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Parameter Locking. What is it exactly?

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Comments

  • @kobamoto: Elektron has already released a beefier version of the Digitakt, it's called Octatrack 2 ;)
    And if it was as immediate to use as the Digitakt, I would have purchased that one instead. Great features on paper, but scratching my head when I'' m sitting in front of it.
    @Deluge-lovers: The Deluge has caught my attention too. If I had the money to spend and if I was free to choose between e.g. the Digitone or the Deluge, I'd certainly get the latter because I have plenty of MIDI sound sources.
    But from experience I have learned that features are nothing without intuitive usability, and that's where opinions will naturally drift, just like when discussing which DAW is "the best".
    We only have limited time to learn using a machine, and that amount of time we're ready to spend regularly somewhat determines how complex a machine we should get at best.

  • 15:30 is pretty sic

  • Are P-locks polyphonic? Meaning, can you change settings for one note, and that parameter stays the same for the entire note, regardless if it overlaps with a new note?

    For instance, you set an lfo’s speed fast for one note, when the next note comes in with a slow lfo, but the notes overlap, do you keep hearing the fast lfo on the first note?

    That would be a real difference worthy of distinction, otherwise it is just chunky automation. Which is still fun.

  • @Dawdles said:
    Not sure if deluge has tempo per track but AFAIK it doesn't have 64 step pattern limit per track? So I wouldn't really need it. I mostly only use tempo division per track on octatrack as workaround for when I want a long chord sequence etc. So that isn't necessary on Deluge AFAIK? Dunno why Elektron missed this feature out on A4, DT, DN etc...

    You can set the clock divider per track on the DT. See "10.9.2 LENGTH PER TRACK MODE" in the manual.

    It doesn't make up for the crap pattern chaining mode though. :)

  • @Processaurus said:
    Are P-locks polyphonic? Meaning, can you change settings for one note, and that parameter stays the same for the entire note, regardless if it overlaps with a new note?

    For instance, you set an lfo’s speed fast for one note, when the next note comes in with a slow lfo, but the notes overlap, do you keep hearing the fast lfo on the first note?

    That would be a real difference worthy of distinction, otherwise it is just chunky automation. Which is still fun.

    Not on the Digitakt but the DT is monophonic. Not sure if it's possible on other devices. I think you can do this with most polyphonic synths that have 'key trigger' LFOs. So yeah, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible via parameter locking, presuming the target supported key triggered LFOs.

  • My bank called and asked me to tell you to cut that shit out.

  • edited May 2018

    I was reaching for my wallet until it got close to the end and I started getting the less than fluid feeling when he got to the part of 'no truncation' and having to resample to truncate, then after that it descended into a workflow that I'm not particularly looking to get into right now but I can see that the dev has an opportunity to score some easy points by polishing up the sampling stuff a bit.

    I have to say, a great beat machine will shine through itself and it's own limitations and I know there are a lot of people very upset with elektron right now for the lack of over bridge but..... I love the digitakt to death I really do, it's been a long time that I felt that way about an instrument that I considered to be too expensive, limited, and unnecessarily handicapped by the dev...but I love just Vibing with it

  • Is there knob movement recording style p-locking? For example in Grooverider you can record knob movements as stepped automation but it’s stepped by the grid resolution, not per note and with note length also taken into account. Is this a thing that exists? Cause that would be pretty cool to just record parameter locking.

  • @db909 said:
    Is there knob movement recording style p-locking? For example in Grooverider you can record knob movements as stepped automation but it’s stepped by the grid resolution, not per note and with note length also taken into account. Is this a thing that exists? Cause that would be pretty cool to just record parameter locking.

    Yes, you can record knob movements live on Elektron boxes (and the Korg Monologue). The values are quantized to steps because there's no interstitial spots to place them. Then you're welcome to edit it further via the locking method described earlier.

  • @Mr_Beak said:
    So if the Elektron approach is different is it still the same result as say Bram Bos' Perforator?

    Here's a video on parameter locking in Perforator:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEeLYq4EeHU

  • @syrupcore said:

    @db909 said:
    Is there knob movement recording style p-locking? For example in Grooverider you can record knob movements as stepped automation but it’s stepped by the grid resolution, not per note and with note length also taken into account. Is this a thing that exists? Cause that would be pretty cool to just record parameter locking.

    Yes, you can record knob movements live on Elektron boxes (and the Korg Monologue). The values are quantized to steps because there's no interstitial spots to place them. Then you're welcome to edit it further via the locking method described earlier.

    Hmm. I’d want it to be that whatever the parameter value is at the moment of a note attack during recording, it will record and hold that value for the duration of that note upon playback. Otherwise it’s just stepped, quantized automation curves. But maybe I misunderstood

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  • edited May 2018
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  • @Dawdles said:

    @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

    @Mr_Beak said:
    So if the Elektron approach is different is it still the same result as say Bram Bos' Perforator?

    Here's a video on parameter locking in Perforator:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEeLYq4EeHU

    The only reason p-locks on Push2/Elektron/Deluge/New Rolands/Tanzbar2 etc beats regular automation imho is the workflow... Hold a step and tweak a knob. Without having that workflow id rather just use regular automation recording. The sequencer + all params need to be in the same UI for it to be fluid/Fun... Not in separate app windows. Drambo seems like it's really nailed it in ios. Midisteps looks like it would have quite nice workflow for p-locks too, but quite limited in many ways and you have to set up CC etc. Vibe killer compared to just 'hold step + tweak any parameter'...

    I see now. Pretty useful!

  • @Dawdles said:

    @syrupcore said:

    @Dawdles said:
    Not sure if deluge has tempo per track but AFAIK it doesn't have 64 step pattern limit per track? So I wouldn't really need it. I mostly only use tempo division per track on octatrack as workaround for when I want a long chord sequence etc. So that isn't necessary on Deluge AFAIK? Dunno why Elektron missed this feature out on A4, DT, DN etc...

    You can set the clock divider per track on the DT. See "10.9.2 LENGTH PER TRACK MODE" in the manual.

    It doesn't make up for the crap pattern chaining mode though. :)

    That's LENGTH per track ;) (unless tempo per track 's been added in a recent update?) I think all elektron sequencers have that. Tempo division per track is bit different and something I use constantly to get out of the 'loop' vibe that Elektron boxes inherently hem people in to a lot of the time. Only possible on octatrack. Gives patterns a little more of a linear sequencer vibe. Still not ideal though. Wish they'd up the pattern length to 128 steps...

    https://www.elektronauts.com/t/time-signature-per-track/45407/8

    It's also clock division per track. You can set both on the length screen (they call it scale). I mean, I even looked up the position in the manual for you!

  • @db909 said:

    @syrupcore said:

    @db909 said:
    Is there knob movement recording style p-locking? For example in Grooverider you can record knob movements as stepped automation but it’s stepped by the grid resolution, not per note and with note length also taken into account. Is this a thing that exists? Cause that would be pretty cool to just record parameter locking.

    Yes, you can record knob movements live on Elektron boxes (and the Korg Monologue). The values are quantized to steps because there's no interstitial spots to place them. Then you're welcome to edit it further via the locking method described earlier.

    Hmm. I’d want it to be that whatever the parameter value is at the moment of a note attack during recording, it will record and hold that value for the duration of that note upon playback. Otherwise it’s just stepped, quantized automation curves. But maybe I misunderstood

    I'm pretty sure that's what it is. That step gets whatever value the parameter is set to at the moment of the trig.

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  • Parameter locking is great. It basically allows you to have different settings for each step of a sequence. I have a digitakt and I’ve never had so much fun making music.

  • @Dawdles said:

    @syrupcore said:

    @Dawdles said:

    @syrupcore said:

    @Dawdles said:
    Not sure if deluge has tempo per track but AFAIK it doesn't have 64 step pattern limit per track? So I wouldn't really need it. I mostly only use tempo division per track on octatrack as workaround for when I want a long chord sequence etc. So that isn't necessary on Deluge AFAIK? Dunno why Elektron missed this feature out on A4, DT, DN etc...

    You can set the clock divider per track on the DT. See "10.9.2 LENGTH PER TRACK MODE" in the manual.

    It doesn't make up for the crap pattern chaining mode though. :)

    That's LENGTH per track ;) (unless tempo per track 's been added in a recent update?) I think all elektron sequencers have that. Tempo division per track is bit different and something I use constantly to get out of the 'loop' vibe that Elektron boxes inherently hem people in to a lot of the time. Only possible on octatrack. Gives patterns a little more of a linear sequencer vibe. Still not ideal though. Wish they'd up the pattern length to 128 steps...

    https://www.elektronauts.com/t/time-signature-per-track/45407/8

    It's also clock division per track. You can set both on the length screen (they call it scale). I mean, I even looked up the position in the manual for you!

    No, that's describing scale Per Pattern... Not per track. Only Octatrack does scale/tempo division per track... Hence my pasting that discussion link from Nauts that confirmed it ;)

    From the manual -
    'SCALE controls the time signature of the pattern. It offers seven possible settings, 1/8X, 1/4X, 1/2X, 3/4X,
    1X, 3/2X and 2X. A setting of 1/8X will play back the pattern at one-eighth of the set tempo. 3/4X plays
    the pattern back at three-quarters of the tempo; 3/2X will play back the pattern twice as fast as the 3/4X
    setting. 2X will make the pattern play at twice the BPM.

    Ack. My bad. I could have sworn I had this going at some point.

  • All I know is I love the digitakt, and whether or not I ever get any other elektron products or not I will keep it forever because in the right hands it can do whatever I want it to do.

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  • @Dawdles said:

    @kobamoto said:
    All I know is I love the digitakt, and whether or not I ever get any other elektron products or not I will keep it forever because in the right hands it can do whatever I want it to do.

    Yeah, a lot of people dig the DT. If it does what you want it to to then sweet :) It's missing a lot from my POV, but then so is OT in some ways (polyphonic tracks/stems export or separate outs/longer patterns/user sound presets etc...). I'd take Push2 over OT a lot of the time recently. Keen to see what elektron's next big box is all about but have a feeling i'll be mostly underwhelmed again..

    If you compare the spec sheets of Ableton and the Digitakt, the Digitakt will look like a joke in comparison.
    It's not that I wouldn't want poly audio tracks (which I remedy by using the 8 poly MIDI tracks), stereo samples and SD cards for storage on it, but it's not that I would ever try to replace Ableton Live by a little hardware box.
    Quick sampling, hands-on control and a lovely user interface (from my own POV of course) make it the first stop for either capturing ideas or just toying around with samples, and my second stop is Ableton Live to "go deeper".
    Push 2 is really well done, but let's not forget that Push 2 plus Ableton Suite software is about twice the price of a Digitakt.
    Both complement each other, I would say. Some time in the future elektron will release Overbridge with much better integration into any DAW, but for now I can stream audio and MIDI into Ableton Live already, better than nothing.

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  • edited May 2018

    @Dawdles: There's still room for improvement in the elektron boxes, no question, especially when considering the prices asked :wink:

  • @rs2000 said:
    @Dawdles: There's still room for improvement in the elektron boxes, no question, especially when considering the prices asked :wink:

    definitely, Imo the digitakt is like the Roland sp-404 or op1 in regards to how many improvements they could make, it's amazing what people get out of them though in spite of their omissions

  • @kobamoto said:

    @rs2000 said:
    @Dawdles: There's still room for improvement in the elektron boxes, no question, especially when considering the prices asked :wink:

    definitely, Imo the digitakt is like the Roland sp-404 or op1 in regards to how many improvements they could make, it's amazing what people get out of them though in spite of their omissions

    Or maybe the sp and the op are classics that people got so much out of in least in part because of their omissions.

  • Indeed.

  • Huh, turns out p-locks in Drambo don’t work as I thought they did. Like someone asked before, is it possible to make locks last the note’s whole duration polyphonically, Elektron style? Right now they work like a monophonic automation layer, instead of latching and being a property of the triggered note.

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