OT: Subscription strikes again

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Comments

  • tjatja
    edited August 2017

    Windows 7 was and is the best thing after sliced bread :-)

    Stable to no end.

  • @tja said:
    Windows 7 was and is the best thing after sliced bread :-)

    Stable to no end.

    Absolutely. MS never bettered it.

  • @Zen210507 said:

    @rickwaugh said:
    But, what's the succession plan? If Rim or Sebastien say, "Pffffffft", I've had enough, I'm going to go work at Costco, what happens then?

    >

    That would be a rather sad day. But with a little notice we could all keep going with what we already have, which is a lot. Do we really need the next IOS, if the whole music scene here were to collapse. I don't think so.

    The best thing that could happen is someone with power at Apple WAKES UP and realises what they have. IOS could be so much more, and with the kind of promo Apple could throw, would be sure to produce hit recordings. The desktop could, eventually, go the way of the dinosaurs. If only there was the will among those with the power to make it so. Or, an artiste with a big enough profile making an album using IOS.

    Much as I dislike her 'work' if Taylor Swift made a hit single using IOS, everything would change. And waiting in the wings, loads of peeps here....

    They might care. Maybe. A little. Truth is, they are making a fortune off the model the way it is. I'm sure they would like to make everyone happy, but they are more concerned with providing value to the web browsers, the people getting emails and watching cat videos on Youtube, browsing Reddit, Facebook and Instagram, and playing games. That's the folks who buy millions of Apple devices. Not us poor folks trying to be creative. And we're a pain in the ass, because we actually want things to work well. :D

  • edited August 2017

    well written :+1:
    and it's certainly not about storage cost for 'a couple of extra servers', but integrate them into a business process, that eliminated this scenario years ago.
    (when iTunes stopped to sign supposedly outdated backup versions)

    Apple has some serious experience with customers using products for overlong periods of time.
    A local newspaper ran pre-PowerPC machines under MacOS-7 controlling full production lines, while OSX 10.2 and Intel Macs were the current products.
    Not to forget Apple had to burn a forced OSX boot into the hardware to stop people using OS-9.

  • @rickwaugh said:
    I'm sure they would like to make everyone happy, but they are more concerned with providing value to the web browsers, the people getting emails and watching cat videos on Youtube, browsing Reddit, Facebook and Instagram, and playing games.

    >

    Then, as Aldous Huxley postulated, we all drown in trivia. Ultimately, no one questions anything because they're too busy watching some arsehole proving his double figure IQ, or enthralled by the latest overproduced vapid pop hit. Courtesy of the latest pop poppet nailed to the cross of public consumption by Big Media Corp.

    Is this the world Apple really want? Consumer servitude. Where anyone capable of creativity is considered an oddity, not worth catering for. Maybe. For sure, the Left and Right are busy dividing us all, both telling ever greater lies as they tighten the invisible noose around our necks.

    Is resistance futile, or fertile? Can the music we make, make any difference at all? Or are we in a beautiful bubble, that is doomed to burst? I like to think that enough people are waking up from the Matrix, but it's far from certain.

  • Never mind, relax, here's this:

  • @u0421793 said:
    Never mind, relax, here's this:

    Orinoco, an original rebel!

  • Well, as terrible as things allegedly are, I still have some very cool iOS devices and lots of music apps to play with. It didn’t cost me very much compared to what I used to pay for music gear. I know these are consumer multi-purpose devices, and Apple is focused on the majority of their customers, many who are not demanding creative types. I go into each purchase with eyes wide open realizing that some apps I buy and use are probably going to stagnate or go away completely at some point, so getting my money’s worth is about using and producing with them while they’re alive and well. Techno obsolescence is really nothing new for me. And I’m going to continue to dislike some of Apple’s decisions in all this, but I think I’ll still be happy overall. So I guess my sky isn’t actually falling.

  • edited August 2017

    @lovadamusic said:
    And I’m going to continue to dislike some of Apple’s decisions in all this, but I think I’ll still be happy overall. So I guess my sky isn’t actually falling.

    Sure, I think most of us here would agree with your post. In terms of what IOS is to us.

    It's the bigger picture that is of concern. Apple literally has the power to change the world, for the better. Encouraging creativity is just a small part of that. But they seem focussed on squeezing every last cent out of the dopey - albeit majority - end of the market, and catering for the lowest common denominator. It's the modern equivalent to using religion to keep the peasants under control, and at a level where no one ever questions the elite.

  • @Zen210507 said:

    @lovadamusic said:
    And I’m going to continue to dislike some of Apple’s decisions in all this, but I think I’ll still be happy overall. So I guess my sky isn’t actually falling.

    Sure, I think most of us here would agree with your post. In terms of what IOS is to us.

    It's the bigger picture that is of concern. Apple literally has the power to change the world, for the better. Encouraging creativity is just a small part of that. But they seem focussed on squeezing every last cent out of the dopey - albeit majority - end of the market, and catering for the lowest common denominator. It's the modern equivalent to using religion to keep the peasants under control, and at a level where no one ever questions the elite.

    That's a top comment that. Can't really add anything more.

    Your move Apple, what's it to be: nurture creativity or encourage stupidity?

  • edited August 2017

    @MonzoPro said:

    @Zen210507 said:

    @lovadamusic said:
    And I’m going to continue to dislike some of Apple’s decisions in all this, but I think I’ll still be happy overall. So I guess my sky isn’t actually falling.

    Sure, I think most of us here would agree with your post. In terms of what IOS is to us.

    It's the bigger picture that is of concern. Apple literally has the power to change the world, for the better. Encouraging creativity is just a small part of that. But they seem focussed on squeezing every last cent out of the dopey - albeit majority - end of the market, and catering for the lowest common denominator. It's the modern equivalent to using religion to keep the peasants under control, and at a level where no one ever questions the elite.

    That's a top comment that. Can't really add anything more.

    Your move Apple, what's it to be: nurture creativity or encourage stupidity?

    I fully agree, but it's already too late, way too late - we've all been lured by that internet thingy into a total absence of any reasonable thinking. >:)
    Mind control has long taken over, almost unnoticed - honestly, I'm not joking.
    Quoting Lou Reed's Men of Good Fortune ... but me - I just don't care at all...

  • edited August 2017

    @Telefunky said:
    Mind control has long taken over, almost unnoticed - honestly, I'm not joking.

    >

    Forms of mind control are everywhere. People think it's all Manchurian Candidate, drugs and flashing lights. But it's a lot more subtle and pervasive than that.

    What irritates, at times, is how what is essentially 1984's double-speak gets routinely used. To give a recent example, in Charlottesville, the Neo-Nazi thugs are quite rightly condemned. But anyone daring to say some of those on the other side also attended with violent intentions, is instantly branded a fascist sympathiser.

  • @Zen210507 said:

    @Telefunky said:
    Mind control has long taken over, almost unnoticed - honestly, I'm not joking.

    >

    Forms of mind control are everywhere. People think it's all Manchurian Candidate, drugs and flashing lights. But it's a lot more subtle and pervasive than that.

    What irritates, at times, is how what is essentially 1984's double-speak gets routinely used. To give a recent example, in Charlottesville, the Neo-Nazi thugs are quite rightly condemned. But anyone daring to say some of those on the other side also attended with violent intentions, is instantly branded a fascist sympathiser.

    I used to be considered pretty left ten years ago and am now considered as left-leaning middle. My core values haven't changed one bit. I simply stayed put in my position as everybody else moved around me towards a hive mindset.

    For instance, I take into account all news sources to try and find the truth within. Ten years ago, that might've been considered the "smart and intelligent thing to do". These days? It's called diverting from the side of social justice. I considered all news sources about the Charlottesville protests and found out the Neo-Nazis actually got permission to protest the removal of their statue and protested peacefully until the arrival of the counter protestors.

    What I'm not clear on is who started the violence, because one side will always say the other started it no matter what. However, does it really matter who started the violence? Strip away the politics, and the end result is the same no matter who started it, right?

  • edited August 2017

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:

    @Zen210507 said:

    @Telefunky said:

    Strip away the politics, and the end result is the same no matter who started it, right?

    Yes, the end result is the same. But with the media being the way they are, those ordinary, decent Right of centre Americans - who don't hate anyone, they just want jobs and security - are lumped in with the KKK arseholes. Meanwhile, the hotheads on the other side, with their pepper sprays, containers full of urine bombs, and willingness to land a punch, get a free pass.

  • edited August 2017

    On the subject of Apple absolving themselves of any responsibility for withdrawn apps, I got this -


    I hope you allow me your patience to explain the matter at hand. You see, with the iTunes Store, we have Terms and Conditions that states:

    Under REDOWNLOADS

    "Content may not be available for Redownload if that Content is no longer offered on our Services."

    If you want, you can review the said Terms and Agreement using the link I have provided below:

    https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/itunes/uk/terms.html

    We recognize that no one is better qualified to provide feedback about our products and services than the people who use them. I urge you to submit any feedback you have about your issue at our Feedback page:

    http://www.apple.com/feedback

    Thank you for your understanding and patience regarding your issue. In light of the current circumstances I do hope you have a pleasant day.

    Sincerely,

    Benjie Kristofer
    iTunes Store Customer Support

  • edited August 2017

    @Zen210507 said:
    On the subject of Apple absolving themselves of any responsibility for withdrawn apps, I got this -


    I hope you allow me your patience to explain the matter at hand. You see, with the iTunes Store, we have Terms and Conditions that states:

    Under REDOWNLOADS

    "Content may not be available for Redownload if that Content is no longer offered on our Services."

    If you want, you can review the said Terms and Agreement using the link I have provided below:

    https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/itunes/uk/terms.html

    We recognize that no one is better qualified to provide feedback about our products and services than the people who use them. I urge you to submit any feedback you have about your issue at our Feedback page:

    http://www.apple.com/feedback

    Thank you for your understanding and patience regarding your issue. In light of the current circumstances I do hope you have a pleasant day.

    Sincerely,

    Benjie Kristofer
    iTunes Store Customer Support

    Credit where it's due though, for a 'fuck off' it's exceptionally well written and polite.

  • @MonzoPro said:
    Credit where it's due though, for a 'fuck off' it's exceptionally well written and polite.

    Brilliant, for a dog. I refuse to believe that anyone on two legs is called Benjie. :p

  • Apple is a company. Not a person, with morals. It's a large, faceless organization, that is regulated in how it operates.

    As a company, it has obligations, which have nothing to do with trying to save the world. It's required to try and make money. That requirement is the law, as it's publicly traded. If the people running the company make decisions that damage the ability to make money, then it can be sued. Its executives can be replaced by the board of directors, and I'm pretty sure they're not into that; if they screw up badly enough, the board MUST act. Large publicly traded companies do "good things", when those "good things" help the bottom line, or at least, cannot damage it.

    For Apple, iOS is the goose that keeps laying the golden egg. I'm not saying that any of the above proposals would not be good, or would even be that damaging. But tampering with success is always a major crap shoot, and unless they have hard evidence that changing the model is not going to hurt, it's not going to happen. The easiest thing for them to do is just leave it all alone, or make small changes as time progresses.

    I have disliked Apple and their business model since they made their first little cube computers. They damned near went out of business with it back then. Now it's working, big time. Go figure.

  • no way, the Cubes were a bit too ambitious, but far from causing trouble ;)
    The financial decay were the 68k machines (some may remember the pizza boxes) that fit small office use extremely well.
    They were used ad infinitum, never broke, no OS updates required.

    I rember it quite well because I've attended a top executives meeting (sellers and developers) at CeBit Hannover, where they were clueless why it was impossible to establish such a smart system in the industry.
    Apple outperformed everyone those days in total cost of ownership, yet IT departments refused to let any Apple machine enter any large scale office use (dominated by IBM, DEC and the like).

    For good reason: a leadering manager's importance (salary) is directly related to the department's headcount. They'd never introduce a system with maintainance requirements of a quarter or even a fifth compared to their current one. ;)
    That's the way Microsoft grew, and Apple learned the lesson and Adobe too.

  • @rickwaugh said:

    Now it's working, big time. Go figure.
    >

    Easy.

    Apple make the best, most stylish hardware. IOS is way better than however many Android variants there are. Google Play has more shit piled high than the App Store, and the music app/ graphic app content is a joke. Microsoft, cannot even make a decent browser in, what is it now, over a dozen attempts, and Windows 10 is something anyone familiar with PC's wouldn't touch with someone else's bargepole. OSX is a better product, and far less vulnerable. The one good thing MS had was Office, and now that is rental ware!

    Unfortunately, this superiority has bred arrogance. Yes, all businesses are there to make money, but when that business makes more money than entire countries, sheer unrelenting greed is the only reason not to adopt a business model that includes altruism.

    But the circle always turns. As you pointed out, Apple have had spectacular failures in the past. Usually, due to arrogance and misreading the market. Right now they are riding high, surfing the wave of vast success, overcharging at will and taking the piss. But as he who was once the third most famous person in the world put it All Things Must Pass.

  • I am going to use https://www.apple.com/feedback/ for this or that complain

  • @tja said:
    I am going to use https://www.apple.com/feedback/ for this or that complain

    Good luck with that. ;)

  • edited August 2017

    @rickwaugh said:
    Apple is a company. Not a person, with morals. It's a large, faceless organization, that is regulated in how it operates.

    As a company, it has obligations, which have nothing to do with trying to save the world. It's required to try and make money. That requirement is the law, as it's publicly traded. If the people running the company make decisions that damage the ability to make money, then it can be sued. Its executives can be replaced by the board of directors, and I'm pretty sure they're not into that; if they screw up badly enough, the board MUST act. Large publicly traded companies do "good things", when those "good things" help the bottom line, or at least, cannot damage it.

    For Apple, iOS is the goose that keeps laying the golden egg. I'm not saying that any of the above proposals would not be good, or would even be that damaging. But tampering with success is always a major crap shoot, and unless they have hard evidence that changing the model is not going to hurt, it's not going to happen. The easiest thing for them to do is just leave it all alone, or make small changes as time progresses.

    I have disliked Apple and their business model since they made their first little cube computers. They damned near went out of business with it back then. Now it's working, big time. Go figure.

    Aside from making desirable products, the Apple brand focuses on being the creatives choice, a bit hippy, and on not being 'suits' like Microsoft. That's whats attracted such loyal fans, and makes them 'cool'.

    That's gone now. They've had a lot of bad press, so they need to rebuild their brand as the good guys, rather than a bunch of ruthless salesmen like all the rest.

    And they need to do it now.

    Tick, tick....

  • edited August 2017

    @Zen210507 yes, Win-10 is the world's brightest polished turd and OSX is the better product. Imho it's an icredibly great way to cover all the unix shit under a GUI that is in fact 'usable'.
    Yet it's a clumpsy old concept that allows a perfect permanent construction site that will never finish, together with ever increasing resources.
    The humble original MacOS was conceptionally way more sophisticated...
    But it HAD TO DIE for the reasons I mentioned earlier - it made customer's satisfied, not enough urge to upgrade. >:)

  • @Zen210507 said:

    @lovadamusic said:
    And I’m going to continue to dislike some of Apple’s decisions in all this, but I think I’ll still be happy overall. So I guess my sky isn’t actually falling.

    Sure, I think most of us here would agree with your post. In terms of what IOS is to us.

    It's the bigger picture that is of concern. Apple literally has the power to change the world, for the better. Encouraging creativity is just a small part of that. But they seem focussed on squeezing every last cent out of the dopey - albeit majority - end of the market, and catering for the lowest common denominator. It's the modern equivalent to using religion to keep the peasants under control, and at a level where no one ever questions the elite.

    As far as promoting creativity, I think Apple’s products do a fine job, but then I’m just a dopey peasant. I thought I was being creative, but maybe I still need more encouragement from a company that sells phones. :)

  • They did the iPod and iTunes as a proof that digital content CAN be sold over the internet.
    Then they made the mobile phone just right and established tablets.
    It was a risky endeavor and it's profit is well deserved. (the original Macintosh being an even more risky thing, which completely changed computer operation)
    In that sense Apple is a great company, but it changed with dimension of cash flow.
    Naturally, as it's economics, not charity - and still the best overall user experience.

  • edited August 2017

    @lovadamusic said:
    As far as promoting creativity, I think Apple’s products do a fine job, but then I’m just a dopey peasant. I thought I was being creative, but maybe I still need more encouragement from a company that sells phones. :)

    No, what you need - what we all need - is for Apple to recognise and promote IOS music making and apps the way they do the Apple Pencil.

  • edited August 2017

    @Telefunky said:
    Then they made the mobile phone just right and established tablets.

    Then sat back and did not much, aside from accrue unheard of profits then 'innovate' by doing things such as taking away headphone sockets, and introducing a touch bar to laptops that nobody wanted. IPad Pro's have finally come of age, but even those could be improved significantly, if only Apple listened to their users.

    Few companies ever have the combination of wealth, influence and popularity at a level where they could change the world for the better. Yet all Apple can think of, post Jobs, is how many more iPhones they can sell. IPads, MacBooks, Mac Mini, even the flagship Mac Pro, have all suffered because of the obsession with profit, phones and mind numbing poor quality apps. As if they are a much smaller concern, struggling to survive. So the great opportunity is slipping away, a little more each day.

  • Back to the original topic I have been evaluating alternatives. I have Scrivener on my Mac from some bundle deal and it is a bit overkill for my needs so I don't see myself using it on IOS.

    My main repository for notes and code snippets these days on my Mac is the truly excellent Quiver. That now has a viewer on IOS but not an editor. I think one will come sooner or later but I understand the developer to be in full time and demanding employment and not having much time for anything else.

    I went back and looked at Bear again. I tried this when it came out but didn't like the subscription model for cloud syncing. However. I object far more to what I consider 'bait and switch' tactics by Ulysses. Bear launched with a subscription model and didn't try to foist it on existing users later. Fine distinction perhaps, but it is half the price of the Ulysses for existing users or a third of the price for new users.

    I was pleasantly surprised by how much it has progressed. It still has a little way to go to catch Ulysses in functionality and I don't like the tag based document structure. It looks gorgeous though and hammers Ulysses in that department.

    Ulysses has not progressed much at all of late but that is because, IMHO, it doesn't have anywhwere significant left to go.It has always been high priced and has traded a lot on hype and style over substance. I just feel that this is a case of 'let's get the suckers signed up and we can all go off and have a jolly..'. Just my opinion.

  • @lnikj said:
    Ulysses has not progressed much at all of late but that is because, IMHO, it doesn't have anywhwere significant left to go.It has always been high priced and has traded a lot on hype and style over substance.

    Yes. Ulysses, for me, has always been 'emperor's new clothes' and touted itself as being far above what it offers. The lack of progress, for what is not a cheap app, does make me wonder why the devs can't be bothered.

    Attempting to force subscription, at a price to existing users that is about a third more than the original cost, every year, and more than twice the original cost for new suckers, is IMHO a suicidal move.

    FWIW, Scrivener for IOS can be as straightforward or complex as you like, depending on what you want to do. I've also found Notability to be excellent for smaller projects. 1Writer is somewhere in the middle.

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