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MIDI AU CC generators - what's available?

There's been a lot of action recently in the realm of MIDI AUs, but primarily with note generators.
What's the current state of MIDI CC generators? I'm aware of Rozeta LFO (I use at least 2 instances in everything I do these days), Perforator, FAC Envolver and...? What else am I missing?

I love Rozeta LFO, but I would love a super LFO, or, even better, the equivalent of a complex function generator in a modular (E.g. Make Noise Maths, Befaco Rampage). Something that allows you to define a complex AR envelope (logarithmic to exponential) and trigger that with an input (note or other CC) and have a controllable "Cycle" switch that turns that AR envelope into an LFO. Obviously you can't do audio-rate with MIDI, but it should be able to go fast, but, more importantly, it needs to go really slow - like several minutes per cycle slow.

Comments

  • Perhaps you´ll get something going with the MidiBridge in Moog M15? It has 6 slots for sending out CC 16-21.
    And if you need slower rates than what M15 provides, you could feed an external signal in through the audio bridge.

  • Yes there definely a market for a more complex midi cc generator. I use Rozeta LFO a lot. Some sort of midi cc Studio app maybe. Or something along the lines of what Bitwig offers with modulation modules. I know @brambos is working on something new that is midi in nature who knows !

  • Sugar bytes thesys has several slots that can send cc, all with different lengths. It’s AU now
    Steppolyarpunit can send stepped cc values

    Outside of AU there’s a ton of them that will still work

    Or just use ApeMatrix

  • @aplourde said:

    I love Rozeta LFO, but I would love a super LFO, or, even better, the equivalent of a complex function generator in a modular (E.g. Make Noise Maths, Befaco Rampage). Something that allows you to define a complex AR envelope (logarithmic to exponential) and trigger that with an input (note or other CC) and have a controllable "Cycle" switch that turns that AR envelope into an LFO. Obviously you can't do audio-rate with MIDI, but it should be able to go fast, but, more importantly, it needs to go really slow - like several minutes per cycle slow.

    Totally with you on Maths & Rampage. My rack would feel naked without those two. And funnily enough, I ended up purchasing the Befaco Rampage after exploring it's virtual twin in VCV.

    I like the way iOS is developing as a virtual modular environment and I think developers like @brambos is pushing the envelope here but we a long way from iOS being a mobile version of VCV or Softube Modular. I think ApeMatrix is closer to facilitating modulararity than AUM or Audiobus but it needs instrument developers to start making virtual patch bay ports available in their products (much like the Moog Mother-32). That would definitely spice things up. :)

  • @MonkeyDrummer said:
    .....
    Outside of AU there’s a ton of them that will still work
    ...

    That‘s what I think too, f.e. Aphelian with it‘s moons, it can build wonderfull lfo, the largest 36 beats long - for several minutes You have to slow down the tempo (only in Aphelian)....

  • Hold that thought.

  • @brambos said:
    Hold that thought.

    These occasional teases get all sorts of ideas going.

  • @Satie said:

    @MonkeyDrummer said:
    .....
    Outside of AU there’s a ton of them that will still work
    ...

    That‘s what I think too, f.e. Aphelian with it‘s moons, it can build wonderfull lfo, the largest 36 beats long - for several minutes You have to slow down the tempo (only in Aphelian)....

    Love Aphelian moons!

  • @MonkeyDrummer said:
    Sugar bytes thesys has several slots that can send cc, all with different lengths. It’s AU now
    Steppolyarpunit can send stepped cc values

    Outside of AU there’s a ton of them that will still work

    Or just use ApeMatrix

    You know, I’ve never really looked at Thesys. But does it just send stepped values?

    I should have been clearer, what I’m interested is the first C of CC; I want continuous controller messages, not steps. For steps, it’s possible to generate notes and convert them to discrete CC messages. This is why I want really long LFOs! But I’m keen on CC envelopes too....

  • @brambos said:
    Hold that thought.

    And that is exactly what I was hoping to hear!

    Consider the thought held....

  • @aplourde said:

    @MonkeyDrummer said:
    Sugar bytes thesys has several slots that can send cc, all with different lengths. It’s AU now
    Steppolyarpunit can send stepped cc values

    Outside of AU there’s a ton of them that will still work

    Or just use ApeMatrix

    You know, I’ve never really looked at Thesys. But does it just send stepped values?

    I should have been clearer, what I’m interested is the first C of CC; I want continuous t controller messages, not steps. For steps, it’s possible to generate notes and convert them to discrete CC messages. This is why I want really long LFOs! But I’m keen on CC envelopes too....

    Yea, I’ve begged bram to add like a /2 or /4 option/switch to roz LFO for really long lfo’s but he’s not doing any more dev on roz. I need like 10 minute LFO cycles... seriously...

  • edited March 2019

    Have you looked at mfxPan at all?
    Seems to do a lot of what you seek, but I am not sure it will work.

    I assume it is sending Pan on CC#10, and this could potentially be routed to any CC destination. I do not have this app, so ask around or try the dev for more info. It may not work that way, the app description isn’t specific.

    But if this works like how I assume, it would be pretty killer.

  • Patterning 2 is a brilliant CC Sequencer. It's obviously not an AU but I often use Patterning to modulate CC's without sequencing any drums at all. You can add as many CC layers as you need, and the Patterning UI is fantastic for maintaing a bird's eye view of your modulations whilst still easily having the ability to drill into to detail.

    It seems unlikely that it will ever be turned into an AUv3 (going by comments from the dev both here and and on the Patterning forum), but we can still hope. :)

  • @MonkeyDrummer said:

    @aplourde said:

    @MonkeyDrummer said:
    Sugar bytes thesys has several slots that can send cc, all with different lengths. It’s AU now
    Steppolyarpunit can send stepped cc values

    Outside of AU there’s a ton of them that will still work

    Or just use ApeMatrix

    You know, I’ve never really looked at Thesys. But does it just send stepped values?

    I should have been clearer, what I’m interested is the first C of CC; I want continuous t controller messages, not steps. For steps, it’s possible to generate notes and convert them to discrete CC messages. This is why I want really long LFOs! But I’m keen on CC envelopes too....

    Yea, I’ve begged bram to add like a /2 or /4 option/switch to roz LFO for really long lfo’s but he’s not doing any more dev on roz. I need like 10 minute LFO cycles... seriously...

    Wow! 10 mins is more than I personally need, but 0.01Hz (1.6666 mins) is a bit short of what I would like.

    However, the biggest limitation, for me, is that the Tempo Synced LFOs are limited to 8 measures. I constantly want at least 16, often 32, measures synced.

    Of course I would love phase adjustments, arbitrary waveforms, triggers and resets, etc.

    Very curious to see what @brambos is cooking up....

  • @CracklePot said:
    Have you looked at mfxPan at all?
    Seems to do a lot of what you seek, but I am not sure it will work.

    I assume it is sending Pan on CC#10, and this could potentially be routed to any CC destination. I do not have this app, so ask around or try the dev for more info. It may not work that way, the app description isn’t specific.

    But if this works like how I assume, it would be pretty killer.

    Interesting! I didn't pay too much attention to mfxPan - I just assumed it was an LFO fixed to CC10, but I see that it has trigger conditions and can scale the output based on the trigger value. Need to check on the max time of the "pan", but this could be fun....

  • @jonmoore said:
    Patterning 2 is a brilliant CC Sequencer. It's obviously not an AU but I often use Patterning to modulate CC's without sequencing any drums at all. You can add as many CC layers as you need, and the Patterning UI is fantastic for maintaing a bird's eye view of your modulations whilst still easily having the ability to drill into to detail.

    It seems unlikely that it will ever be turned into an AUv3 (going by comments from the dev both here and and on the Patterning forum), but we can still hope. :)

    Love Patterning 2 (I do wish the Audiobus panel / Audiobus Remote pattern bug gets fixed....), but the CC's are stepped values; I'm really looking for continuously varying controls for subtle (or not) adjustments to a sound over long periods of time. As mentioned above, step values can also be had by note sequencing and converting the notes to CC events.

  • @aplourde I hear you. TBH, the only continuous modulation capability I'm totally happy with on iOS is in Cubasis, as it's full floating point and not limited to MIDI CC'S 128 stepped values. But editting host automation in Cubasis is a PITA!

    @CracklePot Good thinking ref mfxPan, I only picked up mfxConvert from that bunch but it works as a perfect partner to mfxPan to convert cc-10 to whatever you require. Worth 2.99. :)

  • @jonmoore said:
    @aplourde I hear you. TBH, the only continuous modulation capability I'm totally happy with on iOS is in Cubasis, as it's full floating point and not limited to MIDI CC'S 128 stepped values. But editting host automation in Cubasis is a PITA!

    @CracklePot Good thinking ref mfxPan, I only picked up mfxConvert from that bunch but it works as a perfect partner to mfxPan to convert cc-10 to whatever you require. Worth 2.99. :)

    Sweet!
    Thanks for the info.
    Gonna grab mfxPan today.
    :)

  • @CracklePot the only downside with that mfx range is that now I have 2 plugs in the range, it's tempting me to complete my bundle for another $6!

  • @jonmoore said:
    @CracklePot the only downside with that mfx range is that now I have 2 plugs in the range, it's tempting me to complete my bundle for another $6!

    Since you picked it up, can I ask what the min and max cycle time is? The pre delay max time?
    Does it slowly ramp into the pan with pre-delay or does it just kick in?
    Also, is it a sine wave only or are there other pan shapes?
    Thanks!

  • @aplourde It only goes up to 8000 ms. But it has a lot of nifty triggering such as per note velocity thresholds (or aftertouch) and shifted/parallel pans for each note. If you own mfxConvert - another 2.99, you can convert MIDI pan info to other MIDI data such as different CC values. mfxConvert has a learn input, so it can automatically sense the incoming data format to be converted.

    I don't really see it as a pseudo LFO, more something for smart triggered cyclic signals. Rather than building the cycles around wave shapes it offers 10 different L - C - R cycles, so you get polar, bipolar and pseudo sawtooth from center to left and/or right. It is strictly a MIDI panning utility on it's own, mfxConvert is required to convert to a different data type.

  • @aplourde
    Predelay. 0 -2000 ms.
    Cycle time 20-8000 ms.
    Not sure about the onset of the predelay. I will get back to you.

    Like @jonmoore said previously, the waveform model doesn’t quite fit. It has those pseudo waveforms, plus they can react to velocity, aftertouch, or a control input. Also, you can trigger multiple cycles that will interact into a who-knows type of wave.

    In AUM I was able to feed this into a synth filter cutoff directly, just by setting the AU parameter to pick up CC#10. I didn’t need mfxConvert, but that app is really helpful sometimes. It is worth getting if you do a lot of Midi experimentation.

  • Seems like StreamByter could be an AU solution for this. Divide down a midi clock input as slow as you want to go and use that to step through a LUT for the CC output. The LUT would give you arbitrary waveforms. Triggers/resets could be added as well.

  • @Rebus_Knebus said:
    Seems like StreamByter could be an AU solution for this. Divide down a midi clock input as slow as you want to go and use that to step through a LUT for the CC output. The LUT would give you arbitrary waveforms. Triggers/resets could be added as well.

    StreamByter definitely offers the most control but its a technical app that can be difficult for those without a programmatic way of thinking. Incidentally, StreamByter and the mfx series of apps are both by the same developer, Audeonic.

  • edited March 2019

    @jonmoore @CracklePot Thanks! The triggering does make it more like a cycling function generator, which is very cool. Also the Parallel Pans feature could be fun. Assuming it runs only for the duration of the note?

    I have mfxConvert, used it for converting notes to PC for controlling Fugue Machine - just wish it had a wildcard instead of having to set up each note, etc. Or at least defaulted to the equivalent value when learning (e.g. learn note 32, have CC default to 32 instead of going back to 0 each time) /digression.

    @jonmoore said:

    @Rebus_Knebus said:
    Seems like StreamByter could be an AU solution for this. Divide down a midi clock input as slow as you want to go and use that to step through a LUT for the CC output. The LUT would give you arbitrary waveforms. Triggers/resets could be added as well.

    StreamByter definitely offers the most control but its a technical app that can be difficult for those without a programmatic way of thinking. Incidentally, StreamByter and the mfx series of apps are both by the same developer, Audeonic.

    Yeah, I barely have enough time to make music, let alone try to program my own tools!
    Even trying to find the time to learn the full capabilities of the apps I have is challenging, hence why I'm very conservative in what I buy; the prices are so cheap that I don't care about losing money, but I hate spending time learning something only to realize that it doesn't really do what I wanted it to do!

    That said, the scripting language in Mozaic seems like it could be simple enough to pick up fairly quickly. I'm definitely in favor of having a UI for quick parameter changes....

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