PSA: Don't update to iOS 12.4 if you use apps in AB output slot or IAA apps that use the mic.
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/34030/urgent-psa-hold-off-updating-to-ios-12-4-if-you-use-apps-in-output-slot-in-audiobus

Request for Owners of the New 2019 iPad Air 3 and Mini 5 - Sample Rate with Headphones Plugged-In

If anyone here owns either the new Air 3 or Mini 5, would you please do a quick test?

Please close all apps, connect headphones, run AudioShare, AUM, Cubasis, etc. and try to change the sample rate to 44.1kHz.

Are you able to change the sample rate? Or does the app stay stuck at 48kHz?

If you have time, possibly you could check other apps that allow changing the sample rate like the apeSoft and Amazing Noises apps, BM3, etc.

Thank you!

I use AudioShare for the test since it's probably the most popular app which allows us to change the sample rate. No other reason.

Comments

  • Can’t be done. I have an Air 3 running 12.2

    In Cubasis I get this message:

  • edited April 22

    Thank you @Beathoven, much appreciated.

    With headphones plugged-in directly to the iPad Air 3/Mini 5 and no other apps running:
    Apps that are locked at 48kHz: All apeSoft+Amazing Noises, BM3, AudioShare, Cubasis,
    Apps that can be changed to 44.1kHz: Groove Rider, Poison-202, SunVox, Virtual ANS, zMors Modular, KQ MiniSynth, Quanta,

  • @ocelot said:
    Thank you @Beathoven, much appreciated.

    With headphones plugged-in directly to the iPad Air 3/Mini 5 and no other apps running:
    Apps that are locked at 48kHz: All apeSoft+Amazing Noises, BM3, AudioShare, Cubasis,
    Apps that can be changed to 44.1kHz: Groove Rider, Poison-202, SunVox, Virtual ANS, zMors Modular, KQ MiniSynth, Quanta,

    @ocelot What are the implications. of this does it mean the apps can't be used if the only run at 44.1Khz or at 48khz the CPU works harder ? What about AUM ?

  • I would expect to be able to change the sample rate to any value, but at least 44.1 should always be possibly.

    But are those Apps the problem?

    I thought, this is an Apple problem that is still not fixed.

    Anyway, it would be interesting to see if those App really can switch the rate or if they just display the new value and not check back if this was possible at all.

    And @Jumpercollins if i want to produce a 44.1 file, i don’t want to create some parts in 48 and then need to convert, of course and the same the other way around, when targeting 48.
    One common sample rate for all parts of a project.

  • edited April 22

    I think its been proven that when AUM is run it runs at 44.1 with headphones. Since I pretty much only run Auv3 at this point I think that's enough for me :) will probably get an air3 at some point in the next 2-3 months.

  • Bottom line the 2018 pros have the same problem so if you want to buy new there is no way round the problem. 3/4 years from now if you want to stay in the iOS game with a decent spec iPad no one will have a choice. Progress for you !

  • edited April 22

    Little to no implications for most users, other than the possibility of out-of-tune synths, exporting issues, minor CPU impact, inconvenience...

    Some AU plugins follow the device's sample rate, others follow the host (which apparently is the proper method). Please correct me if I'm wrong. dendy mentioned that Blip is working on this, as are other devs.

    But like tja says, it's inconvenient. Spent a long time creating and editing my sample library for the iPad (tens of thousands of files manually converted to 16bit 44.1kHz. Couldn't bulk-convert because they have loop points, etc.). My 44.1kHz samples play without issues at 48kHz, so it's not a problem.

    AUM: with headphones: stuck at 48kHz. I didn't include it since w/o headphones attached, I can sometimes set it to 44.1kHz, but it's rare.

    Also, dendy (Mini 5) mentioned that in apeMatrix he is able to switch apps to 44.1kHz with headphones. And an Air 3 owner with apeMatrix is in the same boat as me (stuck at 48kHz). So I'm just attempting to get to the bottom of this. It's not worth stressing about obviously.

  • edited April 22

    Some IAA apps will have issues being recorded at 48 kHz, with continuous audio crackles. For example recording Gadget in Blocs wave though Audiobus is only possible at 44.1 kHz. On 7 Plus I have to use at least earpods or lightning to jack adapter but not speakers. For some users like me this is a big problem if an external audio interface must be used.
    Can somebody confirm iPad 2018 doesn’t have the issue?

  • @tja said:
    I thought, this is an Apple problem that is still not fixed.

    Apple locked the sample rate to 48kHz on the built-in speakers of phones since the 6s. While I would characterize that as a “problem” I think Apple sees it as “brave”. It wouldn’t surprise me to see this become the norm across all products.

    Anyway, it would be interesting to see if those App really can switch the rate or if they just display the new value and not check back if this was possible at all.

    Yes, I’m very curious about this too. I wouldn’t judge this just based on the final result of a recording as the app could be doing conversions on the fly. I would see if the performance is affected; you should see about 9% better performance running at 44.1kHz. So it should be easy to create a setup that crackles at 48kHz but plays fine at 44.1kHz.

    I’m curious about this with the 3rd Gen 2018 Pros as well. I picked up a Hyperdock and it was locked to 48kHz like the speakers (also, as someone else noticed, it only worked with headphones, it wouldn’t work when connected to other line level devices). Curious if other dongles allow 44.1kHz on the Pro (truly, not just what an app reports)

  • I am planning on getting the mini 5, but listening to you guys is scaring me.
    Been happy using the mini 2 for a few years now, but it's quite slow and not enough storage, so need to upgrade, is this 48khz a deal breaker, haven't got enough money to make a mistake, got lots of kids to feed.
    Or should I just get the 2018 model, I am at a crossroads and not sure which is the correct path

  • Be interested to hear what the cpu hit is as a consequence. The whole point for me to get a new iPad is for a performance boost.

  • edited April 22

    On the Mini 5, the sample rate for both Groove Rider and Poison-202 can be set as low as 32kHz. And it sounds like 32kHz to me - I can hear aliasing in the high frequencies, it's duller, reverb sounds cheap, etc.

    With Virtual ANS, you can set the 'System Settings' sample rate which requires a restart. (You can also adjust the 'Sound Quality' sample rate continuously in another section, but I think that's a sample rate reducer effect.)

    With KQ MiniSynth, it can be set as low as 22050Hz, but I'm not 100% certain I can tell the difference.

    Plus there are the usual and expected slight clicks in the audio that occur just as the sample rate switches in all the apps.

    So it seems, with some apps, we are able to change the sample rate.

  • I think maybe people aren’t clear on the distinctions n between hardware sample rate and the sample rate an app is logically working at. It is technically possible for an app to do its internal math based on 44.1kHz (for example) even if the hardware is running at 48 kHz.

    The app can either pass the samples through without sample rate conversion (which leads to the pitch being off but has little CPU impact) or can sample rate convert its output to the hardware sample rate (with a bit of CPU hit).

    Some apps make assumptions about hardware sample rate, some don’t, and some only work when the hardware sample rate matches that of the files they are using or some internal setting.

    Apple seems to have staked the position that apps should not tie their operation to the hardware sample rate. And there is a lot of variation in terms of how apps deal with that.

  • Hopefully devs read this:
    https://www.blipinteractive.co.uk/community/index.php?p=/discussion/479/some-notes-for-au-developers

    And while you're at it:
    http://devnotes.kymatica.com/
    http://atastypixel.com/blog/four-common-mistakes-in-audio-development/

    @Janosax I only had the 2018 iPad 6 for 1 day, but everything I recorded through Audiobus 3 was at 44.1kHz. I didn't test everything, so hopefully others can answer. @Nicebutfun The Mini 5 is noticeably faster though, especially at high CPU loads.

    Janosax's example demonstrates why some apps need to be fixed: "recording Gadget in Blocs wave though Audiobus is only possible at 44.1 kHz. On 7 Plus I have to use at least earpods or lightning to jack adapter but not speakers."

    And I thought it was confirmed numerous times that the Apple Lightning>3.5mm Adapter was locked at 48kHz, but it looks like Janosax can use it at 44.1kHz.

    The 2018 Pro and 2019 Air/Mini likely have issues (crackling audio) when using very low latency buffers @48kHz while using headphones or the USB/Lightning>3.5mm adapter in all AUv3 hosts. Solution is to add more AUs (this forces the use of the A12s high-performance cores), or increase the buffer, or use an external audio interface.

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/29769/gen-3-ipad-pro-users-have-you-noticed-significant-cpu-spikes/p1
    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/29567/new-ipad-pro-sample-rate-problems/p1
    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/29552/ipad-pro-11-impressions/p1
    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/31881/apps-that-use-ipad-multicore-support/p1
    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/31820/iphone-xs-users-do-you-feel-stuttering/p1
    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/32132/new-ipad-mini-performance-test/p1

    Alright, I'm done for now. If anyone with with a new Air 3 or Mini 5 wants to test switching sample rates, then please post your results.

  • edited July 30

    man,i think i did too much research now.I wanted to buy the pro 10,5 but stumbled over the screen issue.I had a closer look at Air 3 instead but now this infos about crackling with small buffer combined with few and light apps.And this 48khz issue...makes me even not want ANY new ipad anymore.

    Thanks anyone for a lot (if not too much :smiley: ) useful infos!

  • @Crabman said:
    man,i think i did too much research now.I wanted to buy the pro 10,5 but stumbled over the screen issue.I had a closer look at Air 3 instead but now this infos about crackling with small buffer combined with few and light apps.And this 48khz issue...makes me even not want ANY new ipad anymore.

    Thanks anyone for a lot (if not too much :smiley: ) useful infos!

    It's a pita when using built-in speakers or headsets for sure but when using external audio interface it's not a problem.

    The irony here is that when recording video on the 'problem devices' the audio is recorded at 44.1k and not 48K which is de-facto standard for video. So yeah, Apple has some kind of identity crisis when it comes to sample-rates...

  • If i can‘t use it mobile properly (with headphones),what‘s the point? :) For studio use i have a lot of hardware and a Macbook,i used only this for 7 months now (after my Air 2 broke and i just can‘t use the small iphone screen) but i started to miss the ipad badly for the portable sessions...

  • @Crabman said:
    If i can‘t use it mobile properly (with headphones),what‘s the point? :) For studio use i have a lot of hardware and a Macbook,i used only this for 7 months now (after my Air 2 broke and i just can‘t use the small iphone screen) but i started to miss the ipad badly for the portable sessions...

    True, there was some 'thing' that when using a 'headset'(with mic) it's possible to to use 44.1K but with only headphones without mic it's 48K.

    Usually CoreAudio manages the re-sampling quite ok so it's possible to use Figure, iKaossilator, iMPCPro 2 iPhone etc. without any major issues. And AUM seems to run pretty decent too. I'm using an iPhone 8...

    Also have some AUv3's (Model D, Model 15, Poison-202, KQ Dixie, SquareSynth 2 to name a few). Also the Eventide and FAX stuff work properly.

    I'd say if you can hear what you're doing the sample-rate becomes a non issue, at least for me...

  • edited July 30

    My go to apps would be Cubasis,Auria Pro and Gadget.Along Audio Units of course.Need to investigate further.Or maybe i could live with the bright spot from the 10,5...

  • I just got the Air 3 a week or so ago and have been going through the iCloud restore getting rid of things, downloading others since the 256GB storage allows more apps, etc so haven’t done the tests I’ve seen on the forum re: the issue. AudioShare’s recorder, in settings, won’t allow any changes to 48khz but the other menu with mono, stereo, etc has other sample rates with a notice saying converted from 48khz.

    I recorded a few apps through Audio Share and the wave says it’s 44.1khz, with no audible artifacts, etc. This issue isn’t a deal breaker for me because I use an interface 90% of the time but not having full control over sampling rates, etc on these devices that go from $600 to over a grand is really lame. Hopefully it gets better but AUDIO pro’s obviously aren’t the pro’s Apple is catering too.

  • So dendy discovered that with Headphones, it's locked at 48kHz. With Headsets, which are headphones with microphone, it's at 44.1kHz. So 4-pole plug and mic required for 44.1kHz operation. And cannot trick iOS by using dummy 4-pole plug.

    Not happy that sample rate changes when I unplug headset to take a break. Speakers are locked at 48kHz. Messes up everything since most sample libraries aren't at 48kHz, but at 44.1kHz.

    Is there any change with iOS 13 or iPadOS? I wouldn't think so, since it's hardware, but thought I would ask anyway.

  • Interesting. I have a 4 pole plug lead with a mic that came with my Sennheiser Amperiors. Could be a way out for the synths I have that cannot convert the rate and have gone out of tune at 48k. Now....where did I put that lead.....

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