Euclidean Rhythms

edited November 2014 in General Vote Up0

I'm drowning in 4/4, step sequencers, etc. The crux of my setup is with Elektron gear, which is possibly the best of the best when it comes to step sequencing...but probably the first music I ever heard that made me think "I want to do that" was from Autechre, and that leads me into using Euclidean rhythms and other ways to get around the grid. I know there are lots of options out there using Max (for Live) and other computer based solutions, but for the sake of workflow I'd prefer either hardware or iOS options. Is there anything in iOS that does this?

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  • 59 Comments sorted by Date Votes
  • Have you tried this? iPhone app but works on iPad ok. I recollect the dev saying an update was coming but that was some months ago. Works on iOS8

    https://appsto.re/au/Df-cK.i

  • Haven't used it for while, so I downloaded it again. Has a few quirks such, as not being able to flip the screen. It is landscape though. I'm also having trouble changing bpm, so it may not be 100% on 8.

  • @thinds said:

    Have you tried this? iPhone app but works on iPad ok. I recollect the dev saying an update was coming but that was some months ago. Works on iOS8

    https://appsto.re/au/Df-cK.i

    I had not heard of SequenceApp, but for $1 it seems worth a buy. It can only send midi out, not receive any midi in? It would be slightly more useful if it could receive tempo or transport, but it's a minor niggle.

  • Yes, it's out only. Would be great to see this updated sometime.

  • There are also the Glidepro apps Cascadr and fugue, you can get some odd results with those. No save capabilities but they are both free.

  • Cascadr is wonderful. I've paired it with my Sequential Circuits Six-Track into a space echo and a reverb on several blissfully slow occasions. It's not really a sequencer replacement but it's pretty lovely.

    Xynthesizr has the game-of-life modes that can virtually remove you from the grid.

    Nodebeat HD has MIDI out. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/nodebeat-hd/id430218329?mt=8

  • edited November 2014 Vote Up0

    And of course dotMelody is great for non-standard timings. Caelestis and Poly are both excellent too. What about "in C" released a few months ago, this can do some really strange timings.

    https://appsto.re/au/pim60.i

  • What about apps like Jasuto or Audulus? I've only spent a little bit of time programming in Jasuto and still need Audulus, but as modular apps I wonder if these might also present a way to create Euclidean rhythms.

    For that matter, are there any Lemur templates that might do this? I still haven't gotten my $50 worth from that app...it's quite powerful, but also quite complex and I have yet to successfully create anything good with it.

    I need to spend more time with Xynthesizer. I do like the sequencer from the little time I've spent with it.

  • If you go down the Audulus route you could check out this patch -
    http://forum.audulus.com/discussion/333/euclidean-sequencer-and-percussion-modules

  • I feel the same way about 4/4 16 beat lock-ins. The Pro Midi sequencer that just came out gives you 16 channels with independent looping of any channel's beat length I believe, so you could play around with odd numbered/offset patterns that change over time. I haven't tried it yet to know if the workflow for that is easy, but it looks that way so I'll probably give it a shot.

    Also Different Drummer seems to have those capabilities once you figure out how to use it. And Samplr has an "arpeggiator" mode that you can set up varying numbers of hits on the waveform on any of 6 channels and that will produce some pretty Euclidian results. And TriqTraq has looping offsets for its 4 channels and other things that allow you to get off the repetitive treadmill somewhat.

  • edited November 2014 Vote Up0

    I'm just starting work on a drum machine app where each instrument's "loop" can be an independent length up to 64 beats long, and the beat size can be variable as well. i.e. a 64 beat whole note pattern against a 10 beat dotted 16th pattern. So the patterns all phase with each other but keep the same clock source. We'll see how it goes!

    A bit different than euclidean though, in that they don't all subdivide the same measure.

  • @benkamen: Sounds great! Keep us posted! (and allow sample import) :))

  • It doesn't look like the developer of SequenceApp is going to update that app, any chance any of the other developers on here could do a similar app - i'd definitely buy it.

  • What about Poly? I love that app. Does midi too (IAP, I think).

  • @aleyas definitely sample import! I'm still very very very early in the process, but yes, I think that's pretty essential.

  • Hi, just registered to be apart of this thread if it happens to pick up again. Hoping for an app solution as well, but for external hardware, I am for sure picking up the Squarp Pyramid Sequencer:

    http://www.squarp.net/index.html

  • edited April 2015 Vote Up0

    Great thread.

    With Euclidean rhythms and other complex rhythms, varying the loop length is key. It's one of the things I love most about the grid for the Tremor drum vst. As mentioned above you can vary the size of the loop with ProMidi. Looks like Sequenceapp also allows this.

    In addition to those mentioned already, you can set number of steps in steppolyarp and thesys.

    Sure would be awesome if Cubasis or Gadget allowed for you to set pattern lengths at something other than 1 bar increments.

  • Been looking at rhythm necklace and it can do this nicely.  No direct midi out or clock sync though, but you can save a midi file and then import it into your daw.
  • benkamen's eye when this thread started.  It's great for Euclidean stuff.  You can vary the number of steps in werkbench too.  
  • edited November 2015 Vote Up0
    ecamburn said:
    benkamen's eye when this thread started.  It's great for Euclidean stuff.  You can vary the number of steps in werkbench too.  

     Hehe, I started reading the thread without looking at the date and was like 'How come nobody is mentioning...' ohhh right... duh...  hehe time capsules are great.  Nothing like follow through too.
  • Just looked up Patterning and it looks excellent.  thinking this through... A 5 against 4 polyrhythms would resolve itself every 20 beats, which would work fine in Patterning cause I believe the upper limit is 34.  But something like 7 against 6 (if you would want to do that) wouldn't be possible cause it exceeds the upper limit of the app and cant resolve.  But cool beans for the simpler stuff.
  • edited November 2015 Vote Up0
    Oh, too technical, but why it can not break limit 34? It supposed to break it, no?
  • edited November 2015 Vote Up0
    Coloobar said:
    Just looked up Patterning and it looks excellent.  thinking this through... A 5 against 4 polyrhythms would resolve itself every 20 beats, which would work fine in Patterning cause I believe the upper limit is 34.  But something like 7 against 6 (if you would want to do that) wouldn't be possible cause it exceeds the upper limit of the app and cant resolve.  But cool beans for the simpler stuff.
    I never picked up Patterning since I've had my head so deep into Logic for the past couple of months, but I have used the Euclidean Rhythms in Figure for years now.

    I don't think it works like you are thinking. 

    It seems that you believe, for example that one loop would run at 5/4 time whereas the other runs as 4/4, and then eventually the two will meet. In that case, you'd have two loops playing sounds with the same note lengths.

    The way figure works, and I believe patterning does as well, is that the amount of time in a bar/measure is divided by 5 for one sound and 4 for another. It resolves itself to itself every bar, so there is nothing to catch up to, as they don't share the same note length, but they both do begin at the beginning of the loop and end at the end of the loop, so what they share is a single loop.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the max division was 32, and I might check patterning out soon just to give it a play.
  • edited November 2015 Vote Up0
    The length of a "bar" can vary for each track in patterning. Bar length is determined by step duration and number of steps. So the rate of repetition can be different for each track. 
  • edited November 2015 Vote Up0
    Ok, I think I get what Coloobar was saying, I thought he was talking in terms of Euclidean.

    That said, the loops don't have a limit on how many times they can be played in sequence, and therefore don't have a limit on resolving if used in that mode. There is a limit of 64 steps per loop per voice, and those steps can be different note lengths per voice.

    Would like to know specifically what you mean about that limit, Coloobar, if you have time. 
  • AQ808 said:
    It seems that you believe, for example that one loop would run at 5/4 time whereas the other runs as 4/4, and then eventually the two will meet. In that case, you'd have two loops playing sounds with the same note lengths.

    The way figure works, and I believe patterning does as well, is that the amount of time in a bar/measure is divided by 5 for one sound and 4 for another. It resolves itself to itself every bar, so there is nothing to catch up to, as they don't share the same note length, but they both do begin at the beginning of the loop and end at the end of the loop, so what they share is a single loop.

    I was thinking that regardless of the time signature in a loop, all loops will resolve simultaneously at the end of each measure.  So if you want to do, say, a true 5 against 4, you would need to set the measure length to 20 beats like so:

    4/4: XoooXoooXoooXoooXooo
    5/4: XooooXooooXooooXoooo

    Correct me if Patterning doesn't work this way.
  • edited November 2015 Vote Up0
    It seems patterning has two modes on this.

    Euclidean mode was like I was describing, it does not arbitrarily end something, it just divides a loop, and note length depends on the loop itself.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeMTQYyvrWs

    But there is also the standard loop mode which can do what you are talking about, where you have same note lengths running as different loops.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2URP5ocDA4

    This app is definitely more versatile than I expected.
  • edited November 2015 Vote Up0
    Coloobar said:
    AQ808 said:
    It seems that you believe, for example that one loop would run at 5/4 time whereas the other runs as 4/4, and then eventually the two will meet. In that case, you'd have two loops playing sounds with the same note lengths.

    The way figure works, and I believe patterning does as well, is that the amount of time in a bar/measure is divided by 5 for one sound and 4 for another. It resolves itself to itself every bar, so there is nothing to catch up to, as they don't share the same note length, but they both do begin at the beginning of the loop and end at the end of the loop, so what they share is a single loop.

    I was thinking that regardless of the time signature in a loop, all loops will resolve simultaneously at the end of each measure.  So if you want to do, say, a true 5 against 4, you would need to set the measure length to 20 beats like so:

    4/4: XoooXoooXoooXoooXooo
    5/4: XooooXooooXooooXoooo

    Correct me if Patterning doesn't work this way.
    Yeah, see in euclidean, you literally have 5 slices of the amount of time in a bar versus 4 slices of that same amount of time.

    In standard loop mode, you would simplify what you are doing there to simply one loop of 5 quarter notes and one loop of 4 quarter notes. Then they will play endlessly, so you don't have to constrain them at all, and they will continue and resolve eventually. Same with 7 against 6 or any other combination.
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