This looks like fun: Layr

Will

@hellquist That's what it looks like from this side of the screenshots: a solid synth. There are definitely interesting looking controls within the layer editor (interesting enough to bring the weird/depth all on its own I mean) but this thing shouts 'Modern M1' to me. Not the dated/bland bits of the M1—the "solid player's synth" bits.

Speaking of, can you velocity cross-fade layers? Any plans for sample based layers?

Also, is there any notion of 'Follow the selected Layer' with regard to external MIDI CC control? I'm wondering about setting up an external MIDI map once for as many Layer editor controls as it will let me but would then need a 'CCs point to whichever layer you have selected' or similar for that to be practical on a synth with a jillion possible layers.

srcer

@hellquist could you elaborate on the "bunch of apps" you'd be replacing with this? Curious what setup you're currently using

hellquist

@syrupcore said:
@hellquist That's what it looks like from this side of the screenshots: a solid synth. There are definitely interesting looking controls within the layer editor (interesting enough to bring the weird/depth all on its own I mean) but this thing shouts 'Modern M1' to me. Not the dated/bland bits of the M1—the "solid player's synth" bits.

Aye, that.

Speaking of, can you velocity cross-fade layers? Any plans for sample based layers?

Hmm...I don't have a good way of testing this. My keyboard triggers aftertouch velocity when I try to bind it to the layer volume, and LayR picks that (the actual aftertouch value) as the controller. If that is what you want, then yes, as you (with all controls) both can midi bind them and also can invert them if you want to. This means cross-fading is possible. I just don't know how to trigger on the velocity of the initial press, as the aftertouch will take over in being the last cc sent.

As for sample based layers: no idea. I would love it, but currently I can't see how it would get in there. I could also imagine that would require a massive re-work of the underlying architecture, as loading 128/256 layers with samples is a whole other thing compared to just loading values for a set amount of controls. This is just me guessing. I know programming, but I don't know app development.

Also, is there any notion of 'Follow the selected Layer' with regard to external MIDI CC control? I'm wondering about setting up an external MIDI map once for as many Layer editor controls as it will let me but would then need a 'CCs point to whichever layer you have selected' or similar for that to be practical on a synth with a jillion possible layers.

Every control on the layer screen is midi assignable (that in itself is a wow to me), right? You then have 4 groups of midi controllers. This means you can set up controllers in one layer, and the other layers can follow that layer. Also, when you copy a layer you are given an option of copy it AND keep them linked, OR having the copy detached from the original, so quite quick/easy to set up.

Does that answer the questions, or did I confuse things?

hellquist

@srcer said:
@hellquist could you elaborate on the "bunch of apps" you'd be replacing with this? Curious what setup you're currently using

It varies, but that in itself is another reason I like LayR: it will stop varying.
To give you an idea I spent quite a lot of time last year creating a set-up where the intention was to not have to touch my screen that much. I'm originally a guitarist so playing advanced stuff on keyboards require my full concentration, hehe. I can show you a couple of set-ups that I discarded, so you get a feeling of what I was aiming for. These set-ups all failed for the mentioned (in image) reasons though.

[Deleted User]

@hellquist said:

@srcer said:
@hellquist could you elaborate on the "bunch of apps" you'd be replacing with this? Curious what setup you're currently using

It varies, but that in itself is another reason I like LayR: it will stop varying.
To give you an idea I spent quite a lot of time last year creating a set-up where the intention was to not have to touch my screen that much. I'm originally a guitarist so playing advanced stuff on keyboards require my full concentration, hehe. I can show you a couple of set-ups that I discarded, so you get a feeling of what I was aiming for. These set-ups all failed for the mentioned (in image) reasons though.

Blimey...they'd be smoke coming out of my iPad if I tried loading all that lot up!

srcer

@hellquist Wow, some heavy setups!
Perhaps the more interesting question is what bits you'll still be using?

Audiojunkie

@hellquist said:

@skiphunt said:
So, you've had access and are thus a beta-tester? And likely won't need to buy it anyway? Not that it matters, but I tend to rate apps I didn't have to pay for as a beta tester, with higher value that if I have to actually buy them myself.

I get what you're saying about paying more for apps you barely use. I'm still holding hope that I'll actually get into using Audulus 3, but it's been gathering a lot of dust. I also paid full price for iWavestation based on all the forum hype, but that one rarely actually get used. Not that it's not worth the cost, but I've never quite figured out how to tame the mayhem on that one, and thus it never became a "go-to" for anything. Been revisiting it lately though.

I'm not saying LayR doesn't appear to be worth $20. But, it does appear to have a higher level of complexity and possibly a steep learning curve to get the most out of it... at least for a novice like me. It might also end up being more of a "niche" app and not do as much volume sales as some of the simpler apps with novice-friendly interfaces, so the price will likely need to be in that range to make the development hopefully pay off.

Apps like the new KRFT offer a huge amount of value for a large cross-section of the typical user base, so they can likely get away with a lower price-point and still make decent profit. LayR doesn't appear to be in that category, though it does appear to offer a great deal of potential varieties of sound and use.

Not really. I actually heard of LayR for the first time 3 days ago (which in itself is strange, I'm usually a lot more clued up, almost always "knowing someone who knows something" etc and I've beta tested a fair share on other apps.

As I read up on LayR, and subsequently watched the video, all the experiments I've been doing over the last year, fell into place when I realised the potential of LayR. I saw the note on their web site regarding "preset competition" so I sent them a couple of e-mails. I was given access mainly so they could get me out of their hair (hehe), and I've had access for 2 days now. I have had no influence on functionality or UI what-so-ever, and given the state it is in I can't think of much to improve (though we, the users, probably will find a few things as time/usage teaches us where gaps might be).

I am trying to put together presets though, because I can, and it is fun. I will not be able to make it in time for the initial launch in any case, but I will make a bunch of presets anyways (if nothing else as I need them), maybe a couple are good enough to be included in a future update, who knows?

First and foremost the dev is a musician, who has created an instrument he would like to use. This shines through in pretty much every aspect of the app. This will or will not appeal to other musicians, but I don't think casual fly-by users is the target audience, true enough.

For me though, I see LayR as a to-be-default replacement for a bunch of apps that I normally run at the same time (I have my midi keyboard configured to output on 13 separate channels depending on various controllers on it), and a very efficient replacement at that (again, less moving parts). All my testing has so far confirmed this too, as it is great for many types of sounds (bass, leads, keys, drones and oh-so-glorious evolving pads...and then the arp of course...) that cover the style of music I'm currently making. I just need to complement it with the odd app here and there in the future (natural pianos, drums etc which I don't like making synthesised presets for).

If BM3 is everything Samu implies it is, it sounds like a match made in heaven for LayR, and not much else would be needed for a very efficient and flexible set-up.

Well said @hellquist! I believe Mathias and I both discovered this app minutes apart on the same thread. This app (and BM3) are what my dreams are made of!!

hellquist

@srcer said:
@hellquist Wow, some heavy setups!
Perhaps the more interesting question is what bits you'll still be using?

Indeed what I need to work out myself. This is why I'm having hopes on BM3 having an awesome midi sequencer, on top of the very impressive spec they've presented so far. With all it's Ableton-esque promises I am thinking it could be ideal for my purposes.

At the time of typing this I am mainly doing presets in LayR, and thus only currently have the following running:

Midiflow (always, as it sorts out my keyboard)
AUM for IAA hosting: ModStep (so I can quickly reach it if I need to), LayR (to see if I run into any stability issues whilst working in it) and Gadget (I have a couple of presets in there I'm trying to emulate in LayR).

Thinking of the future, I think LayR can replace some apps I normally use, for example:
Bass - iSEM and/or TF7 or (currently) Gadget
Leads - Animoog and RedShrike and Gadget
Pads - Thor/Nave/Alchemy (not so sure about swapping out Nave though. Alchemy I'm trying to get by without as I suspect it'll die on me anyways sometime soon, might as well prepare myself for it)
General keys - Lorentz/Laplace/Mersenne

When it comes to natural instruments I haven't decided what to keep/use really, and it has been more of a theoretical scenario so far. I've used Module via Gadget a bit of late, but it doesn't cover everything. Don't know if I should even look for something that covers everything on that topic though, I'm thinking my main concern is to replace the many many apps I need to start up habitually, and keep that number down, but still have a lean mean fighting machine where I can swap in what I need as and when I need it.

Will

Thanks again @hellquist

AudioGus

@hellquist said:

@srcer said:
@hellquist could you elaborate on the "bunch of apps" you'd be replacing with this? Curious what setup you're currently using

It varies, but that in itself is another reason I like LayR: it will stop varying.
To give you an idea I spent quite a lot of time last year creating a set-up where the intention was to not have to touch my screen that much. I'm originally a guitarist so playing advanced stuff on keyboards require my full concentration, hehe. I can show you a couple of set-ups that I discarded, so you get a feeling of what I was aiming for. These set-ups all failed for the mentioned (in image) reasons though.

Wow, that is super thinky!

JohnnyGoodyear

@AudioGus said:

@hellquist said:

@srcer said:
@hellquist could you elaborate on the "bunch of apps" you'd be replacing with this? Curious what setup you're currently using

It varies, but that in itself is another reason I like LayR: it will stop varying.
To give you an idea I spent quite a lot of time last year creating a set-up where the intention was to not have to touch my screen that much. I'm originally a guitarist so playing advanced stuff on keyboards require my full concentration, hehe. I can show you a couple of set-ups that I discarded, so you get a feeling of what I was aiming for. These set-ups all failed for the mentioned (in image) reasons though.

Wow, that is super thinky!

@hellquist I think there are shadowy areas of the deep government where your skills may be required.

hellquist

@JohnnyGoodyear & @AudioGus: Hehe, yeah, I can completely nerd out on things when I have an idea, and I rarely leave one stone unturned. It was good though. Even though none of those set-ups worked, one of the take-aways I came away with was a couple of great templates in MidiFlow, which is always applicable to my midi controllers, as well as getting a bunch of good starting templates in Gadget, Auria, ModStep, Loopy along with decent configuration saves in AUM & AudioBus. All that experimenting made me quicker to the mark when I have a musical idea, regardless of what set-up I decide to go for. I have removed a lot of obstacles that can be so distracting when you just want to play/record something.

Now, if I get a bunch of my base sounds in to LayR, which will have an ever growing library of building blocks for me, it'll be even quicker, and less prone to set-up fail, as well as be even more stable; as guessed by @MonzoPro , the CPU of my iPad Pro had to work quite hard in a couple of those set-ups (though it actually worked surprisingly well). I'm sure I can find ways to tax the CPU still, but I'm so far really impressed with LayRs CPU usage given the flexibility I get and the apps it replaces (which used even more CPU), and I don't mind having some head room.

[Deleted User]

More demos please

hellquist

@MusicMan4Christ said:
More demos please

I shall see when I find the time to make some demos, to be honest I've been all caught up in creating sounds and playing with it. Me and LayR have bonded you might say, and it teaches me it really is as good as I thought it was (actually better, but I wont tell you that as your expectations might shoot through the roof then). I know that Living Memory software (the dev) is working on both tutorials and demos though.

JohnnyGoodyear

@hellquist said:

@MusicMan4Christ said:
More demos please

I shall see when I find the time to make some demos, to be honest I've been all caught up in creating sounds and playing with it. Me and LayR have bonded you might say, and it teaches me it really is as good as I thought it was (actually better, but I wont tell you that as your expectations might shoot through the roof then). I know that Living Memory software (the dev) is working on both tutorials and demos though.

More to the immediate point: When? Roughly?

hellquist

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
More to the immediate point: When? Roughly?

Yesh. The million dollar question of course. Now, as I'm merely a fan and not the dev I would be silly to give the impression of doing promises on the devs behalf, and anything I say should be treated as hearsay, right?

1-2 weeks? This month if things go awry? It needs to be submitted and then Apple needs to do their thing (which can be a pain in itself, though I struggle to see what they possibly could complain about with this app).

I was thinking it was going to be submitted this week, but the dev (who is REALLY on to things) have found further improvements twice this week (which is the time I've had access to it) so don't know if it is/has been submitted or not. But all of this is hearsay of course, and besides I've had a couple of pints.

skiphunt

I was hoping to slip into the tail end of the beta yesterday, but the dev said he's ended the beta testing and the app will be released in a few days.

Tritonman

Would make a great weekend treat!?

db909

Guaranteed hit with this topic. You're welcome dev. Lol

aaronpc

@hellquist Will it have state saving, or will loading performance presets be the way to re-open up current projects?

hellquist

@aaronpc said:
@hellquist Will it have state saving, or will loading performance presets be the way to re-open up current projects?

Yeah, that's it, performances save all settings for the instruments (which includes the layers) as well as the arp. I just tried to load it both in AB and in AUM, change performance, changing a couple of settings, closing it all in between etc, but LayR comes back with default preset when started. The performance is currently the way to load your stuff.

aaronpc

@hellquist said:

@aaronpc said:
@hellquist Will it have state saving, or will loading performance presets be the way to re-open up current projects?

Yeah, that's it, performances save all settings for the instruments (which includes the layers) as well as the arp. I just tried to load it both in AB and in AUM, change performance, changing a couple of settings, closing it all in between etc, but LayR comes back with default preset when started. The performance is currently the way to load your stuff.

Thx. I'm pretty sure if it works for you, it'll work for me.

Tritonman

Waiting for ever to use a gift card, Nothing else out this past week I am interested in but this will get the cash if it makes it out before the new IAP's for drum session which have been delayed for yet another week at least.

hellquist

@aaronpc said:

@hellquist said:

@aaronpc said:
@hellquist Will it have state saving, or will loading performance presets be the way to re-open up current projects?

Yeah, that's it, performances save all settings for the instruments (which includes the layers) as well as the arp. I just tried to load it both in AB and in AUM, change performance, changing a couple of settings, closing it all in between etc, but LayR comes back with default preset when started. The performance is currently the way to load your stuff.

Thx. I'm pretty sure if it works for you, it'll work for me.

Haha, you know what? I have been doing state saving in AB completely wrongly, like forever.
State saving in AB works fine in LayR. It comes back with the correct performance and settings. My test yesterday (admittedly in sofa in front of a movie, on my phone only) was incorrect. Now we know that too.

hellquist

LayR is today being submitted to Apple for review. The countdown is about to end.
Living Memory software also has added a forum to their web site. Go check it out in preparation for some Q & A, preset sharing (hopefully) etc: http://www.livingmemorysoftware.com/joomla/

ccs2

@hellquist said:
LayR is today being submitted to Apple for review. The countdown is about to end.

Yay!

Living Memory software also has added a forum to their web site. Go check it out in preparation for some Q & A, preset sharing (hopefully) etc: http://www.livingmemorysoftware.com/joomla/

... & from their forum: Living Memory Software Living Memory Software Dream On! Monday, 06 March 2017
Here's a list of things already on the todo list, in no particular order except for the first one ...

Live link ( asap )
Searchable category tags for presets in filing views.
In stereo mix enable toggle FX send on/off for individual instruments.
MIDI output port for the onscreen keyboard and arpeggiator.
State saving on quit and launch.
Moveable instrument and layer strips
Add Pitch Bend to onscreen keyboard.
XY Pad.
CC midi mapping template to apply to layer.

Will

@ccs2 said:

@hellquist said:
LayR is today being submitted to Apple for review. The countdown is about to end.

Yay!

Living Memory software also has added a forum to their web site. Go check it out in preparation for some Q & A, preset sharing (hopefully) etc: http://www.livingmemorysoftware.com/joomla/

... & from their forum: Living Memory Software Living Memory Software Dream On! Monday, 06 March 2017
Here's a list of things already on the todo list, in no particular order except for the first one ...

Live link ( asap )
Searchable category tags for presets in filing views.
In stereo mix enable toggle FX send on/off for individual instruments.
MIDI output port for the onscreen keyboard and arpeggiator.
State saving on quit and launch.
Moveable instrument and layer strips
Add Pitch Bend to onscreen keyboard.
XY Pad.
CC midi mapping template to apply to layer.

Wow. That's a nice next list right there.

Will

@hellquist said:

@aaronpc said:

@hellquist said:

@aaronpc said:
@hellquist Will it have state saving, or will loading performance presets be the way to re-open up current projects?

Yeah, that's it, performances save all settings for the instruments (which includes the layers) as well as the arp. I just tried to load it both in AB and in AUM, change performance, changing a couple of settings, closing it all in between etc, but LayR comes back with default preset when started. The performance is currently the way to load your stuff.

Thx. I'm pretty sure if it works for you, it'll work for me.

Haha, you know what? I have been doing state saving in AB completely wrongly, like forever.
State saving in AB works fine in LayR. It comes back with the correct performance and settings. My test yesterday (admittedly in sofa in front of a movie, on my phone only) was incorrect. Now we know that too.

With that knowledge, time to revisit some of those set ups?

hellquist

@syrupcore said:

@hellquist said:

@aaronpc said:

@hellquist said:

@aaronpc said:
@hellquist Will it have state saving, or will loading performance presets be the way to re-open up current projects?

Yeah, that's it, performances save all settings for the instruments (which includes the layers) as well as the arp. I just tried to load it both in AB and in AUM, change performance, changing a couple of settings, closing it all in between etc, but LayR comes back with default preset when started. The performance is currently the way to load your stuff.

Thx. I'm pretty sure if it works for you, it'll work for me.

Haha, you know what? I have been doing state saving in AB completely wrongly, like forever.
State saving in AB works fine in LayR. It comes back with the correct performance and settings. My test yesterday (admittedly in sofa in front of a movie, on my phone only) was incorrect. Now we know that too.

With that knowledge, time to revisit some of those set ups?

No need to. You see, I only came to being musically creative december last year after a dry 2016. Had a great Jan/Feb 2016, then it just went away. Nothing. So I started fiddling with set-ups whilst waiting for musical inspiration to come back, and because it made me feel close to it so I wouldn't have a too long (re-)start-up stretch when it would come back (which I knew it would, and now has, almost bubbling over). None of the set-ups I did actually led to music, as I had no music. They were prepared for state saving though, but there was no state to save.

skiphunt

@hellquist said:

@syrupcore said:

@hellquist said:

@aaronpc said:

@hellquist said:

@aaronpc said:
@hellquist Will it have state saving, or will loading performance presets be the way to re-open up current projects?

Yeah, that's it, performances save all settings for the instruments (which includes the layers) as well as the arp. I just tried to load it both in AB and in AUM, change performance, changing a couple of settings, closing it all in between etc, but LayR comes back with default preset when started. The performance is currently the way to load your stuff.

Thx. I'm pretty sure if it works for you, it'll work for me.

Haha, you know what? I have been doing state saving in AB completely wrongly, like forever.
State saving in AB works fine in LayR. It comes back with the correct performance and settings. My test yesterday (admittedly in sofa in front of a movie, on my phone only) was incorrect. Now we know that too.

With that knowledge, time to revisit some of those set ups?

No need to. You see, I only came to being musically creative december last year after a dry 2016. Had a great Jan/Feb 2016, then it just went away. Nothing. So I started fiddling with set-ups whilst waiting for musical inspiration to come back, and because it made me feel close to it so I wouldn't have a too long (re-)start-up stretch when it would come back (which I knew it would, and now has, almost bubbling over). None of the set-ups I did actually led to music, as I had no music. They were prepared for state saving though, but there was no state to save.

How large is the install?