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Native Instruments insanity DO NOT BUY Second Hand
On the off-chance that others here also like to dabble with hardware, specifically DJ gear, I'm relating my current situation, as a warning.
After a little jiggery pokery with equipment that was plain busted, I bought an A rated, perfect working order Traktor Kontrol S2 MK2 from CEX. For those not familiar, this is a large concern in the UK, and other countries, legitimately dealing in quality second hand electricals. Anyway, I duly received the hardware, and began to set things up... only to find that I could not register the product in my name, despite having the original card details, etc.
It turns out that NI have an utterly inflexible and frankly preposterous policy, whereby they will not allow second-hand hardware to be re-registered unless the original owner has first requested de-registering. So if someone simply forgets, or can't be bothered, the second owner is stuffed. NI actually told me that I should return the hardware to where I bought it.
While security is always an issue, of course, it seems nonsensical to me that someone who has the original paperwork (which a thief is very unlikely to have) and can prove that the product was bought from a legitimate source, should be treated this way. NI are basically making their own product useless, which in turn when this is more widely known, will result in fewer people buying because selling on at a later date will be made impossible. Places like CEX won't accept goods that have to be returned because the maker chooses to leave them crippled.
As a result, I will NEVER buy any NI software or hardware again, and as promised will be taking to social media for the next 6 months in an effort to warn others that this is what they can expect, under similar circumstances, from Native Instruments. A company without common sense, who clearly does't give a toss about second owners.
Comments
They do respect the native title though
I've bought lots of stuff from CEX but I wonder if they shouldn't take some responsibility for ensuring products are deregistered too.
If it doesn't work as advertised you're entitled to a full refund.
Before you buy any used hardware software item used you have to make sure you can register it. Lots of companies have that exact same policy.
It's a common practice for the seller to deregister the hardware/software. That's how licenses work.
Whenever I sold my Maschine (sold it and bought others several times because I can't afford keeping lots of gear) I met with the buyer at my office, and deregistered it under his assistance. But again, not all sellers have good faith like me.
Yeah a nightmare though it is, I see the ultimate blame being owned by CEX.
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Sure, and CEX would have no issue with that. But my point is the hardware works fine, the only impediment is NI's attitude.
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Yeah, but if they asked the original owner if he'd deregistered, and he said yes, they'd take that on good faith. Again, NI should have no problem switching reg providing proof of ownership can be provided.
Yeah that's true.
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I feel sure that if I complained, CEX would allow a refund. But I like the hardware, and by adopting an alternate approach I know it works.
Your post title should read 'DO NOT BUY SECONDHAND'
Just heard back from Judith at NI, who has marked the issue solved, because they haven't heard back from the original owner. Her entirely unhelpful suggestion is to return the hardware.
An ounce of common sense could easily have sorted this out. Instead, NI have permanantly lost a customer, who will relate this tale far and wide. Pillocks.
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Fair point. I will attempt to change.
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if they do it just this one time, it will spread ... and then they'll have to do it again and again
because people will quote your case
Its ok to buy secondhand Native-instrument products if you make sure the seller
goes here https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/209566129-How-to-Request-a-License-Transfer-ID-to-Sell-Your-NI-Product
and does that.
That is precisely my point. They should do it every time, providing proof of purchase can be shown. Rigidly sticking to a policy where the original owner can render something useless is stupid.
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An impractical plan for people who buy from CEX, or on-line. Once a seller has his cash, and isn't concerned, NI's policy is to effectively render the product useless. There is no justifiable excuse for no using common sense. NI are just a bunch of gits who don't care unless you buy directly from them. As a result, they've probably lost sever hundred quid from me in 2017.
It wouldn't be impractical for CEX to do it though as a routine part of their testing when they buy stuff in
I'm certain they would - if people were willing to pay extra staff costs.
Their customer base doesn't count in 2 figure amounts worldwide
You seem to have few ideas about running a software business of that scale.
Might be a bit off-topic, but buying First-Hand from NI is barely alright. Doing computer upgrades & migration all week, and NI's unprofessional / rude phone support blatantly told me, dude your version is too old, just buy the new one. Only after emailing them again did they fix my issue quietly behind the scenes, but their actual email reply was strangely unrelated and unhelpful. A bit of hit or miss I guess.
I have a Z1 and a F1, both for $/€ 100 a piece via NI's site above (if so requested). You may also pay in iTunes Code same price worth. After Payment is done, you'll get the tracecode of the package. Pretty much off topic but the buyer at least gets a native title plus registersh..
Ze Germans have had always a native feeling on this world, and the contract law makes it possible for setting these kind of terms. Imo not really practical/ professional, unnecessary wasting of time unless you knew before etcetera, etcetera, blaw, blaw, bla.
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Exactly. They'd need to set it up with a PC or Mac. There just isn't the time.
@Nkersov While I do like their hardware and software, I would be the absolute LAST to defend Native Instrument's support. I have my own issue with them right now.
But in this case I have to disagree a bit.
NI has one of the clearest and easiest policies in the entire music industry for transferring their hardware and software to another owner.
There are many companies that absolutely forbid the transfer of software under any circumstances. So if you spend a few hundred on their products and don't like them, you are screwed. There are others companies that allow you to transfer easily, but some make it very complicated.
IMHO the issue is not with NI or with buying products second hand. The responsibility to do this right is with the original owner and with CEX. If the owner doesn't know what's involved, then CEX should know how things work with NI--that's their business. I've sold a lot of software and gear and have never done so without doing everything possible to make sure the buyer is given a fair deal.
Extra staff costs! Don't be ridiculous. The same woman who e-mails to tell me she won't have over the code could easily include it. They simply don't give a shit.
And if CEX dont have the time to set up each deck that comes in, and the seller can't be bothered, peeps like me are left to dangle. I repeat, providing proof of purchase can be given, NI could very easily release the code.
The thing is, never one to be defeated by this kind of nonsense, I am happily using the S3 MK2 without NI's help. But the incident leaves a very bad taste, and I will not buy anything from them ever again.
NI are not perfect, but your gripe is with CEX, in this case, they sold you the controller not NI, if they didn't inform you it was crippled, then it's not fit for purpose, if they refuse to refund your money, contact your local trading standards and/or citizen's advice.
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Not the way I see it. The hardware is perfect. The only reason I can't download NI software and register the product with them, is their crappy policy.
I don't like trash talk threads about a single instance of a company.
NI products are great in my opinion.
CEX are the one's at fault here IMHO. If they stock, and sell a product then it's their responsibility to ensure it works as stated. They make a profit from doing so, but if it's not cost effective to sell hardware linked to a software license then they shouldn't be selling it.
CEX are the one's making money from this transaction, not NI.
Cex surely do a test to make sure it's working before they buy it in. Making sure all software licenses listed on the box are available could be made part of that process.