OT: The Enemy Within

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  • According to sources I have a tendency to trust, those people who are truly running the show are such people as pedophiles and murderers.
    Are you serious?

  • @ExAsperis99 said:
    According to sources I have a tendency to trust, those people who are truly running the show are such people as pedophiles and murderers.
    Are you serious?

    Why?
    Were you thinking Reptilians?

  • I've seen the boogeyman and he is us...

    or to rephrase it, the power belongs to the people, the people hold the most power, even if they don't use it the people are the power..... but you can see what kind of notions the people support with their power, unfortunately in the most kind and respectable terms, the people ain't sh*t...

  • @kobamoto said:
    I've seen the boogeyman and he is us...

    or to rephrase it, the power belongs to the people, the people hold the most power, even if they don't use it the people are the power..... but you can see what kind of notions the people support with their power, unfortunately in the most kind and respectable terms, the people ain't sh*t...

    I would agree that we share much responsibility for the way things are. We absolutely have the opportunity and power to change things for the better. We are more than just helpless victims. However, I would add that we are also allowing ourselves to be distracted, and in my personal opinion, spend too much time and energy fighting amongst ourselves.

  • @ExAsperis99 said:
    According to sources I have a tendency to trust, those people who are truly running the show are such people as pedophiles and murderers.
    Are you serious?

    Yes, I am absolutely serious, but would not ask, or expect you to simply take the words of a stranger. I basically got to the point where finding out why things have gotten to the place where we are became more important to me than watching television, movies, and other fruitless distractions. I started looking for answers, and then soon after, I began to find them. There are still good people in the world, and some of them have answers to questions like “why is the world so messed up?” If you simply begin to think critically, and examine things more closely, there are answers out there, & some great people who are doing everything they can to change this place for the better. I have a new granddaughter that I love very much, and I believe that the world she grows up in can be better than the place it is now.

  • edited May 4

    Politics seem to bring out the worst in people, particularly on forums that are focused on the subject 24/7. It’s the nature of the beast in its current devolved form, especially in an era when elected leaders and others with a public platform/megaphone help foster the notion of it being a tribal bloodsport, encouraging people to view and treat anyone in opposing tribes/sides as “the enemy”

    The only online forums where I’ve encountered a healthy, substantive debate on the topic are forums that are based on shared interests outside of the realm of politics; where people have connected through their mutual pleasures and passions in life. People aren’t as likely to tear into and demonize/dehumanize fellow human beings that they’ve previously discovered they have a lot in common with. The motive to maintain equilibrium and mutual respect is stronger.

    That’s why I tend to agree with those who have no problem with this discussion here, so long as the goal is a good faith debate and avoiding the type of shitposts that are only intended to ruffle feathers. So long as these discussions are kept isolated from the other areas of the forum where they obviously don’t belong and are clearly marked OT, it could be a positive thing. strive for excellence!

    P.s. I agree with the people who want to avoid politics as well, . Sometimes I just have to take a break from it. Maybe its different for some, but its easy for me to show self restraint and just avoid reading certain threads when I’m not in the mood for it.

  • Some conclusions (in no particular order....

    1. I am proud to be a member of this community (and relieved I have not made an utter fool of myself). This is a nerve touching topic and we have managed, with over 1300 views, to restrain impulsive, knee jerk reactions. No abusive remarks, no belittling. True civil discourse.

    2. Some might say... who could argue with the wrongness of Mario's hatred and murderous intent? It is indefensible. I say, on the contrary, in these tumultuous times, rationales for the most indecent behavior are abundant and spring from the Very heart of power, making them, to the morally corrupt, totally acceptable and, indeed, necessary to promote change.

    So let me play the sophist... to paraphrase Mario... someone should have murdered Hitler when he was born. But that didn't happen. Perhaps someone will have the courage to assassinate him now. Any volunteers? Most of us would've supported a plot to kill Hitler. Von Clausewitz said "War is the continuation of politics by other means. The Russian Revolution promoted that change, when necessary, can justifiably be promoted by violence. If I were mired in conspiracy theories and ultra right wing propaganda, I could see Mario as a patriot. Just as a a Muslim fundamentalist might admire a suicide bomber. A defense of violence need not be based on truth to be an effective bulldozer to bring down established institutions and moral conventions.

    1. Only two posters came to the defense of divisiveness' mouthpiece. One pointed to his list of accomplishments... more in two years than Obama in eight. When asked to produce this list he became explicably silent. The other poster looks forward to another four years of lies and chaos.
      When asked to come forward with cogent arguments backed by examples for this desire, again deafening silence. This proves to me (on a very small scale) that both sides mouth platitudes and truisms learned at the knee of power, whether it is the media, political agendas or religious persuaders. Yet there is very little concrete fact at the base of it. At bottom is the mob. And whether that mob is storming the Bastille or lynching an innocent man, facts don't matter.
      The devaluation of truth is number one on the agenda of those who would control the mob.
      Inculcating fear is the second. The substitution of the "other", the one to hate who is responsible for all woes is the third leg of a very stable tripod. Many, many apocalyptic novels portray the veneer of civilization to be as thin as the skin of an onion. When it comes off it detaches in one piece and in very short order. We are in a soma lullabye. An hallucination necessary for us to get by from day to day. I am no different. But perhaps we should awaken, at least for a moment, and take in the reality of our existential predicament... OTOH, Bette Midler once sang a great lyric "Why Botha?" It is sweet to dream the iOS dream. I do it every day. But I will awaken one day, and it will be upon me.

    2. The discussion as to what is appropriate or not on this forum is a valid one. For me 5% off topic content is plenty and sufficient, no matter what the subject, save hate spewing. @Michael's opinion at this point is unknown, but to say we operate at his grace and largesse might be overdoing it. Washington could have crowned himself king. Michael, being our fountainhead, could do the same, but I don't think he had that in mind when he fashioned audiob.us from the nanoparticles of the earth. And I don't believe it his wish to censor us if we behave with respect and civility.

  • @ZenEagle, very well spoken. Thank you.

  • edited May 4

    @LinearLineman

    Interesting perspective. Totally see your points and respect your passion and writing. You truly have the fire in the belly!

    As for Michael, he has said the following and his opinion does not seem “unknown”...

    “...lets try to avoid the political. There are lots of other forums where that's more appropriate; here, I think it just puts our peace at risk. Think of our forum as Christmas with the family - yes, we know some of us are on the other side of the Great Divide, but lets just not discuss it and enjoy the pudding instead.

    Thus: I'm going to start closing and/or deleting threads more often when they touch on this stuff. I'd take it as a kindness if we could all do our best to stick to the topic at hand: making awesome music with neat apps =)

    Cheers!
    Michael”

    ———

    Taken from the holy thread of the divine founder, blessed be his divine grace....
    audiumbus threadus etcus...

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/23228/psa-stay-on-topic-please-politics-unwelcome-lets-be-our-best-selves-here

  • You are on a forum about music production. Personally I make music to de-stress/relax etc.

    And you want to inject volatile US politics into the site? That gets people so mad they stop making sense half the time? That infects every aspect of life nowadays?

    Wrong place, take that **** somewhere else.

  • Katy Perry, John lennon, englebert humperdink, bob marley, cardi B, the carpenters, public enemy, Miley Cyrus, yoyo ma, Dolly Parton, tom petty, Stevie wonder... and the list goes on.

    Musicians/ people who make music aren't just one kind of person, who make music for one kind of reason.... if they were, all music would suck.

  • @dustgod, I don't see what you are referring to here. If you take away the abuse and madness in a conversation is there a problem?

  • @LinearLineman

    Thanks for posting what you did on my wall. Cheers

  • @LinearLineman said:
    Some conclusions (in no particular order....

    ...

    1. Only two posters came to the defense of divisiveness' mouthpiece. One pointed to his list of accomplishments... more in two years than Obama in eight. When asked to produce this list he became explicably silent.
      ....

    I see #3 is directed at me. My opinion is that Donald Trump has done a lot of good for the US as well as the world. I probably shouldn’t have even waded into these waters because my experience has been that when I do state this belief that he’s done positive things, someone inevitably wants “the list”. The times I’ve provided this in good faith have never actually resulted in any kind of meangful dialog around policy or actual outcomes. It seems to just generate abuse and adhominem attacks. So I’ve come to the conclusion that when people ask for data to back up my belief they’re really not looking for an answer, because the answer lies on numerous easily found websites (many of which strive to be as unbiased as possible). If someone really can’t find any accomplishments by our current administration but wants to have a genuine discussion, I welcome a PM.

    Finally, I mentioned earlier that I need to learn to not wade into these waters, but I always seem to. I think it’s a result of non-Americans, who know nothing beyond what they see in the media, mouthing off about how terrible the US is. It seems to be even more in fashion these days since people feel like they have a license to denigrate our country based on how many people dislike our president. I personally believe America is the greatest country on earth. We have a solid constitution which protects everyone’s rights, we provide more aid and help to the rest of the world than any other country, and we’re driven to bring peace and stability to the rest of the world. While we have our problems, I feel incredibly blessed to have been born here. I support others right to their opinion, but I also have a right to mine. But don’t ask me to do your research for you. If you can’t find a single positive thing to appreciate, you’re not really looking.

  • Answer: Nothing

  • @kobamoto said:
    Katy Perry, John lennon, englebert humperdink, bob marley, cardi B, the carpenters, public enemy, Miley Cyrus, yoyo ma, Dolly Parton, tom petty, Stevie wonder... and the list goes on.

    Musicians/ people who make music aren't just one kind of person, who make music for one kind of reason.... if they were, all music would suck.

    Absolutely.
    Interesting that the right only has "Hank" Williams Jr and Kid Rock.
    Man, THAT's a looooong ways down from Wagner.

  • edited May 4

    Deleted post

  • @JeffChasteen said:

    @kobamoto said:
    Katy Perry, John lennon, englebert humperdink, bob marley, cardi B, the carpenters, public enemy, Miley Cyrus, yoyo ma, Dolly Parton, tom petty, Stevie wonder... and the list goes on.

    Musicians/ people who make music aren't just one kind of person, who make music for one kind of reason.... if they were, all music would suck.

    Absolutely.
    Interesting that the right only has "Hank" Williams Jr and Kid Rock.
    Man, THAT's a looooong ways down from Wagner.

    Hey man, don’t forget The Nuge.
    :D

  • O> @robertreynolds said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    Some conclusions (in no particular order....

    ...

    1. Only two posters came to the defense of divisiveness' mouthpiece. One pointed to his list of accomplishments... more in two years than Obama in eight. When asked to produce this list he became explicably silent.
      ....

    I see #3 is directed at me. My opinion is that Donald Trump has done a lot of good for the US as well as the world. I probably shouldn’t have even waded into these waters because my experience has been that when I do state this belief that he’s done positive things, someone inevitably wants “the list”. The times I’ve provided this in good faith have never actually resulted in any kind of meangful dialog around policy or actual outcomes. It seems to just generate abuse and adhominem attacks. So I’ve come to the conclusion that when people ask for data to back up my belief they’re really not looking for an answer, because the answer lies on numerous easily found websites (many of which strive to be as unbiased as possible). If someone really can’t find any accomplishments by our current administration but wants to have a genuine discussion, I welcome a PM.

    Finally, I mentioned earlier that I need to learn to not wade into these waters, but I always seem to. I think it’s a result of non-Americans, who know nothing beyond what they see in the media, mouthing off about how terrible the US is. It seems to be even more in fashion these days since people feel like they have a license to denigrate our country based on how many people dislike our president. I personally believe America is the greatest country on earth. We have a solid constitution which protects everyone’s rights, we provide more aid and help to the rest of the world than any other country, and we’re driven to bring peace and stability to the rest of the world. While we have our problems, I feel incredibly blessed to have been born here. I support others right to their opinion, but I also have a right to mine. But don’t ask me to do your research for you. If you can’t find a single positive thing to appreciate, you’re not really looking.

    I think you really are quite delusional- a constitution which protects everyone’s rights. Tell that to Colin Kaeperknick, blacklisted out of his own profession thanks to Trump. Oh wait a minute does that count as one of his achievements? As for peace & stability to the rest of the world, c’mon reaaaallly

  • Still, @robertreynolds, I would like to see that list. This has been a pretty respectful thread so far. You are a thoughtful person, so I think folks would respect what you have to say and your right to say it.

  • @LinearLineman said:
    Still, @robertreynolds, I would like to see that list. This has been a pretty respectful thread so far. You are a thoughtful person, so I think folks would respect what you have to say and your right to say it.

    Exactly. It ain’t like this ‘long list’ is common knowledge. I can’t think of any real accomplishments for the good. I can only think of examples of bluster, hyperbole, and taking credit where credit is NOT due.

  • edited May 4

    Well, Trump did deficit spend, and any Keynesian would tell you that will help the economy. As it happens the US economy is doing better than any other Western economy - the UK and the EU are stuck in an austerity mindset which is crippling their economies.

    If that deficit spending had been directed at the bottom 80% of the population rather than the top 1% the effects would have been even more positive. The trouble with aiming your deficit splurge at the already rich is that they are far more likely to save their windfall rather than spend it in the economy. But still there have been some positive outcomes from the fiscal stance, even though it was mostly wasted on those who have plenty already.

    The trap, of course, is that having increased the deficit with tax cuts to the rich, the GOP will now claim there is no money left for anyone else (ie those who actually need it).

    Trump isn't Hitler IMO, he's more like Berlusconi: a corrupt oligarch rather than a fascist.

  • @richardyot said:
    Well, Trump did deficit spend, and any Keynesian would tell you that will help the economy. As it happens the US economy is doing better than any other Western economy - the UK and the EU are stuck in an austerity mindset which is crippling their economies.

    If that deficit spending had been directed at the bottom 80% of the population rather than the top 1% the effects would have been even more positive. The trouble with aiming your deficit splurge at the already rich is that they are far more likely to save their windfall rather than spend it in the economy. But still there have been some positive outcomes from the fiscal stance, even though it was mostly wasted on those who have plenty already.

    The trap, of course, is that having increased the deficit with tax cuts to the rich, the GOP will now claim there is no money left for anyone else (ie those who actually need it).

    Trump isn't Hitler IMO, he's more like Berlusconi: a corrupt oligarch rather than a fascist.

    Exactly, Richard.
    I was keeping up with Italian news when Berlusconi was president. I vividly remember saying, "Those poor people; that's like having fucking Donald Trump as the country's leader"
    Little did I know how stupid and/or craven some of my fellow Americans could be.

  • edited May 4

    @richardyot said:
    Well, Trump did deficit spend, and any Keynesian would tell you that will help the economy. As it happens the US economy is doing better than any other Western economy - the UK and the EU are stuck in an austerity mindset which is crippling their economies.

    If that deficit spending had been directed at the bottom 80% of the population rather than the top 1% the effects would have been even more positive. The trouble with aiming your deficit splurge at the already rich is that they are far more likely to save their windfall rather than spend it in the economy. But still there have been some positive outcomes from the fiscal stance, even though it was mostly wasted on those who have plenty already.

    The trap, of course, is that having increased the deficit with tax cuts to the rich, the GOP will now claim there is no money left for anyone else (ie those who actually need it).

    Trump isn't Hitler IMO, he's more like Berlusconi: a corrupt oligarch rather than a fascist.

    That’s one single example, it is open to interpretation, but does nothing to bolster your opening statement comparing current and previous Presidents.
    Previous President came into office in the worst of Economic conditions. He turned the economy around and left office with a strong economy. Current President is just riding that momentum, so if this is his one major example of an accomplishment, then you have definitely overstated your position.

    But current President has a big uh-brain, so hopefully he can actually accomplish something, other than running his yap, constantly lying, and inflaming the general public.

  • My personal takeaway on politics in general, is that democrats, putting them all in a box, so to speak, tend to be sleazy and immoral on the surface, however, they have a tendency of telling us ahead of time what they want to/ are going to do. On the other hand, republicans have a tendency to put on a good front (at least to the right leaning public), however, on the inside, IMO, most of them are evil and rotten to the very core, if you just do some digging on them. So, on the surface, I only see two very poor choices given to us. Both parties will fight very hard to keep third party candidates as irrelevant, and in affective as they possibly can, attempting to preempt any third choice from ever becoming a serious contender. Things will only begin to change, when our values begin to change, and we become aware of what the real truth is.

  • Maybe that the ramifications of this has finally caught up to us here in the USA.

  • @CracklePot said:

    @richardyot said:
    Well, Trump did deficit spend, and any Keynesian would tell you that will help the economy. As it happens the US economy is doing better than any other Western economy - the UK and the EU are stuck in an austerity mindset which is crippling their economies.

    If that deficit spending had been directed at the bottom 80% of the population rather than the top 1% the effects would have been even more positive. The trouble with aiming your deficit splurge at the already rich is that they are far more likely to save their windfall rather than spend it in the economy. But still there have been some positive outcomes from the fiscal stance, even though it was mostly wasted on those who have plenty already.

    The trap, of course, is that having increased the deficit with tax cuts to the rich, the GOP will now claim there is no money left for anyone else (ie those who actually need it).

    Trump isn't Hitler IMO, he's more like Berlusconi: a corrupt oligarch rather than a fascist.

    That’s one single example, it is open to interpretation, but does nothing to bolster your opening statement comparing current and previous Presidents.
    Previous President came into office in the worst of Economic conditions. He turned the economy around and left office with a strong economy. Current President is just riding that momentum, so if this is his one major example of an accomplishment, then you have definitely overstated your position.

    But current President has a big uh-brain, so hopefully he can actually accomplish something, other than running his yap, constantly lying, and inflaming the general public.

    Oh I wasn’t the one who made the original claim about achievements, I was just throwing some nuance into the conversation o:)

  • @richardyot
    Right you are. My apologies. o:)

  • @richardyot said:

    @CracklePot said:

    @richardyot said:
    Well, Trump did deficit spend, and any Keynesian would tell you that will help the economy. As it happens the US economy is doing better than any other Western economy - the UK and the EU are stuck in an austerity mindset which is crippling their economies.

    If that deficit spending had been directed at the bottom 80% of the population rather than the top 1% the effects would have been even more positive. The trouble with aiming your deficit splurge at the already rich is that they are far more likely to save their windfall rather than spend it in the economy. But still there have been some positive outcomes from the fiscal stance, even though it was mostly wasted on those who have plenty already.

    The trap, of course, is that having increased the deficit with tax cuts to the rich, the GOP will now claim there is no money left for anyone else (ie those who actually need it).

    Trump isn't Hitler IMO, he's more like Berlusconi: a corrupt oligarch rather than a fascist.

    That’s one single example, it is open to interpretation, but does nothing to bolster your opening statement comparing current and previous Presidents.
    Previous President came into office in the worst of Economic conditions. He turned the economy around and left office with a strong economy. Current President is just riding that momentum, so if this is his one major example of an accomplishment, then you have definitely overstated your position.

    But current President has a big uh-brain, so hopefully he can actually accomplish something, other than running his yap, constantly lying, and inflaming the general public.

    Oh I wasn’t the one who made the original claim about achievements, I was just throwing some nuance into the conversation o:)

    Nuance! Get outta here with that! Lol

  • Maybe that the ramifications of this has finally caught up to us here in the USA regarding our current situation.

    “One of the things that was taken out of the curriculum was civics. Civics was a class that used to be required before you could graduate from high school. You were taught what was in the U.S. Constitution. And after all the student rebellions in the '60s, civics was banished from the student curriculum and was replaced by something called social studies. Here we live in a country that has a fabulous constitution and all these guarantees, a contract between the citizens and the government - nobody knows what's in it. It's one of the best kept secrets. And so, if you don't know what your rights are, how can you stand up for them? And furthermore, if you don't know what is in that document, how can you care if someone is shredding it?”

    Taken from a 1991 interview for Spin magazine.
    http://www.oocities.org/zerttrez/interviews/90-93/91spin.html

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