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Jim Audio Pure Acid vs. Behringer TD-3 (+ vs. Troublemaker)

edited December 2019 in General App Discussion

Small A/B test :) TD-3 is first, plays pattern, then Pure Acid with same settings plays same pattern, then TD-3 plays different pattern, again Pure Acid with same settings same pattern, and so on .. 14 different settings..

EDIT:

On request, added Troublemaker to the game. Of course Troublemaker is a bit different becasue it adds more than just ordinary 303 cloning - more oscillator waves and that cool "punch" feature which alters character of envelope. Still - i think it holds pretty good with other two, definitely great job too !

Btw. i use two troblemaker tracks in this example - one with SQUARE and one with SAW becasue "wave" parameter automation wasn't working in NS.

Btw2. I'm not 100% sure with exact settings in last 3-4 patterns, so sorry if i did mistake.

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Comments

  • That was great, well done- thanks.
    Quite incredible how similar they are, for me at least. It reinforces to me that I no longer need any hardware 303 emulators.. and shows off what a good job Jim has done on Pure Acid

  • @dendy said:
    Small A/B test :) TD-3 is first, plays pattern, then Pure Acid with same settings plays same pattern, then TD-3 plays different pattern, again Pure Acid with same settings same pattern, and so on .. 14 different settings..

    great job! comes down to abstract words like weight and thump 3D. Very Close.

  • Good Comparison 👍
    I like Pure Audio’s slides better.

  • I told you that the PA was a great 303 emulation, why do you never believe me?
    Sorry ... stressful day.

  • @R_2 said:
    Good Comparison 👍
    I like Pure Audio’s slides better.

    The insane mod guys believe the slide is shorter on the TD-3, Alot of people complained that the ms101 clone slides were to long. Behringer just aint got that slide down.

  • you did a good job of trying to match the sounds as close as possible.
    i find PA has a tad more oomph but lacks a bit in the chirps.
    what were your conclusions?

  • edited December 2019

    subjectively, TD-3 has a tiny bit more in bass spectrum - it is more "round" in bass, or how to define it - but nothing you can't get wit a bit EQ on Pure Acid..

    Difference, to my ears, is more like when you take two different 303 units - even those will not play 1:1 same ;)

    Still don't regret i bought TD-3, just because of nostalgy :) Anyway, @jimpavloff did really amazing job with emulation ! Most probably in 90% cases i will be lazy to record HW and will use PA in my tracks :lol:

    Btw. TD-3 filter was really a bit more opened than it should be, i trimmed it a little bit down...

  • @Faland said:
    I told you that the PA was a great 303 emulation, why do you never believe me?
    Sorry ... stressful day.

    A-one, a-two.... you know what to do! (Play Pure Acid, of course! 🙃)

    About the OP... couldn’t tell the difference. Thanks!

  • edited December 2019

    I haven’t heard either of these but worth noting that YouTube isn’t the best place for comparison videos, or anything audio related.

  • @BlueGreenSpiral said:
    I haven’t heard either of these but worth noting that YouTube isn’t the best place for comparison videos, or anything audio related.

    In this case both sources will suck equally so a comparison between the two can still be made.

  • edited December 2019

    Nick Batt from Sonic State and some others will often use an oscilloscope when reviewing synths.

    YouTube should really do something about the audio situation. Ridiculous that you need the photo of an album cover uploaded as hd video with hefty file size to get the option of sort of acceptable sound quality!

  • Not sure if these guys are serious 🤔, but it’s like if you have two photographs of people who look like they’re the same person and both photos have jpg artifacts.

  • edited December 2019

    @BlueGreenSpiral
    I haven’t heard either of these but worth noting that YouTube isn’t the best place for comparison videos, or anything audio related.

    in reality i don't hear literally ANY signifficant difference when i'm listening that video on highest available quality, compared to original directly from HW on my Sennheisser Hd650 or Presonus Eris E8 :))))

    That is fact. Not theory. Youtube quality is totally sufficient for such comparison

    We don't need to analyse this with scientific precision, musically you can very clearly hear that obviously it doesn't matter if you use TD3 or PA in your track - after you apply some EQ, some FXs - there is no chance that in context of track anybody on earth will be able to identify if you used TD or PA ;)

    Rest is just academic debate, unimportant for me as musician ;)

  • edited December 2019

    The funny side is that we musicians are the only people we care about all these comparisons. No one else knows and cares nothing about digital, analog, emulations and so on. The only question is whether the music they listen to is good or not.

  • @BlueGreenSpiral said:
    I haven’t heard either of these but worth noting that YouTube isn’t the best place for comparison videos, or anything audio related.

    This reminds me of those comparisons videos between Moogs Model D app and the actual hardware, nope really can't hear any difference. I think they did a phenomenal job with the app but I suspect hearing the two in the same room might be a bit more revealing. More a case for live music really.

  • edited December 2019

    @SpartanClownTide
    This reminds me of those comparisons videos between Moogs Model D app and the actual hardware, nope really can't hear any difference.
    . I think they did a phenomenal job with the app but I suspect hearing the two in the same room might be a bit more revealing.

    It was !! But not because YT videos would hide some details. It was because biggest difference is in area which is basically not covered by any comparison video - when you turn resonance to MAX, and D is really "screaming", there is vast difference in sound, not subtle. In this sound area Model D app sounds ugly as shit, aliased, distorted, bad bad bad. On other side Behringer Model D sounds beautifully smooth ..

    Just last weekend compared those two. Until then i though i don't need Model D because i have app. Now i'm pretty sure i need Model D HW :-D :-D :-D

  • edited December 2019

    I’m not referring to this video, have something
    that’s keeping me out of trouble with acid already!

    Just a rant about YouTube audio quality, not everyone is uploading HD stuff!

    I haven’t even checked the video, my apologies for not being clear about that earlier.

  • Amazing comparison. Hardware vs software. Recorded naked as the day they were born and listening through earphones and I couldn’t tell which was which in a blind test.
    Impressive how close software emulation is to real hardware.

  • edited December 2019

    Both sound good to me, I suppose it comes down to whether you want the hardware interface or not and how much you want to spend.

  • Added Troublemaker ;-)

  • it really surprises me people cant tell the difference. I find this happens a lot and I find it really bizarre.

  • @dendy said:
    Added Troublemaker ;-)

    😎

  • @[Deleted User] said:
    it really surprises me people cant tell the difference. I find this happens a lot and I find it really bizarre.

    I’m looking for “significant” difference (IMHO) and often not hearing enough of a difference to be worth the $. So the choice comes down to other things than the sound.

  • @Faland said:
    The funny side is that we musicians are the only people we care about all these comparisons. No one else knows and cares nothing about digital, analog, emulations and so on. The only question is whether the music they listen to is good or not.

    Exactly! 😎

  • edited December 2019

    @anickt said:

    @Faland said:
    The funny side is that we musicians are the only people we care about all these comparisons. No one else knows and cares nothing about digital, analog, emulations and so on. The only question is whether the music they listen to is good or not.

    Exactly! 😎

    In a comparison test like this most people don't care and will say it sounds the same, I say most because a few will hear differences which matter to them. What happens to the the musician who is using this gear. Do you play it for a few minutes then move on to the next thing or does the device have something which makes you want to keep using it for countless hours and years. That's the difference in sound. That's why people who buy a original SH-101 go 'Ahhhhhh now I get it' it still overpriced but there is a reason for it. My mate bought his first analogue gear, a Moog GM, he told me the same thing 'now i get it' Herbie Hancock comes to mind, his sound in the 70's was incredible then later he start using computers and Yamaha's etc to recreate the same music... it sounded like pants. Saying this I have a Casio CZ-1 which is digital (nothing really sounds like that either IMO) so it not just about analogue.

    I'm not trying to knock any app here (i use a ton) but there is a difference and it can be more noticeable than is initially apparent sometimes. Hope this makes some sense :blush:

  • Pure Acid sounds like a living creature.
    I like. Everybody else make inferior potassium.

  • I want to support @[Deleted User] by saying that i also hear a noticeable difference. In many situations, especially with fx in a dense arrangement, PA and also TM come close enough to replace a 303 IMO.
    But for me, its mostly the second example of the comparison, where PA and TM, and also TD3 cannot sufficiently reproduce this bubbly, bouncy sound of a 303 (words fail to describe this - just listen to some tracks from Emmanuel Top...). I think some tracks would not even exist without that special sound. On the other hand, the screaming distorted sound of a 303 can be reproduced by many clones appropriately.
    Of course this is my just opinion, but i think some other people grown up with acid would agree.
    Need to add that i love using the apps from @jimpavloff and @brambos. Both make a fantastic job and i would not hesitate to recommend their apps to anyone making music with IOS!

  • edited December 2019

    @tgt21
    TD3 cannot sufficiently reproduce this bubbly, bouncy sound of a 303

    it definitely can. You can easily tune filter even lower by trimpot. I tuned it in comparation with PA ti match them as close as possible (by default, TD3 filter is really tuned too high, probably they used as reference some 303 with improperly tuned filter).

    Even after intuned my filter down, filter tunning trimpot was still just on 1/2 of it's value, so there is SIGNIFICANT space to tunr filter lot more down - if you want..

    I will later record example how deep it can really go but i think it can go even deeper than original 303 in it's defaul factory settings :))))

  • or if there is snybody with real 303, please record some sequence with few accent notes on square wave with these settings:

    1/ cutoff:0 reso:max env:0 decay:0 accent:max

    2/ curoff:max (rest same as 1/)

    and i'll try tune my TD3 filter to exactly match that recording...

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