AudioBus, AUM, ApeMatrix

I'd like to discuss these three utilities. Their strengths, weaknesses, irritations and at the least, how well they do at what they were designed to do.
I have a thread going about how to wrap my head around my setup (ios standalone and ios merged with external gear) and I thought, heck, I can't be the only relative noob to this platform who gets lost in the decision by what to use what app for.

I always appreciate your expertise...

Comments

  • Struggling trying to find a proper set up myself without wasting too much momey on trial and error; anxious to get back to music making. You def learn a lot in the process.

  • Following this thread, I don't have ApeMatrix yet but know the ends and outs of Audiobus and AUM pretty well. Maybe I can use the info given in this tread to make a video showcasing the strengths and weaknesses. Put a few setups to the test.

    The good and bad thing about iOS setups are, they are completely modular and customizable. They can literally be almost anything. So it is hard to find a setup that works for you on a consistent basis.

  • @breilly said:
    Struggling trying to find a proper set up myself without wasting too much momey on trial and error; anxious to get back to music making. You def learn a lot in the process.

    This is me exactly. I'm rapidly finding that I've spent a crazy amount of time "window shopping" all of my apps and not getting much done in any of them. It's been fun- great fun!, but it's time to get down to business. That being said, I'll plunk down 12 bux or 20 bux for what I need for my workflow.

  • I’m at a similar place.

    I want to use:

    • audiobus state saving and app switching
    • apematrix ease of hosting and routing
    • AUM’s multitrack recording
    • Link for sample accurate loops (my main goal)
    • Xequence and Rozeta for midi generation
    • And modulation (please see below)

    all at the same time!!!

    Can I? Been trying but not quite there yet, mostly cause I lack time to experiment.

    Modulation:
    I have a dream, where you can play animoog or model 15/d (f.e.) into some sequencer and it will record everything, like just slide your finger up and down the scale and record all that MPE magic.
    As I’m aware this doesn’t exist yet, right?

  • @pedro said:
    I’m at a similar place.

    I want to use:

    • audiobus state saving and app switching
    • apematrix ease of hosting and routing
    • AUM’s multitrack recording

    You've basically described the primary features of each app (actually, a really big feature of apeMatrix are the LFOs)

    For me, I use a Combination of AudioBus and AUM.
    Audiobus for State Saving of IAA only apps (which mostly support Audiobus State Saving) as well as the Audiobus control bar (occasionally using the separate Audiobus Remote for greater control).
    I use AUM instead of apeMatrix specifically because I need to record stems of each channel. Until apeMatrix gets that ability, it doesn't work for me (but I know the matrix and control capabilities would be right up my alley).

    • Link for sample accurate loops (my main goal)

    Link is fantastic, but it's not critical. If apps support IAA sync or are AudioUnits they get their sync from the host they are in. This is actually better than Link. As long as the hosts support Link (they all do) you're set for syncing with non-hosted apps or other devices.

    • Xequence and Rozeta for midi generation

    Don't know as much about Xequence. I assume it's standalone and you sync with Link and route MIDI the old fashioned way.

    Rozeta can be hosted by any of the three hosts mentioned.

    • And modulation (please see below)

    all at the same time!!!

    Can I? Been trying but not quite there yet, mostly cause I lack time to experiment.

    You can. Audiobus plus one of the others will get everything you need; of course you could use all three if you wanted to get all the features.

    Modulation:
    I have a dream, where you can play animoog or model 15/d (f.e.) into some sequencer and it will record everything, like just slide your finger up and down the scale and record all that MPE magic.
    As I’m aware this doesn’t exist yet, right?

    You can record parameter automation direct from the plugin knobs / sliders in Beatmaker 3 with AUv3s (so, yes to Model 15, no to Animoog). However, I don't think that MPE controls are recorded; not sure, I don't have any MPE apps to test.

    Other sequencers will require mapping to control the plugin's parameters.

  • @aplourde Very nice summary, thanks for that.

    Xequence gets AudioBus support in short time, but I'm not in the beta and don't know if it will have IAA Sync...

    Maybe @SevenSystems will comment

  • @tja sync will be via Ableton Link and Audiobus and will include tempo, phase (beat) and start / stop. No absolute song position sync if that's what you were asking :)

  • @aplourde thanks for the thoughtful breakdown.
    You’re right AUM and apematrix is overkill but I really prefer the matrix for routing. With apematrix I’m limited to 3 stereo outs but it’s ok for the moment.
    Too bad I can’t record the MPE as I find most of the expression comes from playing those synths with the blade keyboard, with all the perfect glissandos.
    Xequence is standalone, yes, but good to know @tja it’ll get audiobus, so then maybe I‘ll be able to use state saving with it.

  • @pedro state saving will definitely be included :)

  • edited August 25

    @SevenSystems great to know! I love your app and this makes it even better

  • Maybe I can use the info given in this tread to make a video showcasing the strengths and weaknesses. Put a few setups to the test.

    @gmslayton I’d love it if you did. :blush:

  • This has been great so far. I think if ApeMatrix had the ability to record multiple stems it would be perfect. I wonder if this is on the devs list? This is the one I think I have my eye on.

  • "Necroing" this thread because i've been wondering if anyone ever uses all three together. AB, AUM and ApeMatrix. Did anyone try that?

  • @kinkujin I will do some testing and see what I can come up with. A lot of what everyone is asking, I have had similar thoughts/problems/etc.

    I have been thinking about how old school folks got stuff done. I mean plenty of great albums were created using 4-track recorders. I have also noticed some of the great producers and beat makers use audio over recording everything in midi. There is a give and take with both approaches.

    If we record everything in Midi, notes, automation, MPE events, etc. then yes, we can always go back and change something at a later date but ultimately it will become an audio file for someone else to listen to. If we always record dry signals, midi everything so we can change things or add things, do we have commitment problems?

    AUM/Audiobus/ApeMatrix are all great tools and have their advantages and weakness for different needs but we need to think about what our end goal is. Live performance? Recording a Song? Each would required different setups and could use a combination of the big 3.

    I don't think I got to off topic from the original post. @kinkujin what are your goals? that might help me better understand how to compare the 3 as well.

  • @senhorlampada I've used AUM to get external audio into apeMatrix (prior to the most recent update) but I've not needed to use AudioBus in addition. I could see the use if you were sending everything into apeMatrix as the hub for instance then out to another DAW like Cubasis....

  • I always think of these three products in a few ways:

    1. They work as routes between apps. iOS has very few apps that all encompass the abilities that certain apps have. There is not one DAW that does it all or can usefully use all the great features of certain apps. Yes, this is getting less of a problem as iOS matures, but often I find situations where I’m having to use more than one app beyond the usual host + vst type scenario. These apps help in these situations.

    2. Live jamming where the current range of DAWs are cumbersome. These apps are often the easy way to bung a few apps together and switch between them in a ‘live’ playing session. They still lack in certain areas for then taking that material into a more DAW + situation, but the growth of certain AU and AU midi apps will I believe make this situation better in time.

    3. Fast and stable ways to try out different set ups. Again, it’s not easy then to transfer this to other more encompassing DAWs, but it’s still great to have all these routing options. iOS users are often love to try something new, and these products help.

    4. Even when iOS DAWs get better, more capable, more fluid and easier to use in differing scenarios, having options is always a good thing. I say we need even more of these types of product.

  • Lots of ways that work. My go to’s:

    A. Any sequencing/song production/progression changing etc is done in gadget. Top to bottom, and i then export to auria to mix.

    B. Any loop creating (usually for zurich in gadget) or old style midi type synth jams are done in aum, where i only use au plugins and save, close and open like i left it. With cells i have a little more advanced sequencing ability.

    C. Mix or prepare stems in auria. Hopefully they correct the midi issues and i might skip aum in the future.

  • @gmslayton said:
    @kinkujin I will do some testing and see what I can come up with. A lot of what everyone is asking, I have had similar thoughts/problems/etc.

    I have been thinking about how old school folks got stuff done. I mean plenty of great albums were created using 4-track recorders. I have also noticed some of the great producers and beat makers use audio over recording everything in midi. There is a give and take with both approaches.

    If we record everything in Midi, notes, automation, MPE events, etc. then yes, we can always go back and change something at a later date but ultimately it will become an audio file for someone else to listen to. If we always record dry signals, midi everything so we can change things or add things, do we have commitment problems?

    AUM/Audiobus/ApeMatrix are all great tools and have their advantages and weakness for different needs but we need to think about what our end goal is. Live performance? Recording a Song? Each would required different setups and could use a combination of the big 3.

    I don't think I got to off topic from the original post. @kinkujin what are your goals? that might help me better understand how to compare the 3 as well.

    Oh gee, don't go doing this just for me. I'm more curious than anything. I own all three apps and always like to watch videos to see what I am missing or if I just have tunnel-vision in my thinking of how to use a tool. For instance, DaveyPoo's ApeMatrix vids really helped me to get a handle on the app. Sometimes I just get intimidated by tech side of the tools. Thanks for asking!

  • @kinkujin - Here's my $0.02 (which has been repeated here often).

    I see AUM, AudioBus and apeMatrix as being similar but different tools in my toolbox. It's like owning a claw hammer, a ball-peen hammer and a rubber hammer. Yes - they are all hammers, but they are made with different end-results in mind and for different purposes. While you CAN use a claw hammer for the same job as a rubber hammer, you definitely wouldn't get the same results or even use it in the same way to get you there.

    You can definitely use them together, but as Mitch mentioned above - what's the end game/goal? I all three apps all the time, but for different things.

  • @gmslayton said:
    @kinkujin I will do some testing and see what I can come up with. A lot of what everyone is asking, I have had similar thoughts/problems/etc.

    I have been thinking about how old school folks got stuff done. I mean plenty of great albums were created using 4-track recorders. I have also noticed some of the great producers and beat makers use audio over recording everything in midi. There is a give and take with both approaches.

    If we record everything in Midi, notes, automation, MPE events, etc. then yes, we can always go back and change something at a later date but ultimately it will become an audio file for someone else to listen to. If we always record dry signals, midi everything so we can change things or add things, do we have commitment problems?

    I started with tape decks, then moved up to 4 track, I think that’s probably why I don’t save finished tracks as MIDI - everything I do is bounced down to audio. Stops me fiddling, and keeps CPU usage down.

  • @MonzoPro said:

    @gmslayton said:
    @kinkujin I will do some testing and see what I can come up with. A lot of what everyone is asking, I have had similar thoughts/problems/etc.

    I have been thinking about how old school folks got stuff done. I mean plenty of great albums were created using 4-track recorders. I have also noticed some of the great producers and beat makers use audio over recording everything in midi. There is a give and take with both approaches.

    If we record everything in Midi, notes, automation, MPE events, etc. then yes, we can always go back and change something at a later date but ultimately it will become an audio file for someone else to listen to. If we always record dry signals, midi everything so we can change things or add things, do we have commitment problems?

    I started with tape decks, then moved up to 4 track, I think that’s probably why I don’t save finished tracks as MIDI - everything I do is bounced down to audio. Stops me fiddling, and keeps CPU usage down.

    And that's probably why you have albums on BandCamp and I have snippets on iPad.

  • @kinkujin said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    @gmslayton said:
    @kinkujin I will do some testing and see what I can come up with. A lot of what everyone is asking, I have had similar thoughts/problems/etc.

    I have been thinking about how old school folks got stuff done. I mean plenty of great albums were created using 4-track recorders. I have also noticed some of the great producers and beat makers use audio over recording everything in midi. There is a give and take with both approaches.

    If we record everything in Midi, notes, automation, MPE events, etc. then yes, we can always go back and change something at a later date but ultimately it will become an audio file for someone else to listen to. If we always record dry signals, midi everything so we can change things or add things, do we have commitment problems?

    I started with tape decks, then moved up to 4 track, I think that’s probably why I don’t save finished tracks as MIDI - everything I do is bounced down to audio. Stops me fiddling, and keeps CPU usage down.

    And that's probably why you have albums on BandCamp and I have snippets on iPad.

    Low quality control is the secret to my output!

  • I find any of these lend to endless mucking about and not completing anything.

    If anyone else has this problem try a DAW or groovebox app (I prefer BM3 and Caustic 3 )

  • @dustgod said:

    If anyone else has this problem try a DAW or groovebox app...

    ...and face the same problems with hitting limitations of the app.

    If you’re someone who gets irritated by limitations of a single app you should start viewing iOS as a modular system. Otherwise just go with a single app environment like gadget or bm3.

  • @supadom said:

    @dustgod said:

    If anyone else has this problem try a DAW or groovebox app...

    ...and face the same problems with hitting limitations of the app.

    If you’re someone who gets irritated by limitations of a single app you should start viewing iOS as a modular system. Otherwise just go with a single app environment like gadget or bm3.

    Yes, some people work well like that, I was speaking as someone who doesn't like endless options, to others who might be struggling with productivity with these types of apps.

    I understand many do well with them.

  • @dustgod said:

    @supadom said:

    @dustgod said:

    If anyone else has this problem try a DAW or groovebox app...

    ...and face the same problems with hitting limitations of the app.

    If you’re someone who gets irritated by limitations of a single app you should start viewing iOS as a modular system. Otherwise just go with a single app environment like gadget or bm3.

    Yes, some people work well like that, I was speaking as someone who doesn't like endless options, to others who might be struggling with productivity with these types of apps.

    I understand many do well with them.

    Ok, I'm getting your angle now. It is definitely true from the productivity standpoint. Because live is my primary use I seem to use the same modular set up that has been slowly evolving over time. This lets me stay focused.

    Don't get me wrong, I do get momentarily sidetracked by the new releases but more often than not, if they don't click with me or don't offer anything special over what I already have I cloud them away pretty quickly.

  • @supadom said:

    Because live is my primary use <

    Same here, which seems to make it even more difficult to find out about the relative strengths of AudioBus/AUM/ApeMatrix, since most discussion seems to be based around using apps in a music production environment. At this point, I'm not interested in using iOS for any kind of DAW functions. No sequencing, no looping, no song production... I'm just looking to integrate sounds from multiple apps for live performance via a couple of keyboards (which would perform double duty as iOS controllers and as sound sources themselves). There are some apps that are geared toward this... i.e. iMidiPatchbay, Keystage, and probably the forthcoming Camelot Pro. What I don't know is what AudioBus/AUM/ApeMatrix offer in this environment, whether there is reason to use one (or more) of them in conjunction with (or maybe even instead of) the others I mentioned. (I have no need to route audio from one app into another.)

    Does anyone here use any combination of AudioBus/AUM/ApeMatrix specifically for real-time live performance, in an environment as I described? If so, what do you find most appealing about it?

  • @anotherscott2 I have used AUM in live settings, hosting a few apps and routing midi from my axiom 49 and Launchpad Pro to the specific apps. ApeMatrix would offer a similar setup although I have not used it in a live setup.

    The biggest thing to consider is if the app is AUv3, then midi routing is fine and would be controlled/routed via the host app, AUM or apematrix.

    If the app is IAA, then make sure the app does not listen to every app. IAA does not take over midi. If the app is always set to omni and cannot be changed then your option would be to just mute that channel if you didn't want it to play. Other IAA apps may allow the channel to be changed but listen to all sources. Which can also get in the way sometimes.

    I would not see a need for using all 3 apps or even a combination of the 3 AUM/audiobus/apematrix in your setup if you are just wanting them as a sound source. When you start throwing in looping then thats a different story.

    Both AUM and ApeMatrix allow for send/bus channels for effects, which is nice as well.

  • edited December 10

    {re-posting because I seem to have accidentally deleted my earlier post, to which gmslayton replied, thanks}

    @supadom said:
    live is my primary use

    Same here, which seems to make it even more difficult to find out about the relative strengths of AudioBus/AUM/ApeMatrix, since most discussion seems to be based around using apps in a music production environment. At this point, I'm not interested in using iOS for any kind of DAW functions. No sequencing, no looping, no song production... I'm just looking to integrate sounds from multiple apps for live performance via a couple of keyboards (which would perform double duty as iOS controllers and as sound sources themselves). There are some apps that are geared toward this... i.e. iMidiPatchbay, Keystage, and probably the forthcoming Camelot Pro. What I don't know is what AudioBus/AUM/ApeMatrix offer in this environment, whether there is reason to use one (or more) of them in conjunction with (or maybe even instead of) the others I mentioned. (I have no need to route audio from one app into another.)

    Does anyone here use any combination of AudioBus/AUM/ApeMatrix specifically for real-time live performance, in an environment as I described? If so, what do you find most appealing about it?

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