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Alchemy presets in Logic Pro

In a couple of the reviews I've seen that all the presets for Alchemy are included, but that seems very much to not be the case AFAIK. In fact quite a few of the presets that are in GarageBand for iOS are not present in Logic.

For example in GB there is a whole section of vocal-like sounds, with presets such as Art Duo, Girls Choir, Cosmic Boys Choir etc... Most of these are missing from Logic.

I've downloaded all the content of course.

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Comments

  • edited May 2023

    All of those presets are there for me in Logic's Alchemy. In fact the choirs (particularly the female choir) are among my most cherished patches on any platform.

    Either you've seen something you shouldn't (yet) have seen, or others have done what I've mentioned here:

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/55805/for-those-who-use-both-the-desktop-and-ipad-versions-of-logic#latest

  • I do hope we'll get more downloadable content...
    ...would not mind having the entire ~70GB 'archive' on my iPad, miss a lot of the sounds I have in Desktop Logic.

  • @richardyot said:
    In a couple of the reviews I've seen that all the presets for Alchemy are included, but that seems very much to not be the case AFAIK. In fact quite a few of the presets that are in GarageBand for iOS are not present in Logic.

    For example in GB there is a whole section of vocal-like sounds, with presets such as Art Duo, Girls Choir, Cosmic Boys Choir etc... Most of these are missing from Logic.

    I've downloaded all the content of course.

    I have the feeling that Apple want to minimise the first download and issue regularly sounds pack that include them as Apple prefer to release sound packs now. Is it realistic ?

  • @BerlinFx said:

    >

    I have the feeling that Apple want to minimise the first download and issue regularly sounds pack that include them as Apple prefer to release sound packs now. Is it realistic ?

    Yes, and I think that is what will happen sooner or later.

    I think Apple also need to think about how to share presets and other content.
    Some project management related house-keeping is needed too (ie. delete files that are no longer being used by the project).
    And I'd really would love to see an optional 'ask to save changes' when closing a project.

    There is a LOT that can be added, but seriously it's been out like what, 2 days and it's only V1.0.

    For now I'm looking forward to WWDC'23 which is bound to bring some audio related news to iPadOS17...

  • @Samu said:

    @BerlinFx said:

    >

    I have the feeling that Apple want to minimise the first download and issue regularly sounds pack that include them as Apple prefer to release sound packs now. Is it realistic ?

    Yes, and I think that is what will happen sooner or later.

    I think Apple also need to think about how to share presets and other content.
    Some project management related house-keeping is needed too (ie. delete files that are no longer being used by the project).
    And I'd really would love to see an optional 'ask to save changes' when closing a project.

    There is a LOT that can be added, but seriously it's been out like what, 2 days and it's only V1.0.

    For now I'm looking forward to WWDC'23 which is bound to bring some audio related news to iPadOS17...

    LOL. YES! Out for two days and they have really created a maelstrom of activity among both new users (and testers) and among developers. It's exciting seeing so much feedback and discussion on software with such a long pedigree, now reborn as new on iPads. :)

  • @Samu said:
    Some project management related house-keeping is needed too (ie. delete files that are no longer being used by the project).

    Indeed! This becomes even more of a consideration for those of us on the lowest tier for storage.

  • Yes I’m missing a few sounds from GarageBand. It’s mainly the ones that are not synthesized. Logic Pro for iPad says I need to open Mac logic for editing but unless I brought them over in a project they are not in Logic Pro for iPad which seems weird. GB had some good sounds that didn’t follow over.

  • @Samu said:
    I do hope we'll get more downloadable content...
    ...would not mind having the entire ~70GB 'archive' on my iPad, miss a lot of the sounds I have in Desktop Logic.

    Same.

  • @richardyot Did you manage to track down those presets? The two I didn’t recognise turned up by typing them directly into Alchemy’s browser’s search field. If they’re not there, perhaps you have a couple of banks that are still left to install.

  • It seems like a lot of the missing content is multi sampler instruments, and of course the multi sampler itself very much has the feel of something where the finished product didn't make the deadline for inclusion in the 1.0 release. I'm hoping both of these things will be fixed in a 1.1 release fairly soon.

  • I don’t mean to sound like a total dud, but how the hell do you even load Alchemy? Is it Sample Alchemy? I mean it’s not the end of the world, but I have yet to even see the interface I’m expecting lol..

  • @icsleepers said:
    I don’t mean to sound like a total dud, but how the hell do you even load Alchemy? Is it Sample Alchemy? I mean it’s not the end of the world, but I have yet to even see the interface I’m expecting lol..

    It's a stripped-down UI, similar to what you see in GarageBand. Disappointing to me, but I'm holding out hope they'll eventually include a "full" Alchemy UI. I think it'll play any Alchemy preset, but of course the options for sound design are very limited.

  • Yeah but I mean, I haven’t found one instrument yet that even looks like the GarageBand Alchemy lol. I must be doing it wrong…

  • edited May 2023

    @mjm1138 said:

    @icsleepers said:
    I don’t mean to sound like a total dud, but how the hell do you even load Alchemy? Is it Sample Alchemy? I mean it’s not the end of the world, but I have yet to even see the interface I’m expecting lol..

    It's a stripped-down UI, similar to what you see in GarageBand. Disappointing to me, but I'm holding out hope they'll eventually include a "full" Alchemy UI. I think it'll play any Alchemy preset, but of course the options for sound design are very limited.

    Given I’m one of the OG “Logic's never coming to the iPad” guys, maybe take this with a large pinch of salt…

    …I don’t 'Full' Alchemy, at least as it exists on the Mac, is coming.

    When I look at Sample Alchemy, I see the sound-design elements that would ordinarily be in Alchemy, mixed in with some elements from Samplr. It contains Granular, Additive and Spectral, just like Alchemy.

    Why would they go to effort to create a whole new instrument with those elements if they were going to give us Alchemy? If their intention was to mix Alchemy and Samplr, wouldn’t it just have been easier to add them to Alchemy? Perhaps not. But even if they had to keep 'Samplr' apart, why would they double-up on the rest? And why would they call it Sample Alchemy?

    I think one only has to take a look at what they did with 'Chromaverb' and certain other bizarre design choices to get an idea why they might’ve taken this alternative direction. But perhaps there’s some other reason why Alchemy would not work in LPiOS. Either way, it looks like they’ve pulled Alchemy apart, stripped it right back, and split it between the player and the sampler.

    I hope I'm wrong…'cause full Alchemy on the iPad.

  • @icsleepers said:
    Yeah but I mean, I haven’t found one instrument yet that even looks like the GarageBand Alchemy lol. I must be doing it wrong…

    Add a new track.
    On the dialog box that pops up, click the little blue ellipsis on MIDI
    Go to the drop down for Patch/Instrument on the next dialog
    It’s under Instruments—> Synthesizer

  • @el_bo said:

    @mjm1138 said:

    @icsleepers said:
    I don’t mean to sound like a total dud, but how the hell do you even load Alchemy? Is it Sample Alchemy? I mean it’s not the end of the world, but I have yet to even see the interface I’m expecting lol..

    It's a stripped-down UI, similar to what you see in GarageBand. Disappointing to me, but I'm holding out hope they'll eventually include a "full" Alchemy UI. I think it'll play any Alchemy preset, but of course the options for sound design are very limited.

    Given I’m one of the OG “Logic's never coming to the iPad” guys, maybe take this with a large pinch of salt…

    …I don’t 'Full' Alchemy, at least as it exists on the Mac, is coming.

    When I look at Sample Alchemy, I see the sound-design elements that would ordinarily be in Alchemy, mixed in with some elements from Samplr. It contains Granular, Additive and Spectral, just like Alchemy.

    Why would they go to effort to create a whole new instrument with those elements if they were going to give us Alchemy? If their intention was to mix Alchemy and Samplr, wouldn’t it just have been easier to add them to Alchemy? Perhaps not. But even if they had to keep 'Samplr' apart, why would they double-up on the rest? And why would they call it Sample Alchemy?

    I think one only has to take a look at what they did with 'Chromaverb' and certain other bizarre design choices to get an idea why they might’ve taken this alternative direction. But perhaps there’s some other reason why Alchemy would not work in LPiOS. Either way, it looks like they’ve pulled Alchemy apart, stripped it right back, and split it between the player and the sampler.

    I hope I'm wrong…'cause full Alchemy on the iPad.

    Sample alchemy is good, but it’s a different thing, with no wavetable or subtractive oscillators. Alchemy has a long history and is their flagship synth on the desktop. Maybe you’re right, but honestly I hope not.

  • @Samu said:
    I do hope we'll get more downloadable content...
    ...would not mind having the entire ~70GB 'archive' on my iPad, miss a lot of the sounds I have in Desktop Logic.

    +1! Cheers, Samu

  • @richardyot That entire vocal section of Alchemy's presets are missing for me too in LP but is (of course) there in GB.

  • @el_bo said:
    @richardyot Did you manage to track down those presets? The two I didn’t recognise turned up by typing them directly into Alchemy’s browser’s search field. If they’re not there, perhaps you have a couple of banks that are still left to install.

    They don't appear to be there.

    In Logic Pro on iPad if you search for "Art Duo", or "Girls Choir" nothing comes up. These are presets that are in GB though, so it's a shame they're not there in Logic.

    (I think you might be talking about the desktop version of Logic, but I don't own a Mac so the iPad version is my only reference).

  • @BillS said:
    @richardyot That entire vocal section of Alchemy's presets are missing for me too in LP but is (of course) there in GB.

    I got outside of GB gear vocal samples including choirs one so It is ok as I can use them in LP. LP is more in a pro like worflow where you use samples external banks or your own homemade sample bank , very different approach than GB.

    LP ios push you more toward a pro worflow type as it target no beginners wide audience like GB but a more hobbyist with music experience and Pro producers or at least people that want to step up to a more pro ways to do music on IPad.

    It is not a daw for everyone and some of us doesn’t want a pro workflow , some will be happier with AUM, LoopyPro, Drambo or even only GB or Cubasis and I respect their choice as this music community is about respect of freedom. It is just a tool , it’s this one you can do good or very bad music as with all tools.

  • @richardyot said:

    @el_bo said:
    @richardyot Did you manage to track down those presets? The two I didn’t recognise turned up by typing them directly into Alchemy’s browser’s search field. If they’re not there, perhaps you have a couple of banks that are still left to install.

    They don't appear to be there.

    In Logic Pro on iPad if you search for "Art Duo", or "Girls Choir" nothing comes up. These are presets that are in GB though, so it's a shame they're not there in Logic.

    (I think you might be talking about the desktop version of Logic, but I don't own a Mac so the iPad version is my only reference).

    "I think you might be talking about the desktop version of Logic"

    Indeed I am! 1000 apologies, man! Completely mis-read your original post, and thought you were also talking about the desktop version :(

    So strange that they'd be in GB and not LPiOS. Hopefully they do release these extra presets and extra instruments (If they are hoping people will buy new devices with more storage, offering them another 70GB of content might be a good place to start).

  • edited May 2023

    There is extra GarageBand content to download that isn’t (or wasn’t for me) downloaded initially even though I selected the option to get everything. Might have some of the stuff you’re looking for?

  • @mjm1138 said:

    @el_bo said:

    @mjm1138 said:

    @icsleepers said:
    I don’t mean to sound like a total dud, but how the hell do you even load Alchemy? Is it Sample Alchemy? I mean it’s not the end of the world, but I have yet to even see the interface I’m expecting lol..

    It's a stripped-down UI, similar to what you see in GarageBand. Disappointing to me, but I'm holding out hope they'll eventually include a "full" Alchemy UI. I think it'll play any Alchemy preset, but of course the options for sound design are very limited.

    Given I’m one of the OG “Logic's never coming to the iPad” guys, maybe take this with a large pinch of salt…

    …I don’t 'Full' Alchemy, at least as it exists on the Mac, is coming.

    When I look at Sample Alchemy, I see the sound-design elements that would ordinarily be in Alchemy, mixed in with some elements from Samplr. It contains Granular, Additive and Spectral, just like Alchemy.

    Why would they go to effort to create a whole new instrument with those elements if they were going to give us Alchemy? If their intention was to mix Alchemy and Samplr, wouldn’t it just have been easier to add them to Alchemy? Perhaps not. But even if they had to keep 'Samplr' apart, why would they double-up on the rest? And why would they call it Sample Alchemy?

    I think one only has to take a look at what they did with 'Chromaverb' and certain other bizarre design choices to get an idea why they might’ve taken this alternative direction. But perhaps there’s some other reason why Alchemy would not work in LPiOS. Either way, it looks like they’ve pulled Alchemy apart, stripped it right back, and split it between the player and the sampler.

    I hope I'm wrong…'cause full Alchemy on the iPad.

    Sample alchemy is good, but it’s a different thing, with no wavetable or subtractive oscillators. Alchemy has a long history and is their flagship synth on the desktop. Maybe you’re right, but honestly I hope not.

    Perhaps they're happy enough with how Subtractive and Wavetable are already represented elsewhere in Logic. Who knows? But it seems a bit more plausible to me than them doubling up on sampling functions, Granular, Additive and Spectral, spreading them over three separate Alchemy offerings.

    Guess we're just gonna have to wait an see ;)

  • @SuperNiCd said:

    @icsleepers said:
    Yeah but I mean, I haven’t found one instrument yet that even looks like the GarageBand Alchemy lol. I must be doing it wrong…

    Add a new track.
    On the dialog box that pops up, click the little blue ellipsis on MIDI
    Go to the drop down for Patch/Instrument on the next dialog
    It’s under Instruments—> Synthesizer

    Nice, got it! Still figuring stuff out haha. There is definitely A LOT of presets missing it seems, for now.

  • One workaround is to create a new project in GB, add some tracks, each with a preset you like, then open that same project in Logic and save the patches from there. They will show up in your user patches for Alchemy.

  • @richardyot said:
    One workaround is to create a new project in GB, add some tracks, each with a preset you like, then open that same project in Logic and save the patches from there. They will show up in your user patches for Alchemy.

    That’s exactly what was starting to do. Especially with all the saved ones I created in GB. This is great tip

  • I’ve ran into a few older “live loop” projects in GB that cannot be opened in Logic Pro. I wonder what gives?

    Ok, I’ve got a question…

    Now this is from someone who’s never even owned a Mac, or any apple computers ever, other than iPhones and iPads.

    What’s so special about Alchemy anyway? Do we not have any other synths on the iPad already that can do what Alchemy does?

    I mean, I’ve had the garage band version forever, and yeah, it he’d some cool presets, but I don’t recall hearing anything that couldn’t be made elsewhere.

  • edited May 2023

    @Edward_Alexander said:
    What’s so special about Alchemy anyway?

    Alchemy was a much-loved, top-tier sound-design monster, until Apple got their hands on it. Then it became all those things, but free in Logic…and has since been improving.

    It might not do anything revolutionary, but it does so much in one synth playground, and does a lot of it very well. Have a quick skip around these videos, to get an idea of what it can do and why it’s unlikely LPiOS will ever get it in its desktop form. The second video is the 1st of a 13 part course:

  • Thanks @el_bo, I’m at work at the moment and can’t watch the videos right now, but will definitely check them out later.

    Looking at this description on Apple’s page though, and the diagram of the signal path, doesn’t seem too complicated. Actually looks like something that could be built in Drambo (Dare I say), or… Buttersynth?

    https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/logicpro/lgsi2618652a/mac

    “Up to” Four “sources”, be it sampler, VA, Additive, granular, or spectral? (I had to look that one up; and it appears to be some type of modeling with Additive sine wave harmonics and white noise elements).

    Each of these sources has three independent filters for per voice modulation, then runs through an effects send(s), then through the two main filters (serial or parallel), and more effects sends before heading to output.

    So why don’t we just build our own “Alchemy”? I know the “big D” is capable of the “morphing”.

  • @klownshed said:
    There is extra GarageBand content to download that isn’t (or wasn’t for me) downloaded initially even though I selected the option to get everything. Might have some of the stuff you’re looking for?

    Well spotted! That must have just been added. Hmm, I downloaded it, but still no art duo or girls choir presets appearing in alchemy or anywhere else

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