Audiobus: Use your music apps together.

What is Audiobus? — Audiobus is an award-winning music app for iPhone and iPad which lets you use your other music apps together. Chain effects on your favourite synth, run the output of apps or Audio Units into an app like GarageBand or Loopy, or select a different audio interface output for each app. Route MIDI between apps — drive a synth from a MIDI sequencer, or add an arpeggiator to your MIDI keyboard — or sync with your external MIDI gear. And control your entire setup from a MIDI controller.

Download on the App Store

Audiobus is the app that makes the rest of your setup better.

Apogee Symphony Desktop...Finally a Pro iOS interface?

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Comments

  • StrizbizStrizbiz

    @wingwizard said:

    @ipadbeatmaking said:

    @wingwizard said:
    What are people’s thoughts on this vs Iconnect audio 4? I own the latter but have always been curious, without knowing much about this stuff how much difference it makes in terms of sound quality etc and whether there’s a big difference between the two. I don’t care about multiple inputs, I just record on my own, one part at a time, maximum two.

    There’s a big difference. First of all when having high quality pres and converters all of a sudden the weakest link in your recording situation shows itself (performer, mic, environment) Which is actually a lot of times the recording environment you’re in. I remember having to build a freestanding vocal booth because my space wasn’t adequate for the higher tier stuff. Also the D/A (i.e monitoring/speakers/headphones etc) is gonna be much much better. You’ll hear new things in songs you’ve known your whole life when you play them (assuming you have got good monitors/headphones).

    It’s hard to describe just what kind of differences it makes, but for me it was like I had something in my ears (lint, wool?) and when I used the apogee symphony it was finally removed.

    It might be comparable to how you see HDTV vs standard def now. A good show is a always a good show, but all things being equal in content, hd is just better.

    Thank you. Hmm, fidelity. MYBE I’ll hav eto do some listening on YouTube if that’s possible as I know in the past I’ve found the sound on warmer equipment preferable to the ultra clean high end stuff in some cases - difficult to know. I suspect the price tag will be te defining factor in terms of where my money is best put and te quality of the results.

    I find the weakest link thing you describe to be true but I can easily hear it on low quality mics and equipment when it’s my environment etc, the hardness of walls. It’s this huge confusing tangle of factors in sound quality that makes it difficult to work out te value of stuff like pre amps as so many other things seem to have a greater effect to me... and if that translates to it being worth it financially for me, ie how good the iconnect is vs that vs the other audio stuff I could chuck money at. But then I am aghast at some digital pianos etc that non touch pianists think are practically the same as the one I own, and it might be the case for people more into the production side of things with pre amps.

    I’m not meaning to talk down the pre amp factor by te way just my experience and thoughts without being an expert on the hardware side for production equipment.

    Do you have any opinion on the quality of the pres on the iconnectAUDIO? I remember them being recommended by a lovely studio guy who occasionally came on here.

    Well it’s the preamps and the AD/DA converters that make a big difference. I have an Apogee Duet, which isn’t as high end as the symphony but still has great pres and converters and was a step up from what I had, which was an Avid Fast Track Duo, and man, it was like going from watching a movie in SD to watching it in 1080 HD, or even 3d, and exposed things in my mixes, like a little too much reverb or just where things sat in the mix level wise , and overall just helped my mixes sound a lot better not just in my studio but when I listened to them outside the studio. Imo the Symphony’s are at the top of the food chain, and $1400 isn’t bad for that kind of sound quality, I paid $2000 for a Motu 2408 like ten years ago which sounded great, but it wasn’t a class A interface.

  • wingwizardwingwizard
    edited March 2020

    @Strizbiz said:

    @wingwizard said:

    @ipadbeatmaking said:

    @wingwizard said:
    What are people’s thoughts on this vs Iconnect audio 4? I own the latter but have always been curious, without knowing much about this stuff how much difference it makes in terms of sound quality etc and whether there’s a big difference between the two. I don’t care about multiple inputs, I just record on my own, one part at a time, maximum two.

    There’s a big difference. First of all when having high quality pres and converters all of a sudden the weakest link in your recording situation shows itself (performer, mic, environment) Which is actually a lot of times the recording environment you’re in. I remember having to build a freestanding vocal booth because my space wasn’t adequate for the higher tier stuff. Also the D/A (i.e monitoring/speakers/headphones etc) is gonna be much much better. You’ll hear new things in songs you’ve known your whole life when you play them (assuming you have got good monitors/headphones).

    It’s hard to describe just what kind of differences it makes, but for me it was like I had something in my ears (lint, wool?) and when I used the apogee symphony it was finally removed.

    It might be comparable to how you see HDTV vs standard def now. A good show is a always a good show, but all things being equal in content, hd is just better.

    Thank you. Hmm, fidelity. MYBE I’ll hav eto do some listening on YouTube if that’s possible as I know in the past I’ve found the sound on warmer equipment preferable to the ultra clean high end stuff in some cases - difficult to know. I suspect the price tag will be te defining factor in terms of where my money is best put and te quality of the results.

    I find the weakest link thing you describe to be true but I can easily hear it on low quality mics and equipment when it’s my environment etc, the hardness of walls. It’s this huge confusing tangle of factors in sound quality that makes it difficult to work out te value of stuff like pre amps as so many other things seem to have a greater effect to me... and if that translates to it being worth it financially for me, ie how good the iconnect is vs that vs the other audio stuff I could chuck money at. But then I am aghast at some digital pianos etc that non touch pianists think are practically the same as the one I own, and it might be the case for people more into the production side of things with pre amps.

    I’m not meaning to talk down the pre amp factor by te way just my experience and thoughts without being an expert on the hardware side for production equipment.

    Do you have any opinion on the quality of the pres on the iconnectAUDIO? I remember them being recommended by a lovely studio guy who occasionally came on here.

    Well it’s the preamps and the AD/DA converters that make a big difference. I have an Apogee Duet, which isn’t as high end as the symphony but still has great pres and converters and was a step up from what I had, which was an Avid Fast Track Duo, and man, it was like going from watching a movie in SD to watching it in 1080 HD, or even 3d, and exposed things in my mixes, like a little too much reverb or just where things sat in the mix level wise , and overall just helped my mixes sound a lot better not just in my studio but when I listened to them outside the studio. Imo the Symphony’s are at the top of the food chain, and $1400 isn’t bad for that kind of sound quality, I paid $2000 for a Motu 2408 like ten years ago which sounded great, but it wasn’t a class A interface.

    Wow thanks, the comment aboit exposing stuff like a little too much reverb etc for some reason suddenly made me understand the effect. I can really imagine how things sound ok but when te clarity is increased suddenly te separation and distinction of stuff like reverb and the instruments throws into relief any mixing or production that isn’t seamless. I’m really sensitive to that its like when you cringe seeing photoshop effects or cgi that should be there but not be there.

    Do you have any experience with the icc9nnect audio4 converters preamps etc? Sorry if I’m banging on aboit this, I’m very curious how they stack up next to apogees and then in the overall picture for instance compared to your experience with other hardware, previous stuff — I wonder where the icconnect would sit in the sd hd 4k 3d analogy? I don’t doubt theyre worth the money I’m just trying to weigh up if on my budget, there is enough of a difference between an iconnectaudio4 and an apogee to justify an extra grand (I have had many guitars worth in excess of that, some were amazing, but then my favourite is half the price).

    I wonder what your and others’ take on the couple of comments here are if you get the time of course:

    http://forums.iconnectivity.com/index.php?p=/discussion/1103/apogee-one-or-iconnectaudio4

  • ipadbeatmakingipadbeatmaking

    @wingwizard said:

    @Strizbiz said:

    @wingwizard said:

    @ipadbeatmaking said:

    @wingwizard said:
    What are people’s thoughts on this vs Iconnect audio 4? I own the latter but have always been curious, without knowing much about this stuff how much difference it makes in terms of sound quality etc and whether there’s a big difference between the two. I don’t care about multiple inputs, I just record on my own, one part at a time, maximum two.

    There’s a big difference. First of all when having high quality pres and converters all of a sudden the weakest link in your recording situation shows itself (performer, mic, environment) Which is actually a lot of times the recording environment you’re in. I remember having to build a freestanding vocal booth because my space wasn’t adequate for the higher tier stuff. Also the D/A (i.e monitoring/speakers/headphones etc) is gonna be much much better. You’ll hear new things in songs you’ve known your whole life when you play them (assuming you have got good monitors/headphones).

    It’s hard to describe just what kind of differences it makes, but for me it was like I had something in my ears (lint, wool?) and when I used the apogee symphony it was finally removed.

    It might be comparable to how you see HDTV vs standard def now. A good show is a always a good show, but all things being equal in content, hd is just better.

    Thank you. Hmm, fidelity. MYBE I’ll hav eto do some listening on YouTube if that’s possible as I know in the past I’ve found the sound on warmer equipment preferable to the ultra clean high end stuff in some cases - difficult to know. I suspect the price tag will be te defining factor in terms of where my money is best put and te quality of the results.

    I find the weakest link thing you describe to be true but I can easily hear it on low quality mics and equipment when it’s my environment etc, the hardness of walls. It’s this huge confusing tangle of factors in sound quality that makes it difficult to work out te value of stuff like pre amps as so many other things seem to have a greater effect to me... and if that translates to it being worth it financially for me, ie how good the iconnect is vs that vs the other audio stuff I could chuck money at. But then I am aghast at some digital pianos etc that non touch pianists think are practically the same as the one I own, and it might be the case for people more into the production side of things with pre amps.

    I’m not meaning to talk down the pre amp factor by te way just my experience and thoughts without being an expert on the hardware side for production equipment.

    Do you have any opinion on the quality of the pres on the iconnectAUDIO? I remember them being recommended by a lovely studio guy who occasionally came on here.

    Well it’s the preamps and the AD/DA converters that make a big difference. I have an Apogee Duet, which isn’t as high end as the symphony but still has great pres and converters and was a step up from what I had, which was an Avid Fast Track Duo, and man, it was like going from watching a movie in SD to watching it in 1080 HD, or even 3d, and exposed things in my mixes, like a little too much reverb or just where things sat in the mix level wise , and overall just helped my mixes sound a lot better not just in my studio but when I listened to them outside the studio. Imo the Symphony’s are at the top of the food chain, and $1400 isn’t bad for that kind of sound quality, I paid $2000 for a Motu 2408 like ten years ago which sounded great, but it wasn’t a class A interface.

    Wow thanks, the comment aboit exposing stuff like a little too much reverb etc for some reason suddenly made me understand the effect. I can really imagine how things sound ok but when te clarity is increased suddenly te separation and distinction of stuff like reverb and the instruments throws into relief any mixing or production that isn’t seamless. I’m really sensitive to that its like when you cringe seeing photoshop effects or cgi that should be there but not be there.

    Do you have any experience with the icc9nnect audio4 converters preamps etc? Sorry if I’m banging on aboit this, I’m very curious how they stack up next to apogees and then in the overall picture for instance compared to your experience with other hardware, previous stuff — I wonder where the icconnect would sit in the sd hd 4k 3d analogy? I don’t doubt theyre worth the money I’m just trying to weigh up if on my budget, there is enough of a difference between an iconnectaudio4 and an apogee to justify an extra grand (I have had many guitars worth in excess of that, some were amazing, but then my favourite is half the price).

    I wonder what your and others’ take on the couple of comments here are if you get the time of course:

    http://forums.iconnectivity.com/index.php?p=/discussion/1103/apogee-one-or-iconnectaudio4

    I have not heard the iconnect at all but I’m 99.9% sure it’s going to be a night and day difference. Preamps, converters etc. This apogee symphony level is world class. The iconnect might be great for the price but you’d be essentially comparing it to the tech of a 4-5k interface, which is totally unfair to the iconnect. A more appropriate comparison would be the one, or maybe the duet at best.

  • cloudswimmercloudswimmer

    @ipadbeatmaking said:

    @cloudswimmer said:

    @ipadbeatmaking said:
    I’ve been searching high and low for the perfect pro interface and this looks to be the one!!! I was a long time Symphony I/O user in the desktop studio world and always wished iOS could get the same quality. Looks like that day has arrived!!!

    Price: $1299

    Do you know if there is going to be an IOS app for this? I’ve had the Apogee Duet since 2016 and have never been real happy with it for IOS use. So I’ve been kinda shopping interfaces too recently to replace it. I was thinking maybe the RME UFX+ at $2800.00 since I really dig their Babyface Pro which I have on my other iPad .. so $1299.00 is a bargain lol.

    They’ve been tightlipped about the depth of iOS compatibility so far. If I had to guess I’d speculate that there will be some version of maestro or whatever it’ll be called this time to control the levels. The bundled Plugin(s) (for desktop) will not be on iOS at launch, and maybe never. The person I spoke with wasn’t even enlightened on the fact that AUv3 exists....(scary right?)

    They say that because the alloy (preamp sound change) feature is a mix between hardware circuitry and firmware (software) that it should work on iOS no problem.

    Obviously as iOS users we are 3rd to 4th in line of priority. First would be logic. Then Mac. Then PC. Then us.

    Well I guess I’ll hang tight here and keep a watch on the new baby Symphony. If it gets a new iPad App that gives it some eq and groups like RME Patch Mix I’m in. If not probably will get either the new Babyface Pro FS or the UFX+. In the mean time I just ordered the PreSonus Studiolive 32r to finally get all the hardware synths plugged in at one time .. that will plug in to the Apogee Duet for now. Keep us posted on anything new you hear about. 👍🎹

  • wingwizardwingwizard

    @ipadbeatmaking said:

    @wingwizard said:

    @Strizbiz said:

    @wingwizard said:

    @ipadbeatmaking said:

    @wingwizard said:
    What are people’s thoughts on this vs Iconnect audio 4? I own the latter but have always been curious, without knowing much about this stuff how much difference it makes in terms of sound quality etc and whether there’s a big difference between the two. I don’t care about multiple inputs, I just record on my own, one part at a time, maximum two.

    There’s a big difference. First of all when having high quality pres and converters all of a sudden the weakest link in your recording situation shows itself (performer, mic, environment) Which is actually a lot of times the recording environment you’re in. I remember having to build a freestanding vocal booth because my space wasn’t adequate for the higher tier stuff. Also the D/A (i.e monitoring/speakers/headphones etc) is gonna be much much better. You’ll hear new things in songs you’ve known your whole life when you play them (assuming you have got good monitors/headphones).

    It’s hard to describe just what kind of differences it makes, but for me it was like I had something in my ears (lint, wool?) and when I used the apogee symphony it was finally removed.

    It might be comparable to how you see HDTV vs standard def now. A good show is a always a good show, but all things being equal in content, hd is just better.

    Thank you. Hmm, fidelity. MYBE I’ll hav eto do some listening on YouTube if that’s possible as I know in the past I’ve found the sound on warmer equipment preferable to the ultra clean high end stuff in some cases - difficult to know. I suspect the price tag will be te defining factor in terms of where my money is best put and te quality of the results.

    I find the weakest link thing you describe to be true but I can easily hear it on low quality mics and equipment when it’s my environment etc, the hardness of walls. It’s this huge confusing tangle of factors in sound quality that makes it difficult to work out te value of stuff like pre amps as so many other things seem to have a greater effect to me... and if that translates to it being worth it financially for me, ie how good the iconnect is vs that vs the other audio stuff I could chuck money at. But then I am aghast at some digital pianos etc that non touch pianists think are practically the same as the one I own, and it might be the case for people more into the production side of things with pre amps.

    I’m not meaning to talk down the pre amp factor by te way just my experience and thoughts without being an expert on the hardware side for production equipment.

    Do you have any opinion on the quality of the pres on the iconnectAUDIO? I remember them being recommended by a lovely studio guy who occasionally came on here.

    Well it’s the preamps and the AD/DA converters that make a big difference. I have an Apogee Duet, which isn’t as high end as the symphony but still has great pres and converters and was a step up from what I had, which was an Avid Fast Track Duo, and man, it was like going from watching a movie in SD to watching it in 1080 HD, or even 3d, and exposed things in my mixes, like a little too much reverb or just where things sat in the mix level wise , and overall just helped my mixes sound a lot better not just in my studio but when I listened to them outside the studio. Imo the Symphony’s are at the top of the food chain, and $1400 isn’t bad for that kind of sound quality, I paid $2000 for a Motu 2408 like ten years ago which sounded great, but it wasn’t a class A interface.

    Wow thanks, the comment aboit exposing stuff like a little too much reverb etc for some reason suddenly made me understand the effect. I can really imagine how things sound ok but when te clarity is increased suddenly te separation and distinction of stuff like reverb and the instruments throws into relief any mixing or production that isn’t seamless. I’m really sensitive to that its like when you cringe seeing photoshop effects or cgi that should be there but not be there.

    Do you have any experience with the icc9nnect audio4 converters preamps etc? Sorry if I’m banging on aboit this, I’m very curious how they stack up next to apogees and then in the overall picture for instance compared to your experience with other hardware, previous stuff — I wonder where the icconnect would sit in the sd hd 4k 3d analogy? I don’t doubt theyre worth the money I’m just trying to weigh up if on my budget, there is enough of a difference between an iconnectaudio4 and an apogee to justify an extra grand (I have had many guitars worth in excess of that, some were amazing, but then my favourite is half the price).

    I wonder what your and others’ take on the couple of comments here are if you get the time of course:

    http://forums.iconnectivity.com/index.php?p=/discussion/1103/apogee-one-or-iconnectaudio4

    I have not heard the iconnect at all but I’m 99.9% sure it’s going to be a night and day difference. Preamps, converters etc. This apogee symphony level is world class. The iconnect might be great for the price but you’d be essentially comparing it to the tech of a 4-5k interface, which is totally unfair to the iconnect. A more appropriate comparison would be the one, or maybe the duet at best.

    Thank you, i hadnt realised the price of the symphony Or quite how high end it is, so £1400 or whatever the desktop is represents a bargain. Given that, I think iconnect is probably right for me, if it’s compares favorably with apogees more mid range stuff, given what I do and my resources. Thanks again to you and others for helping me with this.

  • Samflash3Samflash3

    @kinkujin said:

    @Samflash3 said:

    @ipadbeatmaking said:

    @Samflash3 said:
    Ehhhhh? Am I the only one looking at the price?

    I spent nearly $5000 on my symphony I/O, with mic pres back in the day. And I did not need 8x8 but it was the only way in. This price, is a steal for the quality on offer, trust me.

    Dude, $200 is a steal for me for high-end interfaces. I might as well get a Macbook at that price.

    (I'm only saying this because I'm a college student lol)

    Your new 2012 mini will have a FireWire port and you can get a Duet Firewire and you’d be set. If you need an interface, that is.

    Did not know this. Thanks for the tip.

  • kinkujinkinkujin

    @Samflash3 said:

    @kinkujin said:

    @Samflash3 said:

    @ipadbeatmaking said:

    @Samflash3 said:
    Ehhhhh? Am I the only one looking at the price?

    I spent nearly $5000 on my symphony I/O, with mic pres back in the day. And I did not need 8x8 but it was the only way in. This price, is a steal for the quality on offer, trust me.

    Dude, $200 is a steal for me for high-end interfaces. I might as well get a Macbook at that price.

    (I'm only saying this because I'm a college student lol)

    Your new 2012 mini will have a FireWire port and you can get a Duet Firewire and you’d be set. If you need an interface, that is.

    Did not know this. Thanks for the tip.

    No worries. I would, as said above, watch out that your software doesn't need a newer OS on your mac than the Duet is supported for (for instance) ... those can knock your firewire device out of service.

  • nerVenerVe

    @Telefunky said:

    @nerVe said:
    What makes it compatible with the ipad pro vs other ipads?is it just that is has the usbC connector or is it capable or higher USB3.0 speeds? And how much gain on the two preamps? +72dB ? What’s the dynamic range of the converters?

    It's USB-2 in USB-c shape. USB-3 speed doesn't matter for digital audio. ;)
    Dynamic range of quality converters always exceeds the noise floor of preamps.
    Today your main concern is electronic pollution of the environment.
    (I remember the light dimmer of previous neighbours leaking into my preamps, or the transformers of a specific AD/DA converter inducing magnetic hum into dynamic mics in 8 ft distance)

    Protocol speed will have a direct result on latency, which is paramount for some musicians.
    How is EMI addressed in this unit vs. say, the the low latency Thunderbolt Element Units? and still need the preamp gain to compare?

  • ipadbeatmakingipadbeatmaking

    @Samflash3 said:

    @ipadbeatmaking said:

    @Samflash3 said:
    Ehhhhh? Am I the only one looking at the price?

    I spent nearly $5000 on my symphony I/O, with mic pres back in the day. And I did not need 8x8 but it was the only way in. This price, is a steal for the quality on offer, trust me.

    I love you @ipadbeatmaking but I'll have to agree to disagree. Dude, I can make a cheaper, lower quality one but is more iOS friendly using already available parts.

    Matter of fact, challenge accepted. Gonna modify my MIDI controller project into this.

    Lemme know what you come up with, I’m definitively a customer!

  • TelefunkyTelefunky
    edited March 2020

    @wingwizard said:
    ... i hadnt realised the price of the symphony Or quite how high end it is, so £1400 or whatever the desktop is represents a bargain. Given that, I think iconnect is probably right for me, if it’s compares favorably with apogees more mid range stuff, given what I do and my resources. Thanks again to you and others for helping me with this.

    Atm nobody but Apogee knows 'how high-end' the Symphony Desktop really is.
    The main feature defining the quality of the former 19" version is clock design and stability - that's what delivers superior clarity on mixes and extremely low distortion.
    But the designs are totally different.

    An standard interface preamp is always limited by area, so you either use highly integrated circuits (preamp on a chip, most common are TI and THAT types), single transistors or standard opamps.
    The preamp performance depends a lot on clean supply power.
    You never find high quality transformers (a significant source of real 'preamp color') on interfaces, because these devices are expensive in parts and in work.
    (they have to be mounted and soldered manually)

    Both UAD and Apogee compensate this by modelling software.
    For UAD there exist A/B productions (modelled versus real preamp) which seem to work quite well in contemporary mixes...
    But I wouldn't hold my breath on it in more exposed sources in less filled mixes.
    (guessing from my Telefunken V676a preamp where the load of the output transformer alone has a huge influence on the result)

    The V676 is a 100% adaption of the famous V76 tube preamp for semiconductors and the only (tiny) difference in sound is related to the V76's very special input transformer (as quoted by owners of both versions).

    The Golden Age NEVE clones only became 'fully comparable' after GA added Carnhill transformers as used by NEVE themselves.

    Another interesting example are the Focusrite ISA preamps, based on the most common and cheapo 5532 opamps, but in an unusual transformer coupled design, famous for their low noise and highly transparent output.

    An iConnectAudio4+ definitely is a lower league, starting with internal power regulation (a boiler plate) and noise and it's analog line channels are a bit blurry imho.
    But... that's far from a show stopper and I use this interface a lot.
    For microphone/instrument recordings I switch to the Audient ID22 if I want to capture all the details of a performance and the character of certain microphones...
    As I would do for critical mixes because it reveals things that remain hidden in the iCA4+.

    That does not imply the iCA4+ is unusable, but it's the typical 15-20% improvement that will cost you 200% up.
    I'd estimate the very same for RME, Apogee, Antelope, Metric Halo etc if compared to any mid priced interface.
    (btw the ID22 reminded me a lot on examples I knew from Metric Halo and imho Audient has an incredible price/performance ratio)

    ps: forget any subtle differences mentioned, in case you use any budget condensor mic in the sub $500 range. The great channels will only reveal the mic's flaws in greater detail.
    And a Focusrite Scarlet won't stop you from delivering a great mix.
    (it's less fun and you'll only hear the result after release... but the result remains the same) ;)

  • ipadbeatmakingipadbeatmaking

    @Telefunky I don’t wanna quote your whole post and clog the thread but that was a great post! Very informed!

  • TelefunkyTelefunky
    edited March 2020

    Yeah, I was surprised myself about the length of the blurb...
    It just sums up a few experiences over the years.
    At least I learned that you do NOT always need the best gear - it's more important what you make of whatever is available.

  • nerVenerVe

    @Telefunky said:

    @wingwizard said:
    ... i hadnt realised the price of the symphony Or quite how high end it is, so £1400 or whatever the desktop is represents a bargain. Given that, I think iconnect is probably right for me, if it’s compares favorably with apogees more mid range stuff, given what I do and my resources. Thanks again to you and others for helping me with this.

    Atm nobody but Apogee knows 'how high-end' the Symphony Desktop really is.
    The main feature defining the quality of the former 19" version is clock design and stability - that's what delivers superior clarity on mixes and extremely low distortion.
    But the designs are totally different.

    An standard interface preamp is always limited by area, so you either use highly integrated circuits (preamp on a chip, most common are TI and THAT types), single transistors or standard opamps.
    The preamp performance depends a lot on clean supply power.
    You never find high quality transformers (a significant source of real 'preamp color') on interfaces, because these devices are expensive in parts and in work.
    (they have to be mounted and soldered manually)

    Both UAD and Apogee compensate this by modelling software.
    For UAD there exist A/B productions (modelled versus real preamp) which seem to work quite well in contemporary mixes...
    But I wouldn't hold my breath on it in more exposed sources in less filled mixes.
    (guessing from my Telefunken V676a preamp where the load of the output transformer alone has a huge influence on the result)

    The V676 is a 100% adaption of the famous V76 tube preamp for semiconductors and the only (tiny) difference in sound is related to the V76's very special input transformer (as quoted by owners of both versions).

    The Golden Age NEVE clones only became 'fully comparable' after GA added Carnhill transformers as used by NEVE themselves.

    Another interesting example are the Focusrite ISA preamps, based on the most common and cheapo 5532 opamps, but in an unusual transformer coupled design, famous for their low noise and highly transparent output.

    An iConnectAudio4+ definitely is a lower league, starting with internal power regulation (a boiler plate) and noise and it's analog line channels are a bit blurry imho.
    But... that's far from a show stopper and I use this interface a lot.
    For microphone/instrument recordings I switch to the Audient ID22 if I want to capture all the details of a performance and the character of certain microphones...
    As I would do for critical mixes because it reveals things that remain hidden in the iCA4+.

    That does not imply the iCA4+ is unusable, but it's the typical 15-20% improvement that will cost you 200% up.
    I'd estimate the very same for RME, Apogee, Antelope, Metric Halo etc if compared to any mid priced interface.
    (btw the ID22 reminded me a lot on examples I knew from Metric Halo and imho Audient has an incredible price/performance ratio)

    ps: forget any subtle differences mentioned, in case you use any budget condensor mic in the sub $500 range. The great channels will only reveal the mic's flaws in greater detail.
    And a Focusrite Scarlet won't stop you from delivering a great mix.
    (it's less fun and you'll only hear the result after release... but the result remains the same) ;)

    I agree with all of this...great post.

  • ipadbeatmakingipadbeatmaking

    Here’s a quick video of my prior experiences with the apogee symphony line and my thoughts on this for iOS users

  • nerVenerVe

    Great video! +75dB of gain... @ipadbeatmaking

    Hmmm...

  • ipadbeatmakingipadbeatmaking
    edited March 2020

    @nerVe said:
    Great video!

    Thanks! 🙏

    +75dB of gain... @ipadbeatmaking

    Hmmm...

    Yes. That’s a lot of gain Indeed!

  • wingwizardwingwizard
    edited March 2020

    @Telefunky said:

    @wingwizard said:
    ... i hadnt realised the price of the symphony Or quite how high end it is, so £1400 or whatever the desktop is represents a bargain. Given that, I think iconnect is probably right for me, if it’s compares favorably with apogees more mid range stuff, given what I do and my resources. Thanks again to you and others for helping me with this.

    Atm nobody but Apogee knows 'how high-end' the Symphony Desktop really is.
    The main feature defining the quality of the former 19" version is clock design and stability - that's what delivers superior clarity on mixes and extremely low distortion.
    But the designs are totally different.

    An standard interface preamp is always limited by area, so you either use highly integrated circuits (preamp on a chip, most common are TI and THAT types), single transistors or standard opamps.
    The preamp performance depends a lot on clean supply power.
    You never find high quality transformers (a significant source of real 'preamp color') on interfaces, because these devices are expensive in parts and in work.
    (they have to be mounted and soldered manually)

    Both UAD and Apogee compensate this by modelling software.
    For UAD there exist A/B productions (modelled versus real preamp) which seem to work quite well in contemporary mixes...
    But I wouldn't hold my breath on it in more exposed sources in less filled mixes.
    (guessing from my Telefunken V676a preamp where the load of the output transformer alone has a huge influence on the result)

    The V676 is a 100% adaption of the famous V76 tube preamp for semiconductors and the only (tiny) difference in sound is related to the V76's very special input transformer (as quoted by owners of both versions).

    The Golden Age NEVE clones only became 'fully comparable' after GA added Carnhill transformers as used by NEVE themselves.

    Another interesting example are the Focusrite ISA preamps, based on the most common and cheapo 5532 opamps, but in an unusual transformer coupled design, famous for their low noise and highly transparent output.

    An iConnectAudio4+ definitely is a lower league, starting with internal power regulation (a boiler plate) and noise and it's analog line channels are a bit blurry imho.
    But... that's far from a show stopper and I use this interface a lot.
    For microphone/instrument recordings I switch to the Audient ID22 if I want to capture all the details of a performance and the character of certain microphones...
    As I would do for critical mixes because it reveals things that remain hidden in the iCA4+.

    That does not imply the iCA4+ is unusable, but it's the typical 15-20% improvement that will cost you 200% up.
    I'd estimate the very same for RME, Apogee, Antelope, Metric Halo etc if compared to any mid priced interface.
    (btw the ID22 reminded me a lot on examples I knew from Metric Halo and imho Audient has an incredible price/performance ratio)

    ps: forget any subtle differences mentioned, in case you use any budget condensor mic in the sub $500 range. The great channels will only reveal the mic's flaws in greater detail.
    And a Focusrite Scarlet won't stop you from delivering a great mix.
    (it's less fun and you'll only hear the result after release... but the result remains the same) ;)

    Thank you for this. The last paragraph is probably most relevant to me :D. I’m most into songwriting, composition, singing, and musician-stuff; that’s my part in music. For me, although I am really obsessed with aesthetics, mixing and production is more of kind of 50% aesthetic process and 50% donkeywork/necessary-evil - which of course, is certainly not the case for many others, but that’s where my passions and whatever skills I might have lie. I do enjoy tinkering and love sound design but I think I was worrying too much about this area and it should probably represent quite a small sector of my creative investment, with the percentages being taken up elsewhere. It’s just every now and then probably through reading stuff by people who are enthusiasts or professionals in this specific area, I start thinking oh no, maybe I need this or that. Having read the comments and your own I now feel that with at least decent equipment about 99.99% minimum of my impression of a track is the performance and songwriting. In short, I’m not a producer, I just have to produce the stuff I write and record and can do so with some f the sensibilities of musicianship transferred to it, without ever really enjoying the process or seeing it as an end in itself. It’s more as something to keep out of the way so the song can come through as completely as possible for me. Anyway, rambling but I appreciate your post, was interesting and showed how differently people are invested in this area compared to me.

  • TelefunkyTelefunky
    edited March 2020

    It's always a good idea to focus on your part and the performance - gear is nothing but tools. Of course it's not easy to choose today - under constant marketing crossfire and confusing specs.
    If you check classic gear from the pre-digital years, you'll hardly find anything that can compete in numbers with today's budget devices. The dB unit is a tricky thing, because values are measured relative to some fixed point of the scale.

    If a mic preamp's noise figure reads -100dB, this seems great... until you discover that the measurement was based on an input level of 1000 mV. Now go find a mic with an output as strong as a full hit electric bass ;)
    (this kind of specs is a very common approach)

    75 dB of gain are a cool feature for low output dynamic mics (Shure SM7b, MD441) or vintage ribbon mics. But it definitely will capture all the details of the recording room, too... and it's the gain at which feedback between a dynamic mic and an open pair of cans may set in...

    If you track in 24-bit you can easily add digital gain to the raw track without degrading sound.
    Digital gain is effectively a bit shift towards the higher end of the data word.
    Adding 6dB is exactly the same as shifting the recorded bits for 1 position.
    Usually 3 to 4 positions (equivalent to 18-24 dB) is ok without making the noise floor too obvious.
    The process is sometimes called 'Amplify'.
    If your DAW offers only 6 or 12 dB as maximum, just repeat it the desired amount of times.

  • wingwizardwingwizard
    edited March 2020

    @Telefunky said:
    It's always a good idea to focus on your part and the performance - gear is nothing but tools. Of course it's not easy to choose today - under constant marketing crossfire and confusing specs.
    If you check classic gear from the pre-digital years, you'll hardly find anything that can compete in numbers with today's budget devices. The dB unit is a tricky thing, because values are measured relative to some fixed point of the scale.

    If a mic preamp's noise figure reads -100dB, this seems great... until you discover that the measurement was based on an input level of 1000 mV. Now go find a mic with an output as strong as a full hit electric bass ;)
    (this kind of specs is a very common approach)

    75 dB of gain are a cool feature for low output dynamic mics (Shure SM7b, MD441) or vintage ribbon mics. But it definitely will capture all the details of the recording room, too... and it's the gain at which feedback between a dynamic mic and an open pair of cans may set in...

    If you track in 24-bit you can easily add digital gain to the raw track without degrading sound.
    Digital gain is effectively a bit shift towards the higher end of the data word.
    Adding 6dB is exactly the same as shifting the recorded bits for 1 position.
    Usually 3 to 4 positions (equivalent to 18-24 dB) is ok without making the noise floor too obvious.
    The process is sometimes called 'Amplify'.
    If your DAW offers only 6 or 12 dB as maximum, just repeat it the desired amount of times.

    Yeah, I know and absolutely agree, it’s just The internet gives us all a lot of information and on the odd occasion you are party to conversation between people very much into a niche of some field, due to an overlap with the parts of that field in which you are involved more heavily, and the fact it’s just an area of a larger game becomes clouded (when everyone in the conversation is really into that thing, the larger context and the place in it that thing occupies is absent). I think this is true of everything actually. Hearing headphone guys talking about headphones, guitar guys aboit guitars (as one myself)... not to denigrate those people (including myself) or their take on those areas at all, just that everything has a context and its only when you’re very much into that specific thing, the margins become amplified. I would pay what to other people would seem crazy money for what I’m sure to them is a very small difference, when it comes to certain instruments characteristics, because I’m deeply into those voices/tonal increments and I recognise and appreciate differences in them that I know from experience most people whose primary involvement is elsewhere, don’t, just as I don’t hold as much value or appreciate the things to anywhere near the same degree they do for my personal stuff. Actually, it doesn’t have to be as distinct a difference as someone who is mainly say a piano or guitar player and someone who s mainly a producer - I know that most guitarists don’t appreciate or value what I do and vice versa because I’m more of a touch player and into material qualities, whereas a lot of musicians - better ones than me in many ways I should add - think in different terms.

    I don’t like grand pianos for instance and go for a warm inexpensive upright every time. Just dislike the sound of the former.

    Sorry for the tangent, too much free time today lol.

  • Sam23Sam23

    „ deliverable in about one week“

    appointed on August 22, 2020

  • ipadbeatmakingipadbeatmaking

    @Sam23 said:
    „ deliverable in about one week“

    appointed on August 22, 2020

    Wait, what?!

  • GoozoonGoozoon

    and i was thinking Steinberg UR22C is pricey

  • ipadbeatmakingipadbeatmaking

    @Goozoon said:
    and i was thinking Steinberg UR22C is pricey

    This beverage costs more than twice as much 😂

  • Sam23Sam23

    „
    ....the article you ordered has unfortunately not yet been delivered to us, contrary to the manufacturer's specifications. On our request, when this delivery will take place, we have now given the manufacturer the following delivery date,,,“

  • Sam23Sam23

    @ipadbeatmaking said:

    @Goozoon said:
    and i was thinking Steinberg UR22C is pricey

    This beverage costs more than twice as much 😂

    after i bought the  iPhone 12 Pro Max at 1.490. my office colleague also said "quite expensive", and got into his BMW SUV, which cost well over 40.000. (!!!) Euros-he drives the short distance of 15 minutes to the office just like me-and otherwise hardly any more with it-my little Audi at 18. 000. euro does that as well - so define "expensive and/or worth" in relation to e.g. the iPhone, which compared to the car does NOT stand around for 23 hours/day, but the smartphone is used many hours a day.

  • ipadbeatmakingipadbeatmaking

    @Sam23 said:
    „
    ....the article you ordered has unfortunately not yet been delivered to us, contrary to the manufacturer's specifications. On our request, when this delivery will take place, we have now given the manufacturer the following delivery date,,,“

    Wait what? 😂 this saga has me confused. Is there a delivery date or no? If so when is it? I’m gonna have to get on the phone with Santa Monica (apogee headquarters)

  • justice86justice86

    @Sam23 said:
    „
    ....the article you ordered has unfortunately not yet been delivered to us, contrary to the manufacturer's specifications. On our request, when this delivery will take place, we have now given the manufacturer the following delivery date,,,“

    ...* the manufacturer provided us with the following delivery date: 16.10.20

  • ashhashh

    @Samflash3 said:
    Ehhhhh? Am I the only one looking at the price?

    Nope. Ridiculous price.

  • ltf3ltf3

    For half the price checkout the Arturia Audio Fuse mk2. More connectivity and it’ll leave you a healthy chunk to get a really good mic. Which I believe is more significant if acoustic recoding is your goal. It’s been my overall favorite unit these past er... 20 years.

    The Arturia pres are fine compared to others in similar units I used from Steinberg, MOTU, Universal Audio, Audient... and even Apogee. I had their Apogee One. It was good but not crazy better than anything else I mentioned. Mic pre design is a well understood science after a century of work!

    Now, what Mic you plug into it, where you situate it and what/who you record... there’s the magic.

  • Sam23Sam23

    not mine

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