Audiobus: Use your music apps together.
What is Audiobus? — Audiobus is an award-winning music app for iPhone and iPad which lets you use your other music apps together. Chain effects on your favourite synth, run the output of apps or Audio Units into an app like GarageBand or Loopy, or select a different audio interface output for each app. Route MIDI between apps — drive a synth from a MIDI sequencer, or add an arpeggiator to your MIDI keyboard — or sync with your external MIDI gear. And control your entire setup from a MIDI controller.
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AUM / Audioshare file storage and backups
Hi all,
Just joined the forum, but I've been messing around with the iPad music apps for a few years now. It was never the centerpiece of my music making setup, but with the new speedy processors it seems to me that AUM plus a bunch of AUv3 synths and effects can act as a powerful dawless setup on its own.
So, before I start transferring gigabytes of samples from my computer I want to properly understand how AUM and Audioshare manage disk space (and backups). My understanding of the workflow is that I first transfer the files into Audioshare and then these get stored under the "Audioshare files" tab in the files app. When I load any of these files into AUM's file player, they are just referenced and not copied into AUM's own folder. Similarly, if I "record" an AUM session, the audio file is placed under Audioshare and not AUM. Do I have it right so far?
Now, what happens if another app, say Koala or Patterning, imports a piece of audio from Audioshare. Are the files copied or just referenced?
This leads me into the second question, which is about backups. If Audioshare is the so-called container for all audio files on my iPad, then I could backup my sample library from there and be done. If not, all other apps would need to be backed up separately. How do you guys deal with backups in practice?
And finally, iCloud... Apple prides itself on being intuitive and easy to use, but all this iCloud business is darn confusing. If I include AUM and Audioshare in the iCloud backup, what is actually being stored in iCloud? I saw some posts about double-counting the files and I'm a bit reluctant to transfer large sample libraries before I figure out what impact it will have on the available space on my iCloud account. If AUM is just storing the sessions and Audioshare is storing the audio files on the iPad itself, then I would expect the iCloud backups to be the same. But is that really the case?
That was a lot of questions for the first post, sorry! 
Comments
@umutgokcen Just a little note on iCloud backups. iCloud backs up your device, not the individual apps. You can only use it to restore your entire device, not to recover individual apps or files. So, including big gobs of data in the backup is kinda pointless. It makes more sense to archive/share data content using iCloud Drive, or some other cloud service (or on your computer, of course).
Hey, thanks for the reply. I am aware that iCloud can only restore the whole device, but I don't quite understand why you say it is pointless to include data (i.e., sample library) in the iCloud backup. If my iPad were to break down or got stolen or something, I would lose all my projects along with their respective audio files.
I use Airdrop to transfer files back and forth and I suppose that can be considered a kind of backup. But that is not something I do every day, so the automatic iCloud backup appeals to me.
Regarding samples. Each app is an individual sandbox, so they are copied from one to another, and eat up space on your device. 😆
That’s not how files work in iOS. Unchanged file copies on the same device generally point to the same data and don’t duplicate it. AudioShare’ is a file provider which is kind of like a separate disk (which is not true of the regular app sandboxes).
There is some evidence that even with file providers the data isn’t duplicated, but I am not sure if we know that 100% for sure since the OS makes it a little tricky to find out. @wim May know more definitively.
Pretty sure, if I have the same sample in Gadget, Patterning, and Audioshare, they all take up room if I 'share' them from one to another.
Welcome to the forum, @umutgokcen!
Thanks! I am even more confused now
If files are being duplicated when copied and pasted from Audioshare, then what is the point of having Audioshare in between? I could transfer the samples directly to the app via Airdrop or iTunes file sharing.
How are you determining that the copies all take up the full amount of storage as the original?
It is important to understand that when you look at the storage stats for an app, it will show the full storage amount of the data the occupied by the files. If 8 apps all reference the same file, you might assume because of that report that each file takes up the full amount of storage -- even if they don't.
If you have a lot of copies of files in different apps, you can find that the total amount of storage used by individual apps significantly exceeds the amount of storage on the device.
See this article:
https://www.cultofmac.com/649268/duplicate-files-sizes-ios-file-providers/
I guess we need this in the wiki. This topic comes up pretty often
I've started a stub article on the wiki -- if someone has a few minutes, it would be great if you could add some details to the article.
https://wiki.audiob.us/doku.php?id=file_storage
@espiegel123 I read the cultofmac article you referenced but it seemed inconclusive to me. According to iTunes, copied files do not take up extra space but according to iPad's own storage stats they do. Is it common knowledge around here that iPad's storage numbers are not to be trusted?
I checked the iPad storage for AUM and Audioshare and surprisingly they show up together as Kymatica AB. I guess that's a good thing cause at least I know that audio files will not be duplicated among these two. But then, under iCloud backup they show up as two separate apps!
If the developer is around maybe he can drop a few lines of explanation on how all this works....
Yes, it is common knowledge the the iPad storage stats can be misleading. If you add up the amount of storage that different apps are using, you will find that it can exceed the capacity of the device. This is because it considers each clone of the file as using the full amount of data. In a way that makes sense. If one of the clones changes then the file would use up that amount of storage.
You will find much discussion of this on the forum if you do a search. You will find some in-depth discussions trying to get to the bottom of whether files copied to Audioshare really have their data copied or not. I don't know that we have 100% certainly on that topic. I think @wim has done some digging on that.
AudioShare and AUM share storage -- it allows AUM to record audio into the Audioshare directory. A developer may group their own apps as part of an app group if they would like. That is a separate issue from how the files are backed up. The Audioshare backup includes the files in the Audioshare directory but not the files that show on 'On My iPad' in AUM's folder. Similarly, AUM's backup does not include the files in the Audioshare directory.
I won't try to convince you that this is true. I'll just lay out what has been reported consistently here over the last few years. I get tired of digging up the references every time this comes up, so I'm not going to do that here. You can take my word for it, or do some searching or your own tests.
I do think I'll write up a wiki article with all the references some time since this comes up all the time. Not today though.
Apple's own documentation of the iOS file system claims that multiple copies do not take up additional physical storage. Multiple people over several iOS versions have reported doing tests by copying large files and comparing overall storage reported on the device, and have observed no change in overall device storage.
Individual apps each report the space increase, but the overall storage doesn't increase. So a file is counted in each app that sees it, but is only counted once in the overall storage. Does this mean Apple's reporting numbers aren't to be trusted? No. It only means that you have to understand how they work.
If app A, B, and C each reference the same file, that file is physically stored only once. It only increases the overall storage space reported on the device once. However, it increases the reported storage of app A, B, and C. If you add up the storage from those devices, the file is counted three times.
If you delete the file from app C, overall storage isn't affected but app C reported storage goes down. If you delete it from B, the same thing happens. Finally, when you delete it from A, the overall storage goes down.
This includes Audioshare. There was some assumption that since Audioshare is a "file provider" that these rules don't apply. Reported tests that I trust confirm that.
It's a common question and hard to accept that it really works this way, I know. ✌🏼
P.S. iCloud backup may not behave the same way. I'm not sure, but from what I've read from others I suspect it may store files more than once. I don't know how to test that one. I don't worry about it. I just pay the whopping extra $2.99 a month to not have to worry about it.
Yeh, I will do that. I end up writing a book every time the subject comes up. This definitely needs to be documented with references. Thanks for creating the stub. 😎
Thanks for your deep diving. For a start, we could just add links back to the various deep dives already found on the forum -- and maybe some kind soul will massage that into a proper article
You can definitely do that. Audioshare was introduced to fill the gap before the files app and "share sheet" were introduced. There is more overlap between it and newer iOS features now.
It does add some handy features as a repository for audio files, especially in an iOS only environment.
There may be other reasons to consider it. Those are the ones I use the most.
OK, I get that. What really matters for me is the overall storage so I don't have to worry about copying/pasting from Audioshare to other apps.
Confirm what? That these don't apply to Audioshare or that they do?
I have been doing some tests with iCloud backups and going with what iPad tells me what the next backup size is going to be, it seems that if either AUM or Audioshare is included in the backup you get the size of your sample library in Audioshare. This is consistent with just one entry of Kymatica showing up in device storage, but potentially confusing because AUM in the Files app only includes the session files. If both are included in the backup the size stays the same, which confirms that files are not being duplicated (hurray!).
But here's another point of confusion: after the backup if you check the reported size of AUM and Audioshare included in the backup, you will see that they are duplicated. That is not what is happening on iCloud. Similar to what you were saying about individual app sizes exceeding the overall device storage, adding up all the reported individual app backup sizes exceeds the overall backup size.
Overall, I can see the logic of what Apple is doing. It is trying to be as efficient as possible with device storage and iCloud backups, not duplicating files unless it absolutely has to, but when it comes to reporting it is treating each app as its own thing.
The tests confirmed that copying a file to AudioShare is just like any other app, the file is only physically stored once.
Thanks for doing those tests with iCloud backup! That is good to know. I’m copying @tahiche on this as one of those who suspected the storage is actually duplicated for each file copy in iCloud backup.
I think this has been covered before, but IMO it’d be great to have an option to have AUM sync to iCloud Drive. I have hundreds of quick ideas created on my iPhone - it’d be lovely if they were all available on my iPad without having to airdrop them all individually.
AudioShare is another matter as it has potentially very big files I guess. I’d be happy for it to use iCloud Drive as well but I know lots of people are against that.
@gregsmith You have a good point, iCloud drive would be useful if want access to the same files on multiple devices. I have not tested this yet, but my guess would be that even if you only put AUM on there it would still include the files in your Audioshare library. That's what happens in iCloud backups.
I will report back after I test some of these options.
I think this is particularly well implemented in audiolayer, although admittedly I barely use the app anymore. You can create a preset on one device, then on another device you can see all the presets and hit download to sync it if you wish. This includes samples in the preset.
Thanks @wim !.
This is such a confusing subject. We did discuss this and after many tests and comments in other posts I’m sure that duplicated files do not take up more space in the iPad file system, they point to the same data, (symlinks).
But, as @umutgokcen points out, reporting is all over the place.
iCloud has its own quirks. I’m writing from memory here:
iCloud backups copy whole the iPad content, but you can’t recover specific app content. You need iCloud Drive for specific app data. So if you have, say 50GB of samples that you want to backup in Drive, you’d take up 100gb in iCloud, 50GB for iCloud Drive and 50GB for the iPad iCloud backup. That really eats up space and unless you pay for the 200gb you can’t do both.
Overall I find it messy, inefficient and a pain.
if you have imported the same sample to various apps (comment on that below) I’m afraid iCloud Drive will take up more space, copying that file to each app’s drive space, (I’m not sure, but makes sense).
The “sandboxed” per-app data thing is pointless and a headache. Drambo, Zenbeats, or whatever app should be able to use a sample from any directory without importing again and again, This includes being able to access files on an external drive without having to import them. With AUV3 and the current workflow in iOS, where apps are interconnected, this sandbox thing is just absurd and backwards.
Annoying, inefficient, and inconvenient, yes. However, I find it easy to understand when put in the perspective that iOS is an operating system evolved from a phone that is working its way toward being a computer. It's not an operating system evolved from a computer that has been scaled down to work on a phone.
Also, in Apple's eyes, iOS music apps are waaaaayyyyyy down the food chain in terms of number of users and revenue stream. And the subset of people that use music apps, who care about these level of issues is a fraction of those.
The motivation on Apple's part is nowhere in the ballpark of the expectations of people like those on this forum.
I'm not excusing it, just explaining some of the reasons why I think it's so. I don't let it bother me. Stressing about it doesn't change anything, and all in all, the tradeoffs are worth it, so I just roll with it.
“ iOS is an operating system evolved from a _phone”. You’re right.
BUT then there’s the “PRO” tag (and prize), plus the “meet your next computer” slogan. So the “it’s a big phone” doesn’t really apply anymore since they’re selling it as a serious work tool.
These file issues are, in my opinion, too limiting and evident on day to day situations to just “bear with”.
I have no idea about what kind of changes and effort it would take to fix this “sandboxes” situation.
I have done some more testing and here's what I found (probably old news for the experts on this forum but might be useful for newcomers like me).
iCloud drive is separate from the iCloud backup, but is included in the iCloud backup so it eats into your storage space. Thank you Apple for making the terminology so bloody confusing! There is no way to force individual apps to store their data on the iCloud drive rather than the device itself, so whatever you copy and paste there is literally a duplicate. My view on this is that unless you are juggling projects back and forth between different hardware devices you do not need it. I prefer to use the iCloud backup (not the iCloud drive) just in case something goes wrong with my iPad or iPhone (broken, stolen, etc.).
Sandboxing also creates duplicates. I imported samples from Audioshare into Samplr, Koala, and Patterning, and in each case new files were created in the Files app and the iCloud backup size went up. So, the idea of using Audioshare as a central depository is a no-go. The easiest method is to Airdrop the samples from your computer (assuming it's a Mac) directly into the app you want to use. Of course if you are using the iPad the create the sample library then Audioshare would be quite useful.
Audioshare and AUM are great companion apps and the fact that they do not create duplicates between each other is as it should be. However, if they were designed from the ground up today I think it would make more sense to have them as one app, not two.
No problem. I’m sure if you stress enough about it, Apple will step up their game much faster. Thanks for taking this on.
✌️
@umutgokcen don't trust the reporting on iCloud. As I mentioned before with AUM and AudioShare, the reporting is wrong. I have a 50GB iCloud plan, if files were duplicated taking up space they wouldn’t fit. iCloud backup is supposed to be an image or snapshot of your iPad so if duplicated files on your iPad are pointing to the same physical data (symliknks kindof) it only makes sense that’s the case on the backup as well. That’s for iCloud backups, ICloud Drive is a different mess.
@wim you mentioned that iPad music was “marginal” in their business model, that makes sense. But wouldn’t this mess also apply to video editing, images, and so on?. I’m sure they also use multiple apps and run into the same file “sandbox” problems.
Getting rid of the sandbox system would mean being able to access files directly on an external drive. It’s logical that would be the case. There you go, less upgrades, longer lasting iPads, less iCloud subscriptions...
I think even if you add users of those kinds of apps you don't get anywhere near mobile devices' core market. I've no data to back that up. Just look at what they flog the most on the App Store though. If I remember correctly, not a single music making app even made the "best of 2020" list. It was all games 'n shit.
Exactly. Motivation is low to do otherwise. They reluctantly do only what they have to. It will continue to improve, but very slowly. I just accept it for what it is and enjoy what I have, which to me, is nothing short of amazing.
I think people underestimate how much improved life is for many people because of sand boxing. People that understand how file systems work (I,e, the people for whom sandboxing is a pain) are a pretty small segment of users of both mobile and desktop devices.
It is wrong to think that iOS has sandboxing because of limitations of the early phones compared to desktop devices. Apple tried to move impose sandboxing on MacOS after they saw how many problems it solved for both security and user confusion.
I don’t recall which OS beta cycle it happened in (I think at least 10 years ago), developers basically said “no way” when Apple tried to enforce an announced sandboxing restriction that would have been a real nightmare.
Sandboxing can be super annoying to deal with...but I get the sense that people don’t realize that there are some benefits they don’t recognize. The security benefits are not trivial. (Things are really bad out there in terms of bots looking for and documenting any device they can find.)
I am not a developer nor do I know anything about operating systems, but as a musician I think there are benefits to sandboxing as a concept.
I've been using Logic ever since Apple acquired Emagic. Missing audio files were a huge headache in the early days. You really had to keep track of where all the audio files were, be they samples or recordings you have made. At some point Logic started copying imported audio files into its own project folder and turning the project into a "package". That allowed you to easily move projects between computers and backup to external drives. Whether the files are actual duplicates or symlinks behind the scenes is besides the point. It's efficient workflow at the user interface level.
Many iOS apps started their life as standalone apps so sandboxing at the operating system level and what the user saw was in agreement. But today we have a mishmash of beatmakers, DAWs, plugins, synths and audio processors, so I think it's the developers' responsibility to come up with the best file management system.
Let's take Koala for example. It has sampling, sequencing, fx, and extensive audio export options. It makes sense that all the samples get saved alongside the project for easy transport and backup. If the files from my sample library are getting duplicated, so be it. If not, even better!
But if I take something like Borderlands which is a fancy sample player, I would rather have it reference the audio files. It would be super weird if, say Kontakt on your desktop, "imported" all your sample library into its own directory structure.
AUM is an interesting case. It is not a sequencer or a DAW but still has the concept of a "session", so I expect it to save all the referenced files, but it doesn't. If you record your session then that goes into the Audioshare directory rather than the AUM directory, which is counterintuitive.
Here's my suggestion if the developer is listening: AUM should incorporate the basic functionality of Audioshare (file browsing, audio export) and be able to stand on its own. And if Audioshare is going to be the sample library manager it claims to be, then any third-party app that allows import from Audioshare should just reference the files.