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Congratulations U.S of A (and the World) to your new Government. I for one, are hopeful.
Cheers!
The sun has been out in Oregon since Wednesday!
^^^^^ this ....... but give it time
It won’t happen here. They couldn’t even get close. There’s some credible evidence that the Capitol rioters had help from inside the Capitol. Security was minimal. They had the White House and the Senate in their pockets. It was basically handed to them on a silver platter. They achieved nothing.
They had detailed plans and were actively practicing an armed attack and kidnapping in Michigan. They achieved nothing.
A loud and dangerous as they are as a mob, I don’t see how they could possibly get to the point of having enough control over this country to do what the Third Reich did. Not even close.
Definitely a feeling that there’s hope, particularly with making progress with COVID, and getting back to normality at a reasonable pace.
Yah that is the plus side of so many people packing heat, and I am not really being facetious.
Modern fascism does not happen by way of a stumbling rabble, but by charisma and co-option, technology and acquiescence.
Thats how I like it. Nice, cozy and transparent.
Oh I know, no one does. I think it’s just that huge world events, whether viral or political, are just huge tidal waves that wash away good and bad people alike. This time has given me much more insight into why the good people of their countries couldn’t stop fascist movements in the past.
I’m still so relieved to have President Biden. Not that I think this fixes everything but it is a fucking break and I’m sleeping better that’s for sure 😂 Plus the idea of the little girls of America looking up and seeing VP Harris instead of Trump makes me really happy.
@espiegel123
Thanks for providing clarification on the subject of presidential liability and such.
Agreed there. No one has all the answers, or in many cases, any answers at all. But I have hope that somehow it will all work out.
I have a sneaking feeling that Trump will not get convicted in the senate, but I think that he has caused himself ongoing problems in “business” and that the state investigations by NY are going to get him. As for the people that stormed the Capitol, you can see some elements of the reality that he used them and left them high and dry (or threw under the bus, whichever you prefer) setting in. Because there’s no longer the charismatic cult of personality “leader” on top giving them “permission” to say and do what they want, they will slink away into disorganization and infighting.
With signs that the fervor of what happened less than 3 weeks ago has died down already within congress, the fuel for that by the next election will not be enough to sustain it I think. By then the balance and roster of who is in office in congress may be different too. So I remain hopeful that the good of the country and more pressing issues will grab the focus.
As an aside, I can’t be the only one that finds it funny that the Proud Boys are named after an Aladdin song that the founder said annoyed him and that “Boogaloo” is named after Breakin’ 2, a film not known as one of the finer pieces of work in history...kind of shows where the brains of these folks get ideas from and function in general. Think “NO MA’AM” but not satire...😂
That would depend on who you elected
About that acquiescence.
Listening to a podcast a couple of years ago, I heard a Yale history professor argue that postmodernism is to blame*. She said that it developed as an antidote to the totalitarianism of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, and was used as a mechanism for prying open Big Brother's iron (ideological) grip. A resistance tool. People could deconstruct their way to freedonia.
Now it's been weaponised by Putin and Trump, and we're stuck with a widespread attitude that, "We're enlightened postmodern people and we're just going to accept that there is no such thing as absolute truth, it's all a matter of perspective." A lot of people have just given up.
I'll note that Biden's Catholic.
*She's written about it, if anybody's interested in the 4000 word version.
https://www.eurozine.com/a-pre-history-of-post-truth-east-and-west/
Interesting article, @colonel_mustard, but I don't think so, really. Trump believes what suits him, but the reasons are far more psychological than philosophical - the need to be right and to win, probably at least partly due to his relationship with his father, if what Mary Trump says is true. He is unable to believe anything that is a threat to his ego or his bank balance. If anything, the positive thinking movement of Norman Vincent Peale has more to answer for than Derrida or Foucault do.
Many Conservative Christians believe in 'the good lie' - Trump is tolerable because he will further the Conservative anti abortion etc agenda. The end justifies the means. Many Trump supporters, including Mike Pence, are religious, and do believe in absolute truth. They tolerate lies in the service of what they, deludedly, see as a higher truth. Jordan Peterson, idolised by many on the right, is opposed to postmodernism, even if he doesn't really seem to understand it properly.
It's true we have a fragmentation of narratives but that also is largely due to the way that social media puts people in an echo chamber built by their 'thumbs-ups', view counts and watch times.
Thing is, I think the postmodernists are right, at least to some extent. To take a simple example, the world looks and smells very different to a human, a bee and a dog. That's not to say we can't agree that some representations of reality seem pretty accurate - if science was nonsense, technology would not have the power it does. But when it comes to society and politics, questions of truth are more complex than those of physics, and always have been.
I think certain strands of Christianity bear a lot more responsibility for what is going on in America today than postmodernism does. There is no shortage of people in America today who fervently believe that they are in possession of the absolute truth. And more than anything, the problem is inequality. If America had better wealth redistribution, we wouldn't be seeing half these problems, including the rise of white supremacy movements, that we're seeing today.
@Gavinski @colonel_mustard Good chatter and food for thought this foggy Sunday wherein I find that I am largely right while having forgotten as regards what precisely, but still.
I know, irony kills.
I live in the Bible Belt, and can say that I see this daily - the stubbornness behind beliefs here makes people stick to their guns (sic) on any subject, no matter how implausible, and they bury their heads in the sand when confronted with inconvenient truths.
It’s entirely pointless having any kind of discussion with most people here as they have no desire to listen to the other side of the argument.
Well said. And the Al Bundy reference is both true and hilarious 😂
Both of these points are so true. People have defined their entire identities around these beliefs. They can’t just “wake up” and turn over their belief system and friends and identify all at once. After all, faith is the belief in something without proof. How can anyone fight that?
Give them proof of what they believe, then gradually introduce downsides and stuff they don’t like until they abandon it of their own accord.
Rejoice! God exists! He’s coming to visit us! By the way, he’s black, supports free healthcare, wants you to give up your guns and reserves the right to impregnate your women..., but hey, you love God, right?
People’s beliefs are exploited by politicians looking for the weaknesses in those systems - it happens all around the world rather than just here in the US.
I’m just glad we now have a President who (at least on the surface) doesn’t seem to have an agenda of manipulation.
You obviously haven’t traveled much if you think this is limited to the US.
https://media0.giphy.com/media/pPhyAv5t9V8djyRFJH/giphy.gif
Why do you hate the USA so much?? I’m curious
Religion is not the sole cause of toxic belief systems. Many who are religious believe n science and secular humanism. Religious extremists are not more religious than non-orthodox, non-extremists. Nationalism and ethnocentrism are also exploitable.
It is the easy way out to blame leaders for people choosing to believe them. People often are quite willing to be lead astray and bear some responsibility for their own choices.
Would better education help? To a degree. And to the degree that it is true it is probably not a simple matter of better science education (though that would be a great start).
It can’t be forgotten that one of the most evil and methodically racist regimes in history was in a country considered to be intellectually elite whose culture was revered by those that considered themselves cultured and educated. It’s ideology was not rooted in religion...and in fact dressed itself up as being rooted in science. And much of what ails the U.S. is descended from that view of the world.
While many evils have been perpetrated in the name of religion, just as many have been the fruit of other allegiances. Much evil committed in the name of religion owes as much to ethnic or national allegiances.
So, let’s not fool ourselves into thinking religion is singular in regards to leading people astray.
Humans have a natural and exploitable bias to distinguishing between themselves and other. That tendency is our weakness. And awareness of it is the only way to combat it.
Over-adherence to any ideology is usually a bad thing, it skews values, upends priorities and fosters prejudices. I subscribe to the view that no one ideology has all the best answers.
Max23. Thanks for your posts especially since ,Darwin and education,- they sum it up for me. Had to laugh when you were asked why you Hate the USA nothing could be further from truth ,although I don’t know you personally,- your activity on this forum apply demonstrates this is an illusion. greenie