OT: Subscription strikes again

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Comments

  • @Zen210507 said:

    @animal said:
    I won't pay subscriptions.

    If you have Ulysses, but not actually installed due to space considerations, the makers now deny you access. Instead they make the 'generous' offer of paying £26 for full access every year. This being a 50% discount! So for new customers, these clowns are charging £52 a year...for a cut down word processor. Unbelievable.

    Also, if you look at the review section for the app, there are highly suspicious glowing reviews, in praise of the subscription model. Attempting to update a review, which is usually instant, fails with this app. Who is reviewing the reviews and stalling on publication?

    Can't you re-download Ulysses from your purchased tab? They are no longer selling it but you should still be ale to download it if purchased it.

    The subscription price by the way is 30 $ for existing users vs 40 $ for new users so not exactly the 50% discount they advertize.

    This whole move to subscription seems poorly planned. Switching to monthly payments when there are no new features is just, well, too easy to refuse even for users who use the app a lot. Also, killing Daedalus just weeks before, they could have kept it alive as part of the subscription package etc.

    It will be interesting to see if it works out for them, they wouldn't be the first ones to try subscription and then go back to normal paid apps because that ultimately brings more revenue for many types of apps.

  • edited August 2017 Vote Up0

    @nick said:
    Can't you re-download Ulysses from your purchased tab? They are no longer selling it but you should still be ale to download it if purchased it.

    No, Nick, that is the big issue. Attempting to download previous purchase just grabs the new one. The option there to restore previous purchase does not do that. It just leads to the subscription screen. So if you happened to have taken the old app off your iPad, there is no way to get it back short of a full restore from back up. This retroactively denies customers access to what they bought.

  • @Zen210507 said:

    I can download the new version, and that does show a Restore Purchase option....but, when tapped, all it does is offer some kind of lifetime subscription for £26. So these bastards actually want me to buy the app again for more, and prevent me from restoring the old version.

    You can always download your previously-purchased version and keep using that. No need to switch to the new one, which is a separate app you have to explicitly download. Go to your “purchases” section in the App Store. Don’t accuse people of “robbery” because you don’t know how the App Store works.

    Also, if you look at the review section for the app, there are highly suspicious glowing reviews, in praise of the subscription model. Attempting to update a review, which is usually instant, fails with this app. Who is reviewing the reviews and stalling on publication?

    I know the developers of this app and there’s no way they’d be so sneaky. Also, fake reviews are against App Store rules, and so they’d risk being kicked out. It’s a shame you have such a low opinion of people.

  • @jwmmakerofmusic said:

    You stated your side quite well. (I'm on my iPhone at the moment. I can explain my side better once I'm home if you wish. ;) )

    Looks like you already did! Well put. I strongly agree that subs are only right for some kinds of apps.

  • edited August 2017 Vote Up0

    @mistercharlie said:
    You can always download your previously-purchased version and keep using that. No need to switch to the new one, which is a separate app you have to explicitly download. Go to your “purchases” section in the App Store. Don’t accuse people of “robbery” because you don’t know how the App Store works.

    Perhaps you are unable to read plain English, as well as being a condescending git. I know perfectly well how the App Store works.

    Attempting to download from purchased tab results in the new version installing, and that will not restore my previous purchase even when the option is selected. Is that clear enough, or do you want it in big letters.

  • edited August 2017 Vote Up0

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:

    So, CHARGE MORE MONEY! You can still charge cheaper prices for the iOS versions of PC apps so iOS musicians feel like they're getting a bargain, but charging a simple $2.99 for an app that by rights should be at least $4.99 if not $9.99 is close to being robbed of a sustainable income. These are my opinions at any rate. ;) Cheers.

    Trouble is, even $9.99 isn't anything like a sustainable income for developers, given the niche status of iOS music apps. How many iOS music devs are actually making a decent income? I would suggest that you would be reaching if you tried counting them on the fingers of 2 hands. But the market has prices it will bear and prices it will laugh at, due to the history of App Store pricing and perceived value. So devs really are in a bind, given that iOS users expect continual updates to add all the features they 'expect', having paid one price that is minuscule compared to what is charged for desktop software.

    I don't consider myself immune to this conditioning - I paid £19.99 for PPG Infinite this week, but only begrudgingly. That would probably be over £99 on Mac/PC. I deliberately don't buy many VSTs on Mac because of the pricing but I recognise that developers need to eat and have a roof over their heads. However, when I see an app that's overpriced compared to the market I feel like complaining, even though it's rarely priced due to greed, more like for survival.

  • @Zen210507 said:

    @nick said:
    Can't you re-download Ulysses from your purchased tab? They are no longer selling it but you should still be ale to download it if purchased it.

    No, Nick, that is the big issue. Attempting to download previous purchase just grabs the new one. The option there to restore previous purchase does not do that. It just leads to the subscription screen. So if you happened to have taken the old app off your iPad, there is no way to get it back short of a full restore from back up. This retroactively denies customers access to what they bought.

    That is really out of order. If they're changing the pricing model they should apply it to a new product, not break an existing one-off purchase.

    I'd be surprised if that's even legal.

  • @Michael_R_Grant said:
    I don't consider myself immune to this conditioning - I paid £19.99 for PPG Infinite this week, but only begrudgingly. That would probably be over £99 on Mac/PC.

    But it's not a PC or Mac version. It's in the IOS App Store, entirely by the choice of the developer, and sold at a price set by him which he thinks is fair, and that the market place will accept.

    I just don't get comparing to entirely different markets as if they were the same thing.

  • edited August 2017 Vote Up0

    @MonzoPro said:
    That is really out of order. If they're changing the pricing model they should apply it to a new product, not break an existing one-off purchase.

    I'd be surprised if that's even legal.

    Yes. It may be a mistake of coding. I was very surprised that I could not get the earlier version.

    When you install from previous purchase, and launch the app, an option appears under the subscription guff to restore previous purchase. Tap that, input your App Store details, and virtual wheels whir...only to land you back where you started. Dismissing that screen results in the screen grab I posted earlier, saying that you are in Read Only mode and activation has expired!

    So what they've done is revoke the activation that I already paid for. This is unacceptable. Either, I get the old version back, or I want a full refund. If developers are allowed to sell apps, then revoke the right to use them, we're all stuffed.

  • edited August 2017 Vote Up0

    That seems buggy or an accidental mess indeed.

    What I like about the Ulysses folks is an attempt to at least try to bring new aspects into word processing.
    Their Dedalus approach with a leaf/staple paradigm obviously didn't really cut eventually, yet it was a valid attempt.
    (and they offered the 50% on Ulysses as a sequel, confirming Dedalus would continue to run, just without Dropbox when Dropbox was going to change their interface. Fair imho)

    I completely disagree that wordprocessing is a one trick pony.
    It only is in the bullshit Word paradigm: wanna be everything, apply the most confusing GUI organisation, have clumpsy code with lame performance - and people will love it >:)

    Tbh my favorite office thing (if anyone remembers) is Ragtime 3 from the MacOS 7 to 9 days. 2 Megabytes of code that beat any later attempt from MS, Apple or the Open Source hands down for efficiency and performance.

    btt there is a lot to be improved in word processor handling and workflow and if anyone can do it, the chaps from Ulysses are my most prospective candidates.
    A question of attitude, which they seem to have - it's not a fake imho.

    I'm kind of experienced with 'overpriced' stuff - still using a DSP system from y2k, my DAW was $800 for just cut/arrange, my favorite SDKs were $8k and $4k.
    All these systems were only loosely tied to the respective operating system and saved me tremendous amounts of time and effort in keeping them current.
    In other words: there NEVER was any effort at all and I didn't have to bother about shitty .Net libs or whatever change messed the workspace.

    Yes, I'd gladly even pay full charge if this thing improved workflow - and workflow starts with screen response and gesture analysis.
    They seem to have some some points there, compared to the other 'Writers' I have used.
    But it's still the tip of the iceberg - a lot to be done and that's what they try to secure atm.

  • @Zen210507 said:

    @MonzoPro said:
    That is really out of order. If they're changing the pricing model they should apply it to a new product, not break an existing one-off purchase.

    I'd be surprised if that's even legal.

    Yes. It may be a mistake of coding. I was very surprised that I could not get the earlier version.

    When you install from previous purchase, and launch the app, an option appears under the subscription guff to restore previous purchase. Tap that, input your App Store details, and virtual wheels whir...only to land you back where you started. Dismissing that screen results in the screen grab I posted earlier, saying that you are in Read Only mode and activation has expired!

    So what they've done is revoke the activation that I already paid for. This is unacceptable. Either, I get the old version back, or I want a full refund. If developers are allowed to sell apps, then revoke the right to use them, we're all stuffed.

    It may be a specific glitch on your iPad maybe? Because I see the old version in my purchase history and could still download it from there. You do have to download the old version, you cannot restore the old functionality with the new version.

    If this problem persists, if I were you I'd contact Apple because something is not right.

  • Look. Asciidoc - it maps into docbook, but eschews the pointy-bracket insanity of XML markup. It looks like markdown (but it better, more standardised, and predates markdown). Once it is made into docbook it can transform into most formats in existence. Anything that can edit ascii text anywhere can edit asciidoc.

    http://mojavelinux.github.io/decks/write-in-asciidoc-publish-everywhere/mixit2015/index.html#/
    http://asciidoctor.org/docs/what-is-asciidoc/
    http://asciidoctor.org/docs/asciidoctor-revealjs/
    https://powerman.name/doc/asciidoc
    https://opensource.com/life/15/10/asciidoc
    http://www.vogella.com/tutorials/AsciiDoc/article.html
    http://kaczanowscy.pl/tomek/2011-09/nice-presentations-in-no-time-with-asciidoc-and-slidy
    https://wolandscat.net/2015/09/11/goodbye-to-adobe-framemaker-hello-asciidoctor/ (This last one - I myself used to be a FrameMaker professional for several years)

    Seriously - take a look at it, it is good. I'm not offering you a choice here, you will go and look at it. Go on. Now.

  • @MonzoPro said:
    It won't be the future, because most people won't sign-up, they'll go for one-off purchases instead.

    Worth a try, though it's the reason I no longer use Adobe.

    You see this is why EWQL do so well with their subscription model, you can jump in and out anytime you want or you can just buy what you want, they of offer mixing and matching of both services

  • It is a shame (sub-model for this kind of app is not sustainable anyways).

    And the release was typical for these self-hype chaos-clowns: bugs, problems, lack of actual support. As always (long-time user, mostly historical reasons).

  • @nick said:
    It may be a specific glitch on your iPad maybe? Because I see the old version in my purchase history and could still download it from there. You do have to download the old version, you cannot restore the old functionality with the new version.

    If this problem persists, if I were you I'd contact Apple because something is not right.

    Well, I see version 11 in the App Store, and in my previous purchases. Every other app I've checked is fine. So, what I suspect, is that attrmlting to download my original purchase somehow grabbed the current one.

    On that, I now realise, the restore option is only good for the new version and beyond. It won't restore an old version, and actually revokes the activation!

  • @thesoundtestroom said:

    @MonzoPro said:
    It won't be the future, because most people won't sign-up, they'll go for one-off purchases instead.

    Worth a try, though it's the reason I no longer use Adobe.

    You see this is why EWQL do so well with their subscription model, you can jump in and out anytime you want or you can just buy what you want, they of offer mixing and matching of both services

    Yeah good to have a choice. I had to google EWQL as I didn't know what it was - I do like a nice orchestral sample, looks good.

  • @MonzoPro said:

    @thesoundtestroom said:

    @MonzoPro said:
    It won't be the future, because most people won't sign-up, they'll go for one-off purchases instead.

    Worth a try, though it's the reason I no longer use Adobe.

    You see this is why EWQL do so well with their subscription model, you can jump in and out anytime you want or you can just buy what you want, they of offer mixing and matching of both services

    Yeah good to have a choice. I had to google EWQL as I didn't know what it was - I do like a nice orchestral sample, looks good.

    I demoed a fair bit of their stuff when i was subscribed to the service but i had to cancel ages ago

  • edited August 2017 Vote Up0

    Heard from Ulysses central command -

    "Ulysses' old versions will continue working and have been optimized for macOS High Sierra and iOS 11 already. The restore purchases button in the new version, however, is meant for people downloading Ulysses on another device that are already paying for the subscription. Since you are an existing customer, you can get a lifetime discount for the new version. If you would like to refund the old one, please contact Apple directly, as we do not have any customer information."

    This does not tell me how to get back my purchased version. So hopefully Apple will give refund.

    Speaking of Apple, I have to return this iPad Pro, because it keeps turning itself off. Apparently, being past 14 days means it must go to them for testing, before I can get a replacement. So in a few days I may be without an iPad for several days. Not quite as convenient as I'd thought, and will think twice before buying again.

    If I was fit enough, I'd go to the nearest store, raise my voice a little and demand a replacement. And I think I'd get one, 'cause they absolutely hate someone standing there telling everyone in ear-shot that a product is suspect.

  • If you need a good iOS text/Markdown editor, have a look at Editorial from the developer of Pythonista. It can't be compared to Scrivener, but it's good enough for simple tasks such as writing articles and blog posts, and it can sync with Dropbox

    http://omz-software.com/editorial/

  • Hmmmm £4.5 for this that I've never heard of or £6 for MS office 365 incl 1tb of cloud storage....

  • @Zen210507 said:

    Attempting to download from purchased tab results in the new version installing, and that will not restore my previous purchase even when the option is selected. Is that clear enough, or do you want it in big letters.

    I see both versions showing up in my purchase history:

  • edited August 2017 Vote Up0

    @mistercharlie said:
    I see both versions showing up in my purchase history:

    Interesting. What I see is version 11 and version 2.8.3

    Presumably, if I download the latter, and try to update it, the update will be the latest, not the one before subscription. That being number 10.

  • Microsoft Word has been offered as a subscription including for their app for many users now.> @mistercharlie said:

    @Zen210507 said:

    Attempting to download from purchased tab results in the new version installing, and that will not restore my previous purchase even when the option is selected. Is that clear enough, or do you want it in big letters.

    I see both versions showing up in my purchase history:

    @Zen210507 you don't see the older gradient version on your list of purchased apps or if you do you can't download it to your iPad?

    In looking at their website, the developer explicately states you can continue using the old version on iOS 11.

    The developer's response to your email didn't sound very helpful at all. In addition, there are a lot of bad reviews on the App Store complaining of a similar inability to use their previous app and being forced into a subscription. With the ability of developers to respond to user reviews in the App Store, it seemed strange to me that they hadn't taken the time to explain to the reviewer exactly how they can continue to use the older app. I can see how having two almost identical icons for the two apps with the same name would be very confusing for people.

  • edited August 2017 Vote Up0

    Ah, understanding dawns. Just discovered that the 2.8.3 version is the latest before the subscription model, which is version 11. So there never was a version 10. The developers just jumped numbers.

    So, there is access to the old version. Misterchalie was right, I was wrong. But you can see how the confusion arose.

    Still not at all happy about the subscription model, and will not be buying, but at least now I feel that I have a fair deal in terms of what I paid for.

  • @InfoCheck said:
    The developer's response to your email didn't sound very helpful at all. In addition, there are a lot of bad reviews on the App Store.

    >

    If you saw my earlier recent post, you'll know that this confusion has been resolved.

    I must be fair and say that once the issue escalated, Lara at Ulysses HQ was helpful.

  • Being a Scrivener user I have been curious about what Ulysses possibly can bring to the table. Then I found SetApp, which is a subscription service for many apps, of which Ulysses was one. They also run a 30-day trial on SetApp so any app in there can be tried and tested, for free, for 30 days.

    One benefit in all of this, that I noticed almost accidentally, was that if you were running a SetApp trial (and I now subscribe to it, with my LTD company) it also unlocked Ulysses on iOS, via SetApp.

    Having said all of that, I can't find a good use case for Ulysses that isn't already covered by Scrivener.

  • @hellquist said:
    Having said all of that, I can't find a good use case for Ulysses that isn't already covered by Scrivener.

    >

    Yep. Scrivener does a LOT more, and sync properly with Dropbox. Ulysses was always a triumph of style over substance.

    The one thing missing from Scrivener IOS is scrivening mode. Apparently a technical impossibility. At least with earlier iPads. Maybe they'll add it for the second generation Pro's.

  • @Zen210507 said:

    @InfoCheck said:
    The developer's response to your email didn't sound very helpful at all. In addition, there are a lot of bad reviews on the App Store.

    >

    If you saw my earlier recent post, you'll know that this confusion has been resolved.

    I must be fair and say that once the issue escalated, Lara at Ulysses HQ was helpful.

    It's good you've gained access to your app and that staff with the company were helpful.

    Given the significant resistance to the subscription model, it would seem developers would have to dot all their i's and cross all their t's in the transition from a purchase to a subscription model. I would also anticipate subscribers would have a greater expectation of quality user support from the developer as well. It will be interesting to see how the subscription model will develop in the iOS music scene. Until large development companies with complex full featured DAWs decide to commit to iOS, I don't anticipate any developer's having much success with a subscription model.

    The more interesting approach for me would be if a consortium of developers got together to provide access to a suite of apps with a specific level of compatibility. You could purchase the apps separately or go for a subscription model which includes all of the apps.

    In any case, developers would need to provide a user experience compelling enough that people would find it indispensable in their daily workflow. Casual or less frequent users would not find a subscription attractive as a subscription model is more of a commitment than they want to make.

    Perhaps a third approach would be a developer who prices their subscription significantly cheaper than their purchased apps and continues to offer both models. If their business should ever reach the point where it was mostly subscriptions, I wouldn't assume it'd be a good idea to drop the purchase option or vice versa. They're providing their customers with more options. This would seem a tricky road to take as customers may feel betrayed if any adjustments to the relative prices of subscriptions or purchases are made. Sales to encourage impulse buying might induce a feeling of betrayal in current customers while locking the developer into a fixed pricing approach. You may also have the issue of legacy app users expecting the same level of support as current updates of the app receive which would multiply their support workload. There could also be a divide that develops between the expectations of subscribers and purchase customers.

    Purchase developers try to provide a stable app for the lifetime of the app within the constraints of their business priorities. Communicating this road map clearly with their users and following through on their commitment seems like a good business practice.

    Developers who use the subscription model are expected to provide regular updates to create an experience that incorporates more recent technology, features, and changes to iOS or iOS devices in order to justify an ongoing commitment versus a one time purchase.

    I have no problem with developers who decide to use subscriptions or people who decide subscriptions are not something they're interested in. Not really sure why so many people have such a strong reaction to subscriptions beyond the usual stress associated with money though many aspects of human behavior don't make sense to me either.

  • My reaction to subscriptions in this instance is based on the software in question. It is a glorified text editor. It is not Photoshop. It really doesn't have anywhere much to go beyond working with the latest OS.

    Photoshop I understand. A DAW I would understand. I don't understand a text editor.

    Yes, it is up the to the dev to decide on their pricing model. It is up to me to decide whether I reject it. I do.

  • I haven't thought it through but I like the idea of something like a meter in a cab where you pay for the time you actually used it. Maybe at the end of the month you settle up your tab.

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