Any iOS apps like Kaivo from Madrona Labs?

Are there any iOS apps similar to Madrona Labs' Kaivo?

Comments

  • Write to Randy/Madrona Labs and beg him for an iOS version. You won’t be the first one 😊

  • edited January 10

    If you want to be creative, try combining Impaktor for percussive physical modeling, Laplace for tonal physical modeling and Quanta for the grainy granular stuff.
    Also, there's the AAS Objeq AUv3 effect that you can use as a resonator with different models after any sound source, your choice.
    It will not sound like Kaivo but it'll certainly stand on its own. There's a lot you can do.

    If you like building things with Lego bricks, you could build "your own Kaivo" in PureData and run it as an IAA instrument by means of MobMuPlat for iOS.

  • edited January 10

    Let's get this out of the way: IMO there is nothing else like Kaivo on any platform, period. As I recall from an interview (this one I think), part of the problem Randy was trying to solve is how to make a (flexible) physical modeling synth that doesn't have the squeaky clean character these tend to have (compared to real or sampled instruments), but while keeping the whole thing musical and playable. Using granular synthesis as exciter was part of his brilliant solution. But what makes the package unique is how incredibly musical and flexible the whole implementation ended up..

    I agree with @rs2000 that in practical terms, the current iOS options are going to be split between self-contained synths that only do part of the whole equation (I'd add tardigrain to @rs2000's synth suggestions for auv3, and ipulsaret if you don't mind IAA), and building some complex Frankenstein arrangement of your own - either the hard way in something like PD, or finding some clever way of chaining something like quanta or tardigrain with the likes of Objeq (but also convolution (even just a simple ir loader like fiddlicator; a full on convolution reverb combined with Diego Stocco style tricks is also worth exploring) and a playable EQ like apefilter (that thing takes midi notes as input); followed up with something like apefilter and/or IR, a reverb like Amazing noises FDN can generate resonator-like sounds at extremely small room settings (with very interesting response thanks to things like its reactive walls setting).

    Personally I'd focus on the Frankenstein solution, feeding complex sound from something like a granular synth to a chain of effects that behaves like a resonator. The open question I'd have is what's the best platform to keep the workflow nice and tight. (I have stuck to the usual suspects so far, but maybe something like ZMors modular is worth exploring since it can host auv3.) The main bottleneck in my own experiments has been making the resonator's pitch/character playable. Objeq is great, but, e.g., at a fixed pitch it's just not going to cut it.

    Edit: Using the Frankenstein approach, Turnado is probably worth looking into actually. YMMV.
    Edit 2: Didn't emphasize the potential of apefilter enough above. It does Midi note to frequency conversion on its own. So Tardigrain into apefilter controlling both with the same midi note might be worth a shot as a starting point, going on to experiment with things like object and/or FDN in between.

  • PS: Can you all hear whispers of Drambo (Drambo, Drambo, Drambo) bringing our hopes up?

  • @ohwell said:
    PS: Can you all hear whispers of Drambo (Drambo, Drambo, Drambo) bringing our hopes up?

    I love these posts that are so many words that I just don't understand but still have me thinking at the same time. I'm not new to synths but pretty new to synthesis and am just on fire with enthusiasm for it all. Someday I'll understand your first post but for now ...
    I'm pretty stoked for Drambo. Drambo ... it rolls off the tongue. Drambo!!!!!! Sort of like Crambo!!!!

  • ps - i recently purchased Aalto and knew it was seriously over my head but didn't want to pass up the discount. It is going to be my winter project, along with some others.

  • @kinkujin I'm terrible at writing short and to the point, my posts being a headache to read is 100% on me...

    Willing to bet Aalto won't be over your head. The presets are a helpful starting point. If you like diving in headfirst the UI is a great coach. If you prefer to read manuals too, the manual is nice and fun.

  • @ohwell said:
    @kinkujin I'm terrible at writing short and to the point, my posts being a headache to read is 100% on me...

    Willing to bet Aalto won't be over your head. The presets are a helpful starting point. If you like diving in headfirst the UI is a great coach. If you prefer to read manuals too, the manual is nice and fun.

    Not at all man, keep it coming.

  • edited January 10

    @ohwell said:
    The open question I'd have is what's the best platform to keep the workflow nice and tight. (I have stuck to the usual suspects so far, but maybe something like ZMors modular is worth exploring since it can host auv3.) The main bottleneck in my own experiments has been making the resonator's pitch/character playable. Objeq is great, but, e.g., at a fixed pitch it's just not going to cut it.

    That's why I recommended Laplace. Exciters and properly pitched resonators. It's very simple in comparison but its sounds can tell something.
    When I summarized my idea of doing it on iOS, I listened to various Kaivo audio demos and I didn't care about its specs at all, just about how to get that sound on iOS.
    I've done many PM experiments on the Nord Modular in the past so I guess I know how that stuff sounds ;)

    About the platform for managing Frankenstein: I guess, ApeMatrix would be a good candidate because you can connect the extremities and save the whole setup.

    Edit: Using the Frankenstein approach, Turnado is probably worth looking into actually. YMMV.

    I've worked with it for a while and although the idea is fantastic, the effects themselves sound like a very mixed bag to me. So, even more Frankenstein by using different IAA and AUv3 FX.

    Edit 2: Didn't emphasize the potential of apefilter enough above. It does Midi note to frequency conversion on its own. So Tardigrain into apefilter controlling both with the same midi note might be worth a shot as a starting point, going on to experiment with things like object and/or FDN in between.

    Good idea! There is no filter like ApeFilter 👍🏼

  • @rs2000 I totally see your point about Laplace. It's great at what it does. Having read @espiegel123's other threads, I'm guessing he's familiar with the likes of Laplace, and is bringing up Kaivo for the things it does that simpler PM synths like Laplace just can't do. There's quite a lot there, but the first thing that comes to mind is the range of options that open up when you replace simple one shot exciters and/or contiuous noise generators with granular synthesis... From the Kaivo page, the Surachai demo is more clearly in that direction.

  • @ohwell : fwiw, I am not familiar with Laplace.

  • @espiegel123 It's def worth exploring then. The exciters are basically clicks/bursts and continuous noise (with envelope) so don't expect the kind of madness we hear in the Surachai demo. Come to think of it, if you haven't explored the icegear PM stuff, Kronecker is also worth a shot. (Maybe worth trying before Laplace? YMMV) It has 4 independent voices, and the exciters for each can be triggered through a per voice step sequencer.

  • @ohwell said:
    @espiegel123 It's def worth exploring then. The exciters are basically clicks/bursts and continuous noise (with envelope) so don't expect the kind of madness we hear in the Surachai demo. Come to think of it, if you haven't explored the icegear PM stuff, Kronecker is also worth a shot. (Maybe worth trying before Laplace? YMMV) It has 4 independent voices, and the exciters for each can be triggered through a per voice step sequencer.

    How does is it do for "explosive" attacks. One of the things that I like about the Kaivo examples that I have heard (besides the lovely 'dirt' that makes things not seem as sanitary as many 'pluck' sims can be) is the possibility of a sort of explosive pluck attack followed by the 'string' taking a while to settle down.

    I've just watched a couple of vids. It looks interesting. Any favorite videos or recordings that prominently feature it?

    Tx

  • edited January 11

    Guys, you have to try Quanta and apeFilter in ApeMatrix!
    I wasn't such a fan of Quanta initially because I preferred the sonic smoothness of Spacecraft. But for synth sound design, more biting attacks and insane modulations, Quanta is unique.
    Thanks to @ohwell's hint at apeFilter's "resonator" pitchable by MIDI, I've just added Quanta as a generator and apeFilter as a MIDI-controllable effect in apeMatrix, then went to the MIDI matrix and routed the input MIDI port (in my case Genome MIDI) to both Quanta and apeFilter.
    Using the MIDI filter function in apeMatrix, you can even use the Transpose slider in the apeMatrix MIDI matrix for sound design!
    I bet you haven't heard such sounds yet!!!

  • edited January 12

    @rs2000 I’ll have to try the transpose in apematrix with apeFilter. Btw, last time I tried routing notes to apeFilter I didn’t like the way it responds to note off (I wished it would stay on the last note until I give it a new note.) I can think of fixes but I didn’t explore them yet. Has that been an issue for you? I’d be curious to whatever solutions you found.

    About quanta, I agree the thing is amazing. Really nothing against it outside of how tired it makes my air 2. ;) Heck, I like the modulators and mod matrix so much that I’ve been tempted to make it more of a go to synth even for stuff that doesn’t obviously call for granular synthesis.

    @espiegel123 Not sure about explosive attacks on either Laplace or Kronecker. Don’t have time to explore right now.

    On Kaivo, have you played around with the demo? IMO that’s the best way to explore it..

  • @ohwell : I haven't explored the demo as I was looking to see if something on iOS was similar. :)

  • edited January 12

    @espiegel123 Another possibility for that Frankenstein approach, along with ZMors modular might be Moebius Lab from Amazing Noises/apeSoft dev. It hosts the fx and synths mentioned above, all chainable, feedback loops can be created as needed, it’s got an apestyle suite of fx and there’s more assignable LFOs than you’ll ever need....it’s a monster

  • @Littlewoodg : appreciate the tips. Moebius Lab is great (already have it).

  • edited January 13

    @espiegel123 said:
    @Littlewoodg : appreciate the tips. Moebius Lab is great (already have it).

    It is a must have, in fact I should thank you, this thread got me to pull it out again
    Load with mersenne as source and it’s off to the races

  • The (module) connection method is really smart and the chap seems a cool dude :+1:
    But the animation isn't my cup of tea at all - sound is quite nice, though not that special to make me bite.

    For myself 'resonating' synth engines delivered the most interesting results when the effect section's output was also sent into the engine's feedback path.
    (not the fx isolated at the end of the chain)
    Occasionally these feedback setups could be quite unstable and produce extreme (!) jumps in output level.

  • @Littlewoodg said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @Littlewoodg : appreciate the tips. Moebius Lab is great (already have it).

    It is a must have, in fact I should thank you, this thread got me to pull it out again
    Load with mersenne as source and it’s off to the races

    I'd love to hear some examples!

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