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Best sounding orchestral instruments?

I’m using Notion right now. While the notation editing is pretty good, the sounds are..... not.
Ideally I’d like a notation editor on the iPad that has great sounds. I’ll settle for something that accepts midi input and I can use Xequence to compose.
Any suggestions? Thanks.

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Comments

  • @Antkn33 said:
    I’m using Notion right now. While the notation editing is pretty good, the sounds are..... not.
    Ideally I’d like a notation editor on the iPad that has great sounds. I’ll settle for something that accepts midi input and I can use Xequence to compose.
    Any suggestions? Thanks.

    If you want to stick with notation, StaffPad may be what you are looking for. It is a hefty investment though with the IAPs - each orchestral section is $99. Base app plus a “full” orchestra may be $500-$600. I have yet to take this plunge.

    If you are looking at what the best sounds are that iOS currently has to offer that won’t break the bank (maybe bend it):

    iSymphonic - Most IAPs, but may want to pick and choose
    Heavy Brass - iPad Only
    BeatHawk- amazing choirs, orchestral, percussion, woodwinds IAPs, again pick and choose to taste
    Pure Synth Platinum - some great patches/ samples here too, that are not behind a paywall.
    FingerFiddle - best sounding string quartet sounds (all solo instruments) on iOS IMO - but no midi in or out. You learn how to “play” using the touchscreen.

  • Holey crap. I can’t imagine paying that much for an iOS app.
    I’ll look at the others. I wish devs would take advantage of the app trial feature.

  • There was also a thread somewhere where a kind soul that made some orchestral patches for NS2’s Obsidian.

  • Wow those are pretty good!

    @drez said:

    That’s the one! Thank you @mjcouche 🙏

  • @mjcouche said:
    If you want to stick with notation, StaffPad may be what you are looking for. It is a hefty investment though with the IAPs - each orchestral section is $99. Base app plus a “full” orchestra may be $500-$600. I have yet to take this plunge.

    The $90 StaffPad product includes 55 instruments so if "notation" is a benefit that's probably a step up in
    sample quality from Notion and a must have if you prefer using a pencil to write music notation. There are people that make those dots and can hear the sounds they make. The In-App Sample Libraries are
    probably worth their prices on the desktop but come as a shock to us IOS buyers. But I'm sure they are
    more thorough in other coverage of articulations needed to really simulate orchestral palates of sounds
    you can notate and expect the orchestra to follow.

    The Nanostudio package is 903MB of wave files labeled for easy import into most samples using the
    naming standard of Instrument and Note (i.e "CelloVib A4.wav"). So, it could be handy for Drambo, AudioLayer, Chameleon, etc. to hand pick or auto-import instrument sets.

    For superfast orchestral sound simulations without a lot of fuss the "Hybrid Acoustic" IAP for Roli Noise Melody is fun. ISymphonic and Beathawk are also great to create a cinematic impression easily and
    many synths do great string sections and brass clones.

  • @Antkn33 said:
    Wow those are pretty good!

    @drez said:

    That’s the one! Thank you @mjcouche 🙏

    Wow, another goodie I've missed during phases of severe Drambonsciousness 🤭
    Thanks!

  • @rs2000 said:

    Wow, another goodie I've missed during phases of severe Drambonsciousness 🤭

    What are the possible uses for sample sets in Drambo? How far can the Flexi sampler be pushed
    towards an AudioLayer like capability to load an instrument? Would it get out of hand or be something
    you could package and share easily.

    I'm going to suck a couple of these Obsidian instruments into AudioLayer to see how playable they are without a lot of extra steps.

    For anyone headed off to load them into NS2... be advised the loading process takes a few minutes so be patient. It's working away in the background. Many pieces have been made using these samples and
    this is a real selling point for NS2 to have this capability without needing to load 15+ tracks of AUv3's and
    have the DAW crap out as you add those final instrumental touches.

  • @McD
    In Drambo, you'd rather use the Sampler module for multisampled instruments with up to 4 velocity layers.
    It can't replace AudioLayer though, except for simple instrument patches.
    Also, unlike AL, it will always load the whole sample set into memory.

    Indeed, for larger custom instruments, AL is the only option on iOS as far as I know.

  • McDMcD
    edited August 2020

    @rs2000 said:
    @McD
    In Drambo, you'd rather use the Sampler module for multisampled instruments with up to 4 velocity layers.
    It can't replace AudioLayer though, except for simple instrument patches.
    Also, unlike AL, it will always load the whole sample set into memory.

    Indeed, for larger custom instruments, AL is the only option on iOS as far as I know.

    Thanks. I'm downloading StaffPad... OK. I loaded the "Welcome to StaffPad" demo score
    to hear the quality of the default instruments. Not bad. I exported to audio and uploaded
    the wave to Soundcloud via Audioshare:

    Now I need to import a midi project from Cubasis as test #2.

  • @McD Oh man here we go...the forum at it’s best, edging us ever closer to that spending precipice. Curious to how your import goes.

  • There are a few decent SF based sample players like Bismark but after a lot of experimenting I find myself using iSymphony for full orchestra ... and if soloing something or dropping a melody line on top I use the Audio Modelling SWAM banks in Roli's NOISE. Need a decent MPE controller to get the best out of them and not cheap but lovely ear candy. Will do till I get a real orchestra anyway.

  • McDMcD
    edited August 2020

    @McD said:
    Now I need to import a midi project from Cubasis as test #2.

    Can't get Cubasis MIDI mixes to open in StaffPad but a Beethoven Symphony from the internet open
    and even got most of the instruments right so it played right away. So, MIDI imports look solid. I should look for MusicXML files and see if any of my DAW's output in that format.

    I open the STORE in the app and was blown away by the products available. A Solo Cello (Tina Guo recorded at the MGM SoundStage by CineSamples) for $40. I could see spending $1,000's here overtime.
    But this is a whole different paradigm.... MusicXML or MIDI in and audio out.

    Here's another demo from StaffPad... there are plenty of quality instruments to get started with but the impulse to spend will be great:

    Time to figure out how to insert notes with the pencil. Other than some doodles Procreate this will be my first real use of the pencil.

  • edited August 2020

    Staffpad for sure but it is not made for live input. The playback engine is fantastic and i think even the best from all similar tools on all platforms.
    Otherwise i really love some sounds from iSymphonic, even more than some things i have in my 100+ GB Kontakt libraries on my mac.
    BUT iSymphonic performance is really bad. A bit unstable, the lack of proper envelope shaping, some sounds really sounds cut off at release, dynamics are not that great.
    Once i sampled my favorite iSymphonic sounds into a sampler with better options for performance it is like night and day and it indeed can compete with much larger libraries or things like Staffpad.
    Of course if you want a lot variable articulations and legato there is nothing great on iOS beside Staffpad.

  • @McD said:

    I'm going to suck a couple of these Obsidian instruments into AudioLayer to see how playable they are without a lot of extra steps.

    They import easily into AudioLayer (once you get them in the correct folder) and should be considered by anyone that uses AudioLayer to make sampled instruments. They are a gift.

  • Nice track!

    @McD said:

    @rs2000 said:
    @McD
    In Drambo, you'd rather use the Sampler module for multisampled instruments with up to 4 velocity layers.
    It can't replace AudioLayer though, except for simple instrument patches.
    Also, unlike AL, it will always load the whole sample set into memory.

    Indeed, for larger custom instruments, AL is the only option on iOS as far as I know.

    Thanks. I'm downloading StaffPad... OK. I loaded the "Welcome to StaffPad" demo score
    to hear the quality of the default instruments. Not bad. I exported to audio and uploaded
    the wave to Soundcloud via Audioshare:

    Now I need to import a midi project from Cubasis as test #2.

  • Wow that really sounds fantastic

    @McD said:

    @McD said:
    Now I need to import a midi project from Cubasis as test #2.

    Can't get Cubasis MIDI mixes to open in StaffPad but a Beethoven Symphony from the internet open
    and even got most of the instruments right so it played right away. So, MIDI imports look solid. I should look for MusicXML files and see if any of my DAW's output in that format.

    I open the STORE in the app and was blown away by the products available. A Solo Cello (Tina Guo recorded at the MGM SoundStage by CineSamples) for $40. I could see spending $1,000's here overtime.
    But this is a whole different paradigm.... MusicXML or MIDI in and audio out.

    Here's another demo from StaffPad... there are plenty of quality instruments to get started with but the impulse to spend will be great:

    Time to figure out how to insert notes with the pencil. Other than some doodles Procreate this will be my first real use of the pencil.

  • TO BE CLEAR: Both of those audio samples are just the product demos. There are 3-4 more that are just as good. They are created by a composer... David William Hearn. He is also responsible for the creation of StaffPad.

    Yes. I'm very happy with the features of Staffpads (sounds and handwriting scores). I'm currently looking into importing MIDI. I think I'll try improvising keyboard tracks and clipping out portions I like in Cubasis.
    Then I can easily export/import the notes into StaffPad and orchestrate the ideas. Then I can render the
    music into a wave file and pull that back into Cubasis and potentially add guitar, vocals or specific AUv3
    apps. $90 is a huge investment but StaffPad is a whole new wrinkle on IOS production. The internal samples allow for articulations and precise details I can't imagine generating in a typical DAW.

    But I am GAS'ing on the Solo Violin and Solo Cello and the SampleSet of Orchestral 1st Chairs (soloist for each orchestral selection) and on and on. Any desktop creator using this approach will know the impulse to collect more and more beautifully crafted sample products from SpitFire, CineSamples, Native Instruments, Omnisphere, etc. As an addict I need to be very, very cautious. "One day at a time."

    IOS is my methadone. StaffPad is like crack. Be advised. Of course being comfortable with notation is a big plus but MIDI import/export with Wave rendering might open the door for some to check it out and just use the notation for volumes, transposing, copy/paste in blocks, etc.

  • To get a sense of what the StaffPad creative experience could be like check out this video:

    It's a 3 hour session so just jump around to hear the piece evolve. I have only watched the first 30 minutes so far. It's a different paradigm.

  • Not a synth or instrument and not sure if it’s been mentioned but the Philharmonia sample pack covers over 20 Orchestral instruments and they various types of multisamples, not just regular one note hits, but samples with hammers, plucks, and other different little flourishes that make this sample pack great and oh yea it’s FREE!

    https://philharmonia.co.uk/resources/sound-samples/

  • My vote goes to Staffpad if you have the orchestration skills

  • @cloudswimmer said:
    My vote goes to Staffpad if you have the orchestration skills

    It does have MIDI import capability but I'm having some issues getting it to import
    some complex Cubasis arrangements. Sad but some have imported and I can then assign instruments
    and not have to take the note entry route to get a great rendering with the 55 internal instruments.

    There's a huge library or sound libraries that run across a gamit of styles. I'm coveting the
    solo strings, the ambient collection of pads with a dreamy piano, the orchestral percussion and
    on and on... a massive money pit awaits.

    I can always export a wave file and then add more rendering in the usual IOS DAW's assuming the clocks all stay in sync or the DAW has tools to keep everything aligned.

  • @McD, can you play in the notes?

  • @LinearLineman said:
    @McD, can you play in the notes?

    No. It's a pencil-based interface. The MIDI import from Cubasis keeps crashing on import.
    I'm trying their support interface... they use Zendesk (an IT help line service).

    I'm going to keep pushing to learn to make it jump. The note drawing interface is going to require
    a lot of practice. I watch videos and they don't seem to have the same problems with note recognition
    that I'm having. I have about 4 bars written for strings and it sounds god enough to keep me motivated
    to work at it.

    It's got the potential to make finished work that I would never create any other way. But you have to
    have the notation background. Yet another approach for IOS. The one good feature is the instant playback. It doesn't need anytime to create a rendering... it's instant and changing voices, copy groups,
    transposing are easy.

    I should try other DAWs to see if the MIDI imports. Cubasis is giving me fits... Cubasis 2 and 3 fail to
    transfer complex MIDI arrangements. I'll keep trying because I did send some AUM MIDI into Cubasis
    and that single track MIDI did import but I haven't found a way to import 1 track at a time. It's all
    or nothing. I should look to see if there's a user forum.

  • I'm yet to find a better solution for orchestral instruments than my old Alesis Nanosynth module that I picked up on ebay for £15 as a teenager and forgot about -- I toiled with multi-GB software libraries and samplers for years and the more high quality I found, the more detailed into editing/performing samples I dived, the more 'HD' the sounds, the more imperfection was apparent and the more it bothered me and felt 'unrealistic'.

    Then I dug out an old sound module from a long forgotten case of old equipment and played around with it for a laugh .. Instant gratification!! 640 patches covering hundreds of orchestral and other instruments all packed into 8MB of ROM!! The sounds aren't as realistic isolated, but they're damn sure as nice to listen to. With a good blend (I have the full orchestra mixed inside the module by sending CCs 7, 10 and 91 for vol, pan, reverb) and some arrangement nuance, I've got more satisfying (and even 'believable' in context) results out of this as I have from any other source. Some of the patches also have vibrato on CC 1 and others have a subtle lo-pass dampening effect which allows for a bit more nuance.

    Old gear probably isn't a perfect solution for everyone -- some people will need special performance effects or want carefully calculated numbers of players (I just approximate the effect using dynamic & volume control as well as splitting some of the sections up -- a manuscript can be reworked for a real ensemble later if needed) but for pure functionality, this solution struck the balance for me.

    If you're looking to actually pick up a module though I'd suggest to look for JV1080 units with orchestral add on -- I've not actually used one but the Nanosynth did make me work around some limitations to get good results (plus the pianos mostly sound terrible -- though the harpsichords are lovely) and those JV1080 units are legendary -- would love to get my hands on one with the Orchestral modules.

  • edited August 2020

    I gathered all the issues I found in StaffPad while testing it and posted them here all in one place -

    https://mobilemusic.us/articles/ios/191-staffpad-review-and-issues

  • edited August 2020

    @McD said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    @McD, can you play in the notes?

    No. It's a pencil-based interface. The MIDI import from Cubasis keeps crashing on import.
    I'm trying their support interface... they use Zendesk (an IT help line service).

    I'm going to keep pushing to learn to make it jump. The note drawing interface is going to require
    a lot of practice. I watch videos and they don't seem to have the same problems with note recognition
    that I'm having.

    How to get Staffpad to recognize your notation

  • A few other tips on how to get the recognition to work well:
    - draw fast rather than slow
    - don’t zoom in too much before drawing
    - don’t put too much into each bar right away, better to do it incrementally

    The first two may seem counter-intuitive, but it’s because they result in fewer ”stroke points” being processed, which makes the recognition more reliable.

    There’s a good and quite active facebook group for Staffpad where people have posted a lot of examples using the various libraries. On VI Control there’s a Staffpad forum as well (https://vi-control.net/community/forums/staffpad-other-pen-entry-notation-devices.184/)

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