Finally glad I bought an Akai Force…

StudioES

@ashh said:
Mad that they don't all have screens that can tilt. I chose the X partly because of that. Also because of the QLink knobs. They are nuts.

Oh yeh, those touch-capacitance encoders are probably the best I've used on any music gear in almost 30 years. Their little OLEDs and the Shift + Knobs buttons make editing...everything...so easy.

It has made me understand what these bits of kit are: not a DAW in a box but a workflow in a box.

Hmm, 'workflow in a box', reminds me of the Octatrack. Feels like a toolbox to me, or the McCafe menu at McDonalds. Just kidding.

ashh

@ocelot said:

@ashh said:
Mad that they don't all have screens that can tilt. I chose the X partly because of that. Also because of the QLink knobs. They are nuts.

Oh yeh, those touch-capacitance encoders are probably the best I've used on any music gear in almost 30 years. Their little OLEDs and the Shift + Knobs buttons make editing...everything...so easy.

It has made me understand what these bits of kit are: not a DAW in a box but a workflow in a box.

Hmm, 'workflow in a box', reminds me of the Octatrack. Feels like a toolbox to me, or the McCafe menu at McDonalds. Just kidding.

Yeah but it's about having everything right at your fingertips and using each part over and over until you just reach for it without thinking. Having that in a box is what all grooveboxes are attempting, isn't it?

StudioES

@ashh said:

@ocelot said:

@ashh said:
Mad that they don't all have screens that can tilt. I chose the X partly because of that. Also because of the QLink knobs. They are nuts.

Oh yeh, those touch-capacitance encoders are probably the best I've used on any music gear in almost 30 years. Their little OLEDs and the Shift + Knobs buttons make editing...everything...so easy.

It has made me understand what these bits of kit are: not a DAW in a box but a workflow in a box.

Hmm, 'workflow in a box', reminds me of the Octatrack. Feels like a toolbox to me, or the McCafe menu at McDonalds. Just kidding.

Yeah but it's about having everything right at your fingertips and using each part over and over until you just reach for it without thinking. Having that in a box is what all grooveboxes are attempting, isn't it?

Yes I agree, love em all.

With your X, 2.10, and your modular, have you tried using the DC-coupled outputs on a USB audio interface as CV outputs for your modular? Or something like an ES-8?

Tamir_Raz_Mataz

@ocelot said:

@iansainsbury said:

@ocelot said:

@iansainsbury said:
I had one for about ten minutes shortly after release. Am I right in thinking you're still locked into 4/4 unless you use convoluted workarounds?
That killed it for me.

Yup, disappointing, though building custom metronome patterns for meter changes along with a little math and clip length tweaking ain't too bad.

I need to test if slaving Force to MIDI clock still disables audio recording. 🤬

A device claiming it's “ the ultimate in standalone end-to-end production workflows, complete with every tool you need to produce, remix, mashup and perform your tracks live” should have different time sigs built in. I really wanted to like it. Still, if I hadn’t sent it back, I’d never have ended up discovering other great bits of gear over the past couple of years, so I’m not too upset. I’ve watched a couple of people making odd time signature stuff on the old SP-404 in a more freeform way, and that's piqued my curiosity.

It took Akai 2+ years to deliver what they initially promised at launch. But today we still cannot re-order tracks. Not to mention meter and tempo changes. (Though mine has been powered on nearly 24/7 for almost 2 years and it's had zero issues, other than a few software bugs).

What other bits of gear have you tried since sending yours back?

Re SP-404 MK2, looks like a wonderful evolution, and lightning-quick compared to the Akais. It may kill the SP essence, but all of its new features make me really want a step sequencer, or at least basic MIDI/pattern editing after finger drumming something in on those new velocity pads.

Yah. No reordering tracks on Mpc either. No reordering of sequences. No internal program change either.
But I’m not sure disc streaming would be useful for MPC one as it’s hardisc is limited

Svetlovska

@ervin said:
Can we please stop for a moment and appreciate the old-school scifi beauty of this Jedi-inspired sentence 🎖️

Very droll !

Svetlovska

@iansainsbury said:

@Svetlovska said:
@iansainsbury : what’s a time signature? Asking for a friend.

Boom, bap, boom, bap = 4/4
Bum, plink, plink, bum, plink plink =3/4 (waltz)
bingop, a bing, biff bop, bingop, a bing, biff bop
and
bibble bibble bibble flibberdum, bibble bibble bibble flibberdum, bibble bibble bibble flibberdum, flibberdum flibberdum flibberdum
= Dave Brubeck
That covers most of it

Sorry @iansainsbury . My feeble attempt at wit went by unnoticed. Your Brubeck impersonation on the other hand is excellent.

iansainsbury

@Svetlovska said:

Sorry @iansainsbury . My feeble attempt at wit went by unnoticed. Your Brubeck impersonation on the other hand is excellent.

No, no, I took your comment as a joke, but couldn’t resist the urge to be silly. It’s an urge I struggle to resist daily. Ask my wife.

iansainsbury

@ocelot said:

@iansainsbury said:

@ocelot said:

A device claiming it's “ the ultimate in standalone end-to-end production workflows, complete with every tool you need to produce, remix, mashup and perform your tracks live” should have different time sigs built in. I really wanted to like it. Still, if I hadn’t sent it back, I’d never have ended up discovering other great bits of gear over the past couple of years, so I’m not too upset. I’ve watched a couple of people making odd time signature stuff on the old SP-404 in a more freeform way, and that's piqued my curiosity.

It took Akai 2+ years to deliver what they initially promised at launch. But today we still cannot re-order tracks. Not to mention meter and tempo changes. (Though mine has been powered on nearly 24/7 for almost 2 years and it's had zero issues, other than a few software bugs).

What other bits of gear have you tried since sending yours back?

Re SP-404 MK2, looks like a wonderful evolution, and lightning-quick compared to the Akais. It may kill the SP essence, but all of its new features make me really want a step sequencer, or at least basic MIDI/pattern editing after finger drumming something in on those new velocity pads.

Agreed on the SP-404’s immediacy. Surely some clever AB member will work out the best way to capture midi on an app, edit, and send back to the 404. If I end up getting one, I’d like to use it with my OP-Z, which has my favourite sequencer so far.
As for other gear, I’ve bought and sold a fair amount of it in an attempt to find my way in this hardware world I barely knew existed until a few yers ago. I see the small loss I make when selling on after six months or so as good value in my continuing quest to find electronic instruments that inspire me.
Akai Force, OP-Z, MPC Live, Novation Circuit, OP-1, Synthstrom Deluge…they’ve all come and gone. But the OP-Z came back after I’d learned enough to understand what I had missed first time around. I have an Elektron Digitone Keys, with a sequencer to rival the OP-Z, and an NI Maschine Mk3, which gathers dust as I play with the OP-Z. Oh, and a keystep 37 to use with it. Plus the iPad, of course, which kickstarted this obsession.
I think I’ll sell on the Digitone Keys (barely used, with a couple of nice sound packs, any takers?) and get the SP-404 plus a small (cheap) desktop synth with lots of knobs, so I can attempt to shape a few sounds of my own. Use the iPad primarily as a sound source, but plan to bounce stuff back and forth between the OP-Z, 404, and Loopy Pro or similar.
Don’t know why I wrote you an essay, but it’s done now, so I’ll post it

StudioES

@iansainsbury said:

@ocelot said:

@iansainsbury said:

@ocelot said:

A device claiming it's “ the ultimate in standalone end-to-end production workflows, complete with every tool you need to produce, remix, mashup and perform your tracks live” should have different time sigs built in. I really wanted to like it. Still, if I hadn’t sent it back, I’d never have ended up discovering other great bits of gear over the past couple of years, so I’m not too upset. I’ve watched a couple of people making odd time signature stuff on the old SP-404 in a more freeform way, and that's piqued my curiosity.

It took Akai 2+ years to deliver what they initially promised at launch. But today we still cannot re-order tracks. Not to mention meter and tempo changes. (Though mine has been powered on nearly 24/7 for almost 2 years and it's had zero issues, other than a few software bugs).

What other bits of gear have you tried since sending yours back?

Re SP-404 MK2, looks like a wonderful evolution, and lightning-quick compared to the Akais. It may kill the SP essence, but all of its new features make me really want a step sequencer, or at least basic MIDI/pattern editing after finger drumming something in on those new velocity pads.

Agreed on the SP-404’s immediacy. Surely some clever AB member will work out the best way to capture midi on an app, edit, and send back to the 404. If I end up getting one, I’d like to use it with my OP-Z, which has my favourite sequencer so far.

I'd love to see Roland add a few sequencer bits from their MC-series...their updated step sequencers are pretty clever. I doubt they'll do it ; though maybe if the new SP sells well, they'll make a replacement for the MV8080?

As for other gear, I’ve bought and sold a fair amount of it in an attempt to find my way in this hardware world I barely knew existed until a few yers ago. I see the small loss I make when selling on after six months or so as good value in my continuing quest to find electronic instruments that inspire me.

That's how I learned synthesis and figured out exactly what I wanted, by buying and selling on Ebay back when gear was MUCH less expensive.

Akai Force, OP-Z, MPC Live, Novation Circuit, OP-1, Synthstrom Deluge…they’ve all come and gone. But the OP-Z came back after I’d learned enough to understand what I had missed first time around. I have an Elektron Digitone Keys, with a sequencer to rival the OP-Z, and an NI Maschine Mk3, which gathers dust as I play with the OP-Z. Oh, and a keystep 37 to use with it. Plus the iPad, of course, which kickstarted this obsession.

Nice pieces you've had. You didn't get along with the Deluge? That's one I haven't tried yet.

Elektron - love how their synth engines are tightly integrated with their sequencers - I still remember that 'man-machine potential' from the Monomachine. Wish Elektron would make a new box with the MnM and MD's simplified multi-synthesis engines with the updated sequencer from the DT/DN.

I think I’ll sell on the Digitone Keys (barely used, with a couple of nice sound packs, any takers?) and get the SP-404 plus a small (cheap) desktop synth with lots of knobs, so I can attempt to shape a few sounds of my own. Use the iPad primarily as a sound source, but plan to bounce stuff back and forth between the OP-Z, 404, and Loopy Pro or similar.

OP-Z with its clever step sequencer and the SP for sampling and chopping sounds from the iPad would make a very powerful, compact, battery-powered combo!

Don’t know why I wrote you an essay, but it’s done now, so I’ll post it

Hardware's a lot of fun, but expensive, so I'm grateful for iOS and its wonderful developers making powerful music apps for pennies on the dollar.

StudioES

@Tamir_Raz_Mataz said:

@ocelot said:

@iansainsbury said:

@ocelot said:

@iansainsbury said:
I had one for about ten minutes shortly after release. Am I right in thinking you're still locked into 4/4 unless you use convoluted workarounds?
That killed it for me.

Yup, disappointing, though building custom metronome patterns for meter changes along with a little math and clip length tweaking ain't too bad.

I need to test if slaving Force to MIDI clock still disables audio recording. 🤬

A device claiming it's “ the ultimate in standalone end-to-end production workflows, complete with every tool you need to produce, remix, mashup and perform your tracks live” should have different time sigs built in. I really wanted to like it. Still, if I hadn’t sent it back, I’d never have ended up discovering other great bits of gear over the past couple of years, so I’m not too upset. I’ve watched a couple of people making odd time signature stuff on the old SP-404 in a more freeform way, and that's piqued my curiosity.

It took Akai 2+ years to deliver what they initially promised at launch. But today we still cannot re-order tracks. Not to mention meter and tempo changes. (Though mine has been powered on nearly 24/7 for almost 2 years and it's had zero issues, other than a few software bugs).

What other bits of gear have you tried since sending yours back?

Re SP-404 MK2, looks like a wonderful evolution, and lightning-quick compared to the Akais. It may kill the SP essence, but all of its new features make me really want a step sequencer, or at least basic MIDI/pattern editing after finger drumming something in on those new velocity pads.

Yah. No reordering tracks on Mpc either. No reordering of sequences. No internal program change either.

Yup, still no internal PC on the Force. And no track explode either. So that, plus meter and tempo changes are MPC advantages.

But I’m not sure disc streaming would be useful for MPC one as it’s hardisc is limited

Btw, I'm using a 10-year old HDD inside the Force, and it hasn't been a problem streaming 8 long 32-bit samples in Audio Tracks simultaneously, even with Warp enabled for all streaming samples.

An SD card should be faster than my old HDD. Plus Linux handles disk io much better than Windows, though I'm not sure if that applies to SD cards. Plus Akai mentions in the manual that disk-streaming is recommended only for audio tracks, and not drumkit or keygroup programs, even with SSDs.
Link to changelist.

childofthecorndog

@ocelot said:
@ashh Almost identical.

First thing I did was load a drum loop and test the new Granular, Stutter, Diffuser Delay, and Half Speed effects. Wow, they remind me of my favorite plugins (iDensity, Dedalus, Replicant, Halftime, Fly Tape). No perceptible latency either.

Solina and Odyssey sound very good. Odyssey definitely sounds more '70s analog' than Tubesynth....those beating oscillators and that filter and VCA...

Reminds me of COTCD or BoC!

So many improvements and enhancements!

Humbled, thanks for the shout out!

Yeah recent updates made MPC way more fun for using the internal stuff than prior. Very capable for those kind of sounds now.

Made a big COTCD Expansion that felt like it kinda fell on deaf ears, but the video shows some of the kind of sounds possible now when combine internal plugins w/internal fx. If you fullscreen the video you can see which sounds are plugins/internal fx (a couple are Keygroups, multisampled hardware w/pedals). 🦧

For kicks here’s a code for 40% off, valid for next 7 days 🏄‍♂️ - IDJ5K89M0R

iansainsbury

Akai Force, OP-Z, MPC Live, Novation Circuit, OP-1, Synthstrom Deluge…they’ve all come and gone. But the OP-Z came back after I’d learned enough to understand what I had missed first time around. I have an Elektron Digitone Keys, with a sequencer to rival the OP-Z, and an NI Maschine Mk3, which gathers dust as I play with the OP-Z. Oh, and a keystep 37 to use with it. Plus the iPad, of course, which kickstarted this obsession.

Nice pieces you've had. You didn't get along with the Deluge? That's one I haven't tried yet.

Lots to love about the Deluge, and I think I'd get more out of it now, but—when I did complete a full song on it—I was struck by the fact that I could have done the same thing in a fraction of the time in NS2, or Logic. If you have the time to put in, the Delly (yes, I said Delly) might be the most capable all-rounder, or the MPCs if you gel with their workflow. But the OP-Z hits the sweet spot between immediacy and depth for me (currently), which neither the Delly or the MPC managed.

StudioES

@iansainsbury said:

Akai Force, OP-Z, MPC Live, Novation Circuit, OP-1, Synthstrom Deluge…they’ve all come and gone. But the OP-Z came back after I’d learned enough to understand what I had missed first time around. I have an Elektron Digitone Keys, with a sequencer to rival the OP-Z, and an NI Maschine Mk3, which gathers dust as I play with the OP-Z. Oh, and a keystep 37 to use with it. Plus the iPad, of course, which kickstarted this obsession.

Nice pieces you've had. You didn't get along with the Deluge? That's one I haven't tried yet.

Lots to love about the Deluge, and I think I'd get more out of it now, but—when I did complete a full song on it—I was struck by the fact that I could have done the same thing in a fraction of the time in NS2, or Logic. If you have the time to put in, the Delly (yes, I said Delly) might be the most capable all-rounder, or the MPCs if you gel with their workflow. But the OP-Z hits the sweet spot between immediacy and depth for me (currently), which neither the Delly or the MPC managed.

Good to know. It's UI (tiny text around pads, 4-character display, 4 encoders) might not gel with me, though I've only watched videos.
Need to try the OP-Z again - that 'sweet spot between immediacy and depth' in gear is difficult to find.

StudioES

@childofthecorndog said:

@ocelot said:
@ashh Almost identical.

First thing I did was load a drum loop and test the new Granular, Stutter, Diffuser Delay, and Half Speed effects. Wow, they remind me of my favorite plugins (iDensity, Dedalus, Replicant, Halftime, Fly Tape). No perceptible latency either.

Solina and Odyssey sound very good. Odyssey definitely sounds more '70s analog' than Tubesynth....those beating oscillators and that filter and VCA...

Reminds me of COTCD or BoC!

So many improvements and enhancements!

Humbled, thanks for the shout out!

Yeah recent updates made MPC way more fun for using the internal stuff than prior. Very capable for those kind of sounds now.

Made a big COTCD Expansion that felt like it kinda fell on deaf ears, but the video shows some of the kind of sounds possible now when combine internal plugins w/internal fx. If you fullscreen the video you can see which sounds are plugins/internal fx (a couple are Keygroups, multisampled hardware w/pedals). 🦧

For kicks here’s a code for 40% off, valid for next 7 days 🏄‍♂️ - IDJ5K89M0R

Thanks man, that's generous of you. Planing on getting some of your packs after payday. Love the VHS degradation vibes.

Svetlovska

@childofthecorndog : that discount code did the trick for me: Bought! Looking forward to trying these out on my newly upgraded Force. Thanks!

childofthecorndog

@ocelot my pleasure! thanks in advance 🙏 hope you dig them!

Michael_R_Grant

@ocelot said:

@iansainsbury said:

Akai Force, OP-Z, MPC Live, Novation Circuit, OP-1, Synthstrom Deluge…they’ve all come and gone. But the OP-Z came back after I’d learned enough to understand what I had missed first time around. I have an Elektron Digitone Keys, with a sequencer to rival the OP-Z, and an NI Maschine Mk3, which gathers dust as I play with the OP-Z. Oh, and a keystep 37 to use with it. Plus the iPad, of course, which kickstarted this obsession.

Nice pieces you've had. You didn't get along with the Deluge? That's one I haven't tried yet.

Lots to love about the Deluge, and I think I'd get more out of it now, but—when I did complete a full song on it—I was struck by the fact that I could have done the same thing in a fraction of the time in NS2, or Logic. If you have the time to put in, the Delly (yes, I said Delly) might be the most capable all-rounder, or the MPCs if you gel with their workflow. But the OP-Z hits the sweet spot between immediacy and depth for me (currently), which neither the Delly or the MPC managed.

Good to know. It's UI (tiny text around pads, 4-character display, 4 encoders) might not gel with me, though I've only watched videos.
Need to try the OP-Z again - that 'sweet spot between immediacy and depth' in gear is difficult to find.

I love the Deluge, such an amazing device.

childofthecorndog

@Svetlovska sweet, thanks! Flunked at catching MPC gang’s attention on this expansion when I rushed the release/marketing/promo…after spending months putting it together 🤪 🤯 🔫 Soooooper appreciated and hope you dig it!

You’ll love the firmware update, I was almost 100% ‘samples only’ on my MPC Live prior to it but I use internal stuff A LOT now 🦧

StudioES

Great workflow/overview video, for those interested. Plus this guy's talented! A one-man band, check out his other videos.

stown

@childofthecorndog Wow! That demo of your Dunked collection.... I might have made some different financial choices a year ago if I had heard that (although I am happy with my Hydrasynth)! Love your sound design

tahiche

@ocelot said:
Great workflow/overview video, for those interested. Plus this guy's talented! A one-man band, check out his other videos.

😮 wow. The only thing I don’t like it’s when he says “a little bit rusty”, which is obviously bs!.
The real drums really make a difference. Great stuff! 🤙

childofthecorndog

@stown said:
@childofthecorndog Wow! That demo of your Dunked collection.... I might have made some different financial choices a year ago if I had heard that (although I am happy with my Hydrasynth)! Love your sound design

Thanks man! Hydrasynth looks nice so win/win

128BPM

How are you all doing with your Forces? Still satisfied?

Anybody record vocals on this?
With layers of choir etc…
Is the converters / sound (of the voice) good enough for “pro releases” / label material?

Tamir_Raz_Mataz

Wish they did a force mode on the Mpc.
Or update MPC with:
Ableton project import
Ableton like clip launching and scenes

StudioES

@128BPM Still enjoying and using the Force almost every day. I haven't had GAS for anything else in quite a while. The last few updates were amazing, though a few bugs still remain.

Converters are good, preamps have more gain and are less noisy than my Roland interface, a little flatter frequency response too. Probably not good enough for Mariah Carey, maybe good enough for others.

@Tamir_Raz_Mataz Some folks have hacked both the MPC and Force to run the other's firmware, though of course it's not official.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1705169669660677
https://www.facebook.com/groups/550328948678055
https://www.facebook.com/groups/296222559189064

128BPM

@ocelot said:
@128BPM Still enjoying and using the Force almost every day. I haven't had GAS for anything else in quite a while. The last few updates were amazing, though a few bugs still remain.

Converters are good, preamps have more gain and are less noisy than my Roland interface, a little flatter frequency response too. Probably not good enough for Mariah Carey, maybe good enough for others.

@Tamir_Raz_Mataz Some folks have hacked both the MPC and Force to run the other's firmware, though of course it's not official.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1705169669660677
https://www.facebook.com/groups/550328948678055
https://www.facebook.com/groups/296222559189064

Hi @ocelot

Thanks!
I’m always looking for gear that can cure GAS (even just for a while).
It seems like people are quite satisfied after the last update.

And good to hear your opinion of the converters … I don’t expect Mariah C grade quality 🤪 but would like to be able to make recordings that can be kept all the way ( to the Christmas tree top).

I’ve never worked with MPC’s so I’m a little afraid to have learn a new language. Love grooveboxes.

Thanks

Korakios

Decided to order a Force , not many videos out there but found a channel
that has many excellent (imo) videos showcasing

and tutorials worth mentioning

StudioES

...

StudioES

Saw this on Facebook - looks like the new 3.2 beta adds several new synths and romplers.
Interested in the 4-operator FM synth.

Yalexein

@StudioES said:
Saw this on Facebook - looks like the new 3.2 beta adds several new synths and romplers.
Interested in the 4-operator FM synth.

Yep, the FM synth is the most interesting thing to me. But I would like more features for clip launching, like tempo change. Some efforts to include probability would be appreciated. I do not expect a revolution but tempo change is necessary.