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What time signature is this?

I’ve always found it hard playing in time but love making up nonsense on my guitar. I’ve been messing with this little intro / thing and want to develop it but can’t get my head round whether it’s just a weird 4/4 or that I’m naturally going for a different time signature... the loop is a bit gippy too, any pointers appreciated 😁

https://soundcloud.com/christian-krupa-1/gm-loop-what-is-it

Comments

  • It's a straight 4/4 with some accent on the 16th hit so it does sound a bit unconventional.

  • edited May 19

    Nice sounding rhythm guitar loop! Might try to add a pad and a lead to that later :)
    This sounds like straight 4/4 130 bpm or so. I think it's dotted 1/4 note-dotted 1/4 -dotted 1/4-dotted 1/4- 1/8-1/8-1/8-1/8.
    Or [1 and 2] [and 3 and] [4 and 1] [and 2 and] [3 and 4 and].
    Hope that helps! Could write it out in Notion later...

    It sound like to me there's an 1/8 note pick up note at the start of the loop. So the down beat of 1 on the first measure is the second note played.

  • edited May 19

    Thanks folks, definitely helpful, and please help yourself @ReflectiveHaze (I’d love to hear it if you do!!) - I’m developing a bunch of stuff in this key and it’s modes from some silly notion I picked up on Reddit about a CoVI D chord (c,d#,f#,a,d) - nonsense, but it’s challenged both my musical habits and the patterns of notes I use on the guitar :)

    Good to know it’s 4/4 - I can try and figure out a beat that will sequence to it now 🙏

  • @rs2000 said:
    It's a straight 4/4 with some accent on the 16th hit so it does sound a bit unconventional.

    I hear the same thing 8 bars of 4/4 the accents add interest, nice intro.

  • Right, it'd be something like this, if it's fast according to your feeling. If it's slow then it'd be 16th notes instead. Nice groove there. I'd love to use a loop like this! :)

  • edited May 19

    Thanks @Artj I’ll try and decode that, and nice one @sisterkate and @rs2000
    All most kind and feel free to grab the sound and play with it as much as you like, I do have more in the progression but want to figure out getting it working with a beat before recording more... I think the soundcloud is available for download, I’ll check it now and make it so if not... (it wasn't so I enabled it - not sure if you can do that via the app so did it on laptop)

  • Drop a 5/4 beat over the top after the first rotation. Has prog rock written all over it.

  • Cheers @onkey I’ll give that a go too, I was wondering why my hair was looking so mullet, going ‘prog for grog’ might explain it 🤣

  • @Krupa said:
    Cheers @onkey I’ll give that a go too, I was wondering why my hair was looking so mullet, going ‘prog for grog’ might explain it 🤣

    Haha, for giggles our prog(ish) drummer would randomly drop a 5/4 beat over a pop song we’d be rehearsing in anticipation of the inevitable WTF-just-happened look on our faces 😧

    Pretty sure he sported a mullet too...

  • If you leave off one beat per measure this could easily turn into a nice lil’ groove in 7... :)

  • Uh oh, getting confused, did try a few beats yesterday and got close with both a 4/4 and a 5/4 but still a bit ‘off’ - think it’s just my ‘loose’ playing style 😀

  • @Krupa said:
    Uh oh, getting confused, did try a few beats yesterday and got close with both a 4/4 and a 5/4 but still a bit ‘off’ - think it’s just my ‘loose’ playing style 😀

    Loose playing style, I like that. If it were me I would just run through the progression a few times with a metronome after about 10 mins your timing should be pretty solid then record it again to a metronome. Slap that drum loop on that puppy and marvel at how tight the timing is now.

  • @hacked_to_pieces too right, I shall 👍

  • :D You guys are terrible, add 1 beat here, take out 1 beat there. He'll end up with Take Five ver.2! >:)

  • @Krupa said:
    Uh oh, getting confused, did try a few beats yesterday and got close with both a 4/4 and a 5/4 but still a bit ‘off’ - think it’s just my ‘loose’ playing style 😀

    Well when I counted the original I made it to be 4 and a half...

  • Think it’s time to just play it to every time signature in Mid East drummer and see which one wins 😂

  • @Krupa said:
    Uh oh, getting confused, did try a few beats yesterday and got close with both a 4/4 and a 5/4 but still a bit ‘off’ - think it’s just my ‘loose’ playing style 😀

    Maybe this will help? I tightened the downbeats a bit so they fall on the beats with the drum. Hope the attachment works!

  • Oh my, that rocks, you rock, I rock, nice nice nice I will practice to that and add the other bits 👍👍👍👍🤘🙌🙌

  • @Artj said:

    @Krupa said:
    Uh oh, getting confused, did try a few beats yesterday and got close with both a 4/4 and a 5/4 but still a bit ‘off’ - think it’s just my ‘loose’ playing style 😀

    Maybe this will help? I tightened the downbeats a bit so they fall on the beats with the drum. Hope the attachment works!

    Yep...was think this when I heard the original...I think this will make a nice track after adding the other bits :)
    Maybe play with a metronome to help keep the recording timing tighter?

  • @richardyot said:

    @Krupa said:
    Uh oh, getting confused, did try a few beats yesterday and got close with both a 4/4 and a 5/4 but still a bit ‘off’ - think it’s just my ‘loose’ playing style 😀

    Well when I counted the original I made it to be 4 and a half...

    So 9/8 then 🤣

  • @Krupa said:
    Oh my, that rocks, you rock, I rock, nice nice nice I will practice to that and add the other bits 👍👍👍👍🤘🙌🙌

    Adding my .02. Cool riff. There is a tiny bit of space before the actual audio at beginning that needed removing. Once it was the audio looped nicely and it counted to me as 8 bars of 4 (at 124.3 bpm) with a nice syncopation that has some accents not on one (Radiohead and Led Zep like to do that). I think the only reason you are having trouble matching it to a one or two bar rhythm loop is that there are a couple of places where the time has great feel but isn't metronomic. A human drummer would have no trouble locking in but those little variances in time (particularly with syncopated track) don't mesh with a machine drummer that keeps metronomic time.

    You could play unquantized drums and make it groove or find a groove you like to play it to to anchor your time.

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @Krupa said:
    Oh my, that rocks, you rock, I rock, nice nice nice I will practice to that and add the other bits 👍👍👍👍🤘🙌🙌

    Adding my .02. Cool riff. There is a tiny bit of space before the actual audio at beginning that needed removing. Once it was the audio looped nicely and it counted to me as 8 bars of 4 (at 124.3 bpm) with a nice syncopation that has some accents not on one (Radiohead and Led Zep like to do that). I think the only reason you are having trouble matching it to a one or two bar rhythm loop is that there are a couple of places where the time has great feel but isn't metronomic. A human drummer would have no trouble locking in but those little variances in time (particularly with syncopated track) don't mesh with a machine drummer that keeps metronomic time.

    You could play unquantized drums and make it groove or find a groove you like to play it to to anchor your time.

    Thanks for that analysis, and interesting what you say about a human drummer locking in as i was in a couple of bands when younger and always struggled to join an already moving tune, so from memory i think most of our stuff was started by me on the guitar and the drummer (my best mate at the time Ben, who was proper good, several grades into formal drumming) would come in after... I did get better after a while, (and a lot of patient practice with the band) -but that’s like nearly thirty years ago now 😳

    Had a lot of fun rocking out to that loop that @Artj made earlier after work today, thanks 🙏

    Led Zep and Radiohead definitely long time favourites of mine, only really noticed the Kashmir feel of the first change listening to it with the nice drums earlier, never mind, it’s not that close 😀 The Cure also play in my head a lot when I’m on the guitar...

  • @Krupa said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Krupa said:
    Oh my, that rocks, you rock, I rock, nice nice nice I will practice to that and add the other bits 👍👍👍👍🤘🙌🙌

    Adding my .02. Cool riff. There is a tiny bit of space before the actual audio at beginning that needed removing. Once it was the audio looped nicely and it counted to me as 8 bars of 4 (at 124.3 bpm) with a nice syncopation that has some accents not on one (Radiohead and Led Zep like to do that). I think the only reason you are having trouble matching it to a one or two bar rhythm loop is that there are a couple of places where the time has great feel but isn't metronomic. A human drummer would have no trouble locking in but those little variances in time (particularly with syncopated track) don't mesh with a machine drummer that keeps metronomic time.

    You could play unquantized drums and make it groove or find a groove you like to play it to to anchor your time.

    Thanks for that analysis, and interesting what you say about a human drummer locking in as i was in a couple of bands when younger and always struggled to join an already moving tune, so from memory i think most of our stuff was started by me on the guitar and the drummer (my best mate at the time Ben, who was proper good, several grades into formal drumming) would come in after... I did get better after a while, (and a lot of patient practice with the band) -but that’s like nearly thirty years ago now 😳

    Had a lot of fun rocking out to that loop that @Artj made earlier after work today, thanks 🙏

    Led Zep and Radiohead definitely long time favourites of mine, only really noticed the Kashmir feel of the first change listening to it with the nice drums earlier, never mind, it’s not that close 😀 The Cure also play in my head a lot when I’m on the guitar...

    I just listened last night to someone talking about what makes Smells Like Teen Spirit so amazing. And he showed how Dave Grohl intentionally delays the kick drum at certain transitions in a way that is intentional (he does it in the same place live as on the track) and non-metronomic. John Bonham and all funk drummers (in non-drum-machine contexts) do it.

    It is always a challenge to figure out how to do that feel type work with drum machines and loops -- particularly for patterns that are long.

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @Krupa said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Krupa said:
    Oh my, that rocks, you rock, I rock, nice nice nice I will practice to that and add the other bits 👍👍👍👍🤘🙌🙌

    Adding my .02. Cool riff. There is a tiny bit of space before the actual audio at beginning that needed removing. Once it was the audio looped nicely and it counted to me as 8 bars of 4 (at 124.3 bpm) with a nice syncopation that has some accents not on one (Radiohead and Led Zep like to do that). I think the only reason you are having trouble matching it to a one or two bar rhythm loop is that there are a couple of places where the time has great feel but isn't metronomic. A human drummer would have no trouble locking in but those little variances in time (particularly with syncopated track) don't mesh with a machine drummer that keeps metronomic time.

    You could play unquantized drums and make it groove or find a groove you like to play it to to anchor your time.

    Thanks for that analysis, and interesting what you say about a human drummer locking in as i was in a couple of bands when younger and always struggled to join an already moving tune, so from memory i think most of our stuff was started by me on the guitar and the drummer (my best mate at the time Ben, who was proper good, several grades into formal drumming) would come in after... I did get better after a while, (and a lot of patient practice with the band) -but that’s like nearly thirty years ago now 😳

    Had a lot of fun rocking out to that loop that @Artj made earlier after work today, thanks 🙏

    Led Zep and Radiohead definitely long time favourites of mine, only really noticed the Kashmir feel of the first change listening to it with the nice drums earlier, never mind, it’s not that close 😀 The Cure also play in my head a lot when I’m on the guitar...

    I just listened last night to someone talking about what makes Smells Like Teen Spirit so amazing. And he showed how Dave Grohl intentionally delays the kick drum at certain transitions in a way that is intentional (he does it in the same place live as on the track) and non-metronomic. John Bonham and all funk drummers (in non-drum-machine contexts) do it.

    It is always a challenge to figure out how to do that feel type work with drum machines and loops -- particularly for patterns that are long.

    That’s very interesting, might have to search that out; we used to jam that one as a warm up and while not fully conscious of that intentional offsetting, Ben probably was and fixed it for us.

    Definitely feel you on the challenge there - I get well hung up trying to extend beyond a section in sequencers when playing, did the Zenbeats intro the other day and starting to wonder how far I can push the recording in that in this way... More happy with the (albeit odds and ends) music I’m making right now than I’ve ever been though...

  • @Krupa said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Krupa said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Krupa said:
    Oh my, that rocks, you rock, I rock, nice nice nice I will practice to that and add the other bits 👍👍👍👍🤘🙌🙌

    Adding my .02. Cool riff. There is a tiny bit of space before the actual audio at beginning that needed removing. Once it was the audio looped nicely and it counted to me as 8 bars of 4 (at 124.3 bpm) with a nice syncopation that has some accents not on one (Radiohead and Led Zep like to do that). I think the only reason you are having trouble matching it to a one or two bar rhythm loop is that there are a couple of places where the time has great feel but isn't metronomic. A human drummer would have no trouble locking in but those little variances in time (particularly with syncopated track) don't mesh with a machine drummer that keeps metronomic time.

    You could play unquantized drums and make it groove or find a groove you like to play it to to anchor your time.

    Thanks for that analysis, and interesting what you say about a human drummer locking in as i was in a couple of bands when younger and always struggled to join an already moving tune, so from memory i think most of our stuff was started by me on the guitar and the drummer (my best mate at the time Ben, who was proper good, several grades into formal drumming) would come in after... I did get better after a while, (and a lot of patient practice with the band) -but that’s like nearly thirty years ago now 😳

    Had a lot of fun rocking out to that loop that @Artj made earlier after work today, thanks 🙏

    Led Zep and Radiohead definitely long time favourites of mine, only really noticed the Kashmir feel of the first change listening to it with the nice drums earlier, never mind, it’s not that close 😀 The Cure also play in my head a lot when I’m on the guitar...

    I just listened last night to someone talking about what makes Smells Like Teen Spirit so amazing. And he showed how Dave Grohl intentionally delays the kick drum at certain transitions in a way that is intentional (he does it in the same place live as on the track) and non-metronomic. John Bonham and all funk drummers (in non-drum-machine contexts) do it.

    It is always a challenge to figure out how to do that feel type work with drum machines and loops -- particularly for patterns that are long.

    That’s very interesting, might have to search that out; we used to jam that one as a warm up and while not fully conscious of that intentional offsetting, Ben probably was and fixed it for us.

    Definitely feel you on the challenge there - I get well hung up trying to extend beyond a section in sequencers when playing, did the Zenbeats intro the other day and starting to wonder how far I can push the recording in that in this way... More happy with the (albeit odds and ends) music I’m making right now than I’ve ever been though...

    Here is the vid about Smells Like Teen Spirit I referred to:

  • Sweet man ta @espiegel123

  • Rotating the groups of three semi quavers through the bars of 4/4 reminded me of the shinannegins we got up to in this Thieves Kitchen song which we wrote and rehearsed just before I left the band. The relevant bit starts at about 4:20.

  • Right, I agreed that your trouble was that the original guitar rift was not robotic (as it shouldn't always be so!), so you couldn't fit the drum perfectly. You can keep the feel of the original guitar track by adding a live drummer, or chopping a drum loop and align each hit to the elastic tempo of the guitar riff. You guys suggested some great songs here, by the way. Love it.👍

  • Any clues where Beato gets the masters? Thinking not the record companies if they’re claiming his ad revenue 🤔

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