Beatmaker sampler as opposed to Virsyn AudioLayer sampler

Important preface -- I'm not trying to open up some sort of developer evangelistic war here ... i'm honestly curious. I have BM3 and do love it. My struggle with the app is becoming more manageable daily. I have several apps by VirSyn and really dig them.

So the question(s) is : what does the new sampler app from VirSyn offer that BM3 doesn't. I would appreciate those who have used or are using both to weigh in. Thanks!

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Comments

  • Sweet topic...

  • edited August 2018

    I struggle with BM3, and in particular hooking it up to AUM - I worked out how to do it a while back, but forget again by the next time I use it. Fans will sing its praises, and I realise my issues with it are down to the fact I don’t use it much, but I find the UI totally confusing.

    In contrast I can load up the Virsyn app as an AU, record or load a sample and bang - I’m straight in.

    BM3 has more features regarding the sampler, but to be honest the Virsyn app covers my needs.

  • @AudioGus said:
    Sweet topic...

    Especially for Sampler idiots like me... Go!

  • One of the things I am interested in with the Virsyn sampler is how it handles large audio files of several minutes long but have not seen this in any videos.

  • @AudioGus said:
    One of the things I am interested in with the Virsyn sampler is how it handles large audio files of several minutes long but have not seen this in any videos.

    Then make one. 🤪

  • @Chaztrip said:

    @AudioGus said:
    One of the things I am interested in with the Virsyn sampler is how it handles large audio files of several minutes long but have not seen this in any videos.

    Then make one. 🤪

    There is a certain chicken/egg paradox at play.

  • @AudioGus said:
    One of the things I am interested in with the Virsyn sampler is how it handles large audio files of several minutes long but have not seen this in any videos.

    How does BM3 do with that? Obviously, I haven't gotten that far yet. :)

  • BM3 comes as a DAW, Audiolayer can be used in which ever host you want, that works way better for me. I like using different hosts depending on the situation. So investing time in building instruments with Audiolayer makes more sense for me.

  • @Carnbot said:
    BM3 comes as a DAW, Audiolayer can be used in which ever host you want, that works way better for me. I like using different hosts depending on the situation. So investing time in building instruments with Audiolayer makes more sense for me.

    Excellent point!

  • @AudioGus said:
    One of the things I am interested in with the Virsyn sampler is how it handles large audio files of several minutes long but have not seen this in any videos.

    I’ve loaded whole tracks into it and it doesn’t complain.

  • edited August 2018

    @MonzoPro said:

    @AudioGus said:
    One of the things I am interested in with the Virsyn sampler is how it handles large audio files of several minutes long but have not seen this in any videos.

    I’ve loaded whole tracks into it and it doesn’t complain.

    Cool... ahh, if the Virsyn sampler could let you send individual keys to different FX I would have got it right away for building Cubasis drumkits / fx kits etc. Such a shame, hope it gets it (or I misunderstand and am wrong that you cannot do this...?)

    In the end I do just run BM3 along side Cubasis, works well enough... for now...ish

  • @AudioGus said:

    Cool... ahh, if the Virsyn sampler could let you send individual keys to different FX I would have got it right away for building Cubasis drumkits / fx kits etc. Such a shame, hope it gets it (or I misunderstand and am wrong that you cannot do this...?)

    Considering that the effects in AudioLayer are processed in serial fashion it would indeed be super handy to be able to send any layer/zone to a selected 'slot' in the effect chain.(For example 'Slot Number' and 'Send Level').

    For example if Slot 1 has Chorus, Slot 2 has Delay and Slot 3 has Reverb it would give great flexibility to choose the 'chain position' a layer or zone sends to.

    Sending to slot 1 would give Chorus->Delay->Reverb
    Sending to slot 2 would give Delay->Reverb
    Sending to slot 3 would give Reverb

    This is something I hope will spark interest over at @VirSyn :)

    Now imagine if we also had the same 'Slice Send Flexibility' in ReSlice ;)

  • @Carnbot said:
    BM3 comes as a DAW, Audiolayer can be used in which ever host you want, that works way better for me. I like using different hosts depending on the situation. So investing time in building instruments with Audiolayer makes more sense for me.

    This captures it much better than I could have said it. And I do think we'll see a proliferation of AU hosts with specific specialized user experiences to address specific use cases and contexts (eg, ApeMatrix).

    AudioLayer has a couple of handy features that BM3 doesn't: the most helpful to me is the round robin and randomization features. It also does very good pitch detection for easy mapping to zones.

    One other thing to mention: AudioLayer works fabulously within BM3. Open AudioLayer, hit record, and then start the BM3 transport. Ironically, could be easier resampling than BM3 currently offers...

  • DISCLAIMER: I don't own or use BeatMaker but I'm researching the differences in Sampler types.

    The differences between BeatMaker and AudioLayer are in the names:

    BeatMaker has a sampler that's ideal for building Beats using the Sampler to slice and manipulate audio samples:

    • slice the audio at transients in the imported music sample
    • manipulate the slice with reverse playback, effects, etc
    • tie these audio clips to PAD's (or keys) and trigger manually or with MIDI events to make Beats

    AudioLayer is intended to import recordings/samples of pure instruments (piano, Moog Synth, violin, trumpet, etc) and create layers to make a more realistic simulation of the instrument being re-created. People that want a BeatMaker approach are frustrated that the App doesn't slice anything for them. They will slice outside the App and use AudioLayer for similar use cases after slicing and manipulating samples if they have the patience.

    The benefit of re-purposing AudioLayer for slicing and manipulating slice is the AUv3 and light weight instrument that can be driven by and MIDI app in any DAW supporting AUv3 and getting out of the BeatMaker (Gadget, etc) total development environment.

    AudioLayer can go a few ways with updates:

    1. They have a ReSlice product and can merge those extra features in this product. Early feedback is asking for this and adding PAD's and some sequencing to the Standalone version.

    2. They can add bulk Open Standard Soundfile packages into the product to allow instrument sharing are potentially IAP or 3rd party sales of instruments that import cleanly with demo-able results to drive more sales.

    If you tend to build music using typical keyboard player techniques like @LinearLineMan you would like the capabilities of AudioLayer but find it too limited in the choice of instruments available today. Better to buy AUv3 instrument products and drop them into Cubasis. Scaling that up for complex music has it's own challenges do to CPU/RAM Limitations.

    If you prefer the Beat Maker's workflow AudioLayer is even more frustrating since you have to build so much by hand or externally from the App. Just use BeatMaker3 or it's competitors in that use case.

    I hope this helps.

    PS - I grabbed Samplr and ReSlice to look into how I might use them to make instruments from slices and it looks like they are really made to map the slices with the typical pitch shifting I expect when I make a keyboard instrument in AudioLayer. I'm still wondering if BeatMaker can do that. Does it have root notes, Zones and pitch shifting to spread small Trumpet slices and make a realistic Trumpet instrument for playing jazz solos that convince the listener there's a trumpet player on the track?

    NOTE: Making instruments in AudioLayer is very time consuming and ideally we should find ways to share our efforts and build a large downloadable public library.

  • Excellent post @McDTracy. Very helpful. I think I fall into the BM3 category.

    This is cool though and holds promise for this community ... "NOTE: Making instruments in AudioLayer is very time consuming and ideally we should find ways to share our efforts and build a large downloadable public library."

  • edited August 2018

    Yah in the end I think my uses for a 'sampler' on iOS are more as a surrogate for DAW timeline audio chopping ala Samplitude on desktop.

  • @AudioGus said:
    Yah in the end I think my uses for a 'sampler' on iOS are more as a surrogate for DAW timeline audio chopping ala Samplitude on desktop.

    I think I probably did the same, AudioLayer is a different beast altogether though - ease/speed of use, plus AU, plus low CPU make it a proper instrument for me.

    The fact that I can quickly create a sampled instrument, and then sequence it via Rozeta and Steppolyarp mean it’ll get a lot of use from me.

  • @kinkujin said:
    Excellent post @McDTracy. Very helpful. I think I fall into the BM3 category.

    I suspect IOS Music (and popular music in general) is dominated by BM3 techniques to sound fresh. Making something sound like Beethoven or Miles Davis is more of an exercise in nostaligia.

    Of course, there is the use case of making movie/TV soundtracks and that's increasingly a mix of the 2 genres with a lot more synth driven scores mixed with the John Williams type of symphonic scores.

    For anyone that really craves complete orchestral simulations they end up on the desktop with some massive sound libraries.
    Those of us that play here are just hobbiests that don't have the budget to pay $2000-4000 to stay current with the audio instrument sampler's art. @Kuhl excepted I think and he works from musical notation on many of his projects. Some of those apps have instrument libraries embedded to save extra steps in the workflow.

    In the end we are all trying to optimize our workflow.

  • @MonzoPro said:

    @AudioGus said:
    Yah in the end I think my uses for a 'sampler' on iOS are more as a surrogate for DAW timeline audio chopping ala Samplitude on desktop.

    I think I probably did the same, AudioLayer is a different beast altogether though - ease/speed of use, plus AU, plus low CPU make it a proper instrument for me.

    The fact that I can quickly create a sampled instrument, and then sequence it via Rozeta and Steppolyarp mean it’ll get a lot of use from me.

    Hmmmm, I am sure I will bite at some point. Renoise on PC has a cool 'turn a vst into a set of samples' feature that could maybe be a useful friend for this.

  • @AudioGus said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    @AudioGus said:
    Yah in the end I think my uses for a 'sampler' on iOS are more as a surrogate for DAW timeline audio chopping ala Samplitude on desktop.

    I think I probably did the same, AudioLayer is a different beast altogether though - ease/speed of use, plus AU, plus low CPU make it a proper instrument for me.

    The fact that I can quickly create a sampled instrument, and then sequence it via Rozeta and Steppolyarp mean it’ll get a lot of use from me.

    Hmmmm, I am sure I will bite at some point. Renoise on PC has a cool 'turn a vst into a set of samples' feature that could maybe be a useful friend for this.

    Yeah I’m ‘bouncing in place’ like mad via Reason at the moment..

  • My opinion on the differences between the two:

    BM3 is an obvious workstation/sampler that focuses on beat making type workflows, and although it’s a very deep app it misses some ground on a few features. It however has a nice sample editor built in that far out performs the one in the AudioLayer app. Building complicated instruments (key Groups) can be done quite well and with quite a flexible set of features in bm3.

    AudioLayer is super basic in its sample editing ability (Which is a bit ? Wtf) but in its favor, it does have the ability to be used as an auv3 in different hosts, and it has pitch/root note detection which... unless you have skillful pitch hearing abilities ...is a much needed utility that is lacking from beatmaker3 (whyyyyyy). AudioLayer can also stream large libraries which will make it indispensable for realistic files such as pianos etc.

    I have to think, that if you are investing a bunch of time into patch building, it may serve better to go toward the AudioLayer app direction, as your labor will be rewarded with the ability to use said sounds in bm3 and other auv3 hosts as well...providing the best flexibility at the moment. AudioLayer also works on the iPhone making it more versatile as far as devices at the present time.

    I personally wouldn’t want the nightmare job of putting bm3 on an iPhone screen...it’s already highly busy on an iPad Pro!

  • edited August 2018

    So the question(s) is : what does the new sampler app from VirSyn offer that BM3 doesn't.

    Universal support. Full Stop.

  • edited August 2018

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    @Carnbot said:
    BM3 comes as a DAW, Audiolayer can be used in which ever host you want, that works way better for me. I like using different hosts depending on the situation. So investing time in building instruments with Audiolayer makes more sense for me.

    This captures it much better than I could have said it. And I do think we'll see a proliferation of AU hosts with specific specialized user experiences to address specific use cases and contexts (eg, ApeMatrix).

    AudioLayer has a couple of handy features that BM3 doesn't: the most helpful to me is the round robin and randomization features. It also does very good pitch detection for easy mapping to zones.

    One other thing to mention: AudioLayer works fabulously within BM3. Open AudioLayer, hit record, and then start the BM3 transport. Ironically, could be easier resampling than BM3 currently offers...

    No way seriously ? That almost is enough to make me buy this thing. Even though it’s not SO bad in bm3, it does get a bit tedious having to route the correct pad through to the pad that you want to record audio to. If this sampler makes that process easier it may be worth it just for that. And anything else is a bonus.

  • edited August 2018

    @universe said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    @Carnbot said:
    BM3 comes as a DAW, Audiolayer can be used in which ever host you want, that works way better for me. I like using different hosts depending on the situation. So investing time in building instruments with Audiolayer makes more sense for me.

    This captures it much better than I could have said it. And I do think we'll see a proliferation of AU hosts with specific specialized user experiences to address specific use cases and contexts (eg, ApeMatrix).

    AudioLayer has a couple of handy features that BM3 doesn't: the most helpful to me is the round robin and randomization features. It also does very good pitch detection for easy mapping to zones.

    One other thing to mention: AudioLayer works fabulously within BM3. Open AudioLayer, hit record, and then start the BM3 transport. Ironically, could be easier resampling than BM3 currently offers...

    No way seriously ? That almost is enough to make me buy this thing. Even though it’s not SO bad in bm3, it does get a bit tedious having to route the correct pad through to the pad that you want to record audio to. If this sampler makes that process easier it may be worth it just for that. And anything else is a bonus.

    Seriously. Here are the steps:

    1. Get a groove going in BM3.
    2. Stop the transport.
    3. Open the FX picker and load audio layer app.
    4. Make a new layer and select record.
    5. Start transport and recording starts automatically.
    6. Stop recording when you want (I add a bar to my pattern to get a clean break).
    7. Name the sample.
    8. I turn off pitching and extended the release in audio layer.

    Tap a key in BM3 and your new sample plays. It's also now available across all iOS devices if you use iCloud. It's magic!

  • @lukesleepwalker said:

    @universe said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    @Carnbot said:
    BM3 comes as a DAW, Audiolayer can be used in which ever host you want, that works way better for me. I like using different hosts depending on the situation. So investing time in building instruments with Audiolayer makes more sense for me.

    This captures it much better than I could have said it. And I do think we'll see a proliferation of AU hosts with specific specialized user experiences to address specific use cases and contexts (eg, ApeMatrix).

    AudioLayer has a couple of handy features that BM3 doesn't: the most helpful to me is the round robin and randomization features. It also does very good pitch detection for easy mapping to zones.

    One other thing to mention: AudioLayer works fabulously within BM3. Open AudioLayer, hit record, and then start the BM3 transport. Ironically, could be easier resampling than BM3 currently offers...

    No way seriously ? That almost is enough to make me buy this thing. Even though it’s not SO bad in bm3, it does get a bit tedious having to route the correct pad through to the pad that you want to record audio to. If this sampler makes that process easier it may be worth it just for that. And anything else is a bonus.

    Seriously. Here are the steps:

    1. Get a groove going in BM3.
    2. Stop the transport.
    3. Open the FX picker and load audio layer app.
    4. Make a new layer and select record.
    5. Start transport and recording starts automatically.
    6. Stop recording when you want (I add a bar to my pattern to get a clean break).
    7. Name the sample.
    8. I turn off pitching and extended the release in audio layer.

    Tap a key in BM3 and your new sample plays. It's also now available across all iOS devices if you use iCloud. It's magic!

    Thanks. Ok it seems I need to get the old wallet out. again.
    One question though what if I want to move / use that new audio sample back into a bm3 pad. Is that easy to do too?

  • @universe said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    @universe said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    @Carnbot said:
    BM3 comes as a DAW, Audiolayer can be used in which ever host you want, that works way better for me. I like using different hosts depending on the situation. So investing time in building instruments with Audiolayer makes more sense for me.

    This captures it much better than I could have said it. And I do think we'll see a proliferation of AU hosts with specific specialized user experiences to address specific use cases and contexts (eg, ApeMatrix).

    AudioLayer has a couple of handy features that BM3 doesn't: the most helpful to me is the round robin and randomization features. It also does very good pitch detection for easy mapping to zones.

    One other thing to mention: AudioLayer works fabulously within BM3. Open AudioLayer, hit record, and then start the BM3 transport. Ironically, could be easier resampling than BM3 currently offers...

    No way seriously ? That almost is enough to make me buy this thing. Even though it’s not SO bad in bm3, it does get a bit tedious having to route the correct pad through to the pad that you want to record audio to. If this sampler makes that process easier it may be worth it just for that. And anything else is a bonus.

    Seriously. Here are the steps:

    1. Get a groove going in BM3.
    2. Stop the transport.
    3. Open the FX picker and load audio layer app.
    4. Make a new layer and select record.
    5. Start transport and recording starts automatically.
    6. Stop recording when you want (I add a bar to my pattern to get a clean break).
    7. Name the sample.
    8. I turn off pitching and extended the release in audio layer.

    Tap a key in BM3 and your new sample plays. It's also now available across all iOS devices if you use iCloud. It's magic!

    Thanks. Ok it seems I need to get the old wallet out. again.
    One question though what if I want to move / use that new audio sample back into a bm3 pad. Is that easy to do too?

    Sure just load AL as an AU instrument.

  • edited August 2018

    @McDtracy said:

    @kinkujin said:
    Excellent post @McDTracy. Very helpful. I think I fall into the BM3 category.

    I suspect IOS Music (and popular music in general) is dominated by BM3 techniques to sound fresh. Making something sound like Beethoven or Miles Davis is more of an exercise in nostaligia.

    Of course, there is the use case of making movie/TV soundtracks and that's increasingly a mix of the 2 genres with a lot more synth driven scores mixed with the John Williams type of symphonic scores.

    For anyone that really craves complete orchestral simulations they end up on the desktop with some massive sound libraries.
    Those of us that play here are just hobbiests that don't have the budget to pay $2000-4000 to stay current with the audio instrument sampler's art. @Kuhl excepted I think and he works from musical notation on many of his projects. Some of those apps have instrument libraries embedded to save extra steps in the workflow.

    In the end we are all trying to optimize our workflow.

    That’s right. I use desktop software, and I also have the mighty Yamaha Tyros 4 workstation with choirs and strings. But I really like the environment of just me, my cat and iPad. It’s so mobile, I can work with ease anywhere.
    And if I plug my iPad into the USB port of the Tyros... it’s a full studio. No need for desktop computer.
    The Tyros records midi and audio, it has mic amp with voice and harmony. It has a multitude of midiports, but I just use the usb for midi. Workstation with iPad Pro is my way for the future.

  • @Kühl said:

    @McDtracy said:

    @kinkujin said:
    Excellent post @McDTracy. Very helpful. I think I fall into the BM3 category.

    I suspect IOS Music (and popular music in general) is dominated by BM3 techniques to sound fresh. Making something sound like Beethoven or Miles Davis is more of an exercise in nostaligia.

    Of course, there is the use case of making movie/TV soundtracks and that's increasingly a mix of the 2 genres with a lot more synth driven scores mixed with the John Williams type of symphonic scores.

    For anyone that really craves complete orchestral simulations they end up on the desktop with some massive sound libraries.
    Those of us that play here are just hobbiests that don't have the budget to pay $2000-4000 to stay current with the audio instrument sampler's art. @Kuhl excepted I think and he works from musical notation on many of his projects. Some of those apps have instrument libraries embedded to save extra steps in the workflow.

    In the end we are all trying to optimize our workflow.

    That’s right. I use desktop software, and I also have the mighty Yamaha Tyros 4 workstation with choirs and strings. But I really like the environment of just me, my cat and iPad. It’s so mobile, I can work with ease anywhere.
    And if I plug my iPad into the USB port of the Tyros... it’s a full studio. No need for desktop computer.
    The Tyros records midi and audio, it has mic amp with voice and harmony. It has a multitude of midiports, but I just use the usb for midi. Workstation with iPad Pro is my way for the future.

    I can only find a Tyros 5 for about $4800 :o :o :o

  • @Kühl said:

    @McDtracy said:

    @kinkujin said:
    Excellent post @McDTracy. Very helpful. I think I fall into the BM3 category.

    I suspect IOS Music (and popular music in general) is dominated by BM3 techniques to sound fresh. Making something sound like Beethoven or Miles Davis is more of an exercise in nostaligia.

    Of course, there is the use case of making movie/TV soundtracks and that's increasingly a mix of the 2 genres with a lot more synth driven scores mixed with the John Williams type of symphonic scores.

    For anyone that really craves complete orchestral simulations they end up on the desktop with some massive sound libraries.
    Those of us that play here are just hobbiests that don't have the budget to pay $2000-4000 to stay current with the audio instrument sampler's art. @Kuhl excepted I think and he works from musical notation on many of his projects. Some of those apps have instrument libraries embedded to save extra steps in the workflow.

    In the end we are all trying to optimize our workflow.

    That’s right. I use desktop software, and I also have the mighty Yamaha Tyros 4 workstation with choirs and strings. But I really like the environment of just me, my cat and iPad. It’s so mobile, I can work with ease anywhere.
    And if I plug my iPad into the USB port of the Tyros... it’s a full studio. No need for desktop computer.
    The Tyros records midi and audio, it has mic amp with voice and harmony. It has a multitude of midiports, but I just use the usb for midi. Workstation with iPad Pro is my way for the future.

    Similar setup to me, I also have a Tyros 4 (got a good deal on it second hand) plus iPad Pro. I used the Tyros harmony voices on a recent project, recorded into Auria.

  • edited August 2018

    @tja said:

    @Kühl said:

    @McDtracy said:

    @kinkujin said:
    Excellent post @McDTracy. Very helpful. I think I fall into the BM3 category.

    I suspect IOS Music (and popular music in general) is dominated by BM3 techniques to sound fresh. Making something sound like Beethoven or Miles Davis is more of an exercise in nostaligia.

    Of course, there is the use case of making movie/TV soundtracks and that's increasingly a mix of the 2 genres with a lot more synth driven scores mixed with the John Williams type of symphonic scores.

    For anyone that really craves complete orchestral simulations they end up on the desktop with some massive sound libraries.
    Those of us that play here are just hobbiests that don't have the budget to pay $2000-4000 to stay current with the audio instrument sampler's art. @Kuhl excepted I think and he works from musical notation on many of his projects. Some of those apps have instrument libraries embedded to save extra steps in the workflow.

    In the end we are all trying to optimize our workflow.

    That’s right. I use desktop software, and I also have the mighty Yamaha Tyros 4 workstation with choirs and strings. But I really like the environment of just me, my cat and iPad. It’s so mobile, I can work with ease anywhere.
    And if I plug my iPad into the USB port of the Tyros... it’s a full studio. No need for desktop computer.
    The Tyros records midi and audio, it has mic amp with voice and harmony. It has a multitude of midiports, but I just use the usb for midi. Workstation with iPad Pro is my way for the future.

    I can only find a Tyros 5 for about $4800 :o :o :o

    Is that much? Mine costed me about 30.000 Norwegian crones. 9 years old.
    I don’t know if 48K is much where you live, but it probably is

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