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Auria Pro: Lyra chops off transient of imported kick sample

I made a post about this on the Auria Pro forums (http://auriaapp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=16136). but I figured I’d also ask here =)

Whenever I import a kick sample via Menu->Import File or swipe up/Files, the kick plays fine as an audio track. However, when I click the audio track and then Edit->Share->Export to Lyra as sample, the transient of the kick does not play. Autocrossfade is disabled.

Here’s a link to my video showing what’s happening:

Fast forward to 4:00 to see the spectrum analyzer for the audio track versus Lyra track.

Why is Lyra chopping off the transient?

Thanks.

Comments

  • Does turning the attack knob all the way down help any? Also, you’re triggering the note velocity at 64. You might want to try increasing that to 128 to see if it makes a difference.

  • Try adjusting the volume of the two tracks so that the resulting volume is identical. In the video, the Lyra sample is playing at a lower volume

    Loudness has a huge impact on our perception. Are you triggering it at with the key that results in the identical pitch?

    I just tried the same thing as you did. when I trigger the kick with C3 (per Auria Pro’s keyboard) and adjust track volumes so that the resulting notes are at the identical volume, the samples sound the same.

  • I tried lowering the attack knob on Lyra all the way down (to the left) and that helped a lot, though it’s still missing a very high frequency that’s present on the original sample.

    I triggered the kick using C3 as well and adjusted the volume to be equal to the original audio sample. It still doesn’t sound correct.

    I’ll post a video a little later of how it sounds.

  • @trancespotter said:
    I tried lowering the attack knob on Lyra all the way down (to the left) and that helped a lot, though it’s still missing a very high frequency that’s present on the original sample.

    I triggered the kick using C3 as well and adjusted the volume to be equal to the original audio sample. It still doesn’t sound correct.

    I’ll post a video a little later of how it sounds.

    Can you post your drum sample and Auria Project?

  • How do I post a drum sample and AP project here? When I drag the sample and the AP project from the Files app onto this message box it doesn’t upload.

    I’ve posted another video that shows the different sounds again. The very first kick is the original sample running as an audio track. The next two tracks are Lyra tracks that have different envelope knob amounts. The final two audio tracks are bounces of the Lyra tracks.

    Link:

  • @trancespotter said:
    How do I post a drum sample and AP project here? When I drag the sample and the AP project from the Files app onto this message box it doesn’t upload.

    I’ve posted another video that shows the different sounds again. The very first kick is the original sample running as an audio track. The next two tracks are Lyra tracks that have different envelope knob amounts. The final two audio tracks are bounces of the Lyra tracks.

    Link:

    I think if you zip them you can upload.

  • @trancespotter said:
    How do I post a drum sample and AP project here? When I drag the sample and the AP project from the Files app onto this message box it doesn’t upload.

    I’ve posted another video that shows the different sounds again. The very first kick is the original sample running as an audio track. The next two tracks are Lyra tracks that have different envelope knob amounts. The final two audio tracks are bounces of the Lyra tracks.

    Link:

    The first two notes that sound are awfully close to my ear. YouTube audio is lossy. So maybe the original audio sounds different. The next note is quite different but its loudness seems quite different, too.

  • You don’t show the velocity you’re using when you trigger that note. Adjusting the volume of the sample isn’t the same as hitting it at a higher velocity. If you’re still triggering it at 64 velocity, you should try it at 128.

  • I changed the velocities of the notes to 128. I’ll see if I can upload a zip of the sample and AP project later today after work.

  • I've attached a zip file that contains the Auria Pro project called "New Project 1 2" and the original kick sample wav file named "Kick 17.wav".

    As in the video in the prior post, the first channel called "Kick 17" is the original wav file. Channel 2 is when I shared with Lyra the very first time. Channel 3 is me sharing it again with Lyra. Channel 4 is the stem track of Channel 2, and Channel 5 is the stem track of channel 3. It's the same format as in the above video.

    Like I said earlier, the audio of the original kick in Channel 1 sounds like it has a very high pitched "smack" sound that seems like it was cut off in other channels.

    Lastly, just in case this matters, I'm running Auria Pro on a 2nd generation iPad Pro 12.9" with 512 GB of memory. I've tested it using the internal iPad speakers, Adam F7 studio monitors, and a bluetooth Ultimate Ears speaker and I get the same results.

  • @trancespotter: i can hear what you are talking about in your version of the file. I rendered your stems and compared the unaltered original kick, the kick that was an audio event and the first (best) lyra kick. I noticed that while the loudness was similar, it wasn't the same. I also noticed that altering the sustain envelope had a slight impact.

    Take a listen to this audio file and let me know what you think. It has three consecutive notes. I'll wait to tell you what is what till until you have had a chance to weigh in.

    Here is what I did:

    • slightly adjusted the envelope of the Lyra kick
    • altered the sequence to be just the lyra kick on one track and the audio event of the original kick on another
    • i exported the stems
    • normalized the raw original kick and both auria pro stems
    • trimmed all the samples to 1 second
    • copied and pasted each hit into a new twisted wave file and saved as a 24-bit wav file

    Take a listen. Is it obvious which is which? I am 57. So, I can't hear as much high-end as younger people -- but on a spectrum analyzer, all the hits are pretty similar.

  • Great, I’ll check it out later today after work!

  • Just listened to the wave file...What did you do? :D :)

    The first kick is the kick that I had imported with Lyra that prompted me to create this post. The second and third kicks sound just like the original sample.

    Did I just need to adjust the Lyra envelope? I had tried that but, while it seemed to help somewhat on the sound, I just wasn’t getting the right combination to make it sound like the original sample.

  • @trancespotter said:
    Just listened to the wave file...What did you do? :D :)

    The first kick is the kick that I had imported with Lyra that prompted me to create this post. The second and third kicks sound just like the original sample.

    Did I just need to adjust the Lyra envelope? I had tried that but, while it seemed to help somewhat on the sound, I just wasn’t getting the right combination to make it sound like the original sample.

    @trancespotter said:
    Just listened to the wave file...What did you do? :D :)

    The first kick is the kick that I had imported with Lyra that prompted me to create this post. The second and third kicks sound just like the original sample.

    Did I just need to adjust the Lyra envelope? I had tried that but, while it seemed to help somewhat on the sound, I just wasn’t getting the right combination to make it sound like the original sample.

    The first kick is Lyra with the attack set all the way to the left and decay all the way to the right. And the volume boosted to match the level of the others. The second is your kick file and the last is the exported stem of your kick as an Auria Pro audio event.

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @trancespotter said:
    Just listened to the wave file...What did you do? :D :)

    The first kick is the kick that I had imported with Lyra that prompted me to create this post. The second and third kicks sound just like the original sample.

    Did I just need to adjust the Lyra envelope? I had tried that but, while it seemed to help somewhat on the sound, I just wasn’t getting the right combination to make it sound like the original sample.

    @trancespotter said:
    Just listened to the wave file...What did you do? :D :)

    The first kick is the kick that I had imported with Lyra that prompted me to create this post. The second and third kicks sound just like the original sample.

    Did I just need to adjust the Lyra envelope? I had tried that but, while it seemed to help somewhat on the sound, I just wasn’t getting the right combination to make it sound like the original sample.

    The first kick is Lyra with the attack set all the way to the left and decay all the way to the right. And the volume boosted to match the level of the others. The second is your kick file and the last is the exported stem of your kick as an Auria Pro audio event.

    Well then now I’m confused 😩. The first kick is the kick when played through Lyra using C3. I put it in Lyra via edit-Share-Export to Lyra as sample. It’s the kick that I don’t want because it lacks the high end smack that the next two kicks have, both of which are straight audio and not being used in Lyra. Adjusting the knobs in Lyra didn’t get it sounding like the original either.

    My objective is to just put the kick sample in Lyra and program it like a MIDI instrument, but if Lyra isn’t sampling it correctly (at least to my ears isn’t), then I won’t be able to sample any percussive instruments in AP 😔 I’ll just have to do it in Logic or export the drums to wav files and use Drumagog to replace them.

    Oddly, when I copy-paste 4 instances the audio file of the kick back to kick and put the playhead on the first kick and push play, that first kick is muffled but the next 3 have the nice high end smack. However, when I put the playhead a little before (like a beat or so) the first kick, the first kick will sound just like the next three. It’s as if there’s a compressor that’s affecting the first kick but not the next ones if I put the playhead right on the first kick.

    Thank you for your help!

  • Also, when I load the same kick sample into DrumPerfect Pro, it plays correctly.

  • @trancespotter: here is something to try, create a version of the original sample that has a tiny tiny amount of silence in front of it. What you just said makes me wonder if that might impact things.

    I am curious to try other samplers to see if they exhibit similar behavior. I rarely use Lyra with my own samples.

  • edited May 30

    @espiegel123 said:
    @trancespotter: here is something to try, create a version of the original sample that has a tiny tiny amount of silence in front of it. What you just said makes me wonder if that might impact things.

    I am curious to try other samplers to see if they exhibit similar behavior. I rarely use Lyra with my own samples.

    Alright, THAT worked! I added a little bit of silence to the audio file, then exported the sample to Lyra via Sharing, made C3 MIDI notes, and NOW it sounds like the original sample, including the high smack sound I was missing!

    So I guess for that specific sample pack I’m going to have to add a tiny bit of silence to all of the percussive elements since Lyra isn’t quick (?) enough to pick up up the very first transient. Like I said earlier, the samples worked perfectly fine in DrumPerfect Pro and Logic Pro (via Ultrabeat) with no editing to the file or parameters of the sampler. And it works in AP if I drag and drop it into an audio channel, so this is a Lyra-specific thing.

    Thanks!

    EDIT: BTW which sampler do you use if not Lyra? I tried routing DPP into AP all of the drums go into one channel rather than being split.

  • edited May 30

    @trancespotter said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @trancespotter: here is something to try, create a version of the original sample that has a tiny tiny amount of silence in front of it. What you just said makes me wonder if that might impact things.

    I am curious to try other samplers to see if they exhibit similar behavior. I rarely use Lyra with my own samples.

    Alright, THAT worked! I added a little bit of silence to the audio file, then exported the sample to Lyra via Sharing, made C3 MIDI notes, and NOW it sounds like the original sample, including the high smack sound I was missing!

    So I guess for that specific sample pack I’m going to have to add a tiny bit of silence to all of the percussive elements since Lyra isn’t quick (?) enough to pick up up the very first transient. Like I said earlier, the samples worked perfectly fine in DrumPerfect Pro and Logic Pro (via Ultrabeat) with no editing to the file or parameters of the sampler. And it works in AP if I drag and drop it into an audio channel, so this is a Lyra-specific thing.

    Thanks!

    EDIT: BTW which sampler do you use if not Lyra? I tried routing DPP into AP all of the drums go into one channel rather than being split.

    You can route DPP into Auria Pro using separate channels for each drum without any problems.
    Take a look at these (old) videos, but the procedure is still the same.

  • @Rodolfo said:

    @trancespotter said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @trancespotter: here is something to try, create a version of the original sample that has a tiny tiny amount of silence in front of it. What you just said makes me wonder if that might impact things.

    I am curious to try other samplers to see if they exhibit similar behavior. I rarely use Lyra with my own samples.

    Alright, THAT worked! I added a little bit of silence to the audio file, then exported the sample to Lyra via Sharing, made C3 MIDI notes, and NOW it sounds like the original sample, including the high smack sound I was missing!

    So I guess for that specific sample pack I’m going to have to add a tiny bit of silence to all of the percussive elements since Lyra isn’t quick (?) enough to pick up up the very first transient. Like I said earlier, the samples worked perfectly fine in DrumPerfect Pro and Logic Pro (via Ultrabeat) with no editing to the file or parameters of the sampler. And it works in AP if I drag and drop it into an audio channel, so this is a Lyra-specific thing.

    Thanks!

    EDIT: BTW which sampler do you use if not Lyra? I tried routing DPP into AP all of the drums go into one channel rather than being split.

    You can route DPP into Auria Pro using separate channels for each drum without any problems.
    Take a look at these (old) videos, but the procedure is still the same.

    Thank you Rodolfo! I had seen those tutorials before and was partly the reason why I bought DPP in the first place, but I could never get it to work until tonight for some reason 🤷🏽‍♂️

    I’m gonna post the results of this Lyra kick sample troubleshooting on the AP forums tomorrow just in case someone runs into the same problem.

  • @trancespotter : I use audiolayer and BeatHawk and Patterning for sample players. I'll check them out tomorrow.

  • @trancespotter : check this out. This version includes BeatHawk rendering the sample in AP, too. I also edited in the original Kik sample somewhere.

  • @espiegel123 said:
    @trancespotter : check this out. This version includes BeatHawk rendering the sample in AP, too. I also edited in the original Kik sample somewhere.

    Ignore that file. I rendered the wrong one

  • Here is the correct one. An assortment that includes, BeatHawk, Lyra, the Kick as an audio event and the raw kick edited in in Twisted Wave after rendering.

  • @espiegel123 said:
    Here is the correct one. An assortment that includes, BeatHawk, Lyra, the Kick as an audio event and the raw kick edited in in Twisted Wave after rendering.

    To me the third kick and last kick sound correct. The other ones are high end click on it.

    I’m beginning to think it’s something weird either with iOS or the model of iPad I have because even when I go into into the Files app and click on the sample to preview it, the first time the sample plays normally, but each consecutive time I push play then it sounds muffled. I have to close the window and re-open the sample for it to play correctly.

  • wimwim
    edited June 2

    @trancespotter said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    Here is the correct one. An assortment that includes, BeatHawk, Lyra, the Kick as an audio event and the raw kick edited in in Twisted Wave after rendering.

    To me the third kick and last kick sound correct. The other ones are high end click on it.

    I’m beginning to think it’s something weird either with iOS or the model of iPad I have because even when I go into into the Files app and click on the sample to preview it, the first time the sample plays normally, but each consecutive time I push play then it sounds muffled. I have to close the window and re-open the sample for it to play correctly.

    That’s standard playback behavior for the files app. Nothing to do with this issue. It will do that with any sample on any device.

    Preview it in AudioShare and it will sound the same every time

  • @trancespotter said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    Here is the correct one. An assortment that includes, BeatHawk, Lyra, the Kick as an audio event and the raw kick edited in in Twisted Wave after rendering.

    To me the third kick and last kick sound correct. The other ones are high end click on it.

    I’m beginning to think it’s something weird either with iOS or the model of iPad I have because even when I go into into the Files app and click on the sample to preview it, the first time the sample plays normally, but each consecutive time I push play then it sounds muffled. I have to close the window and re-open the sample for it to play correctly.

    The order is

    1 - kick audio event in AP

    2 - kick in Lyra

    3 - same as 1

    4 - sample played from BeatHawk AU

    5 - Lyra

    6 - kick audio event (1 ms of silence inserted at beginning of source audio file)

    7 - original kick sample added to file rendered from Auria Pro

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