PSA: Don't update to iOS 12.4 if you use apps in AB output slot or IAA apps that use the mic.
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/34030/urgent-psa-hold-off-updating-to-ios-12-4-if-you-use-apps-in-output-slot-in-audiobus

What iPad 2018?

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Comments

  • edited September 2018

    @SlowwFloww said:
    Yeah okay... but you probably only send single notes to Zeeon... Try sending 3 or 4 note chords plus some filter automation to each Zeeon instance... That will kill your iPad. :-)
    And the midi in Gadget isn’t really affecting the cpu load.. Gadget is really solid.. It keeps on playing..

    Perhaps, but all I am saying is your mileage may vary depending on what you do which you just supported.

  • edited September 2018

    @SlowwFloww said:
    If you want to buy a iPad just for music production get the Pro. My iPad. 2017 doesn’t have enough power and RAM memory. I loaded 3 instances of Zeeon (all playing 3 note chords) + Gadget (used for triggering hi-hats) in AudioBus all midi sequenced by Xequence. The CPU was at 93%. I couldnt even operate the sequencer anymore without the sound being distorted. And that’s only 3 synth instances..

    A normal iPad is good for simple stuff.. you have to choose the setup carefully and keep it lightweight..... Apps like Gadget and Caustic run solid. But using AUv3 synth and effects can get tricky..

    Zeeon, Model 15, Model D are CPU intensive compared to SM1, Poison-202, Kauldron, etc.

    Also, the device may work fine when it is new with a new chip, battery, etc. but after a year or two, it could be crawling on its knees from updates fat.

  • @SlowwFloww said:
    Yeah okay... but you probably only send single notes to Zeeon... Try sending 3 or 4 note chords plus some filter automation to each Zeeon instance... That will kill your iPad. :-)
    And the midi in Gadget isn’t really affecting the cpu load.. Gadget is really solid.. It keeps on playing..

    I got four zeeon instances in BM3 with filter automation and heavy note use with 70% CPU. This goes way beyond what I need as I am a largely an audio/sampler guy but yah it really depends on your own individual useage.


  • @MobileMusic said:

    @SlowwFloww said:
    If you want to buy a iPad just for music production get the Pro. My iPad. 2017 doesn’t have enough power and RAM memory. I loaded 3 instances of Zeeon (all playing 3 note chords) + Gadget (used for triggering hi-hats) in AudioBus all midi sequenced by Xequence. The CPU was at 93%. I couldnt even operate the sequencer anymore without the sound being distorted. And that’s only 3 synth instances..

    A normal iPad is good for simple stuff.. you have to choose the setup carefully and keep it lightweight..... Apps like Gadget and Caustic run solid. But using AUv3 synth and effects can get tricky..

    Zeeon, Model 15, Model D are CPU intensive compared to SM1, Poison-202, etc.
    Also, the device may work fine when it is new with a new chip, etc. but after a year or two, it could be crawling on its knees.

    Physical battery health is huge too, one reason why used scares me. I also find performance goes down when charging.

  • edited September 2018

    Ah, don't get me wrong I really like my iPad. I just don't think it runs apps as good and is as powerful as a laptop costing the same. So, it's best to keep things simple.. use it as a sketch pad to start a project and make the basic arrangement. Then export the project your desktop computer, there you can use your synth plugins that have better quality sound.

    I've got Zeeon, Poison, Kauldron, iSEM etc. on my iPad but I personally think that Spire, Dune2, Massive on my Mac have better, deeper more dynamic sound..

  • Cpu usage is dependant on buffer size and sample rate. I can run very large sessions on my air2 or have it struggle applying single effect on audio signal, depending on buffer size. Processing external audio in real time or playing stuff in real time needs lower latency so -> lower buffer -> more strain on cpu. For mixing even 0,5sec latency is not a real problem, just a bit annoying. You can also quite safely use a bit longer latency on gadget for example.

    So.. Lets also mention at least the buffer size when talking about what our ipads can and cant run?

  • @ToMess said:
    Cpu usage is dependant on buffer size and sample rate. I can run very large sessions on my air2 or have it struggle applying single effect on audio signal, depending on buffer size. Processing external audio in real time or playing stuff in real time needs lower latency so -> lower buffer -> more strain on cpu. For mixing even 0,5sec latency is not a real problem, just a bit annoying. You can also quite safely use a bit longer latency on gadget for example.

    So.. Lets also mention at least the buffer size when talking about what our ipads can and cant run?

    hehe, lol, yah and since we are talking about whether or not it is good for "music" please display all awards: Grammies etc. ;)

  • @SlowwFloww said:
    Ah, don't get me wrong I really like my iPad. I just don't think it runs apps as good and is as powerful as a laptop costing the same. So, it's best to keep thing simple.. use it as a sketch pad to start a project and make the basic arranement. Then export the project your desktop computer. There you can use your synth plugins that have better quality sound.

    I have been going the other way and feeding BM3 my desktop samples from Omnisphere, Massive etc, but yah I hear yah. It is a tool, work with what you have. I saw a dude with a stick and string yesterday that blew my mind.

  • I have to say I tried to stress the iPad a little in my example... just to test if Xequence could hold solid timing when used in AudioBus.. And although the cpu meter in AB was at 93% the midi timing remained solid.... I just had to start/stop the project from AudioBus..

  • @AudioGus said:

    @MobileMusic said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @MobileMusic said:

    @AudioGus said:
    Regular iPad.

    If we did not have a 350meg AU limit and the file system was not so goofy then sure the Pro may be tempting but it is not like I can run more instances of Synthmaster One or Egoist etc. and spending a grand to have to shuffle files around in this inane little rat maze, pffttt. I would rather save the money on hardware and give it to the creative devs who are the ones really moving things ahead for mobile music.

    Memory limit for AUs may be dynamically set by iOS based on model/RAM :smile:
    Read it recently by someone who was able to add multiple instances of AUs on a Pro.
    Maybe some iOS dev could verify and confirm this.

    Hmmm, well I can get three Synthmaster Ones in BM3 reliably on my 2017. Does the 10.5 have 4gigs of ram? Curious how many instances one could get on that.

    Yes, 10.5" has 4 GB RAM:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad_Pro

    So if elementary math has taught me anything... 6 instances of Synthmaster One may be plausible. If AB forum Apple shit talking has taught me anything... it may still be three. ;)

    I usually set polyphony of SM1 tracks to 4 notes and it takes a couple of more instances and also stops crackling. SM1 has 16 note polyphony by default on many instruments. I found reducing it works (unless I need 16 voices).

    I asked Lars for his opinion and he said iPad Pro 12.9" gives the BEST user experience on Cubasis 2.5 optimized for Pro resolution. Next is 10.5" followed by 9.7" and mini. If Apple introduces a 11" Pro, that would be a sweet spot.

    On the AppStore, when you view Cubasis app, it displays screenshots based on your device used while browsing (pro screenshots only when using iPad Pro, etc).

    Cubasis iPad Pro 12.9" native resolution video:

    Here are the iPad Pro screenshots - as you can see, there is not much difference between 9.7 and 10.5 resolution (10.5 is better than 9.7 but not by a lot) and 12.9 screenshots look like a laptop (!):

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tyooyp2cobgfqp7/AAAa9d4Jh8CACaf0fHGKVJE1a?dl=0

  • edited September 2018

    @SlowwFloww said:
    Yeah okay... but you probably only send single notes to Zeeon... Try sending 3 or 4 note chords plus some filter automation to each Zeeon instance... That will kill your iPad. :-)
    And the midi in Gadget isn’t really affecting the cpu load.. Gadget is really solid.. It keeps on playing..

    This topic about Gadget was discussed recently. You are comparing Gadget's built-in instruments to external AU's that come with plugin overhead baggage and memory limit set by iOS for AU's. Zeeon is heavy and Gadget cannot do what Zeeon can. Cubasis can handle over 20 tracks of its built-in Micrologue synth too on a regular iPad.

  • @SlowwFloww said:
    Ah, don't get me wrong I really like my iPad. I just don't think it runs apps as good and is as powerful as a laptop costing the same. So, it's best to keep things simple.. use it as a sketch pad to start a project and make the basic arrangement. Then export the project your desktop computer, there you can use your synth plugins that have better quality sound.

    I've got Zeeon, Poison, Kauldron, iSEM etc. on my iPad but I personally think that Spire, Dune2, Massive on my Mac have better, deeper more dynamic sound..

    This is what really makes me doubt about iPads. How many years until I have to get another one? What if I want to add a couple of effects here and there - right now effects are completely unknown to me (iPad Air 2012 and iPhone 7 plus)

    I'm not going to work with audio, just midi; nothing external, only apps. My dream set up would be the iPad, the linnstrument and a speaker. A drum machine, a sequencer and nice sounding synth for the linnstrument. That's it.

    I would go for a new Mac and would enjoy Logic's Alchemy, which has almost everything I need but I'll miss the creativity and "re-thinking" found in this iPad world. Besides, I hate clicking around with the mouse/track pad.

    🤔

  • What you can do is us your iPad to sequence a DAW on your Mac. This way you can work with a touch screen to compose and arrange while using the power of a normal computer and it’s powerful effects and synths.

    I use Xequence as my midi sequencer.. it has solid timing (unlike Cubasis) and I can send midi over wifi to Ableton Live. I could also wire my iPad to my computer (better midi performance) but wifi midi worked okay...

  • edited September 2018

    I think the problem of music making on the iPad is that’s still immature... all this new technology has just been introduced (AUv3) and app makers are struggling to make it work well on dual core machines with only 2gb of ram. So they have to find creative solutions. So right now you see a lot of bugs, or apps thats don’t run stable... I think this will all change when the ‘normal’ iPads’ and the Pro models get better specifications.. More ram, faster processors..

    The performance of my old dualcore 2,26 ghz Macbook is much better compared to my dualcore 1,84 ghz iPad. No crashes, no bugs, stabil, sounds are better. My Mac runs smooth without any problems. I think it has to do with the fact the technology is more mature + it has 8gb of ram..

    Just keep setups simple for now on an iPad. You can still do a lot of cool stuff and the touch interface REALLY makes a lot of difference, it’s great for music making. I love my iPad it’s a great compact powerful device....

    My favourite apps right now that really work well are:

    • Korg Gadget (solid timing, stable, lot’s of cool sounds en very good soundquaity and fx)
    • Caustic (solid timing, stable, lot’s of cool sounds.. this is my swiss army knife - a ‘must have’ app)
    • Xequence (tight midi sequencer, great UI!)
  • The only thing that puts me off getting the low end 128gb iPad is that the screen is a step down from my Air2. Running multiple iPads makes more sense to me than spending a fortune on one big ass Pro :D

  • I look at it like this:

    128gb iPad is £410

    With my Air 2 that’s 2 x 9.7 screens and back up in case something goes wrong.

    A 10.5 is £769 for the 256gb Model
    A 12 is £919 for the 256gb Model

    So for not much more than a 10.5, I could run 3 iPads ! That sounds more fun as my internet reaches my shed and most apps have Link now.

  • @Fruitbat1919 said:
    The only thing that puts me off getting the low end 128gb iPad is that the screen is a step down from my Air2. Running multiple iPads makes more sense to me than spending a fortune on one big ass Pro :D

    Good point...Don't forget that you'll also need a sound card to add...Or maybe just headphones jack, but require a little mixer I guess...
    Multiple iPads opens really up things...To me at least...But it also complicate a LOT some other things...(different workflows are just becoming a bit crazy sometimes...)

  • @crony said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    The only thing that puts me off getting the low end 128gb iPad is that the screen is a step down from my Air2. Running multiple iPads makes more sense to me than spending a fortune on one big ass Pro :D

    Good point...Don't forget that you'll also need a sound card to add...Or maybe just headphones jack, but require a little mixer I guess...
    Multiple iPads opens really up things...To me at least...But it also complicate a LOT some other things...(different workflows are just becoming a bit crazy sometimes...)

    Yeah I’m just plugging out straight into my powered monitors at the moment. I know it’s not the best sound in the world, but it’s OK for my messing about :D

  • edited September 2018

    Thanks so far to everyone. It really helps a lot. I am going to wait until next week, see what Apple has to show us and then I'll decide for one iPad ;)

    Besides I think I am going to upgrade my old 2012 MacBook Pro RAM from 8 to 16GB - if I can do this!
    No, upgrade not possible:

    The RAM is surface-mount soldered to the logic board, so no upgrade is possible. It will forever have 8 GB of RAM.

  • edited September 2018

    @SlowwFloww said:
    Ah, don't get me wrong I really like my iPad. I just don't think it runs apps as good and is as powerful as a laptop costing the same. So, it's best to keep things simple.. use it as a sketch pad to start a project and make the basic arrangement. Then export the project your desktop computer, there you can use your synth plugins that have better quality sound.

    I've got Zeeon, Poison, Kauldron, iSEM etc. on my iPad but I personally think that Spire, Dune2, Massive on my Mac have better, deeper more dynamic sound..

    Since iPads last for years and don’t come with memory storage/SD cards, it is better to shoot for the best configuration and highest storage. Never skimp on these as you will receive returns on these investments. I always buy cellular iPad because it is only $10 to add it to my data plan (the additional cellular version expense gets paid off in 5-6 months of adding it to a data plan and after that it is all savings every month!!) - WiFi version is more expensive to add in to a plan.

  • @tiantong said:
    Thanks so far to everyone. It really helps a lot. I am going to wait until next week, see what Apple has to show us and then I'll decide for one iPad ;)

    Besides I think I am going to upgrade my old 2012 MacBook Pro RAM from 8 to 16GB - if I can do this!
    No, upgrade not possible:

    The RAM is surface-mount soldered to the logic board, so no upgrade is possible. It will forever have 8 GB of RAM.

    Yes soldered, that's why it's so efficient ! I was disappointed about this, I'm coming from PC world, but it's much more efficient that way !!!

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