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KQ Dixie new AU FM synth

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Comments

  • edited August 2019

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Shabudua said:

    @oat_phipps said:
    Never got the love for this. Dexed seems to be constantly working through programming and crash flaws, but it sounds so much better.

    Dexed sounds better? I thought they were both DX7 emu’s more or less. How are their sound engines different? Any thoughts appreciated b/c I’m trying to decide on an iOS FM synth...

    I am curious about this. I found one video last year where someone compared a few patches on actual DX7, KQ and desktop Dexed.

    There were pretty minor differences to my ear (of course the audio was subject to youtube's lossy compression), and none of the three stood out as being better.

    If someone has both, I would love to hear a recording demonstrating some patches where there is a significant difference along with a patch file for the patches.

    All you've gotta test is the original Bass 1 preset ('Highway to the Danger Zone' by Loggins) which is available in both, and compare them against the sampled Bass 1 in FM Player. Dexed gets a lot more of that bite of the original at high velocities than Dixie, which seems muted at all velocities.

    I'm not lecturing you, because it was eye opening to me when it came out, but a run through the free FM player sampler really shows the dirty and gritty edge the DX7 could have. It's not all smooth pianos and tines like many people think. Dexed does a much better job of capturing that personality.

  • @oat_phipps said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Shabudua said:

    @oat_phipps said:
    Never got the love for this. Dexed seems to be constantly working through programming and crash flaws, but it sounds so much better.

    Dexed sounds better? I thought they were both DX7 emu’s more or less. How are their sound engines different? Any thoughts appreciated b/c I’m trying to decide on an iOS FM synth...

    I am curious about this. I found one video last year where someone compared a few patches on actual DX7, KQ and desktop Dexed.

    There were pretty minor differences to my ear (of course the audio was subject to youtube's lossy compression), and none of the three stood out as being better.

    If someone has both, I would love to hear a recording demonstrating some patches where there is a significant difference along with a patch file for the patches.

    All you've gotta test is the original Bass 1 preset ('Highway to the Danger Zone' by Loggins) which is available in both, and compare them against the sampled Bass 1 in FM Player. Dexed gets a lot more of that bite of the original at high velocities than Dixie, which seems muted at all velocities.

    I'm not lecturing you, because it was eye opening to me when it came out, but a run through the free FM player sampler really shows the dirty and gritty edge the DX7 could have. It's not all smooth pianos and tines like many people think. Dexed does a much better job of capturing that personality.

    Could you post samples of Dexed and KQ Dixie with such patches and a sysex file with both?

    I have heard people describe what you say but in the only actual audio comparison that I heard, the differences were not dramatic.

    I am hoping someone will post actual audio.

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @oat_phipps said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Shabudua said:

    @oat_phipps said:
    Never got the love for this. Dexed seems to be constantly working through programming and crash flaws, but it sounds so much better.

    Dexed sounds better? I thought they were both DX7 emu’s more or less. How are their sound engines different? Any thoughts appreciated b/c I’m trying to decide on an iOS FM synth...

    I am curious about this. I found one video last year where someone compared a few patches on actual DX7, KQ and desktop Dexed.

    There were pretty minor differences to my ear (of course the audio was subject to youtube's lossy compression), and none of the three stood out as being better.

    If someone has both, I would love to hear a recording demonstrating some patches where there is a significant difference along with a patch file for the patches.

    All you've gotta test is the original Bass 1 preset ('Highway to the Danger Zone' by Loggins) which is available in both, and compare them against the sampled Bass 1 in FM Player. Dexed gets a lot more of that bite of the original at high velocities than Dixie, which seems muted at all velocities.

    I'm not lecturing you, because it was eye opening to me when it came out, but a run through the free FM player sampler really shows the dirty and gritty edge the DX7 could have. It's not all smooth pianos and tines like many people think. Dexed does a much better job of capturing that personality.

    Could you post samples of Dexed and KQ Dixie with such patches and a sysex file with both?

    I have heard people describe what you say but in the only actual audio comparison that I heard, the differences were not dramatic.

    I am hoping someone will post actual audio.

    Man, I would if I were more technically inclined, and if it was more important than two $5 apps. I hope you can understand my somewhat lazy reasoning.

  • edited August 2019

    You know what, i had 5 minutes, so I changed my mind.

    Soft to hard velocities

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pmnl298GPFlin86HaASWraje4V9zufBV/view?usp=drivesdk

    1) KQ
    2) Dexed
    3) FM Player (original DX 7 sampled)

    Quick and dirty, sorry the FM Player is so much louder. Just the default settings. Not worrying about it since KQ and Dixie are similar...FMP is just there as the original reference.

    @espiegel123

  • As you can hear, Dexed also captures some of the noisiness of the dx much better

  • wimwim
    edited August 2019

    Output level often has a lot to do with people’s perception of similar apps’ and DAWs’ sound quality. Apps with higher relative output level usually sound much better, but if you match the levels those differences often go away.

    When comparing patches between FMPlayer and KQDixie, FMP would always sound better until I first got rid of the FX and then matched volume. At that point they sounded slightly different from one another, but I can’t say either was “better” quality.

  • edited August 2019

    @wim said:
    Output level often has a lot to do with people’s perception of similar apps’ and DAWs’ sound quality. Apps with higher relative output level usually sound much better, but if you match the levels those differences often go away.

    When comparing patches between FMPlayer and KQDixie, FMP would always sound better until I first got rid of the FX and then matched volume. At that point they sounded slightly different from one another, but I can’t say either was “better” quality.

    Yeah I understand that based on my upload, but I let it ride because FM player wasn't the real comparison, it was between KQ and Dexed, with FMP as the golden reference since it's directly sampled from the real thing.

    Plus, they're like $4 apps in the end. Buy both and use the one you like. Not gonna get too scientific over a few bucks.

  • wimwim
    edited August 2019

    Same. I like FMP for not having to mess around and KQD for being able to mess around. Never tried Dexed, only because I don’t need a third DX app. B)

  • @oat_phipps said:

    @wim said:
    Output level often has a lot to do with people’s perception of similar apps’ and DAWs’ sound quality. Apps with higher relative output level usually sound much better, but if you match the levels those differences often go away.

    When comparing patches between FMPlayer and KQDixie, FMP would always sound better until I first got rid of the FX and then matched volume. At that point they sounded slightly different from one another, but I can’t say either was “better” quality.

    Yeah I understand that based on my upload, but I let it ride because FM player wasn't the real comparison, it was between KQ and Dexed, with FMP as the golden reference since it's directly sampled from the real thing.

    Plus, they're like $4 apps in the end. Buy both and use the one you like. Not gonna get too scientific over a few bucks.

    Thanks for posting. Was the same patch used for KQ and Dexed?

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @oat_phipps said:

    @wim said:
    Output level often has a lot to do with people’s perception of similar apps’ and DAWs’ sound quality. Apps with higher relative output level usually sound much better, but if you match the levels those differences often go away.

    When comparing patches between FMPlayer and KQDixie, FMP would always sound better until I first got rid of the FX and then matched volume. At that point they sounded slightly different from one another, but I can’t say either was “better” quality.

    Yeah I understand that based on my upload, but I let it ride because FM player wasn't the real comparison, it was between KQ and Dexed, with FMP as the golden reference since it's directly sampled from the real thing.

    Plus, they're like $4 apps in the end. Buy both and use the one you like. Not gonna get too scientific over a few bucks.

    Thanks for posting. Was the same patch used for KQ and Dexed?

    Yes, of course

  • Fwiw, the Dexed sample is about 6 dB louder than the KQ sample. After adjusting, the KQ and Dexed samples sound pretty similar . I don't have good speakers where I am and maybe they would sound very different if I did. Through my earbuds, they sound different, but I don't find it a "better or worse" type difference or even a difference in accuracy. The FM Player sample does very different.

  • If I recall correctly Dexed has a few alternate dac emulations built-in!?
    Could it be that it’s just using lower bit resolution sine tables to get more of the original aliasing noises while KQ Dixie is using cleaner tables but still same algorithms?

    I can’t use the Dexed iOS UI it hurts my eyes, like physically hurts...

  • I found this tutorial on YouTube - How to add a cart to KQ Dixie for AUv3 consumption:

  • Found this enchanting little video on the ever enlightening discchord.com:
    https://discchord.com/appnews/2019/11/11/ariel-raguet-flores

    Not my video, only wish it was, lol. While viewing, what little remaining of my mind was blown. In other words, highly recommended! 🙃👍

  • edited February 18

    A couple questions:

    1. Does KQ Dixie internally scale the Midi input so it tops out at 100 as with an original DX7? Did this change in the 2.2 update?

    2. Related to the first question, I get a almost distorted sound at the highest velocities. Is that part of how the FM should sound at the highest dynamics?

  • DX-7 patches (from the web) can have a huge difference in loudness, independant from midi velocity.
    Iirc volume is part of the performance settings, not the algorithmic patch.

    There are algorithms that lead to 'distortion' if velocity is mapped to certain parts of the patch, which is in fact intended and part of the design (in particular feedback).

  • I used KQD in AUM with another channel connected to my real TX-7 and adjusted both as close as possible in loudness.
    Dixie is a great manager/controller for the physical synth :+1:
    (tiny flaw: midi destination is always set to 'none' on startup, so it has to be set to the external synth's midi port once per session)

    While the waveform is quite different (comparing recorded results), the sound impression is almost identical in most cases. Very few turned out 'not working as intended', which possibly could be solved by additional tweaking (didn't try that).

    Transfer of a bunch of banks from Windoze DX-Manager was easy, the different handling of patch saving is just a thing of getting used to.

  • @Ziggysane said:
    A couple questions:

    1. Does KQ Dixie internally scale the Midi input so it tops out at 100 as with an original DX7? Did this change in the 2.2 update?

    2. Related to the first question, I get a almost distorted sound at the highest velocities. Is that part of how the FM should sound at the highest dynamics?

    KQ Dixie has quite a few settings that will influence how closely the sounds match AND it has a filter that includes overdrive. If that is turned on, you will generate distortion not found on a DX7.

    KQ by default has higher fidelity than a DX7 but you can change that in its settings to more closely match the original more closely. I personally don't find it necessary.

  • @espiegel123 said:

    KQ Dixie has quite a few settings that will influence how closely the sounds match AND it has a filter that includes overdrive. If that is turned on, you will generate distortion not found on a DX7.

    KQ by default has higher fidelity than a DX7 but you can change that in its settings to more closely match the original more closely. I personally don't find it necessary.

    Thank you for the advice. I determined that the distortion I was hearing is tied to multi-timberal mode, where four voices appear to be causing some an internal overload. I can get reasonable results with 1 voice in unison or 2 voices, so I’m sticking with that for the time being.

    And I don’t know if it makes a difference, but old DX7 emulations would generate overbright/inaccurate tones at velocites over 100, whereas newer VSTs like the Arturia have the 1-100 scaling on by default.

    Either way, sounds great :)

  • Also adding late to the discussion because I’ve been on an FM kick lately: I think Dexed on Desktop sounds more 3D and DX7-like, but KQ is better suited for mobile use, and isn’t far off unless you’re directly A/B ing (and even then, it’s apples and oranges/a very DX7 sound vs an all purpose DX-based FM Synth.)

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