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I'm about to lose my mind! Any ideas?

I recently decided to pull out my old 12 string and try to make it playable (belly bulge). This was a Xmas present to me in 1975 or 76. It was purchased from Montgomery Wards and has no labels, serial numbers or markings anywhere inside or out. I've been trying to figure out who made it and where it was made. I can't find this guitar or anything close to it on the webs and it's driving me crazy! Airline, teisco, Kay, Harmony, kent, yet nothing comes up. It was a $110 brand new so I know it's not worth anything, just nostalgic as it was my first. Any ideas where else I can look into it would be great. I'll post some pics. It's actually a really beautiful dove copy, sort of.






Comments

  • I know both Gibson and Epiphone have used doves on their guitars that look very similar to that one, maybe that helps narrow it down?

  • Alvarez and Suzuki also did them, but I can’t find a match for the fir trees on the pickguatds. Those seem to be quite unique...

  • My doves are reversed. I had no idea till I saw this. Yeah I keep coming up with this and the takamine law suit guitars.

    @Tarekith said:
    I know both Gibson and Epiphone have used doves on their guitars that look very similar to that one, maybe that helps narrow it down?

    Yes I've tried several ways of this in my search. My doves are reversed and have a mountain and spruce tree back ground which I have not seen yet in any of my searches. I've even looked up old wards catalogs looking for it. I'm pretty sure I spent many hours dreaming of it in those catalogs. But I also remember going there and playing it.

  • @TheOriginalPaulB said:

    Alvarez and Suzuki also did them, but I can’t find a match for the fir trees on the pickguatds. Those seem to be quite unique...

    the Suzuki is very close, when you look at the inlays, the zero fret, headstock shape and the neck to headstock connection they match up as close as I've seen. Very cool.

  • That iPad looks pretty grungy, like the cat’s been walking on it. Welcome to the do not clean your plate club.

  • @LinearLineman said:
    That iPad looks pretty grungy, like the cat’s been walking on it. Welcome to the do not clean your plate club.

    Haha! Yeah 2 cats and my dirty fingers.

  • Cool old guitar. If the bridge won’t come down far enough, maybe convert it to an Indian-style slide guitar with lots of drone strings.

  • My first guitar was a '77 or '78 Hohner. There are three things that match really well on your guitar. The truss rod cover is identical. The headstock shape is the same minus the 12-string part. The bridge is the same. The bridge and truss rod cover make me think they may have been made by the same company.

  • edited February 2021

    Silvertone? Sears and Montgomery Ward used the Silvetone name. Probably made in Korea.

    These links to Montgomery Ward Christmas catalogs from 75 and 76 might help.. But I'm not finding any 12 strings.

    https://christmas.musetechnical.com/ShowCatalog/1975-Montgomery-Ward-Christmas-Book

    https://christmas.musetechnical.com/ShowCatalog/1976-Montgomery-Ward-Christmas-Book

  • @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:
    Cool old guitar. If the bridge won’t come down far enough, maybe convert it to an Indian-style slide guitar with lots of drone strings.

    Good idea. I ordered a bridge doctor system. It seems they work pretty well. It's amazing to me this thing has been under tension for 45 years and the bridge hasn't pulled off. I remember it bowing back in the 70s and worrying about it but had no idea what to do about it.

  • Play guitar, or Make music, or hand write it all down, or type it all out, or exercise or dance or deep breathing, at least these are the things that often help me...

  • @NeonSilicon said:
    My first guitar was a '77 or '78 Hohner. There are three things that match really well on your guitar. The truss rod cover is identical. The headstock shape is the same minus the 12-string part. The bridge is the same. The bridge and truss rod cover make me think they may have been made by the same company.

    Could be , I'm still thinking the Suzuki seems to be the closest. But these companies in the 70s were merging and being bought and some were making 3 or 4 brands plus the unbranded or wards and Sears brands.

  • @Lady_App_titude said:
    Silvertone? Sears and Montgomery Ward used the Silvetone name. Probably made in Korea.

    These links to Montgomery Ward Christmas catalogs from 75 and 76 might help.. But I'm not finding any 12 strings.

    https://christmas.musetechnical.com/ShowCatalog/1975-Montgomery-Ward-Christmas-Book

    https://christmas.musetechnical.com/ShowCatalog/1976-Montgomery-Ward-Christmas-Book

    Talk about a trip down memory lane. Thanks for that. We would get so excited when the christmas catalogs would come out.

  • Looks like Eco but they did brand their guitars.

  • @Bootsy said:

    @NeonSilicon said:
    My first guitar was a '77 or '78 Hohner. There are three things that match really well on your guitar. The truss rod cover is identical. The headstock shape is the same minus the 12-string part. The bridge is the same. The bridge and truss rod cover make me think they may have been made by the same company.

    Could be , I'm still thinking the Suzuki seems to be the closest. But these companies in the 70s were merging and being bought and some were making 3 or 4 brands plus the unbranded or wards and Sears brands.

    Yeah, lots of mergers and manufacturers going out of business. It's also the point where the Japanese manufacturers and guitar companies started having their guitars made in Korea. It could be hard to figure out who the manufacturer was without finding someone who specializes in the history of 70's guitar builders.

    The other guitar I saw that had really similar models or common features was Aria.

    So, the did the guitar come with a John Denver songbook? The six string in the catalog lists one. And, if it did, did you learn any of the songs?

  • @NeonSilicon said:

    @Bootsy said:

    @NeonSilicon said:
    My first guitar was a '77 or '78 Hohner. There are three things that match really well on your guitar. The truss rod cover is identical. The headstock shape is the same minus the 12-string part. The bridge is the same. The bridge and truss rod cover make me think they may have been made by the same company.

    Could be , I'm still thinking the Suzuki seems to be the closest. But these companies in the 70s were merging and being bought and some were making 3 or 4 brands plus the unbranded or wards and Sears brands.

    Yeah, lots of mergers and manufacturers going out of business. It's also the point where the Japanese manufacturers and guitar companies started having their guitars made in Korea. It could be hard to figure out who the manufacturer was without finding someone who specializes in the history of 70's guitar builders.

    The other guitar I saw that had really similar models or common features was Aria.

    So, the did the guitar come with a John Denver songbook? The six string in the catalog lists one. And, if it did, did you learn any of the songs?

    Funny it didn't come with one but I had it! I think it was a bday present. Sunshine on my shoulders and leaving on a jet plane, 2 of my favs at the time.

  • @Bootsy said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    @Bootsy said:

    @NeonSilicon said:
    My first guitar was a '77 or '78 Hohner. There are three things that match really well on your guitar. The truss rod cover is identical. The headstock shape is the same minus the 12-string part. The bridge is the same. The bridge and truss rod cover make me think they may have been made by the same company.

    Could be , I'm still thinking the Suzuki seems to be the closest. But these companies in the 70s were merging and being bought and some were making 3 or 4 brands plus the unbranded or wards and Sears brands.

    Yeah, lots of mergers and manufacturers going out of business. It's also the point where the Japanese manufacturers and guitar companies started having their guitars made in Korea. It could be hard to figure out who the manufacturer was without finding someone who specializes in the history of 70's guitar builders.

    The other guitar I saw that had really similar models or common features was Aria.

    So, the did the guitar come with a John Denver songbook? The six string in the catalog lists one. And, if it did, did you learn any of the songs?

    Funny it didn't come with one but I had it! I think it was a bday present. Sunshine on my shoulders and leaving on a jet plane, 2 of my favs at the time.

    Awesome! I learned several of his songs to accompany my high school choir. Since we were in Colorado, he was kinda popular.

  • @NeonSilicon said:

    @Bootsy said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    @Bootsy said:

    @NeonSilicon said:
    My first guitar was a '77 or '78 Hohner. There are three things that match really well on your guitar. The truss rod cover is identical. The headstock shape is the same minus the 12-string part. The bridge is the same. The bridge and truss rod cover make me think they may have been made by the same company.

    Could be , I'm still thinking the Suzuki seems to be the closest. But these companies in the 70s were merging and being bought and some were making 3 or 4 brands plus the unbranded or wards and Sears brands.

    Yeah, lots of mergers and manufacturers going out of business. It's also the point where the Japanese manufacturers and guitar companies started having their guitars made in Korea. It could be hard to figure out who the manufacturer was without finding someone who specializes in the history of 70's guitar builders.

    The other guitar I saw that had really similar models or common features was Aria.

    So, the did the guitar come with a John Denver songbook? The six string in the catalog lists one. And, if it did, did you learn any of the songs?

    Funny it didn't come with one but I had it! I think it was a bday present. Sunshine on my shoulders and leaving on a jet plane, 2 of my favs at the time.

    Awesome! I learned several of his songs to accompany my high school choir. Since we were in Colorado, he was kinda popular.

    Cool! I moved to Denver in 81, been here ever since.

  • @Bootsy said:
    I recently decided to pull out my old 12 string and try to make it playable (belly bulge). This was a Xmas present to me in 1975 or 76. It was purchased from Montgomery Wards and has no labels, serial numbers or markings anywhere inside or out. I've been trying to figure out who made it and where it was made. I can't find this guitar or anything close to it on the webs and it's driving me crazy! Airline, teisco, Kay, Harmony, kent, yet nothing comes up. It was a $110 brand new so I know it's not worth anything, just nostalgic as it was my first. Any ideas where else I can look into it would be great. I'll post some pics. It's actually a really beautiful dove copy, sort of.

    Can you fit your phone in the sound hole. Record a video with your phone light. You may see some clues of the manufacturer.

  • @ecou said:

    @Bootsy said:
    I recently decided to pull out my old 12 string and try to make it playable (belly bulge). This was a Xmas present to me in 1975 or 76. It was purchased from Montgomery Wards and has no labels, serial numbers or markings anywhere inside or out. I've been trying to figure out who made it and where it was made. I can't find this guitar or anything close to it on the webs and it's driving me crazy! Airline, teisco, Kay, Harmony, kent, yet nothing comes up. It was a $110 brand new so I know it's not worth anything, just nostalgic as it was my first. Any ideas where else I can look into it would be great. I'll post some pics. It's actually a really beautiful dove copy, sort of.

    Can you fit your phone in the sound hole. Record a video with your phone light. You may see some clues of the manufacturer.

    i did stick in there and took some pics but still no markings.. but i will give the video a try.. thanks

  • Looks like there is some writing on the truss rod cover?

  • @jblock said:
    Looks like there is some writing on the truss rod cover?

    reinforced neck. literally the only writing on the guitar..

  • @Bootsy said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    @Bootsy said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    @Bootsy said:

    @NeonSilicon said:
    My first guitar was a '77 or '78 Hohner. There are three things that match really well on your guitar. The truss rod cover is identical. The headstock shape is the same minus the 12-string part. The bridge is the same. The bridge and truss rod cover make me think they may have been made by the same company.

    Could be , I'm still thinking the Suzuki seems to be the closest. But these companies in the 70s were merging and being bought and some were making 3 or 4 brands plus the unbranded or wards and Sears brands.

    Yeah, lots of mergers and manufacturers going out of business. It's also the point where the Japanese manufacturers and guitar companies started having their guitars made in Korea. It could be hard to figure out who the manufacturer was without finding someone who specializes in the history of 70's guitar builders.

    The other guitar I saw that had really similar models or common features was Aria.

    So, the did the guitar come with a John Denver songbook? The six string in the catalog lists one. And, if it did, did you learn any of the songs?

    Funny it didn't come with one but I had it! I think it was a bday present. Sunshine on my shoulders and leaving on a jet plane, 2 of my favs at the time.

    Awesome! I learned several of his songs to accompany my high school choir. Since we were in Colorado, he was kinda popular.

    Cool! I moved to Denver in 81, been here ever since.

    I was born in Pueblo -- been in and out of Colorado many times since. I've only lived in Denver once for a short time in around '82.

    Kinda hard to find good repair shops around Co if you do need to get work done on your 12-string.

  • Cool! I moved to Denver in 81, been here ever since.

    I was born in Pueblo -- been in and out of Colorado many times since. I've only lived in Denver once for a short time in around '82.

    Kinda hard to find good repair shops around Co if you do need to get work done on your 12-string.

    It's changed a whole lot since 81. We think about selling and getting outta here quite often but the weather is pretty much the best all around. Hoping the bridge doctor will at least get me to playable other wise probably back in the case and into the closet for another 30 yrs.

  • @Lady_App_titude said:
    Eureka! 1975 Montgomery Ward Fall Winter Catalog, Page 1013:

    https://christmas.musetechnical.com/ShowCatalog/1975-Montgomery-Ward-Fall-Winter-Catalog

    Sooo close but no cigar. That looks like a proper dove clone. Mine has single block inlays, a straight bridge, straight headstock, no open book. And my doves are reversed. It's the craziest thing.

  • @Bootsy said:

    Sooo close but no cigar. That looks like a proper dove clone. Mine has single block inlays, a straight bridge, straight headstock, no open book. And my doves are reversed. It's the craziest thing.

    I would try the all the catalogs from 74-ish-78-ish, except the Xmas. The Fall-Winter etc. have many more items/pages.

    Here is the homepage link for all the catalogs:

    https://christmas.musetechnical.com/

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