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Parameter Locking. What is it exactly?

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Comments

  • RajahPRajahP

    @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:
    It's just another word for automation. It's pointlessly complex, and whoever came up with it should either be taken out and shot or chastised by my grandmother. His choice.

    Thanks 😊

  • rs2000rs2000

    @Dalle said:
    Huh, turns out p-locks in Drambo don’t work as I thought they did. Like someone asked before, is it possible to make locks last the note’s whole duration polyphonically, Elektron style? Right now they work like a monophonic automation layer, instead of latching and being a property of the triggered note.

    That's what step components are made for. Add a "Transpose" component after the notes on that step and you will have exactly that.

  • DalleDalle

    @rs2000 said:

    @Dalle said:
    Huh, turns out p-locks in Drambo don’t work as I thought they did. Like someone asked before, is it possible to make locks last the note’s whole duration polyphonically, Elektron style? Right now they work like a monophonic automation layer, instead of latching and being a property of the triggered note.

    That's what step components are made for. Add a "Transpose" component after the notes on that step and you will have exactly that.

    That only works for transposition. Say I have a polyphonic synth, play three notes one after another, and they have long releases that overlap. I can’t p-lock the waveform of the middle note without the next note resetting it.

    I find it a little unintuitive that p-locks appear in step components but don’t work with polyphony.

  • rs2000rs2000

    @Dalle said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Dalle said:
    Huh, turns out p-locks in Drambo don’t work as I thought they did. Like someone asked before, is it possible to make locks last the note’s whole duration polyphonically, Elektron style? Right now they work like a monophonic automation layer, instead of latching and being a property of the triggered note.

    That's what step components are made for. Add a "Transpose" component after the notes on that step and you will have exactly that.

    That only works for transposition. Say I have a polyphonic synth, play three notes one after another, and they have long releases that overlap. I can’t p-lock the waveform of the middle note without the next note resetting it.

    I find it a little unintuitive that p-locks appear in step components but don’t work with polyphony.

    Yes, it's because p-locks work on steps level, not on note level.
    Most people expect waveform p-locks to act on all notes. Manipulating parameters of a single voice would technically be possible but that's not a very common use case as it seems.

  • aleyasaleyas
    edited November 2021

    @rs2000 said:

    @Dalle said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Dalle said:
    Huh, turns out p-locks in Drambo don’t work as I thought they did. Like someone asked before, is it possible to make locks last the note’s whole duration polyphonically, Elektron style? Right now they work like a monophonic automation layer, instead of latching and being a property of the triggered note.

    That's what step components are made for. Add a "Transpose" component after the notes on that step and you will have exactly that.

    That only works for transposition. Say I have a polyphonic synth, play three notes one after another, and they have long releases that overlap. I can’t p-lock the waveform of the middle note without the next note resetting it.

    I find it a little unintuitive that p-locks appear in step components but don’t work with polyphony.

    Yes, it's because p-locks work on steps level, not on note level.
    Most people expect waveform p-locks to act on all notes. Manipulating parameters of a single voice would technically be possible but that's not a very common use case as it seems.

    I could see a use for this, especially with long overlapping notes.
    It could be neat if there were a ‘selectable parameter’ step component, which allowed one to select and lock a parameter from the current track’s modules (e.g., oscillator waveshape). Then step components could modulate the same parameters as p-locks, but on the note level.

  • DalleDalle

    @rs2000 said:

    @Dalle said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Dalle said:
    Huh, turns out p-locks in Drambo don’t work as I thought they did. Like someone asked before, is it possible to make locks last the note’s whole duration polyphonically, Elektron style? Right now they work like a monophonic automation layer, instead of latching and being a property of the triggered note.

    That's what step components are made for. Add a "Transpose" component after the notes on that step and you will have exactly that.

    That only works for transposition. Say I have a polyphonic synth, play three notes one after another, and they have long releases that overlap. I can’t p-lock the waveform of the middle note without the next note resetting it.

    I find it a little unintuitive that p-locks appear in step components but don’t work with polyphony.

    Yes, it's because p-locks work on steps level, not on note level.
    Most people expect waveform p-locks to act on all notes. Manipulating parameters of a single voice would technically be possible but that's not a very common use case as it seems.

    Yep, they're per note on Elektron devices, that's why I assumed that was the case in Drambo... I find the monophonic implementation leads to glitchy sound when notes overlap and parameters jump to values.

  • rs2000rs2000

    @Dalle said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Dalle said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Dalle said:
    Huh, turns out p-locks in Drambo don’t work as I thought they did. Like someone asked before, is it possible to make locks last the note’s whole duration polyphonically, Elektron style? Right now they work like a monophonic automation layer, instead of latching and being a property of the triggered note.

    That's what step components are made for. Add a "Transpose" component after the notes on that step and you will have exactly that.

    That only works for transposition. Say I have a polyphonic synth, play three notes one after another, and they have long releases that overlap. I can’t p-lock the waveform of the middle note without the next note resetting it.

    I find it a little unintuitive that p-locks appear in step components but don’t work with polyphony.

    Yes, it's because p-locks work on steps level, not on note level.
    Most people expect waveform p-locks to act on all notes. Manipulating parameters of a single voice would technically be possible but that's not a very common use case as it seems.

    Yep, they're per note on Elektron devices, that's why I assumed that was the case in Drambo... I find the monophonic implementation leads to glitchy sound when notes overlap and parameters jump to values.

    I guess they're per note because Elektron tracks, unlike Drambo tracks, aren't polyphonic. At least that's the case with Digitakt and Octatrack but then again, Drambo doesn't aim at replacing one of these.

  • DalleDalle

    @rs2000 said:

    @Dalle said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Dalle said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Dalle said:
    Huh, turns out p-locks in Drambo don’t work as I thought they did. Like someone asked before, is it possible to make locks last the note’s whole duration polyphonically, Elektron style? Right now they work like a monophonic automation layer, instead of latching and being a property of the triggered note.

    That's what step components are made for. Add a "Transpose" component after the notes on that step and you will have exactly that.

    That only works for transposition. Say I have a polyphonic synth, play three notes one after another, and they have long releases that overlap. I can’t p-lock the waveform of the middle note without the next note resetting it.

    I find it a little unintuitive that p-locks appear in step components but don’t work with polyphony.

    Yes, it's because p-locks work on steps level, not on note level.
    Most people expect waveform p-locks to act on all notes. Manipulating parameters of a single voice would technically be possible but that's not a very common use case as it seems.

    Yep, they're per note on Elektron devices, that's why I assumed that was the case in Drambo... I find the monophonic implementation leads to glitchy sound when notes overlap and parameters jump to values.

    I guess they're per note because Elektron tracks, unlike Drambo tracks, aren't polyphonic. At least that's the case with Digitakt and Octatrack but then again, Drambo doesn't aim at replacing one of these.

    Digitone, Analog Four and Monomachine have polyphony. It’s fine if Drambo does it differently, but I do think it would be cool to have an option. I guess you could get there with some sample and hold modulation? But that’s not immediate in the way p-locks are.

  • rs2000rs2000

    @Dalle said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Dalle said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Dalle said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Dalle said:
    Huh, turns out p-locks in Drambo don’t work as I thought they did. Like someone asked before, is it possible to make locks last the note’s whole duration polyphonically, Elektron style? Right now they work like a monophonic automation layer, instead of latching and being a property of the triggered note.

    That's what step components are made for. Add a "Transpose" component after the notes on that step and you will have exactly that.

    That only works for transposition. Say I have a polyphonic synth, play three notes one after another, and they have long releases that overlap. I can’t p-lock the waveform of the middle note without the next note resetting it.

    I find it a little unintuitive that p-locks appear in step components but don’t work with polyphony.

    Yes, it's because p-locks work on steps level, not on note level.
    Most people expect waveform p-locks to act on all notes. Manipulating parameters of a single voice would technically be possible but that's not a very common use case as it seems.

    Yep, they're per note on Elektron devices, that's why I assumed that was the case in Drambo... I find the monophonic implementation leads to glitchy sound when notes overlap and parameters jump to values.

    I guess they're per note because Elektron tracks, unlike Drambo tracks, aren't polyphonic. At least that's the case with Digitakt and Octatrack but then again, Drambo doesn't aim at replacing one of these.

    Digitone, Analog Four and Monomachine have polyphony. It’s fine if Drambo does it differently, but I do think it would be cool to have an option. I guess you could get there with some sample and hold modulation? But that’s not immediate in the way p-locks are.

    The second best straightforward way of doing it could be using note velocity to modulate other things than note volume. This allows you to set different values for each note on each step by using the internal velocity sensitive keyboard or the velocity sensitive pads (vertical touch position translates to velocity value) and it will behave like you suggested.

  • dendydendy
    edited November 2021

    @Dalle said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Dalle said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Dalle said:
    Huh, turns out p-locks in Drambo don’t work as I thought they did. Like someone asked before, is it possible to make locks last the note’s whole duration polyphonically, Elektron style? Right now they work like a monophonic automation layer, instead of latching and being a property of the triggered note.

    That's what step components are made for. Add a "Transpose" component after the notes on that step and you will have exactly that.

    That only works for transposition. Say I have a polyphonic synth, play three notes one after another, and they have long releases that overlap. I can’t p-lock the waveform of the middle note without the next note resetting it.

    I find it a little unintuitive that p-locks appear in step components but don’t work with polyphony.

    Yes, it's because p-locks work on steps level, not on note level.
    Most people expect waveform p-locks to act on all notes. Manipulating parameters of a single voice would technically be possible but that's not a very common use case as it seems.

    Yep, they're per note on Elektron devices, that's why I assumed that was the case in Drambo... I find the monophonic implementation leads to glitchy sound when notes overlap and parameters jump to values.

    No they aren't. p-locks are per step also on elektron devices .. for example on Digitone if you have step with chord, and you p-lock some parameter, it's applied on whole chord .. you can't apply it just on some note individually on that step.. This makes sense to have it per step, because you can also make triggerless p-lock (lock just some parameter on step, without having note there).

    Just bear in mind some parameter (like envelope parameter, or LFO in case it is note-synced) are applied only WITH note, it also makes sense because if you lock let's say AMP attack to some value in some step, it is applied to all notes which are starting on that particular step, but not on notes starting on next step ..

    I'm not deeply familiar with Drambo but wha i tried to me it looks like p-locks on Drambo works exactly same way line on Digitone/Digitakt (and probably all other Elektron devices, which i don't have yet lol)

    Can you provide some example situation when p-lock on Drambo behaves differently than on let's say Digitone ?

  • DalleDalle
    edited November 2021

    @dendy said:

    @Dalle said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Dalle said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Dalle said:
    Huh, turns out p-locks in Drambo don’t work as I thought they did. Like someone asked before, is it possible to make locks last the note’s whole duration polyphonically, Elektron style? Right now they work like a monophonic automation layer, instead of latching and being a property of the triggered note.

    That's what step components are made for. Add a "Transpose" component after the notes on that step and you will have exactly that.

    That only works for transposition. Say I have a polyphonic synth, play three notes one after another, and they have long releases that overlap. I can’t p-lock the waveform of the middle note without the next note resetting it.

    I find it a little unintuitive that p-locks appear in step components but don’t work with polyphony.

    Yes, it's because p-locks work on steps level, not on note level.
    Most people expect waveform p-locks to act on all notes. Manipulating parameters of a single voice would technically be possible but that's not a very common use case as it seems.

    Yep, they're per note on Elektron devices, that's why I assumed that was the case in Drambo... I find the monophonic implementation leads to glitchy sound when notes overlap and parameters jump to values.

    No they aren't. p-locks are per step also on elektron devices .. for example on Digitone if you have step with chord, and you p-lock some parameter, it's applied on whole chord .. you can't apply it just on some note individually on that step.. This makes sense to have it per step, because you can also make triggerless p-lock (lock just some parameter on step, without having note there).

    Just bear in mind some parameter (like envelope parameter, or LFO in case it is note-synced) are applied only WITH note, it also makes sense because if you lock let's say AMP attack to some value in some step, it is applied to all notes which are starting on that particular step, but not on notes starting on next step ..

    I'm not deeply familiar with Drambo but wha i tried to me it looks like p-locks on Drambo works exactly same way line on Digitone/Digitakt (and probably all other Elektron devices, which i don't have yet lol)

    Can you provide some example situation when p-lock on Drambo behaves differently than on let's say Digitone ?

    Yes on the Digitone a lock applies to all notes on a step. But if you have a note on step 1, and a note on step 2, and the notes overlap because of amp release time, a plock on step 1 continues to play. On Drambo step 2 kills the lock. On the Elektron with microtiming you can also "fake" locking only one note of a step.

  • KrupaKrupa

    Interesting, you can move the position of plocks in the step editor in drambo but I think they still affect the whole step…

  • dendydendy
    edited November 2021

    @Dalle
    Yes on the Digitone a lock applies to all notes on a step. But if you have a note on step 1, and a note on step 2, and the notes overlap because of amp release time, a plock on step 1 continues to play. On Drambo step 2 kills the lock. On the Elektron with microtiming you can also "fake" locking only one note of a step.

    Tried to set note with p-locked long amp release on trig1 and then note with p-locked short amp release on trig2 and move a trig2 a bit to left so it begin overlas strig1 ..

    when i hit play, i don't hear long release from first note set on trig1 - second note trims the release (on Digitone)

  • DalleDalle

    @dendy said:

    @Dalle
    Yes on the Digitone a lock applies to all notes on a step. But if you have a note on step 1, and a note on step 2, and the notes overlap because of amp release time, a plock on step 1 continues to play. On Drambo step 2 kills the lock. On the Elektron with microtiming you can also "fake" locking only one note of a step.

    Tried to set note with p-locked long amp release on trig1 and then note with p-locked short amp release on trig2 and move a trig2 a bit to left so it begin overlas strig1 ..

    when i hit play, i don't hear long release from first note set on trig1 - second note trims the release (on Digitone)

    Definitely works here - if you are using the same note it might be stealing the voice because you have voice “reuse” on. Try using a different note on the trigs.

  • dendydendy

    @Dalle said:
    Definitely works here - if you are using the same note it might be stealing the voice because you have voice “reuse” on. Try using a different note on the trigs.

    yeah i know, i used different note .. weird ..

  • supadomsupadom
    edited November 2021

    @db909 said:

    @ph8aerror said:

    @db909 said:
    So lemme get this straight, it’s just setting a parameter value per step, presumably holding that value for the duration of the step before advancing to the next which has its own value? So stepped automation but per step rather than grid resolution?

    Succinctly said (ironically by the person who initially needed an explanation).

    Ha. No kidding. I’ve never had the pleasure of using this feature. Usually I just turn knobs while recording for regular automation. I like that performance aspect. Though it seems this would go hand in hand with that if the software/hardware allowed it

    P locks pretty much always result in value jumps that are exclusive to a specific step so if you p lock only one step to change value it will stay on 0 until that step where it will jump and return to 0 on the next step. P locks can be also used to apply conditions to step which may mean skipping that step occasionally or making the sequencer to jump to an another, specified by you, step.

    P locks definitely have a low res, steppy feel to them, giving them a very choppy and tight rhythmical feel. That’s possibly why many people like it.

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