PSA: Don't update to iOS 12.4 if you use apps in AB output slot or IAA apps that use the mic.
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/34030/urgent-psa-hold-off-updating-to-ios-12-4-if-you-use-apps-in-output-slot-in-audiobus

THE BEST PART OF APPLE WWDC/KEYNOTE EVENTS IS...

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Comments

  • @McDtracy said:
    What's the best part of an Apple Announcement?

    Hands on with the new products at Apple Headquarters.

    yah probably... wut?

  • @alteredmoods said:

    @bert said:

    @alteredmoods said:
    So, anybody thinking that Apple isn't going to drop the headphone jack from iPads got a real nice clue in today's "event".

    I will go ahead and buy myself a 12.9" Pro, kit it out, and wave goodbye to the Apple ecosystem. That should last me a few years and let me make a few records with it, and if I'm still making music in 3 or 4 years I'll probably just go back to Windows, get a Surface or something and be done with it.

    Every Mac board I read is on fire with anger from this, but Apple is not interested in its customers at all.

    Those new iPhones may be a little bit expensive but be fair, the new model 2018 iPad isn't. So, it makes no sense to complain about everything Apple does, doesn't it?

    Of course it does. Apple used to be the perfection of form and function. Now, they’ve completely lost the plot. $1450 for an iPhone? There is less than nothing that thing does that makes it worth that price. I don’t care how big, OLED, dual camera, 3D Touch, Maxi FaceID, A12 Supercalifragilistic it is.

    Removing the headphone jack on their pro tablet for what? So I can spend a minimum of $20 for a dongle, that I’ll likely forget? Or buy their substandard wireless headphones that I’ll forget to charge? All In the name of progress? No, I’m good. This event helped me plan out the rest of my time in the ecosystem. I haven’t bought a Mac since 2011. IOS was going to be it regardless.

    And they do this because enough people don’t complain. Enough don’t push back and vote with their wallets. If they don’t remove the thing you care about today, they will certainly do it tomorrow.

    The headphone jack has not been removed as far as I know, not with iPads.

  • @Michael_R_Grant said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    If the iPhone were some lifesaving medical procedure... Maybe...maybe their could be a case for righteous indignation, but for a discriminatory purchase?

    That's the Apple Watch Series 4. ;)

    That’s a good one :smiley:

  • edited September 2018

    @LinearLineman said:
    @PhilW, perhaps you are not familiar with our venerable @u0421793. I believe that his xenophobic remarkwas ironic, sarcastic, facetious and humorous all in one. But you do have a point. I know @MobileMusic is in India, so his reference to Eyemed was completely understandable. Not sure if it exists in the US, though. Probably.

    I moved out of India 20 years ago and live in Chicagoland.

    EyeMed’s website says they are located in Ohio. Wikipedia says it was acquired by Luxotica.

  • @mAxjUlien said:
    As I’ve been saying for decades, if the newest Apple device seems too expensive...IT IS.

    For you.

    In which case an old or used one...perhaps still better than most alternatives. I have a friend perfectly content with her 5s. She’s got exponentially more value out of that phone than she paid. At the time, she was astonished at how “expensive” it was.lmao

    Wether u have a 5s or Xs...you still have access to an App Store that adds exponentially more value than any alternative.

    I have the latest Galaxy...because i need it for testing. Great specs, beautiful phone...moreso than iPhone for sure. Completely worthless to me outside of work use. Same goes for the Surface. Outside of testing...it does nothing special. iPad Pro kicks its ass easily.

    In fact, one app (App Store) is exponentially more valuable than my Galaxy and Surface put together and that my friends, ain’t changing no time soon.

    As long as that’s the case, Apple is a bargain to me. Especially considering it’s popularity means ill get a severely discounted used Xs Maximus Prime (whatever it’s called) in a few months because some idiot over extended himself.lmfao

    A platform without a great AppStore and ecosystem is like a business with no clients or a website with no users or traffic - they are DOOMED.

  • All I can say is at least I've still got my desktop setup and hardware, Apple ain't floating my boat these days.

  • @MobileMusic said:

    @mAxjUlien said:
    As I’ve been saying for decades, if the newest Apple device seems too expensive...IT IS.

    For you.

    In which case an old or used one...perhaps still better than most alternatives. I have a friend perfectly content with her 5s. She’s got exponentially more value out of that phone than she paid. At the time, she was astonished at how “expensive” it was.lmao

    Wether u have a 5s or Xs...you still have access to an App Store that adds exponentially more value than any alternative.

    I have the latest Galaxy...because i need it for testing. Great specs, beautiful phone...moreso than iPhone for sure. Completely worthless to me outside of work use. Same goes for the Surface. Outside of testing...it does nothing special. iPad Pro kicks its ass easily.

    In fact, one app (App Store) is exponentially more valuable than my Galaxy and Surface put together and that my friends, ain’t changing no time soon.

    As long as that’s the case, Apple is a bargain to me. Especially considering it’s popularity means ill get a severely discounted used Xs Maximus Prime (whatever it’s called) in a few months because some idiot over extended himself.lmfao

    A platform without a great AppStore and ecosystem is like a business with no clients or a website with no users or traffic - they are DOOMED.

    Mac AppStore is ghost town.

  • edited September 2018

    @MonzoPro said:

    @LinearLineman said:

    @MonzoPro, I certainly respect your right to your opinion about this subject.. Not sure why @MobileMusic got ruffled, but you are a veteran here, you know how much good stuff he contributes in a fair minded way. A shame to have a rift between two really good guys. Sorry to butt in. Peacemaking bullshit.

    He seemed unable to accept £1475 to £2500 is a price increase, said I should be happy with a smaller laptop for the same price, then called me a troll for disagreeing with him.

    I wish him all the best, but really, I’ve got better things to do than converse with people who think a personal insult is the best way to get their point across.

    Apparently, we both were exchanging comments at 3 AM last night (while I was trying to finish up a complex project that has seamless fusion of 5 scales into one song). I did not mean to insult you - I thought you were starting something by saying I worked for Apple :neutral:

    When you said your MacBook was 6 years old, that flashed me into my memory. I checked my receipt and my MacBook is from 2013. In the same year, Apple introduced Retina MacBooks too but I bought non-Retina 13" with a 1 TB hard disk instead of SSD that had a paltry 128 GB base model and customizing it to 512 GB (max available) was costing an additional $800+ and retina was costing another $400+ (IIRC). I just paid an additional $100 to upgrade to 1 TB from the base 750 GB HDD and no Retina as I got $120 in discount on EPP.

    My coworker who was also looking to buy a MacBook at the same time was torn between Retina and non-Retina. He asked me for my opinion and I said Retina is meant for graphic designers, high resolution photo/video editors, movie editors, artists, pro-grade work - why would you need a Retina? Even MacBook non-Retina has a much, much better quality display as-is compared to Windows laptops! Convinced with that opinion, he immediately went ahead and placed an order for the exact same MacBook Pro 13" non-Retina HDD from his desk.

    Apparently, you bought your MacBook 15" prior to 2013 with no Retina and probably a with hard disk which is why it was cheaper. The current prices of SSDs on the base 128 GB model (additional storage add-ons) are listed below and like I said, SSD is still very, very expensive as of 2018 while an external SSD 2 TB Drive costs a fraction!

    128 GB $200 (total: 256 GB)
    384 GB $400 (total: 512 GB)
    896 GB $800 (total: 1 TB)
    2 TB total: $1400
    4 TB total: $3400

    (Or you could just buy a 15" base model and install bigger SSD and RAM on your own if it costs less that way)

    Back in 2013, customizing a MacBook to 512 GB (max available) was costing an extra $800+. Retina was costing another $400+. That explains where the $1000 price difference now is coming from. But compared to the prices in the past, the current MacBook Pro 15" prices with Retina are still a good deal!

    I was pulling my hair why you want to upgrade in future to a MacBook Pro 15" with Retina - that's like an iPad Pro when just an iPad would do the same job. If MKBHD (who produces 8K videos), iJustine (Apple lover), Casey Neistat, Mo Vlogs or Michael (as an iOS dev) has it - that is fully justified. If you wanted an iPad Pro instead of an iPad, that is justified too but this is a computer. Apparently, you intend to use your 15" laptop at the desk as that size is not practical for travel (I can't imagine flying with a 15" MacBook). If that is the case, iMac is great with bigger screen, keyboard, mouse, etc:

    iMac
    21" $1099 (non-Retina base model but can be customized to 4K Retina)
    27" $1799 (Retina 5K)

    MacBook
    12" $1299 (Retina)
    13" $1299 (Retina)
    13" $1799 (Retina, Touch Bar, Touch ID, etc)
    15" $2399 (Retina)
    Air $999 (non-Retina)

    Mac mini $499 (!!)

    There are always economical options and Apple makes a shit load of money on lower-end products including iPad mini (that did not receive enough spec love). You could write to Apple to offer MacBook Pro 15" with non-retina and HDD to reduce cost - they'll definitely read your message but they may not consider it as they moved most of their products to Retina and all of their products to SSD already. Or they might consider releasing non-Retina 15” with SSD but you should communicate at Apple.com/feedback

    By the way, screen size doesn't really matter once we get immersed into the content. At work, I use 27" dual monitors and at home, I'm on 13" MacBook and don't feel any discomfort. I watch Apple TV projected on a 16 foot wall (without a real TV) and for the first few minutes, it appears like an IMAX home theater but later I forget it is 16 foot and looks like any other 40" TV. I get the same satisfaction watching DirecTV NOW on my iPhone 6s using AT&T's data-free streaming waiting at a grocery store checkout.

    Cheers!

  • @chandroji said:

    @Cib said:
    Mmhhh yeah....iPhone XS max start at €1249....maybe about €1600-1700 for the 512GB.
    :o :o :o

    Compared to an iPad Pro 12.9 V2 the iPad is quite cheap, isn’t it? 😎

    But it’s a dream for iPhone music producers , just a little bit costly...

    Not a dream at all, because you can't run iPad apps on it. And that's where the beef is if you're doing something with audio on iOS.

  • @knewspeak said:

    @MobileMusic said:

    @mAxjUlien said:
    As I’ve been saying for decades, if the newest Apple device seems too expensive...IT IS.

    For you.

    In which case an old or used one...perhaps still better than most alternatives. I have a friend perfectly content with her 5s. She’s got exponentially more value out of that phone than she paid. At the time, she was astonished at how “expensive” it was.lmao

    Wether u have a 5s or Xs...you still have access to an App Store that adds exponentially more value than any alternative.

    I have the latest Galaxy...because i need it for testing. Great specs, beautiful phone...moreso than iPhone for sure. Completely worthless to me outside of work use. Same goes for the Surface. Outside of testing...it does nothing special. iPad Pro kicks its ass easily.

    In fact, one app (App Store) is exponentially more valuable than my Galaxy and Surface put together and that my friends, ain’t changing no time soon.

    As long as that’s the case, Apple is a bargain to me. Especially considering it’s popularity means ill get a severely discounted used Xs Maximus Prime (whatever it’s called) in a few months because some idiot over extended himself.lmfao

    A platform without a great AppStore and ecosystem is like a business with no clients or a website with no users or traffic - they are DOOMED.

    Mac AppStore is ghost town.

    Maybe because they are more expensive compared to iOS apps. But you get apps with lifetime of free updates :smile: Not so if you buy them directly from devs.

  • Sorry, @MobileMusic , not sure where I got the impression you lived in India, but at least you are Indian ( I think). Imagining you in India was much more exotic than Chicago, though. A 16' screen in your home. Sounds interesting.

  • @MobileMusic said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @MobileMusic said:

    @mAxjUlien said:
    As I’ve been saying for decades, if the newest Apple device seems too expensive...IT IS.

    For you.

    In which case an old or used one...perhaps still better than most alternatives. I have a friend perfectly content with her 5s. She’s got exponentially more value out of that phone than she paid. At the time, she was astonished at how “expensive” it was.lmao

    Wether u have a 5s or Xs...you still have access to an App Store that adds exponentially more value than any alternative.

    I have the latest Galaxy...because i need it for testing. Great specs, beautiful phone...moreso than iPhone for sure. Completely worthless to me outside of work use. Same goes for the Surface. Outside of testing...it does nothing special. iPad Pro kicks its ass easily.

    In fact, one app (App Store) is exponentially more valuable than my Galaxy and Surface put together and that my friends, ain’t changing no time soon.

    As long as that’s the case, Apple is a bargain to me. Especially considering it’s popularity means ill get a severely discounted used Xs Maximus Prime (whatever it’s called) in a few months because some idiot over extended himself.lmfao

    A platform without a great AppStore and ecosystem is like a business with no clients or a website with no users or traffic - they are DOOMED.

    Mac AppStore is ghost town.

    Maybe because they are more expensive compared to iOS apps. But you get apps with lifetime of free updates :smile: Not so if you buy them directly from devs.

    Audulus? For Mac bought re-bought, only free if developers make it so.

  • edited September 2018

    @LinearLineman said:
    Sorry, @MobileMusic , not sure where I got the impression you lived in India, but at least you are Indian ( I think). Imagining you in India was much more exotic than Chicago, though. A 16' screen in your home. Sounds interesting.

    No worries :smile:

    I got Apple TV 4 for free from AT&T as part of the DirecTV promotion when it launched - it has apps to connect to YouTube, Netflix, Hulu, HBO, Just Dance, Apple Events, Trailers, Amazon, TED, etc. and many games (from purchases on iOS and also for purchase from tvOS), all I bought was a projector. No real TV.

  • edited September 2018
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • @MobileMusic said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    @LinearLineman said:

    @MonzoPro, I certainly respect your right to your opinion about this subject.. Not sure why @MobileMusic got ruffled, but you are a veteran here, you know how much good stuff he contributes in a fair minded way. A shame to have a rift between two really good guys. Sorry to butt in. Peacemaking bullshit.

    He seemed unable to accept £1475 to £2500 is a price increase, said I should be happy with a smaller laptop for the same price, then called me a troll for disagreeing with him.

    I wish him all the best, but really, I’ve got better things to do than converse with people who think a personal insult is the best way to get their point across.

    Apparently, we both were exchanging comments at 3 AM last night (while I was trying to finish up a complex project that has seamless fusion of 5 scales into one song). I did not mean to insult you - I thought you were starting something by saying I worked for Apple :neutral:

    When you said your MacBook was 6 years old, that flashed me into my memory. I checked my receipt and my MacBook is from 2013. In the same year, Apple introduced Retina MacBooks too but I bought non-Retina 13" with a 1 TB hard disk instead of SSD that had a paltry 128 GB base model and customizing it to 512 GB (max available) was costing an additional $800+ and retina was costing another $300+ (IIRC). I just paid an additional $100 to upgrade to 1 TB from the base 750 GB HDD and no Retina as I got $120 in discount on EPP.

    My coworker who was also looking to buy a MacBook at the same time was torn between Retina and non-Retina. He asked me for my opinion and I said Retina is meant for graphic designers, high resolution photo/video editors, movie editors, artists, pro-grade work - why would you need a Retina? Even MacBook non-Retina has a **much, much better quality display ** as-is compared to Windows laptops! Satisfied with that opinion, he immediately went ahead and placed an order for the exact same MacBook Pro 13" non-Retina HDD from his desk.

    Apparently, you bought your MacBook 15" prior to 2013 with no Retina and probably a with hard disk which is why it was cheaper. The current prices of SSDs on the base 128 GB model (additional storage add-ons) are listed below and like I said, SSD is still very, very expensive as of 2018:

    128 GB $200 (total: 256 GB)
    384 GB $400 (total: 512 GB)
    896 GB $800 (total: 1 TB)
    2 TB total: $1400
    4 TB total: $3400

    (Or you could just buy a 15" base model and install bigger SSD and RAM on your own if it costs less that way)

    Back in 2013, customizing a MacBook to 512 GB (max available) was costing an extra $800+. Retina was costing another $300+. That explains where the $1000 price difference now is coming from. But compared to the prices in the past, the current MacBook Pro 15" prices with Retina are still a good deal!

    I was pulling my hair why you want to upgrade in future to a MacBook Pro 15" with Retina - that's like an iPad Pro when just an iPad would do the same job. If MKBHD (who produces 8K videos), iJustine (Apple lover), Casey Neistat, Mo Vlogs or Michael (as an iOS dev) has it - that is fully justified. If you wanted an iPad Pro instead of an iPad, that is justified too but this is a computer. Apparently, you intend to use your 15" laptop at the desk as that size is not practical for travel (I can't imagine flying with a 15" MacBook). If that is the case, iMac is great with bigger screen, keyboard, mouse, etc:

    iMac
    21" $1099 (non-Retina base model but can be customized to 4K Retina)
    27" $1799 (Retina 5K)

    MacBook
    12" $1299 (Retina)
    13" $1299 (Retina)
    13" $1799 (Retina, Touch Bar, Touch ID, etc)
    15" $2399 (Retina)
    Air $999 (non-Retina)

    Mac mini $499 (!!)

    There are always economical options and Apple makes a shit load of money on lower-end products including iPad mini (that did not receive enough spec love). You could write to Apple to offer MacBook Pro 15" with non-retina and HDD to reduce cost - they'll definitely read your message but they may not consider it as they moved most of their products to Retina and all of their products to SSD already. Or they might consider releasing non-Retina 15” with SSD but you should communicate at Apple.com/feedback

    By the way, screen size doesn't really matter once we get immersed into the content. At work, I use 27" dual monitors and at home, I'm on 13" MacBook and don't feel any discomfort. I watch Apple TV projected on a 16 foot wall (without a real TV) and for the first few minutes, it appears like an IMAX home theater but later I forget it is 16 foot and looks like any other 40" TV. I get the same satisfaction watching DirecTV NOW on my iPhone 6s using AT&T's data-free streaming waiting at a grocery store checkout.

    Cheers!

    The retina model was available when I bought mine, but I went for the non- retina version.

    I’m not debating the new models aren’t better, I’m just stating I can’t afford a base model in 2018, as the price is now £1000 more than it was in 2012.

    That’s all.

  • @MonzoPro said:

    @MobileMusic said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    @LinearLineman said:

    @MonzoPro, I certainly respect your right to your opinion about this subject.. Not sure why @MobileMusic got ruffled, but you are a veteran here, you know how much good stuff he contributes in a fair minded way. A shame to have a rift between two really good guys. Sorry to butt in. Peacemaking bullshit.

    He seemed unable to accept £1475 to £2500 is a price increase, said I should be happy with a smaller laptop for the same price, then called me a troll for disagreeing with him.

    I wish him all the best, but really, I’ve got better things to do than converse with people who think a personal insult is the best way to get their point across.

    Apparently, we both were exchanging comments at 3 AM last night (while I was trying to finish up a complex project that has seamless fusion of 5 scales into one song). I did not mean to insult you - I thought you were starting something by saying I worked for Apple :neutral:

    When you said your MacBook was 6 years old, that flashed me into my memory. I checked my receipt and my MacBook is from 2013. In the same year, Apple introduced Retina MacBooks too but I bought non-Retina 13" with a 1 TB hard disk instead of SSD that had a paltry 128 GB base model and customizing it to 512 GB (max available) was costing an additional $800+ and retina was costing another $300+ (IIRC). I just paid an additional $100 to upgrade to 1 TB from the base 750 GB HDD and no Retina as I got $120 in discount on EPP.

    My coworker who was also looking to buy a MacBook at the same time was torn between Retina and non-Retina. He asked me for my opinion and I said Retina is meant for graphic designers, high resolution photo/video editors, movie editors, artists, pro-grade work - why would you need a Retina? Even MacBook non-Retina has a **much, much better quality display ** as-is compared to Windows laptops! Satisfied with that opinion, he immediately went ahead and placed an order for the exact same MacBook Pro 13" non-Retina HDD from his desk.

    Apparently, you bought your MacBook 15" prior to 2013 with no Retina and probably a with hard disk which is why it was cheaper. The current prices of SSDs on the base 128 GB model (additional storage add-ons) are listed below and like I said, SSD is still very, very expensive as of 2018:

    128 GB $200 (total: 256 GB)
    384 GB $400 (total: 512 GB)
    896 GB $800 (total: 1 TB)
    2 TB total: $1400
    4 TB total: $3400

    (Or you could just buy a 15" base model and install bigger SSD and RAM on your own if it costs less that way)

    Back in 2013, customizing a MacBook to 512 GB (max available) was costing an extra $800+. Retina was costing another $300+. That explains where the $1000 price difference now is coming from. But compared to the prices in the past, the current MacBook Pro 15" prices with Retina are still a good deal!

    I was pulling my hair why you want to upgrade in future to a MacBook Pro 15" with Retina - that's like an iPad Pro when just an iPad would do the same job. If MKBHD (who produces 8K videos), iJustine (Apple lover), Casey Neistat, Mo Vlogs or Michael (as an iOS dev) has it - that is fully justified. If you wanted an iPad Pro instead of an iPad, that is justified too but this is a computer. Apparently, you intend to use your 15" laptop at the desk as that size is not practical for travel (I can't imagine flying with a 15" MacBook). If that is the case, iMac is great with bigger screen, keyboard, mouse, etc:

    iMac
    21" $1099 (non-Retina base model but can be customized to 4K Retina)
    27" $1799 (Retina 5K)

    MacBook
    12" $1299 (Retina)
    13" $1299 (Retina)
    13" $1799 (Retina, Touch Bar, Touch ID, etc)
    15" $2399 (Retina)
    Air $999 (non-Retina)

    Mac mini $499 (!!)

    There are always economical options and Apple makes a shit load of money on lower-end products including iPad mini (that did not receive enough spec love). You could write to Apple to offer MacBook Pro 15" with non-retina and HDD to reduce cost - they'll definitely read your message but they may not consider it as they moved most of their products to Retina and all of their products to SSD already. Or they might consider releasing non-Retina 15” with SSD but you should communicate at Apple.com/feedback

    By the way, screen size doesn't really matter once we get immersed into the content. At work, I use 27" dual monitors and at home, I'm on 13" MacBook and don't feel any discomfort. I watch Apple TV projected on a 16 foot wall (without a real TV) and for the first few minutes, it appears like an IMAX home theater but later I forget it is 16 foot and looks like any other 40" TV. I get the same satisfaction watching DirecTV NOW on my iPhone 6s using AT&T's data-free streaming waiting at a grocery store checkout.

    Cheers!

    The retina model was available when I bought mine, but I went for the non- retina version.

    I’m not debating the new models aren’t better, I’m just stating I can’t afford a base model in 2018, as the price is now £1000 more than it was in 2012.

    That’s all.

    Yeah, that’s because they discontinued non-Retina and HDD from 15” and kept it purely for Pros.

  • @mAxjUlien said:
    Yeah Mac App Store is pretty sad but we know why that is. No one is forced or motivated to cut Apple in on the 30% tax when consumers still go to dev websites for downloads. If that were to change...the App Store would be lit like July 4th. Wait for it....it’s coming. Or...the inevitable merge iOS/OS.

    You've nailed it FORCED. Simple as.

  • edited September 2018

    @MobileMusic said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    @MobileMusic said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    @LinearLineman said:

    @MonzoPro, I certainly respect your right to your opinion about this subject.. Not sure why @MobileMusic got ruffled, but you are a veteran here, you know how much good stuff he contributes in a fair minded way. A shame to have a rift between two really good guys. Sorry to butt in. Peacemaking bullshit.

    He seemed unable to accept £1475 to £2500 is a price increase, said I should be happy with a smaller laptop for the same price, then called me a troll for disagreeing with him.

    I wish him all the best, but really, I’ve got better things to do than converse with people who think a personal insult is the best way to get their point across.

    Apparently, we both were exchanging comments at 3 AM last night (while I was trying to finish up a complex project that has seamless fusion of 5 scales into one song). I did not mean to insult you - I thought you were starting something by saying I worked for Apple :neutral:

    When you said your MacBook was 6 years old, that flashed me into my memory. I checked my receipt and my MacBook is from 2013. In the same year, Apple introduced Retina MacBooks too but I bought non-Retina 13" with a 1 TB hard disk instead of SSD that had a paltry 128 GB base model and customizing it to 512 GB (max available) was costing an additional $800+ and retina was costing another $300+ (IIRC). I just paid an additional $100 to upgrade to 1 TB from the base 750 GB HDD and no Retina as I got $120 in discount on EPP.

    My coworker who was also looking to buy a MacBook at the same time was torn between Retina and non-Retina. He asked me for my opinion and I said Retina is meant for graphic designers, high resolution photo/video editors, movie editors, artists, pro-grade work - why would you need a Retina? Even MacBook non-Retina has a **much, much better quality display ** as-is compared to Windows laptops! Satisfied with that opinion, he immediately went ahead and placed an order for the exact same MacBook Pro 13" non-Retina HDD from his desk.

    Apparently, you bought your MacBook 15" prior to 2013 with no Retina and probably a with hard disk which is why it was cheaper. The current prices of SSDs on the base 128 GB model (additional storage add-ons) are listed below and like I said, SSD is still very, very expensive as of 2018:

    128 GB $200 (total: 256 GB)
    384 GB $400 (total: 512 GB)
    896 GB $800 (total: 1 TB)
    2 TB total: $1400
    4 TB total: $3400

    (Or you could just buy a 15" base model and install bigger SSD and RAM on your own if it costs less that way)

    Back in 2013, customizing a MacBook to 512 GB (max available) was costing an extra $800+. Retina was costing another $300+. That explains where the $1000 price difference now is coming from. But compared to the prices in the past, the current MacBook Pro 15" prices with Retina are still a good deal!

    I was pulling my hair why you want to upgrade in future to a MacBook Pro 15" with Retina - that's like an iPad Pro when just an iPad would do the same job. If MKBHD (who produces 8K videos), iJustine (Apple lover), Casey Neistat, Mo Vlogs or Michael (as an iOS dev) has it - that is fully justified. If you wanted an iPad Pro instead of an iPad, that is justified too but this is a computer. Apparently, you intend to use your 15" laptop at the desk as that size is not practical for travel (I can't imagine flying with a 15" MacBook). If that is the case, iMac is great with bigger screen, keyboard, mouse, etc:

    iMac
    21" $1099 (non-Retina base model but can be customized to 4K Retina)
    27" $1799 (Retina 5K)

    MacBook
    12" $1299 (Retina)
    13" $1299 (Retina)
    13" $1799 (Retina, Touch Bar, Touch ID, etc)
    15" $2399 (Retina)
    Air $999 (non-Retina)

    Mac mini $499 (!!)

    There are always economical options and Apple makes a shit load of money on lower-end products including iPad mini (that did not receive enough spec love). You could write to Apple to offer MacBook Pro 15" with non-retina and HDD to reduce cost - they'll definitely read your message but they may not consider it as they moved most of their products to Retina and all of their products to SSD already. Or they might consider releasing non-Retina 15” with SSD but you should communicate at Apple.com/feedback

    By the way, screen size doesn't really matter once we get immersed into the content. At work, I use 27" dual monitors and at home, I'm on 13" MacBook and don't feel any discomfort. I watch Apple TV projected on a 16 foot wall (without a real TV) and for the first few minutes, it appears like an IMAX home theater but later I forget it is 16 foot and looks like any other 40" TV. I get the same satisfaction watching DirecTV NOW on my iPhone 6s using AT&T's data-free streaming waiting at a grocery store checkout.

    Cheers!

    The retina model was available when I bought mine, but I went for the non- retina version.

    I’m not debating the new models aren’t better, I’m just stating I can’t afford a base model in 2018, as the price is now £1000 more than it was in 2012.

    That’s all.

    Yeah, that’s because they discontinued non-Retina and HDD from 15” and kept it purely for Pros.

    It doesn’t really matter why, what matters to me is I can’t afford the new entry price.

    As for SSD’s, prices are a tenth of what they were back then, and I’m pretty sure they’ve got costs down for the screens too. It was new tech then, so you paid more.

    A similarly specced Dell XPS costs half as much as the Mac. When I bought mine, the XPS equivalent actually cost more.

    They cost too much, and have become rich boy toys. The worry is if their other products go the same way.

  • @MonzoPro said:

    A similarly specced Dell XPS costs half as much as the Mac. When I bought mine, the XPS equivalent actually cost more.

    I'm not familiar with the Dell XPS, but isn't the logical choice to just buy one of those then, if you believe that they're equivalent, yet one costs twice as much as the other?

  • edited September 2018

    @CrazySynthMan said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    A similarly specced Dell XPS costs half as much as the Mac. When I bought mine, the XPS equivalent actually cost more.

    I'm not familiar with the Dell XPS, but isn't the logical choice to just buy one of those then, if you believe that they're equivalent, yet one costs twice as much as the other?

    I don’t want to buy a Dell. I’m just trying to point out, and apparently failing, that MacBook Pro prices have leapt dramatically since I bought one.

    I’ll try again:

    2012 (late)
    MBP £1474
    Dell XPS equivalent £1749

    2018 (now)
    MBP £2500
    Dell XPS equivalent £1200 ish.

    I don’t want a Dell, or a 13” MBP, or a second-hand hatstand. I want Apple to allow those of us who don’t have money to burn, to be able to afford an entry level 15” MacBook Pro like we did a few years ago.

    Over the last 5 years Dell have knocked £500 off the price, Apple have added £1000.

    Allowing for inflation, and special extra taxes for UK customers I’d expect to get an entry level MBP for about £1800. £2500 is taking the piss - particularly after reading about issues with the new models.

  • @MonzoPro said:

    @CrazySynthMan said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    A similarly specced Dell XPS costs half as much as the Mac. When I bought mine, the XPS equivalent actually cost more.

    I'm not familiar with the Dell XPS, but isn't the logical choice to just buy one of those then, if you believe that they're equivalent, yet one costs twice as much as the other?

    I don’t want to buy a Dell. I’m just trying to point out, and apparently failing, that MacBook Pro prices have leapt dramatically since I bought one.

    I’ll try again:

    2012 (late)
    MBP £1474
    Dell XPS equivalent £1749

    2018 (now)
    MBP £2500
    Dell XPS equivalent £1200 ish.

    I don’t want a Dell, or a 13” MBP, or a second-hand hatstand. I want Apple to allow those of us who don’t have money to burn, to be able to afford an entry level 15” MacBook Pro like we did a few years ago.

    Over the last 5 years Dell have knocked £500 off the price, Apple have added £1000.

    Allowing for inflation, and special extra taxes for UK customers I’d expect to get an entry level MBP for about £1800. £2500 is taking the piss - particularly after reading about issues with the new models.

    The spec vs price on the MacMini these days render the entry level as crippleware.

  • @MonzoPro said:

    @CrazySynthMan said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    A similarly specced Dell XPS costs half as much as the Mac. When I bought mine, the XPS equivalent actually cost more.

    I'm not familiar with the Dell XPS, but isn't the logical choice to just buy one of those then, if you believe that they're equivalent, yet one costs twice as much as the other?

    I don’t want to buy a Dell. I’m just trying to point out, and apparently failing, that MacBook Pro prices have leapt dramatically since I bought one.

    I’ll try again:

    2012 (late)
    MBP £1474
    Dell XPS equivalent £1749

    2018 (now)
    MBP £2500
    Dell XPS equivalent £1200 ish.

    I don’t want a Dell, or a 13” MBP, or a second-hand hatstand. I want Apple to allow those of us who don’t have money to burn, to be able to afford an entry level 15” MacBook Pro like we did a few years ago.

    Over the last 5 years Dell have knocked £500 off the price, Apple have added £1000.

    Allowing for inflation, and special extra taxes for UK customers I’d expect to get an entry level MBP for about £1800. £2500 is taking the piss - particularly after reading about issues with the new models.

    The last MacBook I purchased was about 10 years ago, so I haven't been closely following MacBooks and MacBook Pros these past few years, and I do think that I know where you're coming from and you don't like that there isn't an affordable MacBook Pro 15" available anymore.

    From a pragmatic point of view, Apple has made a calculated and deliberate move and since they do not offer an entry level 15" MacBook Pro without the Touch Bar/Touch ID etc., Apple is apparently fine with not offering an affordable entry level 15" anymore. Apple is apparently fine with only offering the 13" as the entry level, budget model.

    I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with their choices. I am just trying to say that there's nothing that you can do about that of course. Apple has made their move and their decisions, and you are free to make your next move and your next choice.

  • @CrazySynthMan said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    @CrazySynthMan said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    A similarly specced Dell XPS costs half as much as the Mac. When I bought mine, the XPS equivalent actually cost more.

    I'm not familiar with the Dell XPS, but isn't the logical choice to just buy one of those then, if you believe that they're equivalent, yet one costs twice as much as the other?

    I don’t want to buy a Dell. I’m just trying to point out, and apparently failing, that MacBook Pro prices have leapt dramatically since I bought one.

    I’ll try again:

    2012 (late)
    MBP £1474
    Dell XPS equivalent £1749

    2018 (now)
    MBP £2500
    Dell XPS equivalent £1200 ish.

    I don’t want a Dell, or a 13” MBP, or a second-hand hatstand. I want Apple to allow those of us who don’t have money to burn, to be able to afford an entry level 15” MacBook Pro like we did a few years ago.

    Over the last 5 years Dell have knocked £500 off the price, Apple have added £1000.

    Allowing for inflation, and special extra taxes for UK customers I’d expect to get an entry level MBP for about £1800. £2500 is taking the piss - particularly after reading about issues with the new models.

    The last MacBook I purchased was about 10 years ago, so I haven't been closely following MacBooks and MacBook Pros these past few years, and I do think that I know where you're coming from and you don't like that there isn't an affordable MacBook Pro 15" available anymore.

    From a pragmatic point of view, Apple has made a calculated and deliberate move and since they do not offer an entry level 15" MacBook Pro without the Touch Bar/Touch ID etc., Apple is apparently fine with not offering an affordable entry level 15" anymore. Apple is apparently fine with only offering the 13" as the entry level, budget model.

    I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with their choices. I am just trying to say that there's nothing that you can do about that of course. Apple has made their move and their decisions, and you are free to make your next move and your next choice.

    Well yeah, I know that. Basically Apple have taken the decision making of MacBook Pro laptop vs Windows laptop out of my hands, since I’m never going to be able to afford £2500 for a laptop. Unless the next OS update cripples it even more, or the motherboard packs up, I’ll keep my old one going for as long as I can, then get a cheap Dell or HP. If the Air’s were 15” I’d probably look into those....just have to see what’s around when this one packs up - probably gold plated MacBook Pros for ten grand.

  • edited September 2018

    @MonzoPro said:
    probably gold plated MacBook Pros for ten grand.

    Perhaps. :)

    I do know that Apple no longer offers a $10,000 gold Apple Watch for sale, so I guess that there are a few millionaires that are probably sad about that.

  • @david_2017 said:
    Oh the best part in the Keynote was for me, the wonderful Reese Bass with legato they used in the first bars when introducing the Xr with the Trailer... that was really good (starting 1:26:36) :smiley:

    Just watched it again, def. the best of the keynote this year

    😂

  • @CrazySynthMan said:

    @MonzoPro said:
    probably gold plated MacBook Pros for ten grand.

    Perhaps. :)

    I do know that Apple no longer offers a $10,000 gold Apple Watch for sale, so I guess that there are a few millionaires that are probably sad about that.

    They could always save up for the plutonium version, it may have better battery life.

  • edited September 2018

    @MonzoPro said:

    @CrazySynthMan said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    A similarly specced Dell XPS costs half as much as the Mac. When I bought mine, the XPS equivalent actually cost more.

    I'm not familiar with the Dell XPS, but isn't the logical choice to just buy one of those then, if you believe that they're equivalent, yet one costs twice as much as the other?

    I don’t want to buy a Dell. I’m just trying to point out, and apparently failing, that MacBook Pro prices have leapt dramatically since I bought one.

    I’ll try again:

    2012 (late)
    MBP £1474
    Dell XPS equivalent £1749

    2018 (now)
    MBP £2500
    Dell XPS equivalent £1200 ish.

    I don’t want a Dell, or a 13” MBP, or a second-hand hatstand. I want Apple to allow those of us who don’t have money to burn, to be able to afford an entry level 15” MacBook Pro like we did a few years ago.

    Over the last 5 years Dell have knocked £500 off the price, Apple have added £1000.

    Allowing for inflation, and special extra taxes for UK customers I’d expect to get an entry level MBP for about £1800. £2500 is taking the piss - particularly after reading about issues with the new models.

    Have you ever communicated your valid concern to Apple? Discussing it on this forum will have zero outcome if you expect an outcome and want Apple to offer low cost 15”

  • The oldest lesson in the Silicon Valley is:

    "To innovate don't compete based upon price."

    I was with Hewlett-Packard when Bill and Dave ran the company and Steve Joes figured out their model. Never compete on price... make something no one has seen before and let it run it's course (DeskJet, InkJet, Calculators, etc).

    There are 3 effective business models:

    Charge less - Walmart
    Give excellent service - Nordstroms
    Innovate in your products - Apple

    Of course, after Apple creates an innovation a competitor can apply stategies 1 and 2 against them: Dell and Samsung for example.

    So, asking for Apple to keep funding the breakthroughs like the EKG (with FDA approvals) on your wrist but selling head to head against Dell is not a scalable business model. It's the way you fail to deliver and become... hmm... Motorola, Nokia, Sony (in the hardware business). You get eaten by someone buying customer installed base. OK... Sony has other businesses so hardware is a loss leader. Walkman, Trinitron... they had their day.

  • @MonzoPro said:

    @CrazySynthMan said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    @CrazySynthMan said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    A similarly specced Dell XPS costs half as much as the Mac. When I bought mine, the XPS equivalent actually cost more.

    I'm not familiar with the Dell XPS, but isn't the logical choice to just buy one of those then, if you believe that they're equivalent, yet one costs twice as much as the other?

    I don’t want to buy a Dell. I’m just trying to point out, and apparently failing, that MacBook Pro prices have leapt dramatically since I bought one.

    I’ll try again:

    2012 (late)
    MBP £1474
    Dell XPS equivalent £1749

    2018 (now)
    MBP £2500
    Dell XPS equivalent £1200 ish.

    I don’t want a Dell, or a 13” MBP, or a second-hand hatstand. I want Apple to allow those of us who don’t have money to burn, to be able to afford an entry level 15” MacBook Pro like we did a few years ago.

    Over the last 5 years Dell have knocked £500 off the price, Apple have added £1000.

    Allowing for inflation, and special extra taxes for UK customers I’d expect to get an entry level MBP for about £1800. £2500 is taking the piss - particularly after reading about issues with the new models.

    The last MacBook I purchased was about 10 years ago, so I haven't been closely following MacBooks and MacBook Pros these past few years, and I do think that I know where you're coming from and you don't like that there isn't an affordable MacBook Pro 15" available anymore.

    From a pragmatic point of view, Apple has made a calculated and deliberate move and since they do not offer an entry level 15" MacBook Pro without the Touch Bar/Touch ID etc., Apple is apparently fine with not offering an affordable entry level 15" anymore. Apple is apparently fine with only offering the 13" as the entry level, budget model.

    I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with their choices. I am just trying to say that there's nothing that you can do about that of course. Apple has made their move and their decisions, and you are free to make your next move and your next choice.

    Well yeah, I know that. Basically Apple have taken the decision making of MacBook Pro laptop vs Windows laptop out of my hands, since I’m never going to be able to afford £2500 for a laptop. Unless the next OS update cripples it even more, or the motherboard packs up, I’ll keep my old one going for as long as I can, then get a cheap Dell or HP. If the Air’s were 15” I’d probably look into those....just have to see what’s around when this one packs up - probably gold plated MacBook Pros for ten grand.

    Don’t update your current machine so it doesn’t get slower than what it is

  • @McDtracy said:
    The oldest lesson in the Silicon Valley is:

    "To innovate don't compete based upon price."

    I was with Hewlett-Packard when Bill and Dave ran the company and Steve Joes figured out their model. Never compete on price... make something no one has seen before and let it run it's course (DeskJet, InkJet, Calculators, etc).

    There are 3 effective business models:

    Charge less - Walmart
    Give excellent service - Nordstroms
    Innovate in your products - Apple

    Of course, after Apple creates an innovation a competitor can apply stategies 1 and 2 against them: Dell and Samsung for example.

    So, asking for Apple to keep funding the breakthroughs like the EKG (with FDA approvals) on your wrist but selling head to head against Dell is not a scalable business model. It's the way you fail to deliver and become... hmm... Motorola, Nokia, Sony (in the hardware business). You get eaten by someone buying customer installed base. OK... Sony has other businesses so hardware is a loss leader. Walkman, Trinitron... they had their day.

    At the moment Apple innovates less, more a status symbol.

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