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Song of the Month Club - March

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Comments

  • I think I like it Johnny. It's s good idea. I didn't catch every word you were saying (some if it's spoken quite fast) and I must admit to not understanding 100% of it (how's he supposed to have met khrushchev?) but I think I got most of it and it's an interesting concept and an original idea.

    Great footage as always, music seemed to slightly play a supporting role in this one - so although I watched it twice last night I can't honestly remember the music to be honest. I remember liking it when the beat came in :). I was too busy trying to work out what it was saying!

  • edited March 2015

    Thanks all for taking the moment etc. I appreciate it.

    @richardyot I know want you mean about the spoken voice only 'taking you so far'. I got a bit defensive about this on first reading because as an open-mic poet guy of long standing etc etc but then deep in my black heart recognize that I'm not getting what I might out of this monthly experiment in terms of 'failing to moving the ball forward' (Mrs. Goodyear's favorite remonstration :) without also humming along a little however much more comfortable I may be declaiming. Point gently made well taken.

    @Matt_Fletcher_2000 I've had a couple of DMs (you know who you are) full of encouragement but asking that I paste the words into the post for reading. Which tells me I am putting too much 'stuff' on the spoken words and thus ending up with them being too occluded. On the other hand I like the sound like that rather than flat. Probably inexperienced/cack-handed mixing on my part.

  • edited March 2015

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:
    richardyot I know want you mean about the spoken voice only 'taking you so far'. I got a bit defensive about this on first reading because as an open-mic poet guy of long standing etc etc but then deep in my black heart recognize that I'm not getting what I might out of this monthly experiment

    Well you're interested in music, otherwise you wouldn't be here, and I'm sure that you want your music to be more than just background.

    It's difficult, because you already have a strong and established artistic identity, that no doubt has taken years to develop. It's a complicated place to be, because on the one hand you have a distinctive voice and something to say - both tremendous assets for any artist. But on the other hand if you're going to sing then you have to deal with the whole starting from nothing and learning part, so there's a mountain to climb, and it's completely natural to feel resistance to this, because the of the work involved and the fear/insecurity it engenders.

    But if you are drawn to music, you have to follow through. I really think you have tremendous potential as someone who can do interesting and original work. What music can add to your words is an emotional dimension that spoken words can't reach, and also it could really help to make your work and words more accessible.

    This is all IMO of course, you may disagree if I've got things wrong.

  • My entry for this month, as ever the vocals are the weakest link. I used Melodyne to iron out some of the rough edges, but even so there are timing issues with the singing. Hopefully another year or two of practice and I will be able to do a bit better.

    Apart from the Melodyne work everything is iOS, the guitars are recorded through Flying Haggis and Tonestack. The one bit that I think does work is the guitar at the end, it's a pretty simple part but it builds nicely.

  • Yes, @richardyot I also think that the guitar at the end is really good. I also quite like the rest of the song too :) The only comment I have is that the mix sounds a little trebly (too much top end and not a lot of bottom end for the bass and drums)

  • @AlterEgo_UK said:
    the mix sounds a little trebly (too much top end and not a lot of bottom end for the bass and drums)

    Thanks for the comment - the mix issues are from mixing on headphones, it's an ongoing problem I have but all my mixes end up sounding thin. I really appreciate the confirmation though, I need to address this.

  • @richardyot First off, thanks for your comments upthread. Very thoughtful and thought-provoking. Appreciated. This is one of my favorite series of threads at the forum, because they offer a little space for practical and well-meant/constructive criticism.

    As regards 'Scared of the Dark':

    You are The Jesus and Mary Chain and I want my five fried pizzas!

    Have to go along with @AlterEgo_UK as regards the mix, but you know that already. It's an indication of just how much the mix itself IS the song that it's hard to initially listen past that, but I think the music of this piece is tighter and more driving than what I've heard from you before. I think the vocals are 'better' too. Perhaps because of the pace, they sound more confident.

    Most of us don't have the time (and a few of us don't have the skill/experience) but an in-forum remixing experiment would be fun one day. Just to hear other takes on stuff.

    To my ears you struggle a little sometimes when your melody goes up towards the end of a line. It feels that you're reaching and (in that small spot) lose confidence for a split second. That's probably a poor description, but there's an area of uncertainty in some notes which you're probably well aware of.

    What I liked most about this piece is that it sounds like a song. That sounds a bit facile, but there is a miracle that takes place somewhere between a bunch of lines and a vague tune to a place where it comes together and, like sculpture, appears as though it's ALWAYS been there. This is like that for me. Good effort.

  • @JohnnyGoodyear said:
    This is one of my favorite series of threads at the forum, because they offer a little space for practical and well-meant/constructive criticism.

    Yes, criticism is so useful, especially if it opens your ears and eyes to what others hear but you might be blind to. Other people who aren't caught up in your process can see both strengths and weaknesses more clearly. But personally I appreciate the criticism where it can help me improve.

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:
    To my ears you struggle a little sometimes when your melody goes up towards the end of a line. It feels that you're reaching and (in that small spot) lose confidence for a split second.

    That's probably right, when the notes reach up I have to concentrate on the pitch, and my brain can't (yet) do that and keep to the rhythm as well, that's almost certainly what's happened here, there's too much going on in those moments and I am overwhelmed. Like all this stuff with practice it gets better. It took me a few months to be able to play guitar and sing at the same time, but eventually it came, and I have no idea exactly how except that I just kept trying. But now I sing much better when I am also playing the guitar, especially because the rhythm comes automatically from the right hand. But this makes recording (where I am just singing, and not playing the guitar at the same time) more difficult.

  • Enjoyed all the previous entries, but feel I may bring down the tone slightly with my dancing donkey music:

  • HORSE GAS! I'm fond of donkeys (especially wild ones).

    So, does Roger Willier, the Building Inspector for the City of Pleasant Hill, TN know about this homage?

    What did you use here for the noise making? Like the groove, reminds me of a chase scene.

  • Somehow that piece feels like it should indeed be created by someone called monzo! It reminds me quite a bit of the Avalanches in that it has that trippy silliness to it, it's a fun bit of whimsy.

  • @JohnnyGoodyear said:
    So, does Roger Willier, the Building Inspector for the City of Pleasant Hill, TN know about this homage?

    What did you use here for the noise making? Like the groove, reminds me of a chase scene.

    Thankee - some of it originates from samples of a jam from a few years ago - so a fair bit of iMaschine triggering into GarageBand, with lashings of Thor and Nave, and a sprinkling of Samplr.

    Roger doesn't know about this one, so shhhh...

  • @JohnnyGoodyear said:
    An alternate history. Voice recorded with MicSwap into Auria. Music a variety of iOS bits and bobs.

    Very nice. Could be clearer.

  • edited March 2015

    OK, so my contribution for the month:

    Absolutely everything created in Gadget (then a quick bit of mastering in Audio Mastering) apart from:

    • vocal samples which are from freesound.org
    • the trumpet sample which is from the converse sample library

    This track was made with me trying a kind of "interesting Midi controllers playing Gadget" approach. So the percussion / hi hat rolls and fills are from using the 'remix' function in Yamaha Mobile Music Studio and pointing midi out to gadget. The piano leads are played with a TC Data patch i've been working on - again sending midi to Gadget.

    I've tried moderately hard to ensure there's some 'narrative' structure to the track, based on feedback last month - but you be the judge of that.

    Anything you like or don't like is really useful for me to know - so please let me know if you have time to listen!

  • edited March 2015

    Hi @monzo

    I like Icey Rodger Willier... I mean it's pretty mad... but I like it. Particularly the section around the 2 minute mark - it starts to kind of find itself and to me started to feel quite nice and 'old school hard core' in terms of the beat and sounds. Love the sound at 2.10 especially.

    Nice work.

    @Richardyot

    I must say I struggled a bit with the first minute or so of your song - it felt a bit strained and thin (if that makes any sense). Then as it starts to build and the sound gets a bit fuller I think it got a lot better. I particularly like the part around 2.30 where your vocals start to speed up - or certainly the energy and pace in the song starts to increase (and more instruments come in). I like a lot of the guitars as they build in the second half - particularly the psychedelic guitar swirls. Made me think of the Horrors and the Psychedelic Furs - so basically what @JohnnyGoodyear said re: The Jesus and Mary Chain. I thought the vocals got a lot better in the second half too.

    I agree about the composition of the song too - it's definitely a well constructed song - it's got everything there - i'd be really pleased with that if it were me. I guess it's the mixing and vocal side you can focus on - beefing up both ideally (IMO).

  • edited March 2015

    @Matt_Fletcher_2000 No idea about what you're upto midi/TC/in and out and didn't care a lick about that while listening which is a compliment.

    Good start and well put together, but really like the piano break/whatever at 2 mins. Woman's voice singing here would be great. I thought maybe through to 2.40 ish, but actually could go right through to the next 'I like who I am'. Great brass sample/phrase, punchy sound right there also.

    Love freesound. Odd for someone who is too concerned with words sometimes, but there's something of the fresh 'cut up' about things there. Not the usual same-old etc.

    Like how the brass spits back in at the end. Not crazy about the phazy thing at 4.30 that announces the wind down. Probably just a matter of the mix, but it felt like it was popped in there to get the job done and I think the piece itself is better than that (if you know what I mean). Nice how the voice comes back with 'I'm listening now', but I think this is a serious B+ which could be made even better by a better or more elegant resolution (not the words which are fine). Get a great vocal (easy stuff huh > :) in the middle of a woman scorned or forlorned and get it mixed for the album :)

    I like this. Forgive me rapid fire ramble, just typing while listening again, so purely instinctual responses etc.

  • @Matt_Fletcher_2000 I really like this, I haven't really got any criticism to make this time around, constructive or otherwise. This piece has a flow to it, a sense of being propelled forward that keeps me interested, and I like the dynamics and the evolving/changing beats.

    Another thing I really like about it is that it has a drum and bass feel, while being laid back at the same time, the wobble bass and break beats are less in your face than in many drum and bass tracks, and it's refreshing to hear. The sample is also really cool, it's intriguing and really helps to make the track.

  • @Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
    Hi monzo

    I like Icey Rodger Willier... I mean it's pretty mad... but I like it. Particularly the section around the 2 minute mark - it starts to kind of find itself and to me started to feel quite nice and 'old school hard core' in terms of the beat and sounds. Love the sound at 2.10 especially.

    Thanks Matt :) My wife says I take a good tune and deliberately mess it up with weird stuff, she's probably got a point. I like yours - sounds very clean and professional. I can never get my stuff to sound that clear - do you use any particular tools when mixing/producing a song?

  • @monzo: I think weird is good, and if you've got that in you it's an asset. What you need to do (IMO subjectively of course) is harness that weirdness and give it purpose. A tune, a hook, a narrative, all those things can be added into the mix and then the weirdness/quirkiness can really give your music an identity. You can be you without selling out, but I think some kind of framework/structure would help a lot. The weirdness could be juxtaposed with some compelling musical phrases and dynamics.

  • edited March 2015

    Thanks @johnnygoodyear, @richardyot, @monzo

    Really means a lot to get your feedback. So useful. Glad you mostly liked it. I'm flattered.

    Johnny, I agree about the singing. It would be good if I got some female vocals in there. I sort of considered it but ran out of time and energy a bit. Funny you don't like the end. I personally think it's one of the best bits and someon else I played it to said that (unprompted).

    Personally I think weak spots are:

    • I think I ended up taking too much of the sub bass out when rapidly mastering it in the car last night (don't ask! It wasn't moving BTW)

    • the track could maybe do with a bit more funk and groove throughout. The genre is supposed to be 'liquid drum and bass' which is more funky and jazzy and less aggressive than standard D&B (so I'm glad to hear what you said re this Richard).

    • the sample is interesting, but it's not that funky (see previous point)

    Anyway - onwards.

    Monzo, in response to your reflections on your music - I would simply say there's way too much in there. There's about 7 different pieces in there. About 3 of which I think have really great "legs". I'd pick one or two musical ideas - so maybe that great retro lo fi hardcore vibe that comes in about 2mins 30 and run just with that. Go a bit more minimal. But without losing your crazy style which is the golden nugget. Stripping back is bound to help it sound cleaner too.

    I used nothing at all other than gadget plus a bit of master track EQing, limiting and out of the box stereo widening in AudioMastering. However I did try and think hard about not having too many conflicting parts at the different frequencies. I spent quite a long time trying to get each of the synth patches (particularly the bass - which I think I spoiled a bit in the mastering) sounding just right together.

    Any more last minute submissions this month?

  • Thanks for the feedback @richardyot and @Matt_Fletcher_2000

    @richardyot said:
    You can be you without selling out, but I think some kind of framework/structure would help a lot.

    I think a lot of the lack of structure is down to laziness - usually no-one listens to my iPad stuff apart from a few followers on Soundcloud, so I tend to just whack a few bits and pieces together last thing in the evening as a purely selfish pleasure experience. It's good to have places like this forum to share them, so I'll make a bit more effort to put something more structured together. The new iPad will definitely help though (workman, tools etc...).

    @Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
    Monzo, in response to your reflections on your music - I would simply say there's way too much in there. There's about 7 different pieces in there. About 3 of which I think have really great "legs". I'd pick one or two musical ideas - so maybe that great retro lo fi hardcore vibe that comes in about 2mins 30 and run just with that.

    Thanks, yeah I do tend to put too many things into the mix. I went to art college and once a lecturer came over to look at what I was painting and said a similar thing - that most artists would have got about twenty paintings out of the ideas I'd put into the one he was looking at.

    Good feedback, and I'm going to create something a bit more structured for next month, with just the merest whiff of madness.

  • @Matt_Fletcher_2000, personally I don't thing that tune needs any female vocals, for me the existing sample works well enough, and I also like the ending - goes to show that these things are subjective. One of the drawbacks of asking for opinions is that you will get conflicting advice, and there is a real skill involved in sifting through feedback to find what's helpful and right for you, and what isn't. I guess you know what your vision and intentions are, so you have to stay true to that while still taking on board what people are saying if it's actually helpful to that aim.

    Two things I've learned from receiving feedback over the years (as part of my work, rather than as an amateur musician) is that 1) you don't need to act on every single criticism, and 2) always leave your ego and feelings out of the equation and try and evaluate the work on its own merits.

    And on that note it's very good to see threads like this where criticism can be given helpfully without seeing bruised egos. It's actually very valuable to hear an uncensored report of what people really think, and that this is being taken in the right spirit all around.

  • @monzo said:
    I tend to just whack a few bits and pieces together last thing in the evening as a purely selfish pleasure experience.

    Yes I do the same :)

    Still, I think it would be worth pushing it further, in all that madness there is something you want to say, and being weird is much better than being bland in my book, but you need to look beyond self-indulgence and also think of your listeners: entertain them, make them feel something.

  • @Matt_Fletcher_2000 - I also like the track as is! :)

    I don't have AbuDhabi or Bilbao but presumably that is how you get your samples into Gadget? Not used Gadget very much but it may be worth further investigation :)

  • @richardyot said:

    And on that note it's very good to see threads like this where criticism can be given helpfully without seeing bruised egos. It's actually very valuable to hear an uncensored report of what people really think, and that this is being taken in the right spirit all around.

    Amen.

  • @AlterEgo_UK said:
    As usual I have already posted several tracks from March in the Creations thread but here is one that I haven't yet!

    It is a doodle I did in Gadget when I had a few spare minutes :)

    It's a pretty good doodle :)

    You're obviously an excellent and very creative musician, you hop from style to style seemingly effortlessly and your tunes are full of invention. One potential criticism that might be leveled at you is that with all that genre-hopping you don't have a distinctive voice of your own, but actually I think it's quite forgivable because your music is interesting, even if it isn't rooted in one style. The only thing missing is vocals :)

  • @richardyot: Thanks for the compliment! :)

    I like many styles of music which is why I genre-hop for individual tracks (it also keeps me musically versatile) but I think if you were to look at all my SC tracks as a whole you would see that they would group themselves into relatively few genres e.g. Rock, Electronic, Progressive Rock, Pop, Folk, New Age/Ambient, Experimental. I even have quite a few with vocals but vocals is definitely not one of my strong points! :)

  • edited March 2015

    @AlterEgo_UK said:
    if you were to look at all my SC tracks as a whole you would see that they would group themselves into relatively few genres e.g. Rock, Electronic, Progressive Rock, Pop, Folk, New Age/Ambient, Experimental.

    Doesn't leave out much though, does it? ;)

    OK, so you don't do country music or reggae!

    (edit) I think it's cool though, no-one should have to live in a box, and you obviously love music.

  • He DOES do reggae-ish. Got a new sax player too: )

    http://forum.audiob.us/discussion/8163/jamaican-pipe-dream

  • @JohnnyGoodyear said:
    He DOES do reggae-ish. Got a new sax player too: )

    I'm still waiting for the country and western song though.

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