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Grand Finale - by Klevgrand

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Comments

  • I own a lot of the iOS mastering options, (Pro L 2, Grand Finale, Maxima, Lurssen, Final Touch and Audio Mastering), I'll see if I can make a comparison at some point. In my experience though if you push things hard you will get distortion with every one of those options, but the distortion is more controlled and less unpleasant with FF and Lurssen.

  • tjatja
    edited April 2018

    Very interesting question.

    Please don't forget, that humans tend to see and hear what they want to see and hear!
    Only with proper ABX you can get past this.

    Also, when uploading examples, please also upload the un-mastered mix!

    FF have the big advantage of having a graphical view and I think, that this helps alot!
    Final Touch also has a graphic view, but from what I saw, it cannot compare to what is possible in FF - and additionally very small.

    EDIT: Mastering is comprised of EQ, Compression and Limiting, IIRC.
    So, let's not concentrate only on limiting, or?

  • edited April 2018

    For sure we search for a certain sound while mastering a track. I like when things are glued together, when bass is bumped, highs clear and present and mediums not recessed, with some added warmth as well as some sweetness and punch. I find GF to lacks medium quality, and bass is not that clear too. Knobs seems to not do that much on sound and there is also lack of punch. Lurssen is refined and gives some warmth, is easy to use, but DDMF suite seems to give a good balance between punch and clarity but is harder to use properly. It also depends a lot on track genre. I usually mix midi and audio parts, with sax recordings so perhaps it has also something to do with that and GF is not perfectly suited to what I’m searching for.

  • @tja said:
    EDIT: Mastering is comprised of EQ, Compression and Limiting, IIRC.
    So, let's not concentrate only on limiting, or?

    IMO mastering has the sole purpose of achieving a target loudness level, everything else should be done in the mix. Mastering has always been about getting the tracks ready for a particular platform, be it vinyl or CD or streaming.

    For sure if you are sending your tracks elsewhere for mastering, or you are mastering someone else's music, having another pair of ears evaluate the mix and maybe make some changes could be beneficial, but that's really just a sideshow - mastering really is just about getting the levels right for the desired platform. If the EQ needs tweaking it always makes more sense to do that in the mix!

    But yes, if I do get around to doing a comparison I will post the files without initially revealing which app they came from, and I will post the un-mastered track as well.

  • @richardyot said:

    @tja said:
    EDIT: Mastering is comprised of EQ, Compression and Limiting, IIRC.
    So, let's not concentrate only on limiting, or?

    IMO mastering has the sole purpose of achieving a target loudness level, everything else should be done in the mix. Mastering has always been about getting the tracks ready for a particular platform, be it vinyl or CD or streaming.

    For sure if you are sending your tracks elsewhere for mastering, or you are mastering someone else's music, having another pair of ears evaluate the mix and maybe make some changes could be beneficial, but that's really just a sideshow - mastering really is just about getting the levels right for the desired platform. If the EQ needs tweaking it always makes more sense to do that in the mix!

    But yes, if I do get around to doing a comparison I will post the files without initially revealing which app they came from, and I will post the un-mastered track as well.

    Absolutely.......... If the mix is wrong, so will the mastering. The mix in a track is the most important thing out of all things. The Mastering engineer can only take it so far, but not much. It wont make much difference in what software/app you use for mastering, if you haven't got the mix right. ;)

  • @richardyot said:
    I own a lot of the iOS mastering options, (Pro L 2, Grand Finale, Maxima, Lurssen, Final Touch and Audio Mastering), I'll see if I can make a comparison at some point. In my experience though if you push things hard you will get distortion with every one of those options, but the distortion is more controlled and less unpleasant with FF and Lurssen.

    Thanks for the recommendation Richard, I will make sure to avoid FF and Lurssen :wink:

  • Here’s one persons take from Gearslutz.com

  • If you think about it, you have 15 or so parameters to manipulate, plus many of them have several different modes. So mathematically that’s enough to for someone to do a completely shitty job in Grand Finale, a great job and everything in between. So despite its simplified nature and not having to set compressor ratios and what not, you still gotta have an ear.

  • tjatja
    edited April 2018

    Slightly irritated, I re-read the signal pathes of GF.

    The EQ comes after all other modules of the main signal path.

    As you normally use an EQ to either remove or accentuate some frequencies, I would do so BEFORE using a compress, or multi-band compressor.

    But then, at least the limiter comes after the EQ :smile:

    And Final Touch also has Pre-EQ and Post-EQ ...
    And also, this EQ is basic with just "bass" and "treble".

    I also noticed, that the iOS version lacks the bypass option for the highpass filter.

    Going to play around with that now B)

  • tjatja
    edited April 2018

    Some things i noticed and thought:

    1) Input gain

    Searching the sweet spot for input gain is tedious.

    Why can´t that tool do do this by itself?
    "Search the most green setting" ...
    "Feature Request" :smile:

    2) Output gain

    Then, i would adjust the output so, that the RMS never hits 0 dB and further reduce so, that LUFS does not reach -10?

    Anyway, the RMS does not show when 0 dB was hit, as most mixers do. Sad thing.
    "Feature Request" :smile:

    Also, why can´t a set a target LUFS?
    This would be the most basic thing.
    "Feature Request" :smile:

    3) Compressor

    The compressor seems to be usable.
    I will try to compare it to other compressors later.

    Is that the same compressor as from "Korvpressor"?
    That also seem to have bass, mids and treble, as this one.

    4) Multiband Compressor

    The multiband compressor less so.
    It can very much dampen the sound, it seems to me.
    But then, this is mostly noticable, when using 100%

    Don´t have PressIt. Is this he same compressor as from "PressIt"? But there will be some different, i think.

  • 5) Other modules

    I would not use stereo tool and the equalizer, i think.
    This should be done in the mix or at least before GF, i feel.

    And most probably only one of compressor and multiband-compressor - so the multiband.

    I also would not use the additional signal path (with distortion, compressor and gain).
    That means, that i would need to set the gain to 0 here, as it otherwise just adds volume from what i heard.
    So this, is a wet / dry mix knob in this case.
    Just let it at 0 to get only the wet signal.

    I also missed, that the knobs don´t react on a double-tap to reset to default I HATE trying to get something to a certain value - more about this in a different topic.
    "Feature Request" :smile:

  • Beside my above points, the Grand Finale manul for Mac or Windows, explains that both of them have fine-tuning for the knobs and also double-click for resetting the knobs.

    Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, add that to iOS too, @sundhage

  • @Jocphone said:

    @richardyot said:
    I own a lot of the iOS mastering options, (Pro L 2, Grand Finale, Maxima, Lurssen, Final Touch and Audio Mastering), I'll see if I can make a comparison at some point. In my experience though if you push things hard you will get distortion with every one of those options, but the distortion is more controlled and less unpleasant with FF and Lurssen.

    Thanks for the recommendation Richard, I will make sure to avoid FF and Lurssen :wink:

    Lol!

  • Re-reading what i wrote, PressIt has a multiband compressor and a limiter. So that may already be what i get from Grand Finale when used as written above.

    But then, PressIt does not seem to have a RMS or LUFS display.
    Will check YouTube for this and then maybe get PressIt.

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