low latency applications high efficiency cores are fine, the reason music making community noticed the issues immediately is that for low latency apps to be able to operate high performance cores have to be used. I guess 2nd gen pros should benefit from this fix as well - I think those have high efficiency-high performance cores as well oppose to older devices.

    Optimisation from app devs will probably only cover the size difference.
    Would be great though if apple would allow some hack to enable multi core request for more complex apps like daws.

    Doesn‘t Apple says all 8 cores can be maintained?

  • @Cib said:

    @recccp said:

    @Hmtx said:
    @genshi @brambos thank you both for getting actual answers on this; I'm glad to hear that the issue is being taken seriously by Apple and apparently has been fixed.

    It is a reminder that Core Audio is a complicated thing and Apple's reputation for "it just works" involves a whole lotta' sophisticated behind the scenes development and management of resources. It does make me wonder if all audio (not just music apps) is taking more resources than necessary on the Pro 11". Even simple things like keyboard click sounds are probably affected in a small way.

    Nothing is taking more resources than necessary on new devices. It's the cpu core management that needs to be fixed/adjusted. I imagine apple tested audio on the new devices for typical use - audio/video playback. For these non low latency applications high efficiency cores are fine, the reason music making community noticed the issues immediately is that for low latency apps to be able to operate high performance cores have to be used. I guess 2nd gen pros should benefit from this fix as well - I think those have high efficiency-high performance cores as well oppose to older devices.

    Optimisation from app devs will probably only cover the size difference.
    Would be great though if apple would allow some hack to enable multi core request for more complex apps like daws.

    Doesn‘t Apple says all 8 cores can be maintained?

    To my understanding not a single app can use all cores. Maybe some apple own apps can address more than one for things like offline rendering. But the majority of apps restricted to single core as far as I know. Would be great if dev could confirm this.
    I would imagine if real multi core use would be allowed we would see much bigger performance improvements on newer generations.

  • well, for what it's worth, I tested my 11" this morning. I have 4 instances of Moog Model D running arps inside AUM and AUFX:Push running a side chain comp on two of the channels. Just letting the arps play, the CPU is steady at about 53% and no crackles (AUM set to 256 latency). I thought the problem would be worse, so I'm somewhat relieved.

    The problem only seems to show itself when interacting with the UI. I do get major crackles when manipulating AUM, opening AUM settings, opening and tweaking Model D. Crackle-fest and CPU spikes over 130%. Bummer! I'll look forward to seeing the fix from Apple.

  • @recccp said:

    @Cib said:

    @recccp said:

    @Hmtx said:
    @genshi @brambos thank you both for getting actual answers on this; I'm glad to hear that the issue is being taken seriously by Apple and apparently has been fixed.

    It is a reminder that Core Audio is a complicated thing and Apple's reputation for "it just works" involves a whole lotta' sophisticated behind the scenes development and management of resources. It does make me wonder if all audio (not just music apps) is taking more resources than necessary on the Pro 11". Even simple things like keyboard click sounds are probably affected in a small way.

    Nothing is taking more resources than necessary on new devices. It's the cpu core management that needs to be fixed/adjusted. I imagine apple tested audio on the new devices for typical use - audio/video playback. For these non low latency applications high efficiency cores are fine, the reason music making community noticed the issues immediately is that for low latency apps to be able to operate high performance cores have to be used. I guess 2nd gen pros should benefit from this fix as well - I think those have high efficiency-high performance cores as well oppose to older devices.

    Optimisation from app devs will probably only cover the size difference.
    Would be great though if apple would allow some hack to enable multi core request for more complex apps like daws.

    Doesn‘t Apple says all 8 cores can be maintained?

    To my understanding not a single app can use all cores. Maybe some apple own apps can address more than one for things like offline rendering. But the majority of apps restricted to single core as far as I know. Would be great if dev could confirm this.
    I would imagine if real multi core use would be allowed we would see much bigger performance improvements on newer generations.

    Yes...i think (which means nothing) multi-core is the future. Multi-core support for single plug-ins opened some amazing tools not possible before.
    I don‘t know if apps can be further optimized via vectorizing and whatever there is on iOS. GPU accelerated or such things. No clue.
    Are there equivalents like AVX512 for ARM tasks or so. No clue either.
    However, did no one from the Apple team tested it with Garage Band and some AUv3 on these new devices? Maybe yes but it‘s just a niche.
    However if it‘s solved already all is fine.
    But proper multi-core support for audio apps could be.......here it comes......a GAMECHANGER!

  • @Hmtx said:
    well, for what it's worth, I tested my 11" this morning. I have 4 instances of Moog Model D running arps inside AUM and AUFX:Push running a side chain comp on two of the channels. Just letting the arps play, the CPU is steady at about 53% and no crackles (AUM set to 256 latency). I thought the problem would be worse, so I'm somewhat relieved.

    The problem only seems to show itself when interacting with the UI. I do get major crackles when manipulating AUM, opening AUM settings, opening and tweaking Model D. Crackle-fest and CPU spikes over 130%. Bummer! I'll look forward to seeing the fix from Apple.

    Not bad but far away from the „laptop“ performance they are talking about.

  • @genshi, everyone is so upset no thought to welcome you to this august forum! Maybe it is because I didn't just buy the Pro3
    And consequently not having an anxiety attack. Seems like you arrived in a mininshitstorm. I hope you stick around for calmer waters when we are merely discussing politics or racism.

    But just to say, audiob.us is a very special community. Folks here actually care and help a lot, no matter what the question or problem. So hope to see you around. You seem to know your stuff. That is always very welcome.

  • @LinearLineman said:
    @genshi, everyone is so upset no thought to welcome you to this august forum! Maybe it is because I didn't just buy the Pro3
    And consequently not having an anxiety attack. Seems like you arrived in a mininshitstorm. I hope you stick around for calmer waters when we are merely discussing politics or racism.

    But just to say, audiob.us is a very special community. Folks here actually care and help a lot, no matter what the question or problem. So hope to see you around. You seem to know your stuff. That is always very welcome.

    Thank you for that @LinearLineman I appreciate it. And though I have been away from iPad music for a long while until I got this new iPad Pro Gen 3 (my previous iPad was the iPad 2 which, after a year, was smashed in a performance) I've actually been doing music almost my entire life. My Father started me on drums when I was 4 years old (he was a drummer) picked up Guitar when I was 8, and Synths and other instruments by the time I was 13 or 14. I also use to work in the manufacturing side of the industry as the Senior Audio Editor, Technical Writer, and Product Manager for M-Audio as well as others.

    As for this issue, I did contact my Apple Support engineer yesterday to ask if there was any news on a fix, since this latest iOS update didn't seem to address it... haven't heard back yet.

    Thanks again for the welcome!

  • @genshi, thanks for the background. Seems like you bring a lot to the table. At seventy I am probably the oldest cat on the forum. A NYC guy transplanted to Istanbul. Background is jazz, but love my iPad Pro2. Need I say anything more? When it comes to iOS this has to be the most knowledgeable collection of eccentrics extant. Again, welcome aboard.

  • This whole debacle confirms that I will just keep buying the previous gen iPads, refurbed, that have had the chance to get bugs squished. Will be picking up a 2017 10.5 next year, excited to upgrade from my mini 4

  • edited December 2018

    Following this thread....guess I should hold off buying a new ipad?
    Please post any new reports.
    -thx

  • I hear the second gen pro also suffer from spikes?
    So that would mean unsolved for over a year?
    Is it fact it is really solved or just tamed down a bit?
    Since music creation is the only thing i do mainly on my iOS devices.

  • @Cib said:
    I hear the second gen pro also suffer from spikes?
    So that would mean unsolved for over a year?
    Is it fact it is really solved or just tamed down a bit?
    Since music creation is the only thing i do mainly on my iOS devices.

    I can't compare the models because I only use the 2nd generation (10.5 and 12.9).

    If also the second generation of the iPad Pro should be affected that would be more than bad.

    What if even all iPad pros were affected?

    I would start a large-scale survey and suggest an objective test. Our forum here would be ideal because all users use their iPads to make music.

    This test should be done by everyone under the same conditions. The more users participate, the more credible the result will be. I would also include an Air2 for comparison.

    It would be very bad if we all had bought expensive Pro performance but didn't get it. 😩

  • @Cib said:
    I hear the second gen pro also suffer from spikes?
    So that would mean unsolved for over a year?
    Is it fact it is really solved or just tamed down a bit?
    Since music creation is the only thing i do mainly on my iOS devices.

    You mean 10.5? I got cracklings when I really pushed it to its limits. But not even close with a mp3 file playing back in AUM and some Rozeta driving synths and one noir, Model D, Model 15 instance. Apple should solve that until Christmas.

  • I have a 2nd gen Pro and it does not suffer from the same issue. Mind, there may be multiple simultaneous performance problems with CoreAudio in iOS, but CoreGate on the third gen Pros is worse than anything we’ve seen yet.

  • edited December 2018

    I have this issue also with 2nd gen pro’s.
    Behavior is the same as 3rd gen.
    Same side effects, glitches, but an other particularly strong problem is the drifting tempo drifting switching apps.
    It’s just goes not well with my other iPads in sync (2 pro’s 10’5 and 1 pro 11)

    I just sold a 2nd pro 12’9 to keep my 1st gen pro 12’9, because it was impossible to keep my drums aligned with it !!!

    I’m using this iPad for beats, si it’s super important to keep it perfectly « clean » rather than having more cpu but crackles and erratic desync tempos issues...
    My 2 other pro’s are dedidicated to bass and synths and here I can manage to have just cpu spikes on rare moments and link or sync is not affected at all on them.

  • @LinearLineman said:
    I hope you stick around for calmer waters when we are merely discussing politics or racism.

    😂 Best post ever.

  • @AtticusL, glad I gave you a chuckle. Happy holidays!

  • edited December 2018

    wrong post

  • I'm a bit late to this party, but I'd like to chime in and say that I have all three 12.9 iPad Pros and both the 2nd and 3rd gen suffer from random cpu spikes and crackles. I actually bought the 3rd gen hoping the issue would be fixed with the new, more powerful CPU cores, but it's worse.

    My testing has been based on restoring from backup the same software configuration and comparing the same exact projects in Gadget, BM3 and Cubasis. I've had to adjust buffers to 2048 just to avoid much of the crackles in BM3. There is also a timing issue in BM3 when using FAC AUv3's where the audio has to be shifted by 1/64th to get things right.

    All in all, I cannot recommend the new 12.9 iPad Pro for serious DAW work until (or if?) this get's sorted out.

    ...just my two cents

  • @osc101 said:
    I'm a bit late to this party, but I'd like to chime in and say that I have all three 12.9 iPad Pros and both the 2nd and 3rd gen suffer from random cpu spikes and crackles. I actually bought the 3rd gen hoping the issue would be fixed with the new, more powerful CPU cores, but it's worse.

    My testing has been based on restoring from backup the same software configuration and comparing the same exact projects in Gadget, BM3 and Cubasis. I've had to adjust buffers to 2048 just to avoid much of the crackles in BM3. There is also a timing issue in BM3 when using FAC AUv3's where the audio has to be shifted by 1/64th to get things right.

    All in all, I cannot recommend the new 12.9 iPad Pro for serious DAW work until (or if?) this get's sorted out.

    ...just my two cents

    Very useful info, thanks!

  • This is an important issue, lets keep it on topic: iOS music app CPU spikes with the gen 3 2018 iPad Pro processors. I hope we hear back from those who have connections with Apple.

    [I think the other issue related to CPU spikes and crackles on all iPad pro devices is important too, but would rather it be a separate discussion.]

  • Well I had experienced this kind of behavior from iOS11 where switching apps wrecked Ableton link from apps like Launchpad. In the end I found Garageband was far stable so I get truly frustrated with @AmpifyxNovation but maybe was an iOS issue. First clue.
    Then some bugfixes later (some involving iTrack dock not syncing with iPad) I lost any fate...
    After that iOS12 come and I updated (with fear) but what else I could do? So ATM I don't notice any of these cracking on switching since I only use few monolithic apps like BlocsWave, Garageband (without AUs) and lately testing Stagelight. Time to time Blocs also gives some issues when I switch it but nothing too much problematic in the studio environment.

    Maybe Apple will fix this GUI over CoreAudio someday but for me it will be too late. I lost the trust on Apple for iOS (and keep my fingers crossed for mac but probably I will not update the mini to Mojave and just keep High Sierra to work with Garageband/Ableton Export/Stagelight and nothing else).

    Stopped buying non monolithic audio apps and use any of them only in studio. Started buying more standalone hardware and even stopped buying old iDevices as embed platform for monolithic apps (Looking for Rc505 instead Loopy/GTL and meanwhile I will use Mainstage/Ableton). If oneself make the numbers taking in consideration how Apple is pricing lately all their releases (from iPhoneX and up) it's nuts... to get crackles and still wait for Logic/Mainstage for iOS (or better said iPad since some apps aren't still universal in most cases).
    Here ends my arguing and I hope my experience help others in their path. Mine is out from iOS and today, probably from Audiob.us forums too.

    Best wishes,
    Dubby.

  • Three Obsidian instances and one Aparillo,... cracklingsfest.
    I am so pissed and incredibly disappointed from apple. That is the poorest show... oh the high praises of the iPad Pro bla bla Bahamba....

  • It’s fixed in today’s 12.1.2 beta.

  • @mistercharlie said:
    It’s fixed in today’s 12.1.2 beta.

    Three cheers! :)

  • @mistercharlie said:
    It’s fixed in today’s 12.1.2 beta.

    Amazing!
    Today i opened a preset in AUM which crackled like hell. Then i closed AUM and reopened it. It was way better then. Don’t know why this is but who cares, if they fixed it 😁

  • I installed the beta and loaded up several instances of Model D and Model 15 in AUM. I got to 7 instances, plus KB-1, and it’s crackle-free, CPU around 80%, and no spikes.

    I haven’t tried my Loopy/AB3/AUM setup, which was unusable due to crackling. I’ll test that in the morning.

  • @mistercharlie said:
    I installed the beta and loaded up several instances of Model D and Model 15 in AUM. I got to 7 instances, plus KB-1, and it’s crackle-free, CPU around 80%, and no spikes.

    I haven’t tried my Loopy/AB3/AUM setup, which was unusable due to crackling. I’ll test that in the morning.

    YES!!! So we‘re there yet! Awesome!
    I am not in the beta program but i think this won’t take too long, since they have a big problem in iOS 12.1.1 already.
    That is good news mate! Thanks for sharing!

  • @mistercharlie said:
    I installed the beta and loaded up several instances of Model D and Model 15 in AUM. I got to 7 instances, plus KB-1, and it’s crackle-free, CPU around 80%, and no spikes.

    I haven’t tried my Loopy/AB3/AUM setup, which was unusable due to crackling. I’ll test that in the morning.

    Awesome news! Thx for sharing👍🏼

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