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Do iOS synths sound 'duller' compared to desktop VTS's?

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Comments

  • Moog Model 15 and Moog Model d sound just as good Volt is grand Aparillo is the shit

  • edited December 2018

    @AudioGus said:
    I say sample that sweet sweet VST goodness for BM3 and NS2. Yum!

    Yeah.. I'm planning to make some nice multisample patches..

    .....to use with Caustic :)

    I'll probably do that with some nice iOS synths as well..

  • edited December 2018

    @brambos said:
    Absolutely. The CPU, being confined to such a narrow, cramped space, has much less space for good acoustics. Obviously it’s going to sound duller!

    Depends on the sounds. Some sounds, like a lot of short percussive sounds, can be fairly simple and super effective. Consider many classic sounds we still use as samples and the relatively weak brain power of the old drum machines that made them. For example on iOS, all the Ruismaker drum plugins...in my humble opinion, no reason not to use those in a final production. I have a lot of desktop drum synths too, Tremor, Geist being my go tos. I'd use the Ruismakers next to them any day .* :wink:

    *And yes I recognize some of these are sample based.

    I think we should also remember that many listeners are not analog synth connoisseurs. I was just jamming with some friends at a party on my ipad and someone who had been kinda dancing, and watching me mess with the synth settings..She was like..."Oh I like that one, that's so pretty!" It was the init patch lol. Maybe I'd pulled the filter freq down, hhaha. But I shouldn't laugh. Some songs, some parts, I just need a fairly unaffected tri wave with a little tremolo.

    I've found some of the limitations of the iOS platform have really helped me focus in that way. "What do I really need here? What does the song need? and won't kill this CPU?" Makes me focus on the part sometimes, the nuances of the performance instead of twiddling knobs and effects for hours.

  • Plenty of iOS only apps got ported to vst at much higher prices and they are highly rated. Nave, DRC, PPG synths are some examples.

  • Lots of interesting points. Many variables involved, most of which have been mentioned.

    As mentioned here a great sound designer will often make any apps sing to the best of their ability.

    I’m still a firm believer though that once a platform has sound sources that are good enough, it’s the creative song writing that matters more. I will always be the weakest link in my music whatever platform I use ;)

  • @BlueGreenSpiral said:
    Plenty of iOS only apps got ported to vst at much higher prices and they are highly rated. Nave, DRC, PPG synths are some examples.

    True, but some are a bit limited on iOS, especially the PPG apps as AUv3 and also standalone missing some features.
    I think Nave is the same....is there an AUv3 for this?
    DRC cheap for desktop as well (not as iOS indeed) but you can run 50+ instances there....
    It‘s all relative.

  • @SlowwFloww said:

    @AudioGus said:
    I say sample that sweet sweet VST goodness for BM3 and NS2. Yum!

    Yeah.. I'm planning to make some nice multisample patches..

    .....to use with Caustic :)

    I'll probably do that with some nice iOS synths as well..

    What do you use to output the multisamples? I did a few tests with Renoise on PC outputting vst multi-samples, very noice!

  • edited December 2018

    @AudioGus said:
    I say sample that sweet sweet VST goodness for BM3 and NS2. Yum!

    yeah ! but why just vsts when we can sample analog synths ?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yg82kkk8d8k5spq/dao5x.wav?dl=0

    @Cib nice Dune 3 demo, that multipoimt envelopes are sweet :)

    but you also mentioned one inportant thing - good patch designer is missing for lot ios synths ! With great patch designer even average synth can shine ! Just very small amount of users is able to tweak synths to maximum of their posibilities and factory patches not always uncovers full potential of synth...

  • edited December 2018

    @dendy said:

    @AudioGus said:
    I say sample that sweet sweet VST goodness for BM3 and NS2. Yum!

    yeah ! but why just vsts when we can sample analog synths ?

    Whoot! If you pay the frieght I will send you my adress.

  • To compare the sound of the different synths, one needs to render the same material to file then listen to all the rendered material “blind” on the same playback device...otherwise you may end up testing the playback characteristics of the device rather than the qualities of the audio created by the synths.

  • edited December 2018

    @dendy said:

    @AudioGus said:
    I say sample that sweet sweet VST goodness for BM3 and NS2. Yum!

    yeah ! but why just vsts when we can sample analog synths ?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yg82kkk8d8k5spq/dao5x.wav?dl=0

    @Cib nice Dune 3 demo, that multipoimt envelopes are sweet :)

    but you also mentioned one inportant thing - good patch designer is missing for lot ios synths ! With great patch designer even average synth can shine ! Just very small amount of users is able to tweak synths to maximum of their posibilities and factory patches not always uncovers full potential of synth...

    That‘s true of course (but Dune 3 is really superb....it just gone to my top, like it even more than P900 which still is better in some areas).
    It also depends on what you like. Some synths presets seems to focus to a genre while they can do so much more.
    F.e. i like to do weird alien forests and cinematic FX with Dune 3 :)
    https://m.soundcloud.com/user-790535032/dune-3-fm-jungle
    https://m.soundcloud.com/user-790535032/dune-3-fx-demo-one-layer
    However, my alltime favorite synth demo is still from Dune 2 (from the same sound designer):

    or something about Repro...

  • nice examples.. i'm pretty curious what you will do with Obsidian :-)

  • edited December 2018

    @dendy said:
    nice examples.. i'm pretty curious what you will do with Obsidian :-)

    Well, first waiting a few months for the iPhone version :)
    But it‘s always interesting to try to rebuild presets, even with totally different synths.
    I love P900 f.e. also for these tones:
    https://m.soundcloud.com/user-790535032/p900-guitar-resonance
    Or this made with custom made presets and only intern FX (was ment as preset demos not „real“ tracks)
    https://m.soundcloud.com/user-790535032/p900-strange-worlds
    https://m.soundcloud.com/user-790535032/p900-analogy
    Lol, sorry enough now. I just love all synths!!

  • iOS is what really got me working with synths despite having hardware and a bunch on the desktop I always had trouble with the workflow and getting the sound I wanted, so was mostly a guitar guy. iOS opened up the world of synths for me in a way I that was never tangible to me before. The best ones easily equal any desktop synth.

  • edited December 2018

    @Cib said:
    Lol, sorry enough now. I just love all synths!!

    no no, never stop it :-) Looks lile we share same passion, on my soundcloud i have more synth demos than real music :-)))

  • @kv331audio_bulent said:

    The only difference between the platforms would be caused by compilers, because we run identical code on windows, macos and ios (and hopefuly android next year!)

    Interesting. Care to elaborate on the nature of compilers for us dolts that don't have a solid grasp on coding and app dev ..etc?

  • @AudioGus said:

    @SlowwFloww said:

    @AudioGus said:

    What do you use to output the multisamples? I did a few tests with Renoise on PC outputting vst multi-samples, very noice!

    I create a multisample preset first in the PCM Synth in Caustic.. make the keyrange setting there for 3 blank samples per octave.

    Then I use Ableton Live... (but, the choice of D.A.W really doesn’t matter). I make a midi clip playing the same 3 notes every octave and render the audio and chop it up in Caustic.
    For every new VSt preset I play the same midi clip and render the audio of the same notes per octave.

    Then I change the blank samples in Caustic for my new samplechops and Caustic plays the multisample patch...

  • @dendy said:

    @Cib said:
    Lol, sorry enough now. I just love all synths!!

    no no, never stop it :-) Looks lile we share same passion, on my soundcloud i have more synth demos than real music :-)))

    ;) Yeah, i listened to your stuff, you got that 90´s trance, psy trance feeling on point. I like your NS2 outcome as well a lot.

  • edited December 2018

    @BitterGums said:

    @kv331audio_bulent said:

    The only difference between the platforms would be caused by compilers, because we run identical code on windows, macos and ios (and hopefuly android next year!)

    Interesting. Care to elaborate on the nature of compilers for us dolts that don't have a solid grasp on coding and app dev ..etc?

    That's just an abreviation - audio processing is about getting a smooth result from a source that isn't smooth at all by nature. It's a sequence of individual numbers while the original was the continous change of an electrical current (microphone, guitar pickup, analog synth output).

    The math rules are rather complex and put a very high load on (regular) CPUs, which were designed to process business numbers and letters in the 1st place. Even more important: time doesn't matter to calculate a balance or statistic or print a picture.
    If you want digital audio to happen 'immediately' (what we're used to today), there's little time for highly demanding calculations.

    There are several approaches to solve this:
    you can code by yourself in a very smart way (difficult)
    the compiler (a program that translates written instructions into machine code) has special routines for these tasks, often called DSP extensions
    you use dedicated DSP processors, chips that are specialized on the math required
    (that was the original approach in Pro Tools, many hardware synths and fx units - and is currently the core feature of UAD devices)

    Since each type of CPU/DSP features a different implementation of math rules, there can be differences in the output results - from subtle to tremendous.
    As all these approaches aren't exclusive and can be mixed there's quite some variation.

  • Maybe as a general rule VST’s sound a bit better overall BUT, There are some iOS synths that sound better than a lot of VST’s. the ability for ios is there to compete but its up to the devs to program to compete. Zeeon, DRc, Animoog, Odyssei etc sound quite strong compared to the Vst’s i own.

  • @sysexual said:
    Maybe as a general rule VST’s sound a bit better overall BUT, There are some iOS synths that sound better than a lot of VST’s. the ability for ios is there to compete but its up to the devs to program to compete. Zeeon, DRc, Animoog, Odyssei etc sound quite strong compared to the Vst’s i own.

    I mainly agree with this. If i had a Top 5 synths to choose to port to mac it would be right now Zeeon, Model D, Animoog, Mitosynth and Obsidian. It even hurts me to not have them on my mac. :s :)

  • @Multicellular

    She was like..."Oh I like that one, that's so pretty!" It was the init patch lol.

    Haha. There was a German dance group called Vengaboys back in the day whose music pretty much entirely consisted of Init patches and the hugely complex lyrics "Up and Down", I think they were #1 everywhere with every song :D

    Essentially, most of mankind seems to be kind of an Init patch, somehow... :grimace:

  • @Cib said:

    @sysexual said:
    Maybe as a general rule VST’s sound a bit better overall BUT, There are some iOS synths that sound better than a lot of VST’s. the ability for ios is there to compete but its up to the devs to program to compete. Zeeon, DRc, Animoog, Odyssei etc sound quite strong compared to the Vst’s i own.

    I mainly agree with this. If i had a Top 5 synths to choose to port to mac it would be right now Zeeon, Model D, Animoog, Mitosynth and Obsidian. It even hurts me to not have them on my mac. :s :)

    Zeeons analog emulation is mindblowingly good. That synth should win awards.

  • @brambos said:
    Absolutely. The CPU, being confined to such a narrow, cramped space, has much less space for good acoustics. Obviously it’s going to sound duller!

    I disagree, I am 100% certain that Apple decided that a 0 would actually be 0.001 and a 1 would actually be 0.987, by doing this they saved on storage space and bus bandwidth between RAM and CPU, at the loss of a little high end sparkle in the 1s and low end weight in the 0s, Apple have always had it in for musicians.

  • @Cib said:
    F.e. a promo video of Dune 3. Of course it‘s a real pro showing it but it’s quite hard to get such a „broadcast ready“ sound out of the box from just 1 iOS synth without a lot more work and extern FX etc.

    Really ? why ?

    Kevin did sounds for SM1 & SM2 as well:

  • @sysexual said:
    Zeeons analog emulation is mindblowingly good. That synth should win awards.

    yeah @giku_beepstreet dsp magician, gigantic respect all his work !!

  • edited December 2018

    @kv331audio_bulent said:

    @Cib said:
    F.e. a promo video of Dune 3. Of course it‘s a real pro showing it but it’s quite hard to get such a „broadcast ready“ sound out of the box from just 1 iOS synth without a lot more work and extern FX etc.

    Really ? why ?

    Kevin did sounds for SM1 & SM2 as well:

    That are great sounds indeed (but sorry, just much prefer Dune 3...and 2 but i own a few Kv331 products on both platforms ;) ). Of course Kevin can make sounds everything good. He also did cinematic sounds for Hive and a lot more synths.
    One of the best sound demos i heard yet for iOS only synth are from the mighty Brice Beasley.
    F.e. about Zeeon:

    and LayR:

    He has a similar style and ear for great details as Kevin, so that might fits to my likings anyway.
    So yeah, most synths can sound awesome on both platforms in the right hands. On iOS it just lacks more better tools in some areas but in general we live in great times.

  • @Cib said:
    He has a similar style and ear for great details as Kevin, so that might fits to my likings anyway.
    So yeah, most synths can sound awesome on both platforms in the right hands. On iOS it just lacks more better tools in some areas but in general we live in great times.

    BB will do sounds for SM1 as well, just sayin :)

  • @kv331audio_bulent said:

    @Cib said:
    He has a similar style and ear for great details as Kevin, so that might fits to my likings anyway.
    So yeah, most synths can sound awesome on both platforms in the right hands. On iOS it just lacks more better tools in some areas but in general we live in great times.

    BB will do sounds for SM1 as well, just sayin :)

    Nice to hear.....but yeah....there is no iPhone version so i´m out for now.

  • edited December 2018

    @SevenSystems said:
    @Multicellular
    Haha. There was a German dance group called Vengaboys back in the day whose music pretty much entirely consisted of Init patches and the hugely complex lyrics "Up and Down", I think they were #1 everywhere with every song :D

    hey hey, Vengaboys is from The Netherlands :)

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