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Parameter Locking. What is it exactly?

Not something I've had experience with. Maybe a simple explanation and why it's good?

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Comments

  • edited May 2018

    It's just another word for automation. It's pointlessly complex, and whoever came up with it should either be taken out and shot or chastised by my grandmother. His choice.

  • two great examples

  • @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:
    It's just another word for automation. It's pointlessly complex, and whoever came up with it should either be taken out and shot or chastised by my grandmother. His choice.

    Not really, it's the elektron way of parameter locking. And yes it is different to on other machines and daws. A trig is an object that can be cut, pasted, moved and modified on most other gear you can move the note but have to move the parameter mods separately, which is a PITA if you have 36 different mods on a single step, but on an elektron box its easy.

  • edited May 2018

    ^^true, it's one of the greatest standards to come of age in beatmachines today, and the elektron style implementation makes it very easy to execute maximum control. Everyone does It a little different but imho their way should be the standard as it's clearly the most advantageous.

  • So if the Elektron approach is different is it still the same result as say Bram Bos' Perforator?

  • Can someone explain please? I’m sure I will go “oh that” once it’s explained, but no one has done so. And I’ve never used any elektron gear so I have no idea when that’s referred to

  • @db909 said:
    Can someone explain please? I’m sure I will go “oh that” once it’s explained, but no one has done so. And I’ve never used any elektron gear so I have no idea when that’s referred to

    Same here. I would scratch my head, but don’t want to lose any more hair! :p

  • @Mr_Beak said:
    So if the Elektron approach is different is it still the same result as say Bram Bos' Perforator?

    I would rather explain that parameter locking is a method of automation, rather than a specific result you get. On Elektron machines and other sequencers that use parameter locking, you hold the step you want to apply a lock to and you adjust a value.

    In many DAWS, there is an "automation" editor separate from the note sequence, and it often involves "drawing in" an automation curve rather than "per-step" adjustments.

    You can achieve the same result with Perforator, but there's several additional steps. Opening Perforator, designating the CCs, then mapping the CCs and drawing them in. And what if you want to copy a step with all of its locks? No can do. Perforator is acting as more of a modulation source than something tied to a "step" like parameter locking is. Still very cool!

  • So lemme get this straight, it’s just setting a parameter value per step, presumably holding that value for the duration of the step before advancing to the next which has its own value? So stepped automation but per step rather than grid resolution?

  • @db909 said:
    So lemme get this straight, it’s just setting a parameter value per step, presumably holding that value for the duration of the step before advancing to the next which has its own value? So stepped automation but per step rather than grid resolution?

    Yes. I would say it gets so much hype because many people find it more fluid and tactile than working with a grid and adjusting values. It's more fun and occurs "in-the-groove" rather than dragging an automation curve in a DAW. Elektron specifically get's so much love because many of their machines can parameter lock sounds per step, not just parameters. So on track 1 you might have a kick drum, but you can p-lock the sample or synth patch per step.

  • @bcrichards said:

    @db909 said:
    So lemme get this straight, it’s just setting a parameter value per step, presumably holding that value for the duration of the step before advancing to the next which has its own value? So stepped automation but per step rather than grid resolution?

    Yes. I would say it gets so much hype because many people find it more fluid and tactile than working with a grid and adjusting values. It's more fun and occurs "in-the-groove" rather than dragging an automation curve in a DAW. Elektron specifically get's so much love because many of their machines can parameter lock sounds per step, not just parameters. So on track 1 you might have a kick drum, but you can p-lock the sample or synth patch per step.

    I would add, it's probably more relevant to hardware, or grooveboxes/step sequencers on IOS that are trying to emulate the hardware experience. The alternative to p-locking on hardware would either be menu diving or trying to record automation in real-time. P-Locking makes it quick and fluid.

  • @db909 said:
    So lemme get this straight, it’s just setting a parameter value per step, presumably holding that value for the duration of the step before advancing to the next which has its own value? So stepped automation but per step rather than grid resolution?

    Succinctly said (ironically by the person who initially needed an explanation).

  • @ph8aerror said:

    @db909 said:
    So lemme get this straight, it’s just setting a parameter value per step, presumably holding that value for the duration of the step before advancing to the next which has its own value? So stepped automation but per step rather than grid resolution?

    Succinctly said (ironically by the person who initially needed an explanation).

    Ha. No kidding. I’ve never had the pleasure of using this feature. Usually I just turn knobs while recording for regular automation. I like that performance aspect. Though it seems this would go hand in hand with that if the software/hardware allowed it

  • @ph8aerror said:

    @db909 said:
    So lemme get this straight, it’s just setting a parameter value per step, presumably holding that value for the duration of the step before advancing to the next which has its own value? So stepped automation but per step rather than grid resolution?

    Succinctly said (ironically by the person who initially needed an explanation).

    Yup. Perfect. On a step sequencer "per step" == "grid resolution" and the whole notion is from step sequencers, not piano roll style sequencers.

    Agree that it's somewhat specific to hardware because in a DAW if you wanted to change the decay time for just one "step" you can just draw in the value you want and use the visual tools to reset it on either side.

    In a hardware machine though, you'd either have to dig through 8 menus to edit some CC value for a step or try to manually record knob movement and limit the move to just that step. The former is a pain and the latter is basically impossible, even at really slow tempos the steps on either side will likely have different values than the base value.

    In Elektron land, you just hold down a step button and twist any knob you want. That one step now has a distinct value for that one parameter. You can pile these up. You can also hold down multiple step buttons to set more than one step to the same value. It's fun and it's fast and it's intuitive.

    Bram's new app still requires some set up to get things mapped but because it's step based you can easily accomplish single step parameter changes without any overflow on the steps next to it like you'd get when recording it manually.

    It can be used for all sorts of things, just like automation in other sequencers. One of the main uses for it on Elektron boxes though is make it feel like you have more tracks than you do. A common example is to use an open hi hat sample for both open and closed hat sounds. You set the default sample decay to something very short and on the steps where you want an open hat you plock the decay time to something longer. Or plock the pitch to get a four tom fill instead of needing to use up four tracks and four samples. Actually, the sample loaded into the track is also just a parameter so you can even "lock" which sample triggers on which step.

    The Korg Monologue supports step based automation recording as well. You hold a seq step and move any knob and that step has that value locked. A common use on that box is to lock the second OSC to "noise" on steps 5 and 13 to fake a snare hit on those steps. Or adjust the cutoff and resonance on steps 1 and 9 to make a kick. If you were to try and record manual movements of those knobs it wouldn't work/sound the same.

    iOS classic TweekyBeats takes this notion to the extreme. It's one monophonic drum synth driven by one monophonic sequencer where you set the parameters for each step to vary the sound. The only difference was he added the ability to save the parameter setups as sounds (colors) so it's a little easier to shuffle them around vs manually doing each parameter adjustment on a given step. While not quite as nice as the tweakybeats setup, as mentioned, Elektron boxes let you copy and paste steps (aka trigs).

    The big advantage (for me anyway) Bram's app has over these hardware units is that you can run automation asynchronously from the musical pattern driving the sound. You can't have a plock pattern messing with the filter of 7 steps along with a 16 step baseline on the hardware. At least not on the digitakt.

  • edited May 2018

    When I got my Digitakt which is my first elektron box, I wondered just as much about "Parameter Locks" and what the hype was about.
    Indeed, it's nothing but automation of any parameter per-step.
    What's so special about it and what I have really learned to appreciate is the choice of parameters that you can automate, and the way you can automate them.
    Just a few examples:

    • You can hold an arbitrary combination of step buttons (like 1,5,9,13) simultaneously, turn the filter cutoff knob and voilá, value set for all these steps at once.
    • You can set a different sample for each step, so you can write complicated drum tracks on just two or three audio tracks
    • You can deeply automate the MIDI tracks with bank select, program change and CC messages per step, so when controlling external MIDI gear, you can easily do automation for that gear! This is so powerful and easy, it's addictive.
    • You can load a drum loop and "slice" it by setting the sample start point differently for each step. As the envelope trig hold time can also be set, it's easy to make the slice sound like you want. Even reverse playback and/or different envelope settings per step are possible.
    • You can even fine-adjust the timing of each step (in both directions) which is good when controlling external gear with increasing latency at high polyphony, like many Roland JV/XV expanders.
    • Working with the box for a while made most iOS apps feel a bit like from the stone age in terms of fast hands-on workflow, interconnectivity and tight synchronization, but that doesn't belong here ;)
  • the big difference is that the step after the step you are currently editing remains free of the edits you're making... in other versions of p. locking after you edit the current step, the following steps are also changed and you have to edit those as well... which sucks.

  • @rs2000 said:
    When I got my Digitakt which is my first elektron box, I wondered just as much about "Parameter Locks" and what the hype was about.
    Indeed, it's nothing but automation of any parameter per-step.
    What's so special about it and what I have really learned to appreciate is the choice of parameters that you can automate, and the way you can automate them.
    Just a few examples:

    • You can hold an arbitrary combination of step buttons (like 1,5,9,13) simultaneously, turn the filter cutoff knob and voilá, value set for all these steps at once.
    • You can set a different sample for each step, so you can write complicated drum tracks on just two or three audio tracks
    • You can deeply automate the MIDI tracks with bank select, program change and CC messages per step, so when controlling external MIDI gear, you can easily do automation for that gear! This is so powerful and easy, it's addictive.
    • You can load a drum loop and "slice" it by setting the sample start point differently for each step. As the envelope trig hold time can also be set, it's easy to make the slice sound like you want. Even reverse playback and/or different envelope settings per step are possible.
    • You can even fine-adjust the timing of each step (in both directions) which is good when controlling external gear with increasing latency at high polyphony, like many Roland JV/XV expanders.
    • Working with the box for a while made most iOS apps feel a bit like from the stone age in terms of fast hands-on workflow, interconnectivity and tight synchronization, but that doesn't belong here ;)

    some great points

  • @kobamoto said:
    ^^true, it's one of the greatest standards to come of age in beatmachines today, and the elektron style implementation makes it very easy to execute maximum control. Everyone does It a little different but imho their way should be the standard as it's clearly the most advantageous.

    +1.
    If I had to describe elektron engineering, I'd say:
    While most other manufacturers build what they think is necessary to just make people buy their stuff, elektron create instruments that can make people happy in the long run. They don't hesitate to build what's technically possible at the price asked for the box.

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • edited May 2018

    the deluge has tempo per track?... really, is that any tempo or just some kind of division of the global tempo?

    as far as fx elektron has the deluge beat in my opinion when it comes to quality, maybe not quantity but the sequencer really goes a long way on top of that to mangle stuff, mangle resample mangle etc.... I do like that the deluge has time stretching although Imo it's no the greatest when it comes to being used to Ableton but cool none-the-less.. as much as I love sample slicing I prefer the digitakt to the deluge slicing and the digitakt doesn't have slicing. Moving around the digitakt is like windsurfing.... albeit there was no reason they couldn't have put in stereo capability, greater storage amounts, and a rechargeable battery... that kind of stuff get's on my nerves.. lets hope they've got the branding attitude out of their system and come with something better next time as I'm not going to spend another $650 on a sampling beat machine that's mono and only 1gig of sample storage +64mb of project ram.... but I knew that going in and this is the last box I'll ever get for myself with that creativity stems from limitations ethos as it's backbone.

  • Stereo samples would mean twice the processing and ram requirements. If they offered that, I'd want the ability to stay in mono and double the sample tracks!

  • @Dawdles said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @kobamoto said:
    ^^true, it's one of the greatest standards to come of age in beatmachines today, and the elektron style implementation makes it very easy to execute maximum control. Everyone does It a little different but imho their way should be the standard as it's clearly the most advantageous.

    +1.
    If I had to describe elektron engineering, I'd say:
    While most other manufacturers build what they think is necessary to just make people buy their stuff, elektron create instruments that can make people happy in the long run. They don't hesitate to build what's technically possible at the price asked for the box.

    Elektron are pretty frugal with their features in a lot if ways... Especially in their smaller boxes. Beginning to look dated compared to things like Deluge... Polyphony, insert fx, slicing, timestrech, tempo per track, storage.... All missing or limited. Keen to see what their next big box brings, hopefully it's more in line with modern cpu power and memory etc. Push2 and Ableton 10 have got me barely touching my hardware these days tbh...massive improvement over Ableton 9 and feels a lot more like using an Elektron box on steroids ;) Considering buying a Deluge at some point as seems to have similar scope...

    I'm constantly tempted by the deluge but I can't help but get the feeling that it's actually a little too much power to use with no screen and minimal knobs. It's really hard to tell just watching videos. There are none in display around here and it's more money than I could spend on an experiment.

  • edited May 2018
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • It seems that pretty much everyone who owns a Deluge absolutely loves the workflow and doesn't miss a screen. I'm so tempted to get one!

  • @rs2000 said:
    When I got my Digitakt which is my first elektron box, I wondered just as much about "Parameter Locks" and what the hype was about.
    Indeed, it's nothing but automation of any parameter per-step.
    What's so special about it and what I have really learned to appreciate is the choice of parameters that you can automate, and the way you can automate them.
    Just a few examples:

    • You can hold an arbitrary combination of step buttons (like 1,5,9,13) simultaneously, turn the filter cutoff knob and voilá, value set for all these steps at once.
    • You can set a different sample for each step, so you can write complicated drum tracks on just two or three audio tracks
    • You can deeply automate the MIDI tracks with bank select, program change and CC messages per step, so when controlling external MIDI gear, you can easily do automation for that gear! This is so powerful and easy, it's addictive.
    • You can load a drum loop and "slice" it by setting the sample start point differently for each step. As the envelope trig hold time can also be set, it's easy to make the slice sound like you want. Even reverse playback and/or different envelope settings per step are possible.
    • You can even fine-adjust the timing of each step (in both directions) which is good when controlling external gear with increasing latency at high polyphony, like many Roland JV/XV expanders.
    • Working with the box for a while made most iOS apps feel a bit like from the stone age in terms of fast hands-on workflow, interconnectivity and tight synchronization, but that doesn't belong here ;)

    Reading this explanation makes me want an elektron...badly :neutral:

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • edited May 2018

    @Dawdles said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @rs2000 said:
    When I got my Digitakt which is my first elektron box, I wondered just as much about "Parameter Locks" and what the hype was about.
    Indeed, it's nothing but automation of any parameter per-step.
    What's so special about it and what I have really learned to appreciate is the choice of parameters that you can automate, and the way you can automate them.
    Just a few examples:

    • You can hold an arbitrary combination of step buttons (like 1,5,9,13) simultaneously, turn the filter cutoff knob and voilá, value set for all these steps at once.
    • You can set a different sample for each step, so you can write complicated drum tracks on just two or three audio tracks
    • You can deeply automate the MIDI tracks with bank select, program change and CC messages per step, so when controlling external MIDI gear, you can easily do automation for that gear! This is so powerful and easy, it's addictive.
    • You can load a drum loop and "slice" it by setting the sample start point differently for each step. As the envelope trig hold time can also be set, it's easy to make the slice sound like you want. Even reverse playback and/or different envelope settings per step are possible.
    • You can even fine-adjust the timing of each step (in both directions) which is good when controlling external gear with increasing latency at high polyphony, like many Roland JV/XV expanders.
    • Working with the box for a while made most iOS apps feel a bit like from the stone age in terms of fast hands-on workflow, interconnectivity and tight synchronization, but that doesn't belong here ;)

    Reading this explanation makes me want an elektron...badly :neutral:

    I'd hold off a little while personally. From the leaked Drambo info it sounds like it'll do all this and more ;) Beepstreet are among the few ios devs that I'd bet could really nail it in terms of sound and fx etc. That dev has great fx/filter/drive algos. Might just be a case of buying a dedicated controller for that app and job done....

    Yes, I am keeping a close eye on Drambo too ;)

  • actually as much as I'd like a deluge for the sake of it, I actually ordered one from the first batch and then canceled.. I'm gonna wait on what he's got up his sleeve for next time around. The no waveform view on the screen doesn't bother me as I started out with that same system of ears and numbers, still use my ears more now than the screen as it's just natural but something just doesn't jive yet for me... it's something in the way it moves lol but what I hope the dev does is not build too much on the current version and just move to a version 2 hardware. I think the elektron boxes have done a lot to teach other devs some tools they need to add to their arsenal and the deluge dev listens to everything that's going on... Originally the sampling was terrible on the deluge but he listened a lot and made some good improvements... not enough for me yet but I think on his next instrument he will have rounded those edges..

    the digitakt is just lovely as it is really, even with those omissions I wish it had it's still lovely, kind of like the op-1 in a way. I will never get rid of that thing. it's not enough but it's enough as in better to leave them wanting more than to over do it, I have some other beat machines so it fits right in the right spot so to say. I also think elektron is going to come with a beefier version of the digitakt and then something else completely new.

    I also believe that polyene is working on a sampler as well, not in the nearest of futures but they did say to keep my eyes open. If so it will be interesting and I'd probably head towards that direction or the deluge 2.

    everybody loves beep street.. I want to luv them but haven't been to crazy about their sound although they're talented veterans for sure, anyways if you're looking for a great controller for drambo there's some nice ones over in the marketplace ;)

  • I wonder why no or not much synths offer this option. F.e. parameter locks per key.
    Mod mappers, arps as modulation source etc. can achieve quite the same but it´s a lot work more work to set this up with many parameters.

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