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IPad Pro sample switching sample rate

Hello guys, don’t kill me as I know that it was discussed before.

I have an IPad Pro with locked sample rates at 48000Hz. I always used this with Apple usb c adapter and in AUM I was always able to switch from 48000 hz to 44100 hz in order to use some apps that are crackling at 48000hz (cs grain and spectral for example).

I generally use a sennheiser headphone (momentum) with mic and I can always switch sample rates in aum, but now I’ve bought Audio Technica ATH-M50X which has no mic and I can not chance Sample rate anymore using Apple dongle.

Is because of the mic absence? Are there some workarounds? @Samu i know you are an expert about this.

I have also an external audio interface zoom u 22 and I can change sample rates with it, but with the new headphone i hear a lot of static sound in the background when not playing, is this normal? Would you like to suggest me another compact usb external audio card to avoid this hiss sounds?

Thanks guys🔥

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Comments

  • The static sounds like sounding issue of some kind...
    Do you hear the static with all your headphones?
    (What is the u22's headphone jack rated if it's too high impedance you can get weird issues especially when connecting low ohm headphones). Try a different pair and see if it's the same?

    As for sample-rate, external audio-interface is the solution here. Apple 'f'ked up' with the sample-rate on the newer iPads...
    (I mean when you record video on a '48K Only' device the audio is downsampled to 44.1K even though 48K is 'standard' for video etc. etc.).

    My ATH-M50x's 'gave up' so I got myself a pair of MDR-7506's to replace them and I do not regret that decision :)

    Cheers!

  • @Samu said:
    The static sounds like sounding issue of some kind...
    Do you hear the static with all your headphones?
    (What is the u22's headphone jack rated if it's too high impedance you can get weird issues especially when connecting low ohm headphones). Try a different pair and see if it's the same?

    As for sample-rate, external audio-interface is the solution here. Apple 'f'ked up' with the sample-rate on the newer iPads...
    (I mean when you record video on a '48K Only' device the audio is downsampled to 44.1K even though 48K is 'standard' for video etc. etc.).

    My ATH-M50x's 'gave up' so I got myself a pair of MDR-7506's to replace them and I do not regret that decision :)

    Cheers!

    Static sound only with ATH-M50x. More then static is like a continuous background noise (white noise).

    Do you have a compact audio interface that is better then the one I have to suggest?

    Is really strange that with headphone with mic you can change sample rate and without mic you can not.

    What a pain.

  • @Charlesalbert said:

    Static sound only with ATH-M50x. More then static is like a continuous background noise (white noise).

    Just checked the specs on the Zoom U22.
    Standard stereo phone jack
10 mW x 2 (into 32 Ω load).
    he output impedance of the U22 is 10 Ω.

    So ideally you'd have to use headphones with higher impedance to avoid the 'white noise'.

    Do you have a compact audio interface that is better then the one I have to suggest?

    Depends on the input/output needs. I'm using a Steinberg UR-242.
    Truly mobile audio-interfaces are quite tricky...

    So if the Zoom U22 fits the bill maybe another set of headphones will make this easier.

    Is really strange that with headphone with mic you can change sample rate and without mic you can not.

    That's Apple for ya, maybe the AD on the connector on the headset is capable of 44.1K/48K while the DA is only 48K.
    (And in those cases iOS will just up-sample to 48K during playback even though 44.1K is selected).

    What a pain.

    Yepp, one of the reasons I',m still stuck with my trusty iPad Air 2 ;)

    Cheers!

  • edited October 2020

    @Charlesalbert have you tried to change the cable on the m50x, iknow this sounds dumb, but u never know

    @Samu you like the Sony? i have the m50x, love em but hearing so much love for the 7560 around here,
    edit, thers a long thread about it im heading over heh

  • @noob said:

    >

    @Samu you like the Sony? i have the m50x, love em but hearing so much love for the 7560 around here,
    edit, thers a long thread about it im heading over heh

    Yeah, I like them!

    My ATH-M50X's broke down and I had to get a replacements and decided to give the MDR-7506's a spin and I do not regret it.
    Just wondering what took me so long?!

    They are very easy to drive with just about anything, the Lightning->3.5mm hack has enough juice to blow my ears off :D
    Also my ears don't get as hot with the 7506's as they did with the m50x's and the bass feels more 'solid/tight' on them as well.

    If you can, give them a listen...
    (Some like them, some don't it's a matter of personal preference as always with headphones).

    Cheers!

  • I will return my headset and get the Sony.

    Thanks for the info guys.

  • @Charlesalbert said:
    I will return my headset and get the Sony.

    Thanks for the info guys.

    Try first if you can...
    I tried the MDR-7506's as well as DT-770's (80ohms) and preferred the sound of the Sony's...
    (I'm 48 so my ears are not what they used to be, but I can still hear clearly upto the ~14.5Khz range).

  • @noob said:
    @Charlesalbert have you tried to change the cable on the m50x, iknow this sounds dumb, but u never know

    @Samu you like the Sony? i have the m50x, love em but hearing so much love for the 7560 around here,
    edit, thers a long thread about it im heading over heh

    You might want to check Sonarworks review of the Sony, because they are far from perfect. I personally find their popularity rather baffling, they are way too bright to mix with IMO:

    https://www.sonarworks.com/blog/gear-reviews/studio-headphone-review-sony-mdr-7506/

  • That site and the video is more or less 'advertisement' for their headphone correction software :)
    (On iOS we have the Morphit from Toneboosters).

    I don't find the 7506's to be 'too bright' but then again I don't listen at super loud levels.
    (And yes, I'm getting old and with age comes ear degradation just like vision gets worse over time).

    In comparison I'd say that the ATH-M50X sound 'blurry/muddy' compared to MDR-7506's...
    ...again personal preference. I didn't like the sound of the DT770's which a lot of people praise.

    Another factor that affects the sound of the headphones is the device that is used to drive them.

    Thankfully we have a lot of headphones to choose from and the most important part is that everyone finds a pair that fits them and the way they use them.

    I've so far had far less 'surprises' when using the MDR-7506's compared to ATH-M50X's when listening on a pair of speakers...
    (Ie. if it sounds OK on the MDR-7506's it will likely sound pretty ok on a pair of speakers as well. I use the iLoud Micro Monitors).

    Cheers!

  • @Samu said:

    That site and the video is more or less 'advertisement' for their headphone correction software :)
    (On iOS we have the Morphit from Toneboosters).

    I don't find the 7506's to be 'too bright' but then again I don't listen at super loud levels.
    (And yes, I'm getting old and with age comes ear degradation just like vision gets worse over time).

    In comparison I'd say that the ATH-M50X sound 'blurry/muddy' compared to MDR-7506's...
    ...again personal preference. I didn't like the sound of the DT770's which a lot of people praise.

    Another factor that affects the sound of the headphones is the device that is used to drive them.

    Thankfully we have a lot of headphones to choose from and the most important part is that everyone finds a pair that fits them and the way they use them.

    I've so far had far less 'surprises' when using the MDR-7506's compared to ATH-M50X's when listening on a pair of speakers...
    (Ie. if it sounds OK on the MDR-7506's it will likely sound pretty ok on a pair of speakers as well. I use the iLoud Micro Monitors).

    Cheers!

    The Sonwarks reviews are based on measurements so they're more reliable than subjective reviews from people just giving their impressions.

    It's been a long slow journey but we are finally entering into an era of standardisation when it comes to assessing the sound quality of speakers and headphones. The research done at the Harman labs and the far wider adoption of measurements means that we have a much clearer idea of what "neutral" should sound like, and which headphones and speakers approach that benchmark.

    Almost all headphones are a compromise, and that of course includes not only the MDR7506, but also the M50X (too much bass), and the DT770s (smile curve, recessed mids).

    But the MDR7506 is objectively too bright, all the measurements confirm that. It doesn't mean people shouldn't use them, but they should at least be aware of the issue.

    It's also worth knowing that according to the research done at the Harman labs there is a significant minority of people who strongly prefer a brighter sound, and for these people a brighter headphone or speaker makes sense. I think the breakdown was something along the lines of 70% of listeners prefer a neutral sound (which is a headphone that matches the sound of a speaker measured as flat in an anechoic chamber), 20% prefer a bright sound, and 10% prefer a bass boost.

  • @richardyot and @Samu i placed my order for the Sony headphone in replacement of the ATH.

    Please tell me if I did a mistake😂😂 I don’t want to enter the roulette of Amazon reimbursement😂😂😂

  • @richardyot said:

    But the MDR7506 is objectively too bright, all the measurements confirm that. It doesn't mean people shouldn't use them, but they should at least be aware of the issue.

    It's also worth knowing that according to the research done at the Harman labs there is a significant minority of people who strongly prefer a brighter sound, and for these people a brighter headphone or speaker makes sense. I think the breakdown was something along the lines of 70% of listeners prefer a neutral sound (which is a headphone that matches the sound of a speaker measured as flat in an anechoic chamber), 20% prefer a bright sound, and 10% prefer a bass boost.

    Yepp!

    And there are other factors that just plain flat frequency response that is at play here, transient response is equally important
    We may get a set of cans with 100% flat frequency response but transient response would suffer to avoid frequency bleeding, booming etc.

    To get 100% flat & accurate from the headphones headphones we would have to individually measure the hearing capacity of the listener and compensate for that as well.

    I did look at the measurements of the MDR-7506's before I got them knowing they could potentially be a bit 'bright' but considering my ears have lost some of their capacity the hi-end is not at all overwhelming.

    My very subjective observation of the 7506's is that they are pretty 'snappy' and not 'laid back' when it comes to transient response which is something that suits me and they are super easy to drive with just about anything :)

    Cheers!

  • @Samu said:

    @richardyot said:

    But the MDR7506 is objectively too bright, all the measurements confirm that. It doesn't mean people shouldn't use them, but they should at least be aware of the issue.

    It's also worth knowing that according to the research done at the Harman labs there is a significant minority of people who strongly prefer a brighter sound, and for these people a brighter headphone or speaker makes sense. I think the breakdown was something along the lines of 70% of listeners prefer a neutral sound (which is a headphone that matches the sound of a speaker measured as flat in an anechoic chamber), 20% prefer a bright sound, and 10% prefer a bass boost.

    Yepp!

    And there are other factors that just plain flat frequency response that is at play here, transient response is equally important
    We may get a set of cans with 100% flat frequency response but transient response would suffer to avoid frequency bleeding, booming etc.

    To get 100% flat & accurate from the headphones headphones we would have to individually measure the hearing capacity of the listener and compensate for that as well.

    I did look at the measurements of the MDR-7506's before I got them knowing they could potentially be a bit 'bright' but considering my ears have lost some of their capacity the hi-end is not at all overwhelming.

    My very subjective observation of the 7506's is that they are pretty 'snappy' and not 'laid back' when it comes to transient response which is something that suits me and they are super easy to drive with just about anything :)

    Cheers!

    I’m an old fart, made deaf by twins screaming through the house so I confirm my choice of switching the ATH for the Sony.

    Thanks so much @Samu for your kind help❤️

  • @Charlesalbert said:
    @richardyot and @Samu i placed my order for the Sony headphone in replacement of the ATH.

    Please tell me if I did a mistake😂😂 I don’t want to enter the roulette of Amazon reimbursement😂😂😂

    You can always get Toneboosters Motphit ;)

  • @Charlesalbert said:

    I’m an old fart, made deaf by twins screaming through the house so I confirm my choice of switching the ATH for the Sony.

    Thanks so much @Samu for your kind help❤️

    Feel free to share your impressions when you get them :)

    My first encounter with the MDR-7506's was back in the mid 90s but I never got a pair as I was a bigger fan of the AKG240's back then. I still have plenty of other headphones AKG K701 & Sennheiser HD598's to name a few. I would have saved a lot of 'headphone cash' knowing what I know today...

  • @Samu said:
    To get 100% flat & accurate from the headphones headphones we would have to individually measure the hearing capacity of the listener and compensate for that as well.

    Yes of course, it's a hugely complex subject. There is variance between individuals (which might explain why a minority of listeners prefer a brighter sound) so not everyone will hear headphones in exactly the same way. Your head shape and ear shape will have a profound influence on the way that sound reaches your ears, and there is enormous variance in the ear resonances between individuals.

    But think of it this way: the same arguments could be made about eyesight: there is a wide variance in colour perception between individuals with healthy eyesight (some people can perceiver a much wider range of colours, or differentiate with much greater granularity). Does that mean that photographers should not bother working on calibrated screens? Even when there are differences in perception due to anatomy it still makes sense to work to some kind of standard, otherwise it's all just guesswork.

    So I would say it makes sense to aim for a flat response in speakers and headphones, for the same reason that photographers work on calibrated displays. Especially if you're mixing, you need to have a realistic frame of reference.

  • @richardyot said:

    But think of it this way: the same arguments could be made about eyesight: there is a wide variance in colour perception between individuals with healthy eyesight (some people can perceiver a much wider range of colours, or differentiate with much greater granularity). Does that mean that photographers should not bother working on calibrated screens? Even when there are differences in perception due to anatomy it still makes sense to work to some kind of standard, otherwise it's all just guesswork.

    Fully aware of that :)

    Color calibration is important but even then different monitor brands show the colors differently even after doing proper calibration on them. (This could be compared to EQ'ing the studio monitors to a reference, level matching is easy, frequency matching is more challenging) not to mention adapting colors to ambient lightning etc.


    (Magenta does not exist, this is very similar to psycho acoustics, or more expensive wine tasting better when it's the price that is most likely affecting the judgment etc.).

    So I would say it makes sense to aim for a flat response in speakers and headphones, for the same reason that photographers work on calibrated displays. Especially if you're mixing, you need to have a realistic frame of reference.

    Still most of todays music gets consumed on crappy listening devices and for pictures it's sub-par monitors that barely cover the sRGB color gamut or have some insane 'auto maximizer, contrast enhancers or other things going on).

    It's very seldom that the end-users sees or hears a TV broadcast as it was intended to be seen and heard.

    So regardless of how good monitors, speakers cans we have it doesn't hurt to check it with something the average end user has.

    Don't remember who it was who said that. "If you can make a mix sound good on a pair of NS10s' it will likely sound good on almost anything". And the NS10's are honestly not particularly good speakers...
    (Same goes for AirPods, if you can make it sound good on a pair of AirPods it'll likely be pretty ok in the end).

    This is an interesting topic, and It'll be fun to hear the reaction from @Charlesalbert when he gets is pair :)

    Cheers!

  • @Samu said:

    @richardyot said:

    But think of it this way: the same arguments could be made about eyesight: there is a wide variance in colour perception between individuals with healthy eyesight (some people can perceiver a much wider range of colours, or differentiate with much greater granularity). Does that mean that photographers should not bother working on calibrated screens? Even when there are differences in perception due to anatomy it still makes sense to work to some kind of standard, otherwise it's all just guesswork.

    Fully aware of that :)

    Color calibration is important but even then different monitor brands show the colors differently even after doing proper calibration on them. (This could be compared to EQ'ing the studio monitors to a reference, level matching is easy, frequency matching is more challenging) not to mention adapting colors to ambient lightning etc.


    (Magenta does not exist, this is very similar to psycho acoustics, or more expensive wine tasting better when it's the price that is most likely affecting the judgment etc.).

    So I would say it makes sense to aim for a flat response in speakers and headphones, for the same reason that photographers work on calibrated displays. Especially if you're mixing, you need to have a realistic frame of reference.

    Still most of todays music gets consumed on crappy listening devices and for pictures it's sub-par monitors that barely cover the sRGB color gamut or have some insane 'auto maximizer, contrast enhancers or other things going on).

    It's very seldom that the end-users sees or hears a TV broadcast as it was intended to be seen and heard.

    So regardless of how good monitors, speakers cans we have it doesn't hurt to check it with something the average end user has.

    Don't remember who it was who said that. "If you can make a mix sound good on a pair of NS10s' it will likely sound good on almost anything". And the NS10's are honestly not particularly good speakers...
    (Same goes for AirPods, if you can make it sound good on a pair of AirPods it'll likely be pretty ok in the end).

    This is an interesting topic, and It'll be fun to hear the reaction from @Charlesalbert when he gets is pair :)

    Cheers!

    Tomorrow I will share my noob impressions.

  • @richardyot gaaaah so what cans do you recommend for say umm.... sub 300$, right now im using m50x, but I dont really trust them, even with Morphit

  • @noob said:
    @richardyot gaaaah so what cans do you recommend for say umm.... sub 300$, right now im using m50x, but I dont really trust them, even with Morphit

    Sadly there are no perfect cans...

    The HD650s are considered to be amongst the most neutral cans available:

    https://www.sonarworks.com/blog/reviews/sennheiser-hd650-review/

    The older HD580s and HD600s will also be in that same ballpark. However all of these Sennheiser models have significant rolloff below 100hz so even though they are very good they are not perfect and there are other better headphones for monitoring deep (sub 100hz) bass.

    Personally I use a mixture of the HD650, DT770 (80 Ohm) and Focal Spirit Pros. It's worth noting that with Morphit all 3 models actually sound very similar to each other once corrected.

    I would say that if used in conjunction with Morphit the DT770 is a pretty decent option, because it has great bass extension and can be made to sound more neutral with corrective EQ from Morphit.

    Also in the other thread @Sequencer1 mentioned the AKG K361 and K371 which are apparently tuned to the Harman curve (which is what most people consider neutral, because it sounds close to a pair of well-balanced speakers in an average room). I haven't heard them myself but they sound like a very solid option and aren't too expensive. If I was in the market for a new pair of headphones to mix on these would be the first ones I would look into.

  • Regarding the 'Harman Curve'

    https://jazztimes.com/reviews/products-and-gear/audio-files-the-harman-curve/

    Harman has published its research, so other manufacturers are free to use the Harman curve. As it happens, the Sony MDR-7506, probably the world’s most popular professional headphone, comes close to that curve.

  • @Samu said:
    Regarding the 'Harman Curve'

    https://jazztimes.com/reviews/products-and-gear/audio-files-the-harman-curve/

    Harman has published its research, so other manufacturers are free to use the Harman curve. As it happens, the Sony MDR-7506, probably the world’s most popular professional headphone, comes close to that curve.

    Sorry that article has it wrong, there is a 10db peak between 3khz and 10khz on the Sonys which most definitely does not "come close" to the Harman curve.

  • @richardyot said:

    Sorry that article has it wrong, there is a 10db peak between 3khz and 10khz on the Sonys which most definitely does not "come close" to the Harman curve.

    I know, there are some peaks in the response :)

    This is the 'nerdiest' measurement I've found of the 7506's at different loads etc.
    https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/sony-mdr-7506.php#gsc.tab=0
    (They have in-depth measurements for a shedload of other cans).

    Headphones & Monitoring systems are and always will be a full compromises...
    ...and thankfully we're free to choose :)

    (I mean my iPhone could barely drive a pair of HD650's at reasonable levels when I'm outdoors the open back nature of them would make them practically unusable for field recording, and the DT770's would cook my brain after a few hours of use).

    Oh well, I'm looking forward to OP's response when he gets them.
    I'm happy with mine... :)

    Cheers!

  • edited October 2020

    ty for the links gonna read up. DT 250/150 still smth to go for? , or do they just look good/got history..hmm
    anyway , in this this place, seems people's choice(s) are DT770/880 , MDR-7560, Airpods pro 1&2, m50x.

  • edited October 2020

    @noob said:
    ty for the links gonna read up. DT 250/150 still smth to go for? , or do they just look good/got history..hmm
    anyway , in this this place, seems people's choice(s) are DT770/880 , MDR-7560, Airpods pro 1&2, m50x.

    I think you should look at the AKG371, they seem to be very promising:

    https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/12/akg-k371-review/

    https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/akg/k371

  • Let me know if anything below is incorrect!

    iPad Models-Default Sample Rate for Audio Jack Out [When using Headphones (w/ 3-pole plug), not Headsets (w/ 4-pole plug)]:

    Y=iPad has headphone jack; N=iPad doesn't have HP jack-requires dongle.

    • N 2020 iPad Air 4: ?
    • Y 2020 iPad 8: ?
    • N 2020 iPad Pro 12.9 & 11: ?
    • Y 2019 iPad 7: ?
    • Y 2019 iPad Mini 5 & Air 3: 48kHz. Can't be changed in most apps.
    • N 2018 iPad Pro 12.9 & 11: 48kHz. Can't be changed in most apps.
    • Y 2018 iPad 6: 44.1kHz. Can be changed to 48Hz in most apps.
    • Y 2017 iPad Pro 12.9 & 10.5: 44.1kHz. Can be changed to 48kHz in most apps.
    • Y 2017 iPad 5: 44.1kHz. Can be changed to 48kHz in most apps.
    • Y 2016 iPad Pro 9.7: 44.1kHz. Can be changed to 48kHz in most apps.
    • Y 2015 iPad Pro 12.9: 44.1kHz. Can be changed to 48kHz in most apps.
    • Y 2015 iPad Mini 4: 44.1kHz. Can be changed to 48kHz in most apps.
    • Y 2014 iPad Air 2: 44.1kHz. Can be changed to 48kHz in most apps.
    • Y 2014 iPad Mini 3: 44.1kHz. Can be changed to 48kHz in most apps.
    • Y 2013 iPad Mini 2: 44.1kHz. Can be changed to 48kHz in most apps.
    • Y 2013 iPad Air: 44.1kHz. Can be changed to 48kHz in most apps.

    Notes:

    1. MIDI & MIDI Clock Sync is affected by sample rate, just like audio. All apps need to be using the same sample rate.
    2. 2018 iPad Pros & the 2019 Air 3 & Mini 5 all have a sample rate that's locked at 48kHz for headphones (w/ 3-pole plug) & internal speakers. If you use a headset (w/ 4-pole plug), then the output changes to 44.1kHz. But as soon as you unplug it, it immediately changes to 48kHz, which is a serious problem if you were editing samples.
    3. There are several apps that still have problems with sample rate, i.e. - some are locked at 44.1kHz & don't change if the host/DAW is at 48kHz. Or they follow the iPad's system sample rate instead of the host/DAW. This results in them being out of tune or having audio-export problems.
    4. None of this applies when using an external audio interface.
  • edited October 2020

    @Sequencer1 yeh 2020pro here, SR locked 48kHz. This is true for all iDevices without 3.5mm jack after 2018 ithink

  • edited October 2020

    @noob said:
    @Sequencer1 yeh 2020pro here, SR locked 48kHz. This is true for all iDevices without 3.5mm jack so no meed for that chart heh

    @noob Funny thing is, if you had paid more attention, you'd see that the chart isn't just for the iDevices without 3.5mm jacks.

    But once again - I do appreciate your patronage. And get off my ass.

  • I'm particularly interested in how the regular 8th Gen iPad behaves regarding sample-rate...

  • I use a Dragonfly Black or Red to control the sample rate on my iPhone XR. Fixes the issue painlessly.

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