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Hardware grooveboxes vs ipad
I’m starting to look at hardware grooveboxes like the Roland MC101 or the Novation Circuit and was wondering about other people’s experience of using them vs an iPad. Do these things bring anything to the table?
Comments
Most definitely! You can't under estimate having hands on controls IMVHO, or a physical interface that responds to things like velocity. Adds a whole new level of expression.
Both of those are great devices, but I think in that price range I'd go with the circuit since you really can't tweak the sounds on the 101 that much.
I have a Circuit, Electribe 2, Rm1x and the hands on experience can’t be beaten when jamming in my experience.
They can sequence the iPad if you wish. Circuit is a great controller and sequencer for the iPad, although only 2 synth channels, so you’ll have to do away with the internal sound/s or layer with the iPad output
No reason not to use both, all you need is a midi Connection
The problem with hardware is that they are instant abandonware.
The great thing about hardware is that it remains more or less constant, and know where you are with the midi implementation – iOS midi can be a law unto itself at times!
When I sold my Electribe 2, I bought Grooverider GR16 and copied all of my patterns over to it. I realised what a great iOS groovebox GR16 actually is. So much easier to edit than the hardware it was emulated from!
Finally FINALLY acquired a Novation Circuit. As I was telling @RUST( i )K it is the most fun piece of hardware I have ever had. It is a thing that they just got right and continue to support. I'm still learning it but man, I cannot recommend it enough.
I do love Novation. If anyone has a UltraNova they are not using and wish to trade for something let me know.
Does that concept even make sense with dedicated hardware?
I've got a Novation Circuit. I got one and then sold it a month later because it seemed like it was quite limiting but I've actually bought one again and now I'm using it as a midi controller and sequencer and also playing it live and really enjoying it.
Funnily enough, I had an email from Novation about a week ago with a link to a survey asking all sorts of questions about the Circuit and how I use it. From the questions they asked, it seemed to me that they are working on a new one.
The Mono Station has the same sequencer and a really nice synth but, obviously, it's not a groovebox.
Hmm, you just need to look at how many updates the Novation Circuit and Synthstrom Deluge have had to know this isn't really true. The Deluge got a new update today which I'm yet to try out!
So so so want a Deluge. I am definitely getting one. Is that the 3.1 update?
MC-909 still needs an update to fix serious bugs. Never gonna happen. Abandoned a few months after launch.
If an app has a problem, just notify the dev and it will be fixed.
If not, just use another app.
I still love my analog machines though.
PAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
Wait, are you genuinely serious?
Yes. I’ve been using hardware almost 30 years.
You don’t have to believe me.
You can just dive in and learn from your own regrets.
Which 909 bugs? I don't have one, but curious.
Most of the grooveboxes I use are on iPad. More configurable in some cases.
Serious bugs that make it almost unusable, especially for live sets.
e.g. Decay and reverb “tails” are cut when changing patterns, also the midi clock is still -0.3bpm out of sync from the displayed bpm. This also causes havoc with tempo synced FX etc. when connecting to midi clock of other units.
It does not.
Back on topic: I love the OP-Z. It’s much nicer to use than any software, iPad or Mac, and I get way more done on it than in any apps. The results always end up in a DAW for arrangement, EQ etc, but I prefer hardware so much that I’m not really interested in music apps any more, except for effects.
Nothing beats true tactility. iPad sounds great and can do a lot but that hands on, in the moment tactility is unbeatable. Hardware also doesn’t prompt emails or iMessages while you’re jamming which is awesome.
Yes, it dropped last night I think. I haven't even had a chance to try out all of the features from the 3.0 update!
Same here. I use some synths as a sound module and fx in AUM. OP-Z is pretty great once you get to know it,
Uninstall those apps from your iPad and turn off notifications.
I’ve had tons of them over the years and migrated completely to iOS. Every one has its shortcomings, but some are very good. The problem is once you have one, you will want another to go with it, and before you know where you are there is cables , wires and connectors everywhere... and you still aren’t completely happy 😟
I decided a while ago that the lack of satisfying results that I was getting was not down to the equipment but my own workflow needing attention, and it was true - thankfully after many years of effort I am genuinely getting there. I am continuously binning material- but it’s getting better and quicker to make it, its becoming real fun again. I won’t go back to hardware - there is always something new coming out for a few quid that you can easily factor in and experiment with on iOS.
Imagine the size of room you would need to cram in all the gear you have in your iPad.... not to mention those cables.
If you want some hardware I would suggest a KORG Kaoss Pad 3+ to compliment your iPad
Drambo plus AUM will blow them away. IOS isnt a sound module anymore.
If it means you get bored of a hardware box relatively quickly compared to the options on an iPad, then I agree with @jolico. I had exactly the same experience with the Deluge and the Octatrack. I had a lot of experience with both devices, but after using groovebox apps like Jamm Pro and Dhalang and touch instruments like Gestrument and Touchscapem and Ampify's launchers with pre-fabbed sound packs, I dumped the hardware boxes and have never felt any desire to go back--and the OT is notorious for its users reacquiring it multiple times. I've used lots of other physical grooveboxes, and @Tarekith makes the good point about tactility, but my new max-size iPad Pro is really, really tactile. You do sacrifice velocity sensitivity, which is a major drawback, but the 10-point multipoint touch you gain beats the 2-4 simultaneous operations you can do on a physical box, so I'm down to just one of those because it's a monster. And my OT and Deluge weren't touch sensitive, something I think could be built into the Deluge, but would send that device's price a lot higher.
Tactility and touch sensitivity get into real instrument playing, so it's a very personal, experience-based, evolving decision. You can't know without having a few of these devices in your hands and living with them. Coming from acoustic instrument playing, I've discovered that the extra tactility of physical electronic devices offers little over the latest, biggest iPad because velocity sensitivity of devices like the MPC is next to useless for live jamming: they're not sensitive enough, making you wack the pads rather hard so that you devote too much of your hand-energy to not enough musical effect. They're functional, but don't feel like an instrument you can just jam out on for extended periods like a piano or guitar or sax. I regularly use a MIDI controller that's completely engineered and optimized for touch sensitivity--one hand floating over it gives you five "drumsticks" with full dynamic response using low kinetic energy so that when I go over to any other touch sensitive box like an MPC, it's like jamming in a straitjacket. The difference is that these physical grooveboxes have to reduce touch response greatly in order to eliminate crosstalk between the pads, and my big, heavy, expensive, one-purpose controller is all about 100% reliable isolation of its super-sensitive triggers. For me, then, the 10-point instant touch response of the 2020 iPad Pro--and no previous model--is a lot better than a physical groovebox because neither of these devices provides me usable velocity sensitivity anyway.
You can't really know without having these things in your hands, and I know from experience that the popular devices are all quite nice and worth trying out. So buy them all!
You’re so clever, how did I not consider this.
It’s very much up to the user. I personally do not consider a flat pane of glass to be tactile at all. Of course you can use a midi controller.
Sure the iPad isn’t just a sound module but that’s all I want from it. That’s the thing, it has enough flex for it to be what you want it to be.
If you use it as your only production studio tool you run into walls in several different areas and the workflow becomes clunky for me. That is my experience, not saying everyone will feel the same.
No it doesn’t. I’m using an EMU E4XT Ultra with the last OS (EOS 4.7). Circa 2001 (????). The idea of endless development is actually silly IMO. Stop nitpicking and make music. As long as there are no show-stopping bugs, focus on the music. The best part about it is that you actually LEARN the machine. I’ve been using this sampler since it first came out (and used the previous versions). I can literally navigate it with my eyes closed. I know every page. Every parameter.
I definitely love AUM + AUv3’s + Cirklon sequencing the whole thing, but a static system has a certain freedom to it. No more chasing the dragon. Just ideas and execution.
Talk about chasing expensive dragons that will be garbage in 6 months, but we defend them because we paid for them.
Also, I’m not saying that the corporations selling these products are evil. That’s just how hardware works. New model out in a few months, then our pride and joy becomes their “legacy” model and all support is dropped.
We have apps that can each do more than any groovebox.
Grooveboxes are full of limitations. Maybe that helps with our creativity.
Yo @cyberheater
There are a lot of very one sided answers by folks that have been jaded by their own very personal experiences and GAS tendencies that aren't applicable to everyone. IMO, a groove box is nice because the invaluable element of tactility trumps almost everything else. Pushing buttons and turning knobs ads to the experience like playing a keyboard or pulling a string on an instrument.
I'd say for you to dive in, try one. Go with the Novation Circuit because it's such a swiss army knife (2 polysynths, 4 part drum, OR a helluvuh sequencer), all customisable via desktop software.
Instead of GB vs iPad, how about GB & iPad. Again, the Circuit is a great option to sequence apps and probably run 1 synth voice into the iPad via an interface.
At the end of the day, try and explore, don't be too jaded by other people's experiences. The limitations of a GB may bring incredible inspiration. Just ask the girl in my profile pic sitting with the 505 on her lap.
My 2cents
“Garbage" in what way? It’s really coming across like you think that any piece of music gear that isn’t being constantly updated with new features isn’t worth the money you paid for it, which seems like an absurdly entitled position to me.