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SOLVED: Is there a trick to getting the iRig Blueboard to run with Soft Drummer?

Pulling my hair out here!

If I don't connect to the Blueboard app in proprietary mode, the iPad does not see the pedal..when in proprietary mode Soft Drummer does not see the blueboard!

I have the blueboard set with the CC commands I want to use, and those matching CC's are set in Soft drummer, and the MIDI channel matches...

arrggghhh, what am I missing? I've tried it in BT Mode 1 and Mode 2, neither works as when it is out of proprietary mode, it cannot be seen as a valid BT device.

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Comments

  • Download Midimittr app. It will connect to your pedal midi. But i don’t know if it only works with Bluetooth.

  • @Tones4Christ said:
    Download Midimittr app. It will connect to your pedal midi. But i don’t know if it only works with Bluetooth.

    afaik, the iRig blueboard doesn't work correctly with it.

  • haha, and the final irony - the blueboard works in Camelot, but the Lumbeat apps don't :D

  • wimwim
    edited January 2022

    Soft Drummer doesn't have a BLE Midi connect dialog. So, you need to use something else to establish the connection. Once you get a connection going Soft Drummer will see it as a midi device.

    Anything will do, AUM, Audiobus, Korg's free Bluetooth MIDI Connect app, or MidiMittr (yes, it does work) or any other app or DAW that has a BLE Midi connect dialog. Once connected I think you can shut down the app that made the connection if you don't need it.

    You will have to do this each time you need to connect to the Blueboard.

  • edited January 2022

    @wim said:
    Soft Drummer doesn't have a BLE Midi connect dialog. So, you need to use something else to establish the connection. Once you get a connection going Soft Drummer will see it as a midi device.

    Anything will do, AUM, Audiobus, Korg's free Bluetooth MIDI Connect app, or MidiMittr (yes, it does work) or any other app or DAW that has a BLE Midi connect dialog. Once connected I think you can shut down the app that made the connection if you don't need it.

    You will have to do this each time you need to connect to the Blueboard.

    Thanks wim....I did already try it in midimttr, hence my comment...but thinking on it I might still have been in proprietary mode when I did. I'll give ti another try.
    I have not tried it yet, but I have a feeling the same (no connection) will apply to rock, afro, and jazz drummer apps too.

    EDIT: yes I didn't think it worked. Midimttr sees it as a device but will not connect to it.

  • @pax-eterna said:

    @wim said:
    Soft Drummer doesn't have a BLE Midi connect dialog. So, you need to use something else to establish the connection. Once you get a connection going Soft Drummer will see it as a midi device.

    Anything will do, AUM, Audiobus, Korg's free Bluetooth MIDI Connect app, or MidiMittr (yes, it does work) or any other app or DAW that has a BLE Midi connect dialog. Once connected I think you can shut down the app that made the connection if you don't need it.

    You will have to do this each time you need to connect to the Blueboard.

    Thanks wim....I did already try it in midimttr, hence my comment...but thinking on it I might still have been in proprietary mode when I did. I'll give ti another try.
    I have not tried it yet, but I have a feeling the same (no connection) will apply to rock, afro, and jazz drummer apps too.

    EDIT: yes I didn't think it worked. Midimttr sees it as a device but will not connect to it.

    Have you tried the other options, like AUM or Audiobus? Remember, it's not about actually using those apps in your playing. It's just about accessing the BLE connection dialog, which Soft Drummer doesn't happen to implement.

  • figured it, thanks all - seems it DOES work with Lumbeat apps (not Afro Drummer though - no CC mode available) in IK Proprietary mode.
    I thought it had to be in CC mode (or Mode 2 according to the manual). In the prop mode Lumbeat app saw the device and allowed the changes to be made.

    Afro Drummer is setup with no options for CC commands. It is still just notes, so I will need to contact the developer to ask about that...not that I'll get any response :)

  • You could use a StreamByter script to convert CCs into notes, provided Afro Drummer either provides a Virtual MIDI port, or can connect to a port. You can use Audiobus or AUM to host StreamByter, or use MidiFire, which has StreamByter built-in.

    It's just a matter of knowing which CC you want to convert to which note, knowing whether the buttons send CC on press and release or only one, and deciding how to handle Note Off messages.

  • edited January 2022

    hmmm, thanks UD I'll have a look at that. Afro is important for those small cafe style gigs for a bit of light percussion sitting under the keys :)

    I guess I could also save two IK Blueboard setups, one that uses the CC's and the other that uses PC commands - then quickly open the app to change the Blueboard preset. Bit of a pain, but workable in a pinch.

    Then again, (and I'll need to check on this) I could setup a MIDI command send from the iPad chart app to change the Blueboard preset...I'll report back if I find something. EDIT: Nope won't work as the mode (PC or CC) is a Blueboard system setting-not saveable with the preset.

    Ok back to having a look at Streambyter.

  • @pax-eterna said:
    figured it, thanks all - seems it DOES work with Lumbeat apps (not Afro Drummer though - no CC mode available) in IK Proprietary mode.
    I thought it had to be in CC mode (or Mode 2 according to the manual). In the prop mode Lumbeat app saw the device and allowed the changes to be made.

    Afro Drummer is setup with no options for CC commands. It is still just notes, so I will need to contact the developer to ask about that...not that I'll get any response :)

    The Blueboard has a notes mode -- and it works with midimttr. If you need notes, why not use them for all the LUMBeats apps instead of CCs for some and notes for others? You wouldn't need any scripts

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @pax-eterna said:
    figured it, thanks all - seems it DOES work with Lumbeat apps (not Afro Drummer though - no CC mode available) in IK Proprietary mode.
    I thought it had to be in CC mode (or Mode 2 according to the manual). In the prop mode Lumbeat app saw the device and allowed the changes to be made.

    Afro Drummer is setup with no options for CC commands. It is still just notes, so I will need to contact the developer to ask about that...not that I'll get any response :)

    The Blueboard has a notes mode -- and it works with midimttr. If you need notes, why not use them for all the LUMBeats apps instead of CCs for some and notes for others? You wouldn't need any scripts

    Because I use the whole keyboard (for bass and keys) using notes means all these things will get triggered when I play tunes.

  • @pax-eterna said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @pax-eterna said:
    figured it, thanks all - seems it DOES work with Lumbeat apps (not Afro Drummer though - no CC mode available) in IK Proprietary mode.
    I thought it had to be in CC mode (or Mode 2 according to the manual). In the prop mode Lumbeat app saw the device and allowed the changes to be made.

    Afro Drummer is setup with no options for CC commands. It is still just notes, so I will need to contact the developer to ask about that...not that I'll get any response :)

    The Blueboard has a notes mode -- and it works with midimttr. If you need notes, why not use them for all the LUMBeats apps instead of CCs for some and notes for others? You wouldn't need any scripts

    Because I use the whole keyboard (for bass and keys) using notes means all these things will get triggered when I play tunes.

    You can route things so that the blueboard notes only go to the LUMBeat app and not apps with notes.

  • edited January 2022

    Seems the plan is not going to work anyway. As I will be using all three apps (Soft, Jazz and Rock) at the same gigs AND as they are all IAA (meaning they are all open in the background) when I have one set in AUM, when I press the play pedal all three apps start to play. Even if in AUM only one is setup. Even if I change then AUM preset as it is IAA they (the Lumbeat apps) stay open in the background.

    If they are not open in the background, AUM will not load the app, it shows the round app image in red and asks to reload AFTER opening it in the backgorund.

    These REALLY need to be modified to AUv3!!! in IAA it is only really suitable for the studio or for recording - not for live work!

    A good example of why AUV3 works so well, and why all the developers are migrating to it...Even Korg is now :)

  • @pax-eterna said:
    Seems the plan is not going to work anyway. As I will be using all three apps (Soft, Jazz and Rock) at the same gigs AND as they are all IAA (meaning they are all open in the background) when I have one set in AUM, when I press the play pedal all three apps start to play. Even if in AUM only one is setup. Even if I change then AUM preset as it is IAA they (the Lumbeat apps) stay open in the background.

    If they are not open in the background, AUM will not load the app, it shows the round app image in red and asks to reload AFTER opening it in the backgorund.

    These REALLY need to be modified to AUv3!!! in IAA it is only really suitable for the studio or for recording - not for live work!

    A good example of why AUV3 works so well, and why all the developers are migrating to it...Even Korg is now :)

    Load each in the background before loading into AUM (a general best practice with IAAs). Rather than have the LUMBeats apps listen directly to the blueboard, route the blueboard through AUM to the LUMBeats apps. There are a number of ways that you could set things up to control which of those apps gets the MIDI.

  • wimwim
    edited January 2022

    @espiegel123 said:

    @pax-eterna said:
    Seems the plan is not going to work anyway. As I will be using all three apps (Soft, Jazz and Rock) at the same gigs AND as they are all IAA (meaning they are all open in the background) when I have one set in AUM, when I press the play pedal all three apps start to play. Even if in AUM only one is setup. Even if I change then AUM preset as it is IAA they (the Lumbeat apps) stay open in the background.

    If they are not open in the background, AUM will not load the app, it shows the round app image in red and asks to reload AFTER opening it in the backgorund.

    These REALLY need to be modified to AUv3!!! in IAA it is only really suitable for the studio or for recording - not for live work!

    A good example of why AUV3 works so well, and why all the developers are migrating to it...Even Korg is now :)

    Load each in the background before loading into AUM (a general best practice with IAAs). Rather than have the LUMBeats apps listen directly to the blueboard, route the blueboard through AUM to the LUMBeats apps. There are a number of ways that you could set things up to control which of those apps gets the MIDI.

    I think the problem is the LumBeats apps are starting playback on AUM transport start whether they have midi routed to them or not.

    I’m guessing that you have Ableton Link Start/Stop enabled in the LumBeats apps. If you turn Start/Stop off I think it’ll fix that problem.

    You can disable Link too, but then the apps only seem to follow tempo changes when AUM Play is started, not while playing.

  • wimwim
    edited January 2022

    Btw, if you’re using AUM, it has the BLE Midi connect dialog built-in. No need to use Midimittr to connect the Blueboard. AUM can also solve your routing problems by routing the Blueboard’s output to only the app you need at the time.

    I’m confident there’s a way to make it all work if you want to methodically pursue it. (Though I don’t think I’d take the risk of relying on three apps such as that loaded all the time in addition to everything else in a live setting myself. 😬 )

  • thanks espeigel123 and wim....yes I might need to alter the MO and routing via AUM instead. Makes more sense really.

    I'll run a trial show at home and leave it all running for a few hours and see how it goes. (re the running three apps)

    Just as a diversion, hahaha, I was trying to to the iBassist thing and "sync" it with the drum apps (and set it exactly as described in the Soundtestroom video tute) but it doesn't work either....so it's been a bit of a wasted few hours.

    I'll go back to sq 1, and start with AUM and go from there.

    Thanks again :)

  • @wim said:
    Btw, if you’re using AUM, it has the BLE Midi connect dialog built-in. No need to use Midimittr to connect the Blueboard. AUM can also solve your routing problems by routing the Blueboard’s output to only the app you need at the time.

    I’m confident there’s a way to make it all work if you want to methodically pursue it. (Though I don’t think I’d take the risk of relying on three apps such as that loaded all the time in addition to everything else in a live setting myself. 😬 )

    Two things attracted me to this thread. Firstly, I’m vitally interested in how to route my BlueBoard (BB) midi output. Secondly was @wim ‘s comment “ I’m confident there’s a way to make it all work if you want to methodically pursue it

    Let me know if you think I’m highjacking here and I’ll delete and re-post anew...

    Anyway, with a lot of help from @uncledave , @espiegel123 and @wim , et al, I’ve pretty much arrived at my “perfect” live setup. Midi Guitar 2 (MG2) > AudioKit Synth One (S1) (as standalones) and AudioKit AR-909 (within AudioBus 3 (AB3)). All this inside iOS 15.3.1 on my iPhone.

    Using the BB I need to:

    1. Select (or scroll through) my favourite presets on MG2,
    2. Select (or scroll through) my favourite presets on S1,
    3. Scroll through drum patterns on the AR-909,
    4. Start and stop the drum machine, and
    5. Control drum machine volume.

    With invaluable help from those stalwarts mentioned above I have been able to realise this dream.

    However, there is one critical remaining routing bug in the system that I had assumed would be easily ironed out by splitting my midi commands (from BB) into separate BB banks with each bank sending on a separate channel.

    The issue in question is that, BB doesn’t seem to let you assign different channels to the various banks (you can save a separate name for each bank but NOT a separate channel). You can choose which channel BB uses, but it will only use that channel.

    Hence, if I send a PC message from BB to select a preset on MG2, it will also change the preset on S1.

    As a temporary workaround, for live gigs, I’m currently saving my MG2 & S1 presets in mutually harmonious pairings, but, as you can imagine, this is tedious, time consuming and restrictive. Having said that, since I only need a very small number of presets, it works surprisingly well.

    However, I’ve not yet introduced the drum machine into live work and this is where it becomes an intolerable problem since there’s no way to synchronise the needed constant drum pattern scrolling with relatively stable MG2 & S1 presets.

    MY REAL QUESTIONS are:

    1. Is there any way, on the BB to assign a different channel to each bank, or if not, then,
    2. Is there another workaround that would achieve the same thing, or
    3. Do I need to re-think the entire architecture of my setup?

      Many thanks if you’ve got this far...

  • IMO, the best way to handle this is to use a script to modify the inputs from the hardware. Configure the hardware with a reasonable default, probably CC on/off on a unused MIDI channel. Route those messages to the script (only), which modifies them as needed and forwards them on different channels as required. Then you never need to fiddle with the hardware setup, and you can change the scripting easily. You can even use different scripts for different situations; practice vs live, etc.

    Depending on the situation, that script can live in AUM, Audiobus, or even MidiFire. They can all route to multiple ports/apps. You could use separate scripts to serve separate controller buttons, feed the output from one script into 2 or more others, etc. And you can use special inputs, like a 2-button hold, to execute special features, like a mode shift, or a master reset.

    This approach is based on taking a system view of the whole problem, instead of trying to solve individual problems in a patchwork. It can untangle a lot of the knots we create by focussing on single specific requirements.

  • wimwim
    edited February 2022

    @MikeFloutier said:
    MY REAL QUESTIONS are:

    1. Is there any way, on the BB to assign a different channel to each bank, or if not, then,

    Can you clarify what you mean by banks? Is that something in the BlueBoard app? I've never used it, but can look into it if that's how you're setting up "Banks" but I don't want to go there if you mean something else.

    1. Is there another workaround that would achieve the same thing, or
    2. Do I need to re-think the entire architecture of my setup?

      Many thanks if you’ve got this far...

    The second two questions are dependent on the first, so I'll wait to hear more.

    Starting a separate thread for this might be more effective since the original post was on a somewhat different issue and since the thread is marked "solved". But that's up to you. I'm happy to try to help here as well.

  • @MikeFloutier - after looking at the BlueBoard app description, I feel like this must be what you're using if you're referring to Banks. If so then I really would suggest starting a new thread since this is likely to be pretty specific to the BlueBoard app.

  • Many thanks @uncledave and @wim ,

    Dave, I’ve printed out your reply and will be trying to get my head round these ideas for my situation. Will probably have some questions in due course.

    ———

    Wim, the Banks I referred to are on the BlueBoard App. The App is used in BlueBoard’s legacy proprietary mode. The App can either send PC or CC messages. eg. In PC mode, button “A” on the hardware (when the App is in “Bank 1 setting), will cause the App to output PC01, button “B” gives PC 02 etc.

    As there are only 4 buttons on the hardware, you get it to output PC5-8 by switching to Bank 2 etc - by holding button “A” for 3 seconds.

    In this legacy mode, you have the ability to send any PC or CC messages AND, perhaps more importantly you get to choose the channel.

    In the two new BTLE modes, the BlueBoard hardware can send midi messages directly to apps. HOWEVER, there are limitations:

    1. There seems to be no choice of channel,
    2. There are two new modes “note” and “CC”. In Note mode, it outputs C3, D3, E3 & F3. In CC mode it outputs CC20,21,22&23. These work fine for midi learn but obviously limit programming in this way to 4 buttons, although multiple actions can be associated with each button.

    It strikes me that the proprietary mode, with its ability to send a large variety of PC or CC, messages would be more helpful in the way Dave has suggested, not least because of its ability select which channel BlueBoard messages are sent on.

    Hope this makes sense.

    Thanks again for your help with this!

  • @wim said:
    @MikeFloutier - after looking at the BlueBoard app description, I feel like this must be what you're using if you're referring to Banks. If so then I really would suggest starting a new thread since this is likely to be pretty specific to the BlueBoard app.

    Thanks @wim , shall I just copy the recent posts along with a short introduction, not sure how to do this...

  • Thanks for the clarification @MikeFloutier. You answered all the questions I had, including how you switch between banks in the BlueBoard app. I'll wait on the separate thread to go further. 👍🏼

  • Sorry for hijacking this thread guys, I’ve now copied the last 7 posts to a new thread titled - BlueBoard - IK Multimedia iRig BlueBoard, Bluetooth BTLE Midi foot pedal - usage issues

    Not sure how to delete the copied posts, sorry!

  • @MikeFloutier . If the BlueBoard app meets your needs, it could be a solution. One minor annoyance is that you probably have to load it separately from Audiobus and other apps, and it likely does not connect to specific app MIDI ports. But it is doing essentially what I would suggest doing with a script. Letting it hear the 4 buttons (doesn't much matter what they send) and send the desired messages to the other apps. It's not difficult to implement a long press for a mode change or reset, so we can make those 4 buttons express quite a lot of things. (The caveat always with modal systems is how does the user know which mode he's in. Easy under normal circumstances but could be awkward in a rush. Imagine if a car had one pedal, and a switch for go or stop.)

  • @MikeFloutier said:
    Sorry for hijacking this thread guys, I’ve now copied the last 7 posts to a new thread titled - BlueBoard - IK Multimedia iRig BlueBoard, Bluetooth BTLE Midi foot pedal - usage issues

    Not sure how to delete the copied posts, sorry!

    I wouldn't delete the posts. Just leave 'em and will discuss in the other thread.

  • Hmm. I came here looking for the solution. . . . :(

  • @hes said:
    Hmm. I came here looking for the solution. . . . :(

    Read the thread from the beginning. The solution involves using midimttr and setting the Blueboard to the mode that sends notes.

  • wimwim
    edited March 2022

    @espiegel123 said:

    @hes said:
    Hmm. I came here looking for the solution. . . . :(

    Read the thread from the beginning. The solution involves using midimttr and setting the Blueboard to the mode that sends notes.

    Or not using midimttr and hosting the apps in AUM for both BLE Midi connect and more flexible routing (if you read a little farther).

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