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Nanostudio 2 Problems -- Anybody else?

2

Comments

  • edited August 2019

    I have a method that can replicate the issue every time I think.

    I create a new project and call it test.
    I add a slate track into an empty project and load the factory 808 preset
    I add one bar of random hits.
    I have the Audio Damage fx bundle and add one of each to the audio fx in this slate track
    (EOS2 + Dubstation + Grind + QuatroMod). I leave each one in its default config.

    Now I play this track. Instant industrial by the way. Save.

    No, whilst still playing I save as Test 2.

    Now, I load test again. Then play. Then test 2. I keep repeating this 4 or 5 times.

    I now do another save as and create Test 3. NS2 hangs.

    At some point whilst switching between test and test 2 I notice the blue loading spinner in the top right of the window starts spinning in the load screen and sometimes the list is truncated.

    From this point on the test files create all sorts of trouble with file operations.

    If I quit NS2 by swiping up from the app switcher, relaunch NS2 then save as again, NS2 hangs.

    If I quit NS2 as above then clear memory (hold down power then home button for 10 secs) the same thing happens.

    If I restart my iPad and then relaunch NS2 it will reload the last project (test 2). I hit save as and NS2 hangs whilst saving.

    I then deleted all the test projects, restarted iPad and tried again and got the same results.

    It is however possible that a previously corrupted project caused this to happen as The issue persists across reboots. It may be dependent on whatever project autoloads.

    If I then delete the AD plugins from my iPad and relaunch everything works fine again and saving as is instant.

    I hope somebody can reproduce this. I think the key is to switch between projects multiple times — maybe also without stopping playback — (I often have two versions of a project on the go and switch between them to compare arrangements).

  • Do you try removing Grind and retesting? If not, remove Dubstation also, test again. If not remove QuatroMod, test again. EOS2 should be okay to leave, but if you've gotten this far with the same problems, remove it, test again.
    Same thing happens in BM3 too.

  • edited August 2019

    Read you other posts on page 1, Kronecker seems to have problems, its not as reliable as his other apps. Maybe due to the host-syncing emitters thing. And if you turn on the arps in the other apps. Same thing happens in BM3 too.

  • @StudioES said:
    Do you try removing Grind and retesting? If not, remove Dubstation also, test again. If not remove QuatroMod, test again. EOS2 should be okay to leave, but if you've gotten this far with the same problems, remove it, test again.
    Same thing happens in BM3 too.

    Once you get the problem it’s hard to do anything like removing a plugin as NS2 won’t save the file.

    The only option is to delete the AD apps from the iPad. I deleted Grind and NS2 still locks up.

    But at this stage I’m not interested in working around the issue... I’m trying to get to a point whereby the issue is reproducible so that the devs can hopefully be able to track down the bugs. If nobody else can reproduce then it’s probably because the bug persists across reboots and is affecting other projects. If somebody else can reproduce the issue following the steps above I might actually be getting somewhere.

  • edited August 2019

    Air 2; iOS 12.4; NS2.0.1?

  • @StudioES said:
    Air 2; iOS 12.4; NS2.0.1?

    Yup

  • edited August 2019

    @StudioES said:
    Read you other posts on page 1, Kronecker seems to have problems, its not as reliable as his other apps. Maybe due to the host-syncing emitters thing. And if you turn on the arps in the other apps. Same thing happens in BM3 too.

    hm interesting, with BM3 issues you're reffering just to Kronecker problem or also to AD-related issues described by Klownshed ? I mean freezes and crashes during savin project...

    @klownshed will try reproduce your issue evening step by step

  • @klownshed said:

    @StudioES said:
    Air 2; iOS 12.4; NS2.0.1?

    Yup

    @dendy said:

    @StudioES said:
    Read you other posts on page 1, Kronecker seems to have problems, its not as reliable as his other apps. Maybe due to the host-syncing emitters thing. And if you turn on the arps in the other apps. Same thing happens in BM3 too.

    hm interesting, with BM3 issues you're reffering just to Kronecker problem or also to AD-related issues described by Klownshed ? I mean freezes and crashes during savin project...

    @klownshed will try reproduce your issue evening step by step

    I meant audio export from Kronecker, and arps or other host-timed things. Is the sample rate issue still a thing?

    But will stick to OP's issue with 'freezes and crashes during savin project', which some AD plugins have problems with. Is it a JUCE issue? I seem to recall other apps using JUCE with the 'freezes and crashes during savin project' issues in BM3 over a year ago. But my memory isn't that good. I can try to reproduce the issue in BM3 if @dendy can in NS2.

  • I have not had a single issue with NS2 yet. Enso doesn't seem to work properly in there (just records continuously) but that's it and I don't need it in there anyway.

  • edited August 2019

    @klownshed tried your step by step but without luck - everything works still fine for me :-( i'm switching between all test projects like a madman for last half of hour and still everything rock solid..

    ater first 15 minutes i started also tweak AD plugins, changing their order, added more of them to project - nothing... all rock solid stable:(

    I'm starting to be suspicious if this could be hardware issue with your storage device. Problem is - once you install app, it's document root its saved +/- on same physical part of storage - even if you delete and reinstall app, because iOS actually doesn't completely delete app's document root folder... so bo mater you do, your projects are always stored to +/- same physical area of your storage..

    If this is the case, then complete device wipe and then install apps again would help (but the problem then would theoretically appear in other app, which will be "lucky" enough to be installed on that broken are of device storage)

    it's just my theory, i may be totally wrong - but it is definitely not normal to have such catastrophic issues on one ipad, and totally not on other - with exaclty same plugins and same process ...

    it's actually so stable that i'm thinking about starting using some AD plugins on large scale in my projects :))

  • edited August 2019

    @dendy I’ve just tried again and all I needed to do to get NS2 to lock up was to open the test project and do a save as...

    As you can see the blue spinner in the top right and in the white dialogue are there, this makes NS2 lock up completely.

    I deleted all 4 AD plug ins, swiped up NS2 and relaunched it, did a save as and it worked fine.

    I could not replicate the issues at all with the AD plug ins deleted. I reinstalled the studio bundle, relaunched and lock ups galore within 30 secs.

    if your theory is correct and it’s my storage device, why would deleting the AD plugins instantly fix the file saving hang ups? It would be the exact same part of storage it’s saving to...

  • edited August 2019

    @klownshed
    How many of those 4 AD plugins are you using in that project? What other AUs are you using? Any long samples? NS2 loads all samples to memory. Some AD plugins have memory problems when using more than one of each. Worst ones are Grind, Dubstation, and Quatromod.

    Since Dendy was testing NS2, I tested BM3. I saw your earlier BM3 posts but couldn't help at the time. Can help today.

    I loaded a 'problem-free' BM3 session with Troublemaker, Factory, Ruismaker Noir, Aparillo, and a bank with drum samples. 5 Rozetas, Cality. I first added those 4 AD plugins and saved as a new session. No problems. Then I kept adding more of those 4 AD plugins and saving as a new session. Each new save took longer to save. On the 11th save (9 of those 4 AD plugins), it won't play. Even after force-closing it and clearing memory. But I can open that 11th save, delete most of those AD plugins so that only 4 remain, save as new, force-close BM3, and open that new save that only has 4 AD plugins, and it plays fine. I even saved it as a new session and that plays fine.

    I think it's the same old infamous memory issue when using more than one of each AD plugin. It doesn't affect all AD plugins, btw. And if you're using long samples in NS2, that'll just make it worse. Maybe time to use the stock effects in NS2, they're better than those bread-n-butter AD effects anyway.

  • edited August 2019

    i would not blame just AD plugins... this is something lot more strange and not that simple ... Thei are definitely involved, but may not be direct reason, all this may be just manifestation of completely different problem...

    i saw some crashlogs from klownshed and most strange thing is that every one looks like completely unrealed problem to others...

    plus, as i said, for me on my mini5 actually those plugins works pretty well in ns2

    i still think it may be somehow HW-related issue - that endless blue circle means that NS is trying read or write into storage and it cannot - like some file lock or something like that

  • I'm interested if he's using more than one Grind, Dubstation, or Quatromod. And long samples in NS2.
    And what's running in the background, syncing, fetching, downloading, getting backed up, etc.
    The more instances of those particular AD plugins, the longer it takes to save in BM3. Like from a few seconds to almost a minute or more. That's with a measly 9MB of samples.

  • edited August 2019

    @StudioES

    In the post above I said exactly what the setup was for the test project.

    1 track with 1 instance of slate with the factory 808 preset loaded and 1 each of the four AD plugins from the studio bundle all set to their default patches as audio inserts.

    I save this as ‘test’ play it and then save as ‘test-2’ and keep switching between the two. Then i do another save as and Ns2 locks. I can repeat this easily.

    The reason for this was to try and replicate what happens under normal use, where I get tons of lockups with Ns2 but with the most minimal setup possible to make it easy to replicate.

    I’m frankly surprised that nobody else can replicate.

    I can’t replicate the same issues with Auria Pro or AUM. AUM never seems to crash or lockup. AP crashes. A lot. But never with file related issues and it’s always possible to relaunch and carry on from where you left off.

    I’d switch to AP as my linear sequencer permanently if it had a UI that didn’t make the iPad screen feel like it was smothered with honey. It’s so slow and klunkly compared to AUM or NS2.

    And just as an aside, when it comes to sequencers, I’ve been there for the entire revolution. I used to sync a Mac running the first version of Logic (*) to an 8 track reel to reel before plugins were ever a thing. My sampler had 1 Mb RAM and saved samples to 720k floppy disks. I may appear to be an idiot ;-) but I’m not wet behind the ears. I have a little bit of awareness of what should and shouldn’t work given the available resources.

    (*) and I only bought Logic because It could control my Fostex tape machine whilst Vision only had standard MMC support. Amazingly logic still has code to control the Fostex tape machine! I think I’m going to go back to reel to reel :-D

    That was a bit of a digression. ;-)

  • edited August 2019

    @klownshed said:
    I have a method that can replicate the issue every time I think.

    I create a new project and call it test.
    I add a slate track into an empty project and load the factory 808 preset
    I add one bar of random hits.
    I have the Audio Damage fx bundle and add one of each to the audio fx in this slate track
    (EOS2 + Dubstation + Grind + QuatroMod). I leave each one in its default config.

    Now I play this track. Instant industrial by the way. Save.

    No, whilst still playing I save as Test 2.

    Now, I load test again. Then play. Then test 2. I keep repeating this 4 or 5 times.

    I now do another save as and create Test 3. NS2 hangs.

    OK I just tried this, as had the same issue as you with K7D in the other thread, and it also hangs for me when saving Test 3. I’m on an iPad Air 2 iOS 12.4.

  • @cretakano said:

    OK I just tried this, as had the same issue as you with K7D in the other thread, and it also hangs for me when saving Test 3. I’m on an iPad Air 2 iOS 12.4.

    Thanks for trying this and confirming the test ‘works’. We both have Air 2s. It will be interesting to see if it can be reproduced on different iPads models.

  • Cool that we finally reproduced it !!!

    @cretakano did it also crashed or just freezetd ?

    can you look if you found any crashlogs for plugins or nanostudio itself from time when this happened ?
    crashlogs are located in iOS Settings > Privacy > Analytics > Analytics data

    please locate all crashlogs which may be related to this event (all plugins or ns itself) and send them to me.. ideally if you upload them on dropbox or somewhere and send me links to privste message, thanks !

  • @klownshed said:
    @cretakano said:

    OK I just tried this, as had the same issue as you with K7D in the other thread, and it also hangs for me when saving Test 3. I’m on an iPad Air 2 iOS 12.4.

    Thanks for trying this and confirming the test ‘works’. We both have Air 2s. It will be interesting to see if it can be reproduced on different iPads models.

    No worries, hope it helps to find the problem.

    @dendy said:
    Cool that we finally reproduced it !!!

    @cretakano did it also crashed or just freezetd ?

    can you look if you found any crashlogs for plugins or nanostudio itself from time when this happened ?
    crashlogs are located in iOS Settings > Privacy > Analytics > Analytics data

    please locate all crashlogs which may be related to this event (all plugins or ns itself) and send them to me.. ideally if you upload them on dropbox or somewhere and send me links to privste message, thanks !

    It just freezes on the spinning blue wheel, and then I have to force quit. When I open NS2 again, it loads up the previous project but the new one is in my project folder and loads fine.

    The only crashlog from today is from QuatroMod, I’ll upload it and PM you.

  • @dendy

    Cool that we finally reproduced it !!!

    !!!!!!!

  • I'll throw this in and bow out:
    K7d too? How about testing the free and related ones using JUCE like DLYM, Beatformer, Klevg Svep?
    NS2 hangs while saving, BM3 slows down to a crawl with these apps. Only common denominator I've found is apps using JUCE. But I'm not dev so I leave now...

    Could be related to this? ---
    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/20439/trouble-starting-several-au-instances/p3

  • Did anybody manage to get any further with this?

  • @klownshed said:
    Did anybody manage to get any further with this?

    This is a crazy workaround for my issue but it works consistently. I have one instance of grind. I’ve saved the preset to a user preset. Before I save the NS2 project I delete that instance add a new one and load the preset and then save the project. Works every time. Makes my render go a hair faster (like from .4x to .6x maybe).

  • edited September 2019

    @klownshed said:
    Did anybody manage to get any further with this?

    yes, i've made progress, i'm able to reproduce similiar issues like yours - we moved a bit forward with this issue, still long race to finish but i see light at end of tunnel ! There is hope !

  • @StudioES said:
    I'll throw this in and bow out:
    K7d too? How about testing the free and related ones using JUCE like DLYM, Beatformer, Klevg Svep?
    NS2 hangs while saving, BM3 slows down to a crawl with these apps. Only common denominator I've found is apps using JUCE. But I'm not dev so I leave now...

    Could be related to this? ---
    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/20439/trouble-starting-several-au-instances/p3

    oooo didn't read this before !! Yes, that is exactly it, at least for now it looks this way..

  • @drez said:

    @klownshed said:
    Did anybody manage to get any further with this?

    This is a crazy workaround for my issue but it works consistently. I have one instance of grind. I’ve saved the preset to a user preset. Before I save the NS2 project I delete that instance add a new one and load the preset and then save the project. Works every time. Makes my render go a hair faster (like from .4x to .6x maybe).

    I should qualify my issue with this is a huge project not a single track with a grind and that’s it. It’s an actual song :lol:

  • @dendy said:

    @klownshed said:
    Did anybody manage to get any further with this?

    yes, i've made progress, i'm able to reproduce similiar issues like yours - we moved a bit forward with this issue, still long race to finish but i see light at end of tunnel ! There is hope !

    Awesome news :+1:

  • edited September 2019

    I'm also curious if PadOS13 fixes this problem - there is small chamce, some users reported that they are able to run significantly more plugins wihout crashes on PadOS13, so maybe at the end this problem will pass away :)

    holding fingers crossed ;)

  • Great work guys, this is really promising!

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