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Aum: how to avoid mic input defaults when external instruments disconnected?

I have an Aum project with several channels corresponding to my USB interface’s external instruments. When I unplug the interface or open the project without it plugged in, these switch to microphone inputs automatically and can be dangerous to my hearing with the result of that.

Any workarounds or tricks to avoid this? I never want a microphone source in this project or these channels.

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Comments

  • I did this a few times and learnt to make doubly sure where things are at when it comes to switching stuff on and off. That's all you can do, make a safe routine and eventually you don't screw up (hopefully). It would be great if AUM could recognise this situation and automatically mute the outputs.

  • Yup, what he said^^^

    Just make sure to disengage the inputs before disconnecting things.

  • For some devices I'd expect having something pulled into the headphone jack would that doesn't not
    act as a mic or an antenna to generate a signal would work. For newer devices without a headphone jack I expect that it's trickier. Is there a global setting for the mic? This could be serious if AUM is used as a mixer for a Public Address (PA) system which is where things are headed. Any AUM tricks to change limiter settings?

    I'm sure @j_liljedahl can find a solution and implement something in a future update for the issue to encourage more use of AUM to replace the small club mixers for bands and venues.

  • I’ve inserted an instance of Enso with the input monitor set at never.

  • @Intrepolicious said:
    Yup, what he said^^^

    Just make sure to disengage the inputs before disconnecting things.

    Like so.

  • Another way would be to send every channel to a bus rather than to the interface output, set the output on the bus channel only, then simply mute the bus channel before saving and closing the session.

  • @wim said:
    Another way would be to send every channel to a bus rather than to the interface output, set the output on the bus channel only, then simply mute the bus channel before saving and closing the session.

    This is part of AUMs flexibility, not running everything through a master bus. I can't see why it would ever be a good idea. The only exception being having extra hardware output channels that you control with a physical mixer. I always put a peak limiter on the final buss(es), why would that ever not be a good idea, accidents happen.

  • wimwim
    edited October 2020

    @SpartanClownTide said:

    @wim said:
    Another way would be to send every channel to a bus rather than to the interface output, set the output on the bus channel only, then simply mute the bus channel before saving and closing the session.

    This is part of AUMs flexibility, not running everything through a master bus. I can't see why it would ever be a good idea. The only exception being having extra hardware output channels that you control with a physical mixer. I always put a peak limiter on the final buss(es), why would that ever not be a good idea, accidents happen.

    I think people often don't do it because it's extra setup. It is easier just to take the default for every channel. But in a case like this it seems the most direct answer to the problem.

  • I think folks are missing the point.

    If you connected a hardware interface to an IOS device and make an AUM rig assigning the inputs
    AUM should maintain the assignment even if the hardware is disconnected. That would produce
    "silence" without a physical device serving the USB connection.

    But was happens is AUM re-assigns the inputs to the "live mic". Live mic's just going live will make AUM
    a liability for "live" uses. The engineer using it will know this and do the right thing. Use another more expensive tool to insure he doesn't throw a massive feedback wave at the audience.

    @j_liljedahl could change this behavior in an update if we support the OP's request for a useful workaround. I think it's clear there isn't a valid workaround. Just best practices to mitigate those live mics using limiters. I'm hoping the default get changed and AUM just informs me my hardware is down and waits for me to configure a change of fix the hardware.

    I use a Guitar interface and after playing I'll remove the hardware and every time AUM starts a high pitched whine. With the limiter I might not notice and it will persist. Sometimes for hours. I'd prefer
    AUM just idle silently in the back ground untilI open it and change the preset or the current assignments.

    But the enhancement request will not carry any weight if the general message to the OP is "You doing it wrong." He's not. It's just a "feature" he doesn't want with very good reasons.

    Does AB3 or ApeMatrix have the same behavior when hardware is disconnected? Maybe they are better suited for live audio engineering tasks to avoid this feedback storm.

  • wimwim
    edited October 2020

    Most apps and hosts do have a "feedback warning". Some also have a setting to turn that off if desired. That is a very reasonable feature request.

    It's dumb, though, to poo-poo providing workaround suggestions to someone who can benefit from them until a feature request is implemented - if ever. :|

    If it's a good feature request, a developer is unlikely to say no to it just because there are workarounds. It might affect the relative priority against other requests ... but I would argue it should affect the priority if the workarounds are reasonable.

  • edited October 2020

    Plz dont change AUM. better to treat it like any hardware mixer aka unplug,turn down etc, whats up with all the automation bs, just learn to mute the dam channels. Hoy Caramba

  • Though fair enough, it's like having a mixing desk and every time an instrument is unplugged some munchkin sneaks along and plugs in a mic that's positioned next to a speaker. (OK, so you'd mute the channel before unplugging anything but just making a point)

  • ^ good point. :D

  • McDMcD
    edited October 2020

    The back and forth on the issue helps increase the possibility it will be addressed.

    AUM gets changed with every release and always with the eye towards not breaking anything
    that people rely on.

    Is there a case where the external audio input (via USB/Lightning) changing to the internal mic without
    user intervention is a must keep.

    @wim said:
    It's dumb, though, to poo-poo providing workaround suggestions to someone who can benefit from them until a feature request is implemented - if ever. :|

    Yes. That would be dumb. There are more more workarounds suggested here without complaints.
    But I didn't want the tide to shift to "He's just doing it wrong" without acknowledging the potential for
    something bad to happen in a live situation. I unplugged mic's in live situations and created a loud bump
    but never created unintended feedback. This is not good for live uses and could be fixed for that requirement. We are so close to live uses of IOS that make buying hardware a step down in capability.
    All I have seen IOS used for in live venues is to run a wireless GUI for the 'board' and some networks
    of iPhone cameras for video switching apps. But no one would trust it for the mixing function do to
    poor design choices like defaulting to the mic without the ability to black that action.

    If some of this is "poo" I can't smell it.

    If it's a good feature request, a developer is unlikely to say no to it just because there are workarounds. It might affect the relative priority against other requests ... but I would argue it should affect the priority if the workarounds are reasonable.

    MIDI slaving was rejected but requested over and over... its now being considered if not implemented.
    Our voices collectively matter. "Poo poo" is a statistical function. I vote for this option in the setting.
    "Manual changes to inputs ONLY".

  • edited October 2020

    no. plz no. I want my HW to be automatically dis and connected.

  • @McD said:
    ... unplugged mic's in live situations and created a loud bump
    but never created unintended feedback. This is not good for live uses and could be fixed for that requirement. We are so close to live uses of IOS that make buying hardware a step down in capability.

    This is a very good point. All it would take is for a power, cable, or interface failure to create a bad situation.

  • OK. I thought through the use cases.

    I use a cheap guitar interface for the USB audio in.
    The audio out is to the headphones on my mature iPad.

    On my new iPhone I don't have a headphone out so I bought a Zoom U-44.
    So, if the Zoom is disconnected there's NO audio potential to blast feedback through a PA.

    So, this is a couch potato annoyance.

    Never mind. Poo layered on poo. AUM rocks.

    A live engineer will use a multi-port audio hardware unit with multi-port (if possible) audio outs.
    Different use case. Never use a coach potato musician to design your live rig using flawed logic.

    Stand down. I'm done here.

  • @wim said:

    @McD said:
    ... unplugged mic's in live situations and created a loud bump
    but never created unintended feedback. This is not good for live uses and could be fixed for that requirement. We are so close to live uses of IOS that make buying hardware a step down in capability.

    This is a very good point. All it would take is for a power, cable, or interface failure to create a bad situation.

    Yes but it's complicated given that audio out (to the power system) comes out through the single Lightning or USB-C cable in live work. I'm complaining about headphone and internal speaker feedback and that's just a user doing stupid things like unplugging something without using the suggested tips.

    I am wrong. @j_liljedahl probably saw this as that ramblings of the rabble and is busy perfecting
    MIDI slaving which is definitely important to so many that throw MIDI at AUM using Xequence.

    FYI: I made a Xequence 2 into AUM set up and both the Xequence 2 transport and the AUM transport are
    working to start everything with good sync. Did I miss the party or has this been working for a long time.
    My biggest headaches were the Lumbeats apps but that seems to have been sorted out as well with Link.

    What's the biggest feature request outstanding for AUM? MIDI slave to external hardware clocks.
    Loop start/stop metadata? (Changing the topic).

  • Hmm, glad this sparked a discussion but it’s a bit disconcerting to have to worry over what hearing damage could occur if something as simple as my iPad Pro’s USB-C cable getting unplugged by accident or without careful forethought. It’s a risk trade off but the potential downside is bad enough IMO (take my hearing very seriously after suffering tinnitus long ago) to warrant some more reliable fallback.

  • @wahnfrieden said:
    Hmm, glad this sparked a discussion but it’s a bit disconcerting to have to worry over what hearing damage could occur if something as simple as my iPad Pro’s USB-C cable getting unplugged by accident or without careful forethought. It’s a risk trade off but the potential downside is bad enough IMO (take my hearing very seriously after suffering tinnitus long ago) to warrant some more reliable fallback.

    Developing a consistent habit about using Limiters for anything going to the headphones is really
    important. Many on this site have experienced hearing loss when they have blasted with the full power of the iPads potential audio power.

    Most of us forget this and learn the hard way. It's probably wise to use an AUM templet that puts
    Limiters on all channels that you can delete if unneeded.

    Unplugging the USB input will probably not send the output to max signals but some FX have these
    tendencies... ApeFilter does if I recall correctly. When headphones are used the feedback loop is also
    unlikely since the mic can't get a strong headphone signal.

    So don't be alarmed but learn from the wizard's best practices or sacrifice your hearing to the Gods of
    IOS.

  • On my eternally long TODO list, there's one item about this. My idea is that AUM could detect that a route change is happening which would bring it back to "internal mic", and then automatically mute/bypass the input node. Or even mark the node as "unavailable" (red-striped) so user need to tap it to see a message about it, and then tap "reload", just like when an IAA/AUv3 node crashes.

    However, I fail to see the real concern about this issue. If you have an external audio interface connected, it will use the ins and outs of that interface. If you unplug it, you also unplug the outputs so it will bring the device back to internal mic + speaker. I doubt any feedback between internal mic + speaker would be dangerous for your hearing! If that were the case, the same problem would arise if you just play music at max level with the internal speaker. And if that would be dangerous, Apple would get sued :) People are often scared about high pitched feedback noises, even though they're actually not loud.

    Here's a really simple work-around: just turn down your internal speaker volume to 0%.

    Cheers

  • @j_liljedahl said:
    If you have an external audio interface connected, it will use the ins and outs of that interface. If you unplug it, you also unplug the outputs so it will bring the device back to internal mic + speaker.

    This is very true, it's only the internal speaker which runs out of control. Still unnerving though. Possible use as sonic weapon of mass destruction limited.

  • @SpartanClownTide said:

    @j_liljedahl said:
    If you have an external audio interface connected, it will use the ins and outs of that interface. If you unplug it, you also unplug the outputs so it will bring the device back to internal mic + speaker.

    This is very true, it's only the internal speaker which runs out of control. Still unnerving though. Possible use as sonic weapon of mass destruction limited.

    In theory this sounds good, but if you have a guitar input and you load up an instance of AUM that has a guitar but it's not plugged in, but your speakers are, you get a feedback loop through your speakers. Happened to me over the weekend and I've since been swiping the input over. A feature to combat this would be helpful.

  • @j_liljedahl said:

    However, I fail to see the real concern about this issue. If you have an external audio interface connected, it will use the ins and outs of that interface. If you unplug it, you also unplug the outputs so it will bring the device back to internal mic + speaker.

    I guess everyone's setup is different, but for me "unplugging" is not a concern - but loading presets is.

    1) I sometimes run the iPad as host, with my mixer as the audio interface for the iPad. Lot's of AUM presets set up for this.
    2) Then, I sometimes run it just as an "audio module" plugged into the mixer with audio cable, and mac/Ableton as host.

    Now accidentally (or intentionally :smiley: ) load a preset made in scenario 1) (yes, they are unfortunately not always wisely named) when running scenario 2) - and speakers and family goes wild.

  • edited October 2020

    Plz, dont mess AUM up.
    People use best practices , turn down , unplug, plug in, turn up. repeat <--
    Its aa user problem. Not a software problem.
    Edit; partly BS from my side see below :# B)

  • edited October 2020

    Wait! I think I have a quickfix... If you turn "measurement mode" (high quality) ON, what I understand - turns the built in MIC auto-gain off , really helps for the nasty volume spikes blastin builtin speakers, try it!
    AUM;

    AB3 got this too hidden inside iOS settings;

  • @noob said:
    Wait! I think I have a quickfix... If you turn "measurement mode" (high quality) ON, what I understand - turns the built in MIC auto-gain off , really helps for the nasty volume spikes blastin builtin speakers, try it!

    Yes.I just loaded a typical guitar project without the hardware plugged in an got feedback.
    I tried your workaround and repeated and the iPad is blessedly silent. Nice.

    Solved for me.

  • @Peblin said:

    @j_liljedahl said:

    However, I fail to see the real concern about this issue. If you have an external audio interface connected, it will use the ins and outs of that interface. If you unplug it, you also unplug the outputs so it will bring the device back to internal mic + speaker.

    I guess everyone's setup is different, but for me "unplugging" is not a concern - but loading presets is.

    1) I sometimes run the iPad as host, with my mixer as the audio interface for the iPad. Lot's of AUM presets set up for this.
    2) Then, I sometimes run it just as an "audio module" plugged into the mixer with audio cable, and mac/Ableton as host.

    Now accidentally (or intentionally :smiley: ) load a preset made in scenario 1) (yes, they are unfortunately not always wisely named) when running scenario 2) - and speakers and family goes wild.

    Ok, and how is the iPad connected to your console in scenario 2 exactly? 3.5mm audio jack out, so it's using the internal mic?

  • @j_liljedahl said:

    @Peblin said:

    @j_liljedahl said:

    However, I fail to see the real concern about this issue. If you have an external audio interface connected, it will use the ins and outs of that interface. If you unplug it, you also unplug the outputs so it will bring the device back to internal mic + speaker.

    I guess everyone's setup is different, but for me "unplugging" is not a concern - but loading presets is.

    1) I sometimes run the iPad as host, with my mixer as the audio interface for the iPad. Lot's of AUM presets set up for this.
    2) Then, I sometimes run it just as an "audio module" plugged into the mixer with audio cable, and mac/Ableton as host.

    Now accidentally (or intentionally :smiley: ) load a preset made in scenario 1) (yes, they are unfortunately not always wisely named) when running scenario 2) - and speakers and family goes wild.

    Ok, and how is the iPad connected to your console in scenario 2 exactly? 3.5mm audio jack out, so it's using the internal mic?

    Yeah, exactly.

  • @McD said:

    @noob said:
    Wait! I think I have a quickfix... If you turn "measurement mode" (high quality) ON, what I understand - turns the built in MIC auto-gain off , really helps for the nasty volume spikes blastin builtin speakers, try it!

    Yes.I just loaded a typical guitar project without the hardware plugged in an got feedback.
    I tried your workaround and repeated and the iPad is blessedly silent. Nice.

    Solved for me.

    Update - this also solved it for me until I learned AUM forgets this setting, so it looks like this is a “fact of life” to accept for now. Thanks for the help

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