What’s missing from IOS music-making synths,apps, what have you

seachord

Here is a master musician playing guitar. Notice how he seems to be “one with the instrument”. That sort of connection is lost in all the tech and magic of the iPad. Sad.

Jumpercollins

Finger Fiddle, GeoShred are Expressive.

pagefall

I would argue strongly that that is not a product of the iPad (or any software/tech) but practicing - and if any one of us practiced for on the iPad/software/any given tech then we also would be 'at one' with the device (admittedly the fact it changes rapidly is against that but the Principle stands)

& there certainly are electronic musicians 'at one' with their tools - look at Autechre and Max/MSP or a number of live coding people - or people like Richard Devine on the modular. There is a great clip of Gaz Williams playing Samplr too which is pretty impressive

skrat

It's maybe because developers are still bit close-minded when it comes to touch interfaces and using them as a live instrument. The decades of either computer (keyboard+mouse+screen) or hardware (knobs and faders) or classical instruments (piano, strings) affected our thinking about generating music more than we can admit.
But there are exceptions like PlayGround:

It's a pity they've abandoned Beatsurfing app which was the "open" version of PlayGround that allowed you to build your own interface and control freely via MIDI whatever software / hardware you want. The concepts for touch control there are unique and extremely playable, but you're currently "locked" into the pre-made presets...

rs2000

1. An AUv3 channel strip like the one in Auria
2. Further development of Virsyn AudioLayer
3. Further development of AudioShare and TwistedWave Editor

BroCoast

To be truly "One with an instrument" you need to feel the acoustic vibrations from it.

You cannot get that from an iPad but you cannot get that from most electronic instruments either.

Paa89

Files app in host sample preview.
Effectrix AUv3 support
Cubasis busses/sends true sends.
LayR and Cubasis to work
Audiokit Apps AUv3 especially D1💕
SynthMaster One to be more stable

marmakin

As a lifelong guitar player that is more recent to iOS... I do have to say that I don’t connect with my iPad and it’s apps in the same primordial instinctual level as the guitar. That could also be a function of many more years practice, but I really do feel like the guitar kind of plays itself instead of focusing on all of process concerns of iOS music making. The guitar is way more natural and immediate.

That being said, I think the quality of my end result (recording) on iOS is much better than any of my solo recording efforts on guitar based songs. Much better.

So that’s my trade off.

Multicellular

I play one of those persian/spanish analog string synthesizers. It definitely has a lot of modulation advantages right at your fingertips. The great thing about it is how many you can control simultaneously. Better than a typical XY pad for sure.

Truly, as someone that is mainly a guitar player, that is the biggest 'one with the instrument' issue for me on electronic devices. The sources of expression are a bit less intuitive and don't necessarily interact. So I love being able to work on some things on the iPad by itself, but I can't really lay down the main parts on it. I need a midi controller to get my velocities and swing (i.e. not playing exactly on the grid) right.

But I don't think that is inherent with electronic things. I program multiple velocity mods and make macros in Tremor and it is as expressive as any hand drum if not more so. We just need to keep asking these types of things of our electronic interfaces. I think a touch screen has huge potential for that, but like @skrat I haven't seen it pushed to all its possibilities (at least not in a workflow, i.e. AU, that I need). I definitely image me being able at some point to have a combo of a midi controller and touch screen I feel as connected to as a guitar.

And as an aside...my beautiful old gal. Been through a lot, but sounds pristine.

Jocphone

This guy seems to be equally "at one" with his instrument.

Inherently electronic, no acoustic vibrations from the instrument itself. The main point is that they are performers in addition to being musicians. They have practiced their craft in playing the instrument but also in making their performance seem credible to an audience.

JohnnyGoodyear

@Multicellular

Nice post there. Separate from the topic (but perhaps not really that separate), I do love how people relate/talk about their instruments with such closeness and personal connection. I feel similarly about my dog, but have never had that feeling for an otherwise inanimate object.

Multicellular

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
@Multicellular

Nice post there. Separate from the topic (but perhaps not really that separate), I do love how people relate/talk about their instruments with such closeness and personal connection. I feel similarly about my dog, but have never had that feeling for an otherwise inanimate object.

Yeah, I feel a little silly to admit that sometimes. But I have guitars and basses that have supported me emotionally longer than any paramour. I've had that guitar above more than half my life. I have a bass I've had for 28 years.

ajmiller

I’m a musician first and foremost and if it makes a sound I can usually craft something out of it - either my trumpet, a guitar or my iPad app. The OP says it all about the guitarist in question “...a master musician....”

TheOriginalPaulB

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
@Multicellular

Nice post there. Separate from the topic (but perhaps not really that separate), I do love how people relate/talk about their instruments with such closeness and personal connection. I feel similarly about my dog, but have never had that feeling for an otherwise inanimate object.

Perhaps you should try to get a tune out of your dog...

JohnnyGoodyear

@TheOriginalPaulB said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
@Multicellular

Nice post there. Separate from the topic (but perhaps not really that separate), I do love how people relate/talk about their instruments with such closeness and personal connection. I feel similarly about my dog, but have never had that feeling for an otherwise inanimate object.

Perhaps you should try to get a tune out of your dog...

He's a 120 pounds of do-what-he-wants with a bad loud voice and covered in stink....

RUST( i )K

@seachord said:
Here is a master musician playing guitar. Notice how he seems to be “one with the instrument”. That sort of connection is lost in all the tech and magic of the iPad. Sad.

Broad brush opinions don’t do it for me

Especially since I disagree

lukesleepwalker

The dog has already won the thread. Everything else is just noise from here on out.

TheOriginalPaulB

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
@Multicellular

Nice post there. Separate from the topic (but perhaps not really that separate), I do love how people relate/talk about their instruments with such closeness and personal connection. I feel similarly about my dog, but have never had that feeling for an otherwise inanimate object.

Perhaps you should try to get a tune out of your dog...

He's a 120 pounds of do-what-he-wants with a bad loud voice and covered in stink....

Well it worked for Meat Loaf...

db909

I fancy myself a pretty decent Soundprism player. And an excellent iKaossilator player

CracklePot

One of the very first electronic instruments, extremely expressive, no physical contact, yet somehow a strong connection between performer and instrument is made.

This video makes me think more practice and dedication is what is really missing.

Thardus

@marmakin said:
That being said, I think the quality of my end result (recording) on iOS is much better than any of my solo recording efforts on guitar based songs. Much better.

So that’s my trade off.

My experience has been similar. I was a touring musician for almost two decades, during which I primarily played in rock bands. I played in a lot of bands, but the most successful ones were both with the same guitar player. I have yet to meet another musician that is half as easy to write with, or didn't matter if we started with his guitar part or my bass part, we would always come away with a new part or a new song.

The connection to my bass is still there ( I play a Fender Bass VI, possibly the greatest bass guitar ever made) but I have yet to meet another musician as intuitive as my old songwriting partner.

We made two records in professional studios, one of which was done entirely analog, from our amps to tape to vinyl, and naturely it cost a fortune, but no one was too excited about the way it turned out, especially us.

Then our drummer moved across the country and we decided to program drum parts for the third album, and just record in our studio using my MacBook Pro.

It was amazing how much easier things became once the drummer had an on/off button, and a volume knob, and as a result we were able to focus on the melodic parts whole recording, and it ultimately became our best record.

That being said, playing live rock music to a drum machine is really hard to do, and bit much fun to watch.

I didn't realize how much energy I got from the drummer until I tried making eye contact with the iPod and 15" moniter we would put on stage were the drummer would be.

Ultimately we did the tour for the record with the drummer playing an octapad or something, which was better than the iPod, but still felt like something crucial was missing.

So what is the point of this rambling post?

Well, first of all that having that connection to an instrument or a group of people doesn't make up for something that's not sonically pleasing, at least if you are looking to make fans.

I guess that's the trade off, like so many facets of creating art, you have to choose between energy and technicality. Having had it both ways, I can say that as a performer I would always take the energy, but as a fan, 99% of the time I prefer well crafted audio (the 1% being the Jesus Lizard).

trancespotter

@BroCoast said:
To be truly "One with an instrument" you need to feel the acoustic vibrations from it.

You cannot get that from an iPad but you cannot get that from most electronic instruments either.

Yea, I’m hoping the next giant technological leap for iPads will be some sort of tactile feedback from the touchscreen that sends small vibrations to your fingers whenever you’re touching a button on the GUI. That’d open up lots of possibilities.

That and the ability to project a 3D hologram from the touchscreen that can be manipulated somehow.

And the ability to create actual knobs/faders that rise and fall from the touchscreen using some sort of material that rearranges itself from 3D back to 2D touchscreen.

Multicellular

@trancespotter said:

@BroCoast said:
To be truly "One with an instrument" you need to feel the acoustic vibrations from it.

You cannot get that from an iPad but you cannot get that from most electronic instruments either.

Yea, I’m hoping the next giant technological leap for iPads will be some sort of tactile feedback from the touchscreen that sends small vibrations to your fingers whenever you’re touching a button on the GUI. That’d open up lots of possibilities.

That and the ability to project a 3D hologram from the touchscreen that can be manipulated somehow.

And the ability to create actual knobs/faders that rise and fall from the touchscreen using some sort of material that rearranges itself from 3D back to 2D touchscreen.

eh I already have tactile feedback, at least for any bassy sounds. My iPad is running into two powered cabs with 10 inch speakers. Feel it in my toes, fingers, gut.

trancespotter

@Multicellular said:

@trancespotter said:

@BroCoast said:
To be truly "One with an instrument" you need to feel the acoustic vibrations from it.

You cannot get that from an iPad but you cannot get that from most electronic instruments either.

Yea, I’m hoping the next giant technological leap for iPads will be some sort of tactile feedback from the touchscreen that sends small vibrations to your fingers whenever you’re touching a button on the GUI. That’d open up lots of possibilities.

That and the ability to project a 3D hologram from the touchscreen that can be manipulated somehow.

And the ability to create actual knobs/faders that rise and fall from the touchscreen using some sort of material that rearranges itself from 3D back to 2D touchscreen.

eh I already have tactile feedback, at least for any bassy sounds. My iPad is running into two powered cabs with 10 inch speakers. Feel it in my toes, fingers, gut.

Haha nice. I’m actually thinking about getting the SubPac but I dunno if it’ll be fun for the first few days then start collecting dust once the novelty of it wears off.

Multicellular

@trancespotter said:

@Multicellular said:

@trancespotter said:

@BroCoast said:
To be truly "One with an instrument" you need to feel the acoustic vibrations from it.

You cannot get that from an iPad but you cannot get that from most electronic instruments either.

Yea, I’m hoping the next giant technological leap for iPads will be some sort of tactile feedback from the touchscreen that sends small vibrations to your fingers whenever you’re touching a button on the GUI. That’d open up lots of possibilities.

That and the ability to project a 3D hologram from the touchscreen that can be manipulated somehow.

And the ability to create actual knobs/faders that rise and fall from the touchscreen using some sort of material that rearranges itself from 3D back to 2D touchscreen.

eh I already have tactile feedback, at least for any bassy sounds. My iPad is running into two powered cabs with 10 inch speakers. Feel it in my toes, fingers, gut.

Haha nice. I’m actually thinking about getting the SubPac but I dunno if it’ll be fun for the first few days then start collecting dust once the novelty of it wears off.

Meh. Holding out for the implants.

LinearLineman

Good thread. I post occasionally on the PianoWorld forum and the discussion is never ending about the superiority of acoustic instruments over digital. And as digitals evolve, hammer action, string resonance, soundboards emulating vibrations, the acoustic guys are never satisfied. The acoustic is always better for the “real” musical experience. In my opinion this is bullshit. If you put Artur Rubinstein on a Yamaha Avantgrand and Joe Everyguy on a nine foot Bosendorfer who will be more “one” with the instrument?

My own personal experience leads me in that direction. I played a vintage Steinway B for thirty years. Over a hundred years old and fully rebuilt I would often sit and stare at its beauty, aesthetic gravitas and incredible modernity for something made in 1915. It was a heart Stopper! I would often demonstrate its resonance by pushing down the sustain pedal and asking my visitor to shout into the piano. Now that was something! A cross between Carnegie Hall and the Alps. If I could have fucked that beast I would have!

And yet, this last year-long creative jag has set me to rights re this “one with the instrument” canard. I can honestly say that I have felt just as unified using the “write” button in Cubasis and riding the volume of a track for six or eight minutes as I ever felt in my greatest improvisatory bliss with my Steinway. Truly this is so for me, and more regularly in iOS production than ever happened as an acoustic jazzer.

When the entire world drops away, when thought stops and feeling takes over... that has always been my def of oneness. And this has totally been my iOS experience on an almost daily basis. This is a cd cover for a piano album called “Thoughtless”...

On the interior of the album the pictorial joke continues with a ham sandwich being sequentially assembled in the thought balloon. In other words, when I improvised, I could easily be thinking about lunch and playing in connection at the same time! And, in my book, this was kosher (tho the sandwich often was not). But in arranging and mixing a track in iOS there are no parallel thoughts with the creating. There is only my finger tip and the screen. Now I am experimenting with live performances of SpaceCraft and the MPE keyboard in Noise. The association with a real keyboard has kept me from approaching “oneness” with Noise, but in SpaceCraft I really felt the possibility of that world disappearing experience. I was immediately in sync with it.

So I can make the case that, for me, that this “oneness” thing goes beyond the instrument. In fact, for me, a touch screen is a perfect vehicle to get to that numinosity we so aspire to. And thus, if you only have an iPad do not despair. If you put in the time and effort required to get to the singularity on an acoustic you can just as readily reach it using your fingertip and a piece of glass if you put in the effort. Just my humble opinion.

JeffChasteen

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
@Multicellular

Nice post there. Separate from the topic (but perhaps not really that separate), I do love how people relate/talk about their instruments with such closeness and personal connection. I feel similarly about my dog, but have never had that feeling for an otherwise inanimate object.

Perhaps you should try to get a tune out of your dog...

He's a 120 pounds of do-what-he-wants with a bad loud voice and covered in stink....

That is one skeptical looking good boy.

JohnnyGoodyear

@JeffChasteen said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
@Multicellular

Nice post there. Separate from the topic (but perhaps not really that separate), I do love how people relate/talk about their instruments with such closeness and personal connection. I feel similarly about my dog, but have never had that feeling for an otherwise inanimate object.

Perhaps you should try to get a tune out of your dog...

He's a 120 pounds of do-what-he-wants with a bad loud voice and covered in stink....

That is one skeptical looking good boy.

Being from the Pyrenees he has very strong feelings about Brexit and didn't appreciate the 'little Englander' connotations of being dressed up in that shirt....

BroCoast

@LinearLineman said:
Good thread. I post occasionally on the PianoWorld forum and the discussion is never ending about the superiority of acoustic instruments over digital. And as digitals evolve, hammer action, string resonance, soundboards emulating vibrations, the acoustic guys are never satisfied. The acoustic is always better for the “real” musical experience. In my opinion this is bullshit. If you put Artur Rubinstein on a Yamaha Avantgrand and Joe Everyguy on a nine foot Bosendorfer who will be more “one” with the instrument?

My own personal experience leads me in that direction. I played a vintage Steinway B for thirty years. Over a hundred years old and fully rebuilt I would often sit and stare at its beauty, aesthetic gravitas and incredible modernity for something made in 1915. It was a heart Stopper! I would often demonstrate its resonance by pushing down the sustain pedal and asking my visitor to shout into the piano. Now that was something! A cross between Carnegie Hall and the Alps. If I could have fucked that beast I would have!

And yet, this last year-long creative jag has set me to rights re this “one with the instrument” canard. I can honestly say that I have felt just as unified using the “write” button in Cubasis and riding the volume of a track for six or eight minutes as I ever felt in my greatest improvisatory bliss with my Steinway. Truly this is so for me, and more regularly in iOS production than ever happened as an acoustic jazzer.

When the entire world drops away, when thought stops and feeling takes over... that has always been my def of oneness. And this has totally been my iOS experience on an almost daily basis. This is a cd cover for a piano album called “Thoughtless”...

On the interior of the album the pictorial joke continues with a ham sandwich being sequentially assembled in the thought balloon. In other words, when I improvised, I could easily be thinking about lunch and playing in connection at the same time! And, in my book, this was kosher (tho the sandwich often was not). But in arranging and mixing a track in iOS there are no parallel thoughts with the creating. There is only my finger tip and the screen. Now I am experimenting with live performances of SpaceCraft and the MPE keyboard in Noise. The association with a real keyboard has kept me from approaching “oneness” with Noise, but in SpaceCraft I really felt the possibility of that world disappearing experience. I was immediately in sync with it.

So I can make the case that, for me, that this “oneness” thing goes beyond the instrument. In fact, for me, a touch screen is a perfect vehicle to get to that numinosity we so aspire to. And thus, if you only have an iPad do not despair. If you put in the time and effort required to get to the singularity on an acoustic you can just as readily reach it using your fingertip and a piece of glass if you put in the effort. Just my humble opinion.

I love your posts.

Arthur Rubinstein. Here playing a piece of music I've been at war with since I was 15