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Should I clean and fix before selling?
I’m about to sell my vintage synths that I haven’t used for a very long time. What I’d like is your opinion of whether I should clean the pots and switches, or leave them alone for the new owner to attend to themselves.
Much of what I’m switching on has, as to be expected, noisy pots and sliders. In some cases, a bit of a wiggle will see them through, but in many cases, I’d prefer more attention be given to them. However, with vintage equipment, I’d want to be careful exactly how this was done. At first I was loathe to sell them, not because they’re lovely bits of kit and I want to keep them, but rather, because I didn’t want to hand over equipment that wasn’t in as good a condition as I could coerce it into.
Now I’m starting to think that it might be better to leave the things exactly as I find them, and describe the situation (nobody expects vintage gear to be 100% perfect). If the new owner wants to give a coat of attention themselves, or if they want to get it pro serviced, that’ll be up to them. Switch and pot cleaning can have a bit of a legacy. You can spray anything into them and they’ll appear to work smoothly and cleanly, but years later it cakes into a mess requiring soaking each pot in isopropyl alcohol and soldering back in. I think I’d rather leave them as is, now.
- Should I9 votes
- spray the pots, sliders and switches33.33%
- don’t introduce any products at all66.67%
Comments
Every time I salivate over a hardware synth, the spirit of Lao Tzu slap me in the ghostface. but still i don't rectify my mentation...
I'd be tempted to leave as is, if the pots are pretty knackered it could be the tracks are too worn. You probably know this, but 'servisol' is considered to be good contact cleaner.
Gotta weigh any risk that they might get damaged in the process, the amount of time it would take, any extra you might be able to sell them for, and whether you would have a market if you leave them as they are. I would try to sell them as is initially, and if I couldn't get a buyer, or the price I expect, then I'd clean/fix them.
They’re not really wrecked, just noisy, but in a few cases quite noisy, which doesn’t diminish with wiggling. There’s one wrecked pot so far, which is the MC-202 tempo pot, and that still surprisingly works, even though it’s pushed in and slack. I think that’s actually an easy fix, it’ll just be the base material popped out of the pot housing’s two grips. The 202 VCF freq is not smooth sounding though, it’s a bit chalky. I’ve just fired up the SH-09 and found everything reasonably healthy after much wiggling, but the volume pot is surprisingly noisy through the whole travel, without going away. The CSQ-600 I put next to it to test seems nice, but somewhere between the two I got portamento briefly, then not, but some wiggling of both portamento pots, and clearing the pattern in the CSQ sorted that. I suspect it had random portamento in the sequence memory. It’s a lovely pair, that CSQ-600 and SH-09 beside each other.
Oh, the Poly-800 is still stone dead, though. Disappointing. Probably an easy fix, but I don’t have any decent test gear any more.
And I did find a Korg X-911 that surprisingly tracks my guitar, but doesn’t do any filter env following (could be just the way I had it set, I should try the extensive range of CV/gate/trig in/out jacks on the back, with something else feeding it). Switch missing on that one, too.
Even these three, I checked the batteries for leakage, which they aren’t doing, but I’d say should be replaced soonish. I was going to desolder the batteries and put CR2032 holders in, but now I’m tempted to just tell the new owner to replace them themselves (and give them a CR2032 holder, as I have a bunch of them that don’t pin for pin fit, but could be wired in).
I’ve just photographed the CSQ-600 and SH-09, they look so nice together.
That could be because the carbon is too worn on the tracks and no amount of contact cleaner will solve that.
It's not something I would undertake lightly - trying to renovate old gear. I know nothing about doing that with synths, but I did rebuild a very old Vox AC30 top boost (on tag board / point to point wiring !) and pretty much had to replace all the components.
No, not in this case. They were okay when I put them up in the attic 16 years ago (except for the Arp 2600, which I bought partly faulty and still is). It’s just general dust and detritus of the seasons, rather than wear — on the contrary, they’ve had quite a nice rest. The trouble is, I think they were resting on the MC-202s tempo knob!
100% this. Or at least that's that path I've taken over the decades.
A tip i got from a local recording engineer was to vacuum the dust out of faders, rather than blow them out. Blowing can force some of the crud under the wiper that makes contact with the carbon strip and make it not work.
I'd hit it with the contact cleaner after a vac. Don't see how it could make anything worse. It doesn't hurt the carbon strips or the metal pieces. If it still doesn't work then there is either too much crud or the wiper has worn through the carbon strip. You can sometimes take them apart, and bend the wiper over a little to make contact with a fresh part of the carbon track, if you don't want to replace the pots or faders.
Just don't get any cleaner on the shafts of the pots, some people think you squirt those, but it ends up washing the grease out and the pot seizes up. You just want it in the gap in the bottom shell where the solder lugs are.
A dismantling and photographing day today. The CSQ-600 (like all CSQ-600s) has a leaked, rotting (but still actually performing) NiCd cell on the board. I expected the worst but once inside I was quite pleased at the fairly minimal damage. Yes, there’s acid leakage in the area of the board, but it’s certainly able to be replaced and then tidied up, so it’s not the end of the world. Oh, and by the way, playing with it and the SH-09 yesterday, this is seriously far too much fun (shame it’s also far too big). If there were a touch screen exact emulation of the CSQ-600 — no more, no less (except midi, of course) — I’m sure it’d be a reasonable hit (until people want added features).
By the way, I used to have a CSQ-100 before it. Nowhere near as much fun. Just a CV sequence record and playback-er. A dumb metal box. This thing, the CSQ-600, there’s definitely emotional attachment from first sight (or certainly first run).
I just got this down, to photograph. As I was doing so, the only thought running through my mind was “are you absolutely insane?”.
I've had digital hardware synths but never analog or hybrids using real pots & older sliders. I do have lots experience with guitars, vintage guitars as well, and when selling/buying I think having the piece in as close to original condition as possible is best.
Two reasons I ran into all the time was, 1)a collector or someone who really wasn't going to gig or play the instrument and preferred to have it as original as possible to keep the vintage lineage etc.
2) is when someone wants the instrument to play or record with but has preferences of their own for types of pots, wiring, etc. Better sell a keyboard/synth/guitar/snare drum, etc. AS-IS and then if the new owner wants to play it and not turn it into a museum piece they get to decide just how far the route to making the thing a playable instrument should go.
Good luck if you decide to unload any, they are sweet brother, that Oberheim and the Mono/Poly especially.
Be cool...
I'd leave as is. You may be able to get a slightly better price without the noisy pots, but in older gear, that's somewhat to be expected, you risk the potential to damage something, and the truth of the matter is...these items aren't exactly common - someone looking to buy these isn't likely to find another version of it elsewhere in better condition, at least not at the time you're selling it. So, if they really want it, they're going to buy it noisy pots and faders or not.
I agree. And so does the poll — leave as is.
Having said that, I’ve taken the Mono/Poly apart, and am giving the keyboard contacts a bit of a gentle non-alarming clean. It’s good to take the opportunity to do that, and the Mono/Poly is one of the most serviceable and simple to maintain synths ever — the lid is held on with four screws on the top panel outer edges, and three on the underside rear, and it just hinges out backwards (not on real hinges, but the cable harnesses hold it very firmly within range). It sits back nicely when opened.
Don’t worry, I used to be an electronics engineer back in the ’80s (avionics, out in Papua New Guinea, and later, doing fixing of industrial control computers in Sussex). I just wish I had any good test gear now (lusts after an oscilloscope, then thinks better of it).
This was up in the attic, I brought it down to photograph and diagnose. I’ve decided I won’t go into the electronics on this one, I’ll just describe the problem (highly noisy and crackly even just sitting there; s&h clock doesn’t work (but the s&h itself does if you externally clock it); AR env seems to have negative voltage output, VCA seems partly faulty; output amps are partly faulty (left is audible far more than right); and the processors seem to drag down the pitch of the voltage modifiers when they’re all pushed to max). The good news is the important parts — the three VCOs, the VCF and the ADSR all function well. The bad news is that some ’70s prog rocker has spray painted his name all over the case lid and the keyboard case lid. Would you credit it! Oh well.
Caig products http://www.caig.com/ are your friend and will not cause the issues you are worried about. Whether is it worth your time and trouble depends on the buyer and your offering price, there is no definitive known answer in advance.
For me as a seller I would have no problem cleaning the pots and switches and expect a higher price because of it. Re-capping and things of that nature, well maybe, it depends on what it would then sell for.
Ah but hang on, this Arp 2600 is not going to benefit greatly from minor maintenance such as pot cleaning, as there are much larger problems with it. All it would do is introduce a further uncontrolled variable in the mind of the eventual owner.
You're best to avoid uncontrolled variables of the mind’s eventual owner!
I've done some analog synth rehabilitation, most of the mysterious issues were solved by replacing the old electrolytic caps. Any of the electrolytic caps in there that are original are done. Also just methodically resoldering all of the points on the board with a little bit of fresh solder has solved problems plenty of times in old music gear. Ends up going quick.
Good luck!
My friend and partner @nisios has a synth repair workshop. He might have some good advices for you.
I know, but some people are fussy about it being in as close to ‘original’ as possible, and replacing caps with more modern more reliable and more accurate ones might make it less ‘authentic’ in the mind of a certain collector type of buyer.
Personally I’d be happy if it were rebuilt using modern equivalents — it’d be considerably better and more reliable, but it wouldn’t be the original. I’m not aware of anything in it that can’t be built better (especially the power supply, which was not really well done) and if one keeps going down that route, you might as well simply have a modern clone of it, like a TTSH, or even break it down into equivalent modules in a Eurorack system and it’ll not only do the same job but be more reliable and flexible. However, it wouldn’t be Roger Glover’s old knackered Arp 2600. I have little to some personal emotional attachment to it but it’s at the low end of the scale. I like the idea of an Arp 2600 as a concept, but it’s completely substitutable in so many other ways.
In the meantime, the Mono/Poly is attracting bids: eBay 291808860230
hush hush, don't say that now
you are lowering the price