Output buffer to 64 ?

Hello,

Could it possible to also set the buffer to 64 ?
I've seen that high pro's effects offers that feature already (Sugarbytes effects for instance).
So 128 is not the best !
I also know that many apps barely implement 256.

But as a high quality app standard, shouldn't Audiobus showing the best way ?
Also it could be a way to find out badly coded apps that won't support that, and push all developers to improve their apps and standards... :)
Finally it might be good to use the futur Ipad pro to the max !

Actually, with an Ipad 4, I get 9ms of latency at 128, but I can't run more than an app, and well it's in sync but depending on apps...At 256 I get 15 ms, and I can hear the drums are not perfectly in sync all the time...

Thanks for considering :)

Would you like to be able to select a buffer size to 64 ?
  1. Would you like to be able to select a buffer size to 64 ?13 votes
    1. Yes, let's have a real pro live studio with an Ipad !
      100.00%
    2. No, who cares to be in sync ?
        0.00%

Comments

  • 22 Comments sorted by Date Votes
  • I voted yes but to be honest I've only now moved to 128 with my multi app live set up and it the responsiveness of the whole system is good. I'm not certain of this but I don't think the buffer size is the only problem with the sync on IOS. I see slaved apps doing the beat matching/catching up dance every time I pause and restart the session. I hope I'm wrong and you're right of course.

  • Ah interesting, and thanks for voting. Could you tell what Ipad you are using ? Ipad air ? air 2 ?
    Indeed, buffer size does not solve everything, I also think 128 is quite good already, but as I said let's push the standard to it's best :)
    If Sugarbytes implement 64 it's also for a good reason...
    Referencing apps that handle ultra low latencies should help us also. I have so many apps unusable because of bad midi implementation, and bad latency...Being Audiobus compatible is clearly not enough to me...

  • edited October 2015 Vote Up0

    64 would enable a better connection between player and instrument, that is currently not there, for me at least. It's not so noticable when playing guitar through the pad, but when playng keys, it often feels like playing a toy and not an instrument.

    I was always quite latency sensitive and when i was playing professionally, my gigging computer was set to 64. RME hammerfall DSP and Emagic AMT-8, state of the art stuff back then :-)

    Unfortunately some 10 years later we are stuck with subpar latency performance.. How is that for progress. My ipad air 2 is surely more powerfull than my dell laptop ever was .

  • Hopefully, IpadPro, 64, midi in AB, aux on AB will save us all ;)

  • This is so important for live musicians. Tonestack offers 64, its time audiobus did too.

  • If you launch an app with 64 buffer (tonestack for example) then launch audiobus it will put audiobus into 64 buffer latency. Kind of awkward workaround but it Forces other apps that normally don't offer 64 into that Mode :smiley:

  • @Panthemusicalgoat said:
    If you launch an app with 64 buffer (tonestack for example) then launch audiobus it will put audiobus into 64 buffer latency. Kind of awkward workaround but it Forces other apps that normally don't offer 64 into that Mode :smiley:

    Wow, that's pretty cool. I'll take it for a spin tomorrow but I doubt my live setup will hold.

  • Hmm well...I must say that the buffer size to 64 for a live does not matter that much at the end...for my needs at least !
    I also don't really record instruments live, but play internal synths.
    Link and IAA are more helpful to stay in sync for that.
    My ipads pro are set to 256 into AUM to have something responsive enough with multiple apps running...
    Once again, I don't record/playback live instruments, except a bit of voice, and one synth...
    For a guitarist or a live looper guy, I guess it won't be ok.
    Maybe IOS 11, full 64 bits will bring buffer at 64 ? (and I'll have sex with 64 virgins during the next 64 years :D )

  • I usually launch AUM first at 64 samples . But Air2 can't handle Effectrix, Turnado , ToneStack, iVoxel, loopy easily. The trick is not switching apps.

  • I'm currently using 128 with turnado, ts, VirEffX, Samplr, loopy, Aum, AB and all is sweet, not a glitch. I'm gonna try 64 but I doubt I'll be risking it live as I'm pretty happy with 128.

  • @supadom what's your sound card ? RME or something ?

  • @crony said:
    @supadom what's your sound card ? RME or something ?

    My presumed OCD doesn't allow me to live without a backup so I couldn't ford having 2 x expensive pieces of gear. Thus I'm an AKAI/Arturia fan/poster boy.

    Akai EIE.
    Akai lpd 8
    Arturia minilab
    Arturia beatstep mk1

  • I just tried 64 and it started complaining even before I loaded all of the apps in my AB preset. I'll sure try it again after AB3/Loopy3 come out.

  • Hmm...Impressive...I might try again now that I've cleaned a lot all my setup...

  • iirc I've used 64 samples (1.4 ms) to monitor vocal recordings in Multitrack DAW.
    Even with no effects engaged it wasn't guaranteed to be click free (I mean 100% free and wouldn't accept even a mini glitch every couple of minutes).
    Sugar Bytes effects are low class, low power. Maybe nice in some contexts, but definitely way lower than a current IOS CPU allows. Holderness and Apesoft/Amazing Noises are a different league (for example).

    Low latency isn't a recording quality benchmark - you want it sample accurate and that means zero displacement anyway. Usually it's the job of the DAW to compensate accordingly.
    As different plugins have different requirements, the DAW may delay the live signal a bit more to achieve a perfect mixdown.

  • I recommend* to set the highest acceptable buffer size, not the lowest. Because then, as you know, you'll have more performance power, you can load more instruments and effects without rendering to audio. And, even more important, your system is much more stable. If you run a system constantly at its limits you will encounter hickups and even crashes regularly. If you leave some spare resources, the system will remain stable even after long sessions and occasional peaks.

    256 samples buffer size is sufficient. It provides low enough latency for real-time playing and recording. If resources are limited (like on a tablet device and in a large project) I don't hesitate to go to 512 buffer size. It's still quite good for real-time playing.

    Using buffer size settings below 128 is only a waste of resources, especially on a mobile device. You gain nothing because you won't hear a difference. You only lose performance power. It has become a bit of a common misconception that lower buffer sizes are more "pro". In fact it is rather the other way round. Only greenhorns complain about sound crackles without checking or knowing about the buffer sizes.

    Well, in the end there are no rules. One can do it the less clever way and may need to buy new stuff every year, or one can learn how to optimise available devices and resources. And I would say that the latter is more "pro", more focussed on production, less distracted from gear. (and gear acquisition, gear replacement, forum discussions, etc. This all uses a lot of time; time you lose)

    *actually this used to be common knowledge. Everybody knew that from own experience.

  • @supadom said:
    I just tried 64 and it started complaining even before I loaded all of the apps in my AB preset. I'll sure try it again after AB3/Loopy3 come out.

    It's just a warning....ignore it!

  • @Phil999 said:
    I recommend* to set the highest acceptable buffer size, not the lowest. Because then, as you know, you'll have more performance power, you can load more instruments and effects without rendering to audio. And, even more important, your system is much more stable. If you run a system constantly at its limits you will encounter hickups and even crashes regularly. If you leave some spare resources, the system will remain stable even after long sessions and occasional peaks.

    256 samples buffer size is sufficient. It provides low enough latency for real-time playing and recording. If resources are limited (like on a tablet device and in a large project) I don't hesitate to go to 512 buffer size. It's still quite good for real-time playing.

    Using buffer size settings below 128 is only a waste of resources, especially on a mobile device. You gain nothing because you won't hear a difference. You only lose performance power. It has become a bit of a common misconception that lower buffer sizes are more "pro". In fact it is rather the other way round. Only greenhorns complain about sound crackles without checking or knowing about the buffer sizes.

    Well, in the end there are no rules. One can do it the less clever way and may need to buy new stuff every year, or one can learn how to optimise available devices and resources. And I would say that the latter is more "pro", more focussed on production, less distracted from gear. (and gear acquisition, gear replacement, forum discussions, etc. This all uses a lot of time; time you lose)

    *actually this used to be common knowledge. Everybody knew that from own experience.

    Pros want lowest possible buffer size because it offers lowest latency, and pros want lowest latency so that they can get things synced more accurately. Even 10ms latency can be way too much for some stuff that those pros do.

  • @Korakios said:

    @supadom said:
    I just tried 64 and it started complaining even before I loaded all of the apps in my AB preset. I'll sure try it again after AB3/Loopy3 come out.

    It's just a warning....ignore it!

    Latency crackles don't suit my sound ;)

  • edited February 2017 Vote Up0

    @Phil999 +1 On my first live setup, I wanted to use Loopy and make loops on the fly with synths.
    That's why I was pushing to 64...Because even with 128, I could hear some sync problems with on the fly sampling....
    Then, I stopped using Loopy...Then 256 was fine and stable...
    So it really depends of your needs.

  • edited February 2017 Vote Up0

    When using Logic on Mac, I run anything not related to capturing precise human input at 512.

    When I record guitar or vocal, I freeze all other tracks, and drop the buffer to 32.

    When playing midi to a synth, I can get by with a larger buffer, since midi is faster than audio conversion so the roundtrip is actually less than the buffer indicates on the imput side, and some synths are more cpu hungry than others, Alchemy being an example.

    If I'm merely editing a piano roll or playing with automation, then back to 512.

  • I was experimenting on Linux with an old Maudio 24/96. Triggering some drum sounds from MPD with 32 buffer 96 sr. First time in my life I heard the drum sound fist, and then the noise from the pads (using headphones).
    It was a very nice experience.

Sign In or Register to comment.