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Trouble starting several AU instances

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Comments

  • Does anyone have "privileged contacts" at Apple, just to ensure they are aware of this problem? I have open an incident on their website but I think it is like pissing in a cello...

  • @cuscolima said:
    Does anyone have "privileged contacts" at Apple, just to ensure they are aware of this problem? I have open an incident on their website but I think it is like pissing in a cello...

    I'm sure Garageband has to deal with the same mess as every other host, so there must be people aware of it inside Apple ;)

    Besides, both Mathieu and myself have reported it on their dev forum.

  • @brambos said:

    @cuscolima said:
    Does anyone have "privileged contacts" at Apple, just to ensure they are aware of this problem? I have open an incident on their website but I think it is like pissing in a cello...

    I'm sure Garageband has to deal with the same mess as every other host, so there must be people aware of it inside Apple ;)

    Besides, both Mathieu and myself have reported it on their dev forum.

    Good, thanks a lot. We are a small community but there is one thing that we do very well : make noise ;0)

  • 12.9 II 256Gb

    I’ve done some testing with my AU effects in the hope that there might be a dev where some of their apps have a problem and some do not. There is one.

    K Devices Shaper 27
    AD Dubstation 2
    AD Eos 3
    AD Fuzzplus 2
    AD Grind 2
    AD Replicant 2
    AD Rough Rider 2
    FAC Chorus 50 (+? got bored)
    Virsyn Bandhift 5
    Virsyn Harmony Eight 2
    Lofionic Duplicat 30 (+? got bored)
    Frekvens 30 (+?) got bored
    Klevgrand SquashIt 2
    Klevgrand Svep 7
    Amazing Noises Limiter 7
    Amazing Noises Reverb 6

    Ape Delay 4
    Ape Filter 3
    Ape iDensity (fx) 4

    Ape iVCS3 Env (effect) (30+ got bored)

    So, some of Alessadro’s aps have the problem but the iVCS3 effects do not. I have written to him making him aware of this thread and asking him if he can spot any obvious coding or library differences between iVCS3 and his other apps (which all share a similar look/architecture).

  • @lnikj said:
    12.9 II 256Gb

    I’ve done some testing with my AU effects in the hope that there might be a dev where some of their apps have a problem and some do not. There is one.

    K Devices Shaper 27
    AD Dubstation 2
    AD Eos 3
    AD Fuzzplus 2
    AD Grind 2
    AD Replicant 2
    AD Rough Rider 2
    FAC Chorus 50 (+? got bored)
    Virsyn Bandhift 5
    Virsyn Harmony Eight 2
    Lofionic Duplicat 30 (+? got bored)
    Frekvens 30 (+?) got bored
    Klevgrand SquashIt 2
    Klevgrand Svep 7
    Amazing Noises Limiter 7
    Amazing Noises Reverb 6

    Ape Delay 4
    Ape Filter 3
    Ape iDensity (fx) 4

    Ape iVCS3 Env (effect) (30+ got bored)

    So, some of Alessadro’s aps have the problem but the iVCS3 effects do not. I have written to him making him aware of this thread and asking him if he can spot any obvious coding or library differences between iVCS3 and his other apps (which all share a similar look/architecture).

    It looks like it could be a Juce issue..?

  • To the best of my knowledge -

    JUCE: Audio Damage, Klevgrand & Apesoft (but not iVCS3)
    NON-JUCE: K-Devices, FAC, Frekvens & Lofionic

  • @nrgb said:
    To the best of my knowledge -

    JUCE: Audio Damage, Klevgrand & Apesoft (but not iVCS3)
    NON-JUCE: K-Devices, FAC, Frekvens & Lofionic

    That would appear to seal it !

  • Hello,
    According to Apple documentations:

    The memory limit imposed for AU Extensions on iOS is 300 MB for 32-bit devices and 360 MB on 64-bit devices.
    These are performance considerations as you can expect from iOS devices having limited shared resources.

    I guess the maximum number of AU instances before crashing is depending from the screen resolutions which can allocate different chunks of memory for different devices.
    I hoper this limitation will removed on iOS 11.

  • No-one of my apps, including Amazingnoises apps are JUCE based.

    @nrgb said:
    To the best of my knowledge -

    JUCE: Audio Damage, Klevgrand & Apesoft (but not iVCS3)
    NON-JUCE: K-Devices, FAC, Frekvens & Lofionic

  • @scarbo said:
    No-one of my apps, including Amazingnoises apps are JUCE based.

    @nrgb said:
    To the best of my knowledge -

    JUCE: Audio Damage, Klevgrand & Apesoft (but not iVCS3)
    NON-JUCE: K-Devices, FAC, Frekvens & Lofionic

    Sorry. I stand corrected.
    Not sure why I thought this...

  • @scarbo said:
    Hello,
    According to Apple documentations:

    The memory limit imposed for AU Extensions on iOS is 300 MB for 32-bit devices and 360 MB on 64-bit devices.
    These are performance considerations as you can expect from iOS devices having limited shared resources.

    I guess the maximum number of AU instances before crashing is depending from the screen resolutions which can allocate different chunks of memory for different devices.
    I hoper this limitation will removed on iOS 11.

    A combination of memory limits and the new fancy graphics in second generation PROs then; explains also why the 12.9 struggles more than the 10.5.

    I guess those apps that do use JUCE (not yours!) use more memory.

    As you say, only Apple can fix this.

    My 12.9 is looking less and less 'pro' all the time :(

  • Just for the record, I went and bought a 12.9" this morning, restored it from my 10.5 backup, and was able to instantly recreate this issue in AUM.

    Also, the Roli people are aware of the problem, and have attempted a couple fixes. The only product of ours that has these attempts is Pumphouse, which happened to be built with the version of JUCE that contains them. I'm going to rebuild some of the others with the new SDK and see if that helps matters.

    I had an idea for another hack... errrrr... I mean "fix" that may work temporarily until we see how iOS 11 is sitting: I could put a short wait loop in the constructor of the editor, seeded with a random time (in milliseconds, so you wouldn't notice) to force multiple instances to stagger their loading. From what Bram said earlier in the thread, this may actually work. I'm going to try it anyhow.

  • Further update: I am mildly pleased to report that it isn't us, as was hinted at by the test cases above. I built the JuceDemoPlug, which is the stock AUv3 that we start with, with the absolute latest bleeding edge JUCE kit, and it failed after 7-8 instances, depending on the host.

    Things I learned:

    1. This isn't us; it is either JUCE or Apple. (whew!)
    2. The number of instances, as Bram said earlier, is dependent on the amount of RAM the UI needs. The more RAM the UI requires, the less instances will start.
    3. If you instance, then open the UI, then instance again, and open the UI as you go along, you can instance far more.

    I can see sort of where the failure is happening, but as AUv3s are very difficult to debug, being sandboxed, I can't say for certain. I've given all my findings to Roli, and they're usually pretty quick about coming up with a fix. Hopefully they'll have something for us in the next day or two.

  • @Chris_Randall said:
    Further update: I am mildly pleased to report that it isn't us, as was hinted at by the test cases above. I built the JuceDemoPlug, which is the stock AUv3 that we start with, with the absolute latest bleeding edge JUCE kit, and it failed after 7-8 instances, depending on the host.

    Things I learned:

    1. This isn't us; it is either JUCE or Apple. (whew!)
    2. The number of instances, as Bram said earlier, is dependent on the amount of RAM the UI needs. The more RAM the UI requires, the less instances will start.
    3. If you instance, then open the UI, then instance again, and open the UI as you go along, you can instance far more.

    I can see sort of where the failure is happening, but as AUv3s are very difficult to debug, being sandboxed, I can't say for certain. I've given all my findings to Roli, and they're usually pretty quick about coming up with a fix. Hopefully they'll have something for us in the next day or two.

    Thanks so much for going to such lengths to find out the problem :)

  • @Chris_Randall said:
    I can see sort of where the failure is happening, but as AUv3s are very difficult to debug, being sandboxed, I can't say for certain. I've given all my findings to Roli, and they're usually pretty quick about coming up with a fix. Hopefully they'll have something for us in the next day or two.

    Not familiar with Juce, so I don't know how much control you get. But if shit happens, it usually does so in the call to connectViewWithAU().

    Unfortunately the best way to deal with it is on the host's end. My preferred method is using the completionHandler of instantiateWithComponentDescription() to set a flag when ready. You can then use polling to check if the current instance is open for business and start instantiating the next one. Crude, but effective.

  • Although, none of this really effects my personal use of the iPad Pro... it's somewhat fascinating to marginally participate and watch the code sleuthing etc. going on here... even if I don't really have a horse in the race. :)

  • It's fascinating to me too, until I get the credit card bill for this 12.9" iPad Pro. Up until then, all I can really do is say "yep, you guys are right!"

  • edited August 2017

    @Chris_Randall said:
    It's fascinating to me too, until I get the credit card bill for this 12.9" iPad Pro. Up until then, all I can really do is say "yep, you guys are right!"

    I thought the "hack" you mentioned about opening each AU's UI, before adding another one, and being able to add many more instances... was interesting. I just tried that out of curiosity and I was in fact able to load a ton of same AU instances in the same channel of AUM, and use them without issue in a session. But, when reloading the session, they crap out at around 4-5 instances. Seems like a very good clue there.

    I'll also add that even though I was able to load 20 AUs, with 20 AU effects in Auria Pro... and it worked fine even recording... when I tried to reopen that project, it crapped out too. Had to delete the project.

  • edited August 2017

    I'm also curious about AudioBus 3. I only have Audiobus 2 and mostly use AUM... but I haven't noticed a post where this same odd AU instances behavior with iPad Pros also exists in AB3. It's pretty much the same behavior in AUM, Modstep, and BM3 for me, with better though not perfect results in Auria Pro... but wondering about AB3. Same-same?

  • @skiphunt said:
    I'm also curious about AudioBus 3. I only have Audiobus 2 and mostly use AUM... but I haven't noticed a post where this same odd AU instances behavior with iPad Pros also exists in AB3. It's pretty much the same behavior in AUM, Modstep, and BM3 for me, with better though not perfect results in Auria Pro... but wondering about AB3. Same-same?

    Ab3 doesn't have transport control. So things like replicant just don't work.

  • @gonekrazy3000 said:

    @skiphunt said:
    I'm also curious about AudioBus 3. I only have Audiobus 2 and mostly use AUM... but I haven't noticed a post where this same odd AU instances behavior with iPad Pros also exists in AB3. It's pretty much the same behavior in AUM, Modstep, and BM3 for me, with better though not perfect results in Auria Pro... but wondering about AB3. Same-same?

    Ab3 doesn't have transport control. So things like replicant just don't work.

    Yes, but it wasn't JUST AU's that require transport control that were load failing after a few instances. On page 2 of this thread I had a single AUM channel where I added as many as I could of various AUs. ApeDelay went to 6 before load failure. I think RF-1 only made it to 3. SquashIt only loaded 4 instances too. None of those AUs requires transport control, so it doesn't appear to be related specifically to that function. I'm still curious if someone else with a Pro and AB3 can see if AB3 caps out too with multiple AU loads.

    Though, it doesn't really matter that much to me at this point to be honest. Just curious.

  • @gonekrazy3000 said:

    Ab3 doesn't have transport control. So things like replicant just don't work.

    It does now. The AB3 update that was pushed 2 days ago added a transport (and Link), and Pumphouse and Replicant work fine.

  • @Chris_Randall said:

    @gonekrazy3000 said:

    Ab3 doesn't have transport control. So things like replicant just don't work.

    It does now. The AB3 update that was pushed 2 days ago added a transport (and Link), and Pumphouse and Replicant work fine.

    Can you add a ridiculous amount of AD AUs in AB3 on an iPad Pro, unlike the load failures of multi instances of the same AU that we've seen in AUM? Or, is it the same behavior?

  • edited August 2017

    I believe this image will answer your question. Note that this is on the 10.5". Out of idle curiosity, I put iOS 11b6 on the 12.9" and now AB3 doesn't run.

  • I'm not sure if this is the correct forum area to ask this question so sorry if I disrupt your flow. I've just purchased a iPad Pro 10.5 to use as a mobile studio.
    I would like to know if anyone has established optimal iOS settings for a studio environment.

  • @Iska13 said:
    I'm not sure if this is the correct forum area to ask this question so sorry if I disrupt your flow. I've just purchased a iPad Pro 10.5 to use as a mobile studio.
    I would like to know if anyone has established optimal iOS settings for a studio environment.

    When you're working on music, put it in Airplane mode, so all the background services that are constantly pinging the radio shut off. (And you can focus.) Otherwise, there's not a whole lot you can set. A general rule of thumb in all computer audio is that the higher the buffer size, the more you can do, but the more latency you have doing it. But in an iOS context where you're not playing much "live," this is probably fine.

  • @Chris_Randall said:
    I believe this image will answer your question. Note that this is on the 10.5". Out of idle curiosity, I put iOS 11b6 on the 12.9" and now AB3 doesn't run.

    and can you reopen that project?

  • Thank you very much Chris!

  • What happens if you want to go beyond instance Z?
    :#

  • beatmaker 3.0.2 update solved my problems with auv3 restoring/reloading

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