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FAC Maxima latency within Cubasis and other AU hosts (latency compensation on iOS hosts)

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Comments

  • _ki_ki
    edited December 2018

    @j_liljedahl Thanks for the extensive explanation 👍🏻

  • what is ladonna mastering?

  • edited April 2019

    @McDtracy said:
    NS2 maybe? Where's @_ki when you need him to measure something.

    Correct :) NS2 has very good latency compensation for plugins (and you can manually set latency compensation for MIDI out) .. Matt invested a lot time to precise sample accurate synchronisation and latency compensation..

    . If plugins adds additional latency to system, it even shows warning in plugin view, to keep user informed

  • @dendy said:

    @McDtracy said:
    NS2 maybe? Where's @_ki when you need him to measure something.

    Correct :) NS2 has very good latency compensation for plugins (and you can manually set latency compensation for MIDI out) .. Matt invested a lot time to precise sample accurate synchronisation and latency compensation..

    . If plugins adds additional latency to system, it even shows warning in plugin view, to keep user informed

    I like that warning.

  • BTW: Plugin latency compensation for AUs now work in Auria Pro 2.23 beta, PLC for native plugins was already supported.

  • edited August 2022

    Sorry to resurrect such an old (but very informative) thread, but are we still in the same situation with Cubasis in 2022?

    I can't add a limiter to my drum bus, because Cubasis doesn't have 'Plugin Delay Compensation'? It therefore ignores the 'latency figure' reported by the limiter plugin, leaving my drums out-of-sync with the rest of the track?!

    (This certainly seems to still be the case, based on my experience last night, doing exactly this)

    @Lars is this correct? Do you know of any plans to introduce PDC any time soon? I see it's been 'in the pipeline' for a number of years now, but I couldn't quite believe such a vital feature was still missing from a DAW as comprehensive and fully-featured as Cubasis.

  • Maxima still adds latency in Cubasis 3, noticeable mainly on rhythm tracks, as do all limiting-type efx. Lowering the plugin’s “mix” helps a bit.

  • edited August 2022

    @musikeer said:
    Maxima still adds latency in Cubasis 3, noticeable mainly on rhythm tracks, as do all limiting-type efx. Lowering the plugin’s “mix” helps a bit.

    I appreciate all limiters will introduce latency into the signal chain, I'm just confused as to why Cubasis doesn't delay everything else, to keep it all in sync, via Plugin Delay Compensation, which seems to be a fairly standard feature on most DAWs.

    It's a feature I just assumed was there by default and was very surprised to discover it isn't (as a result of the limiter example).

    I'm now beginning to wonder how much certain instrument parts (with lots of effects) are starting to slip 'out of time' with the rest of the track due to the cumulative latency of each effect plugin? I guess if it's not really audibly noticeable then it's not a big issue, but it still bugs me to know the tracks aren't as 'tight' timing-wise as other DAWs...

  • edited August 2022

    nothing is ideally perfect, and this is a beautyful!
    it is good to know and keep focus on everything together in now

    personally for live playing on ipad with sampled cutted drums, where I play also on synth keys, I set minimal latency, mostly 128 buffer, and sure I can put on drums a lot of proccesing but if latency will cumulate then feeling gone,
    so I try to avoid in preproduction time latenced effets, and often in post production I realize that I like such dry sound better than super phat, but different from oryginal. but there is no formula of workflow ;)

  • edited August 2022

    @szczyp said:
    nothing is ideally perfect, and this is a beautyful!
    it is good to know and keep focus on everything together in now

    personally for live playing on ipad with sampled cutted drums, where I play also on synth keys, I set minimal latency, mostly 128 buffer, and sure I can put on drums a lot of proccesing but if latency will cumulate then feeling gone,
    so I try to avoid in preproduction time latenced effets, and often in post production I realize that I like such dry sound better than super phat, but different from oryginal. but there is no formula of workflow ;)

    I know what you mean, it is nice to have a low-latency setup, especially when playing instruments in 'live'. The problem for me is that regardless of when you add a limiter (at the start of composition or right at the end during mastering) the audio becomes so much out of sync it is impossible to 'tune' the limiter settings to suit the track - e.g. my 'off-beat' bass becomes an 'on-beat' bass!!

    At least with PDC, I'd be able to hear exactly what the limiter is doing in relation to the rest of the tracks, (even if 'live' keyboard playing was no longer possible) whereas at the minute it really isn't feasible to put a limiter on anything but the master bus - the resultant audio is just too much out of sync, to work with.

  • What is the best current workaround?

  • The latency when using Barricade's limiter settings seem to not affect the timing too drastically. Just an observation...

  • edited August 2022

    @musikeer said:
    The latency when using Barricade's limiter settings seem to not affect the timing too drastically. Just an observation...

    Good to know thanks, I do own Barricade, but have only tried Maxima and Pro-L so far (and to be fair, Pro-L in 'transparent' mode, without True Peak Limiting' is almost unnoticeable, but now know I know the delay is there, and not being compensated for by the DAW, I'm reluctant to add any limiting to anything other than the master bus!

  • For postprocesing (not live) mixing use DAW with delay compensation for effect you use.

  • edited August 2022

    @dokwok2 said:
    What is the best current workaround?

    I print/freeze the track and then manually reposition it to eliminate the latency.

    Frankly, I find the whole latency handling in Cubasis to be very complicated, difficult to use and unreliable. When I calibrate for audio recordings it often seems to be quite wrong, and I wind up having to move the tracks around to eliminate the latency. Its very frustrating.
    It'd be so lovely if it just worked and was simple!

  • @mysterycat said:

    @dokwok2 said:
    What is the best current workaround?

    I print/freeze the track and then manually reposition it to eliminate the latency.

    Frankly, I find the whole latency handling in Cubasis to be very complicated, difficult to use and unreliable. When I calibrate for audio recordings it often seems to be quite wrong, and I wind up having to move the tracks around to eliminate the latency. Its very frustrating.
    It'd be so lovely if it just worked and was simple!

    Trouble is, in my case, it's a limiter on a drum bus (i.e. a group track) which can't be frozen.

    It's a bit 'resource-wasteful' but I was wondering whether placing the same limiter on every track in my project would be a potential workaround...? I do tend to group everything into drums, bass, synths & vocals busses already, so it might actually only be 4 limiters I need to line everything back up? (Thinking aloud a bit here!)

  • @szczyp said:
    For postprocesing (not live) mixing use DAW with delay compensation for effect you use.

    This is the problem - Cubasis doesn't have this (arguably essential) 'Plugin Delay Compensation' functionality

  • Trouble is, in my case, it's a limiter on a drum bus (i.e. a group track) which can't be frozen.

    ah, in that case, I'd record it in Neon, then put the recording in its own track and reposition as needed.

  • @musikeer said:
    The latency when using Barricade's limiter settings seem to not affect the timing too drastically. Just an observation...

    Just tried Barricade and I can confirm it does appear to be the least noticeable of the three limiters I've tried (in terms of latency introduced). With that in mind, I've placed four instances of Barricade on my drum, bass, synth & vox busses, and everything does seem to be a lot more 'in sync'.

    Thanks for the suggestions everyone, I'm quite happy with this 'workaround' for now, until we (hopefully) see proper PDC in Cubasis...

  • @dokwok2 said:
    What is the best current workaround?

    Use a DAW that does latency compensation correctly and as expected? :)

  • @j_liljedahl said:
    Use a DAW that does latency compensation correctly and as expected? :)

    Are there any iOS DAWs that do this to your satisfaction? It's ok if the answer is "My own AUM." In that case, I will process the audio in AUM and import the results back into Cubasis for arrangement.

  • @dokwok2 said:

    @j_liljedahl said:
    Use a DAW that does latency compensation correctly and as expected? :)

    Are there any iOS DAWs that do this to your satisfaction? It's ok if the answer is "My own AUM." In that case, I will process the audio in AUM and import the results back into Cubasis for arrangement.

    Yes, AUM does it, and I'm sure many others do as well (I haven't checked). I'd say that on the desktop, a DAW that didn't do plugin delay compensation wouldn't be accepted.

  • Does AUM do this automatically or is there a setting somewhere? Thanks

  • @dokwok2 said:

    @j_liljedahl said:
    Use a DAW that does latency compensation correctly and as expected? :)

    Are there any iOS DAWs that do this to your satisfaction? It's ok if the answer is "My own AUM." In that case, I will process the audio in AUM and import the results back into Cubasis for arrangement.

    I've been informed in another thread that Roland Zenbeats has PDC. Trouble is, it has no sidechaining, which I'm not sure I can manage without!

  • edited August 2022

    @Zerozerozero said:
    Does AUM do this automatically or is there a setting somewhere? Thanks

    It does so automatically, assuming plugins do report their latency correctly, which most/all of them do.
    You can check the current latency compensation, and which plugins are reporting latency, in the Node Stats view (tap the DSP% and then Node Statistics).

  • @j_liljedahl said:

    @Zerozerozero said:
    Does AUM do this automatically or is there a setting somewhere? Thanks

    It does so automatically, assuming plugins do report their latency correctly, which most/all of them do.
    You can check the current latency compensation, and which plugins are reporting latency, in the Node Stats view (tap the DSP% and then Node Statistics).

    Excellent news! Thanks for your reply (and all of the amazing recent updates!) 👍🏻

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