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Any simple to use ducker app?

I have something I’m working on where I’d like a vocal on one channel in AUM to automatically duck the volume of a musical backing on a second channel in AUM, in a DJ on the radio style. Side chaining kind of blows my mind, so I’m looking ideally for a discrete app, or failing that, pointers toward idiot proof instructions to achieve this. Any suggestions, peeps?

Comments

  • edited August 2023

    AUM does provide a native compressor with side chain but at a cost of 8 euro i believe.

    its called AU3FX:Push

  • FAC Envolver.

    Put it as an FX on the music channel. Invert the Envolver envelope. Set the volume of the second channel to be controlled by the CC that Envolver is sending out. Adjust Envolver to taste. No compressor or side chain needed. 👍🏼

  • wimwim
    edited August 2023

    You can also use the Drambo (mFx) Envelope Follower module connected to a MIDI CC Generator instead of FAC Envolver. I'm not sure yet how to invert the envelope follower value in Drambo, but you can easily invert it in the AUM midi control assignment.

  • definitely persevere with the side chaining personal understanding thing, i will try to see if anyone's done an idiot's guide video.

    basically, if you already know how a compressor works, you are actually closer than you think.
    (is that a big assumption, that you know how a compressor works?),,

    so, for a radio style ducker, you would have a compressor inserted on the music playback channel.

    the selection of what source material is the side chain, is the vocal, such that IE; signal from the vocal channel will be thing that makes the compressor active...

    then you adjust the compression settings to taste, to get the required amount of ducking,, threshold getting fairly low down, and a high ratio to get tons of ducking, or something more mild,

    maybe

  • Here's Drambo Envelope Follower set to duck the volume of another channel. The Subtract module is used to invert the signal (there may be a better way).

  • wimwim
    edited August 2023

    I prefer involver though...

    What I like about this technique over side chain sometimes is it can be applied to any parameter or multiple parameters at once, for instance, ducking the cutoff of a low-pass filter rather than volume, ducking a reverb wet/dry mix, panning something out of the way for an instant, etc.

  • edited August 2023

    Thanks all for your suggestions, and especially to @wim for explaining the envolver method, as a): I already have it and b) unlike Drambo, I have half a chance of understanding it. As for your question, @Bruques, do I ‘understand’ compression? It all depends on what you mean by ‘understand’. I mean, I read A Brief History Of Time, cover to cover. Understood all the words. It was when I had to put them all together things got tricky…

  • wimwim
    edited August 2023

    Just keep in mind my way isn't the "right" way according to most people. 😉
    It's just what I learned back in the day on the PC before side chain compressors were available (or I just didn't know what they were).

    Sidechain compression is basically the same thing but instead of putting an envelope follower right in the signal chain, you're diverting the signal directly into the compressor's side chain input and it's doing the envelope following. Either way, the volume is basically just getting turned down in response to ducking source.

    If you're getting "zipper noise" because of the low resolution of the midi control over something like a volume fader, then you might need to come to grips with side chain routing. It's not too hard if you jus think of it in terms of signal flow. The compressor has two inputs - one for the ducking signal and one for the signal to be ducked. You just have to know how to route the signal.

  • RoughRider3 from Audio Damage has side-chaining capabilities and it’s free.

    I recall watching a YouTube Video that cabled it up:

    It was challenging so I made a AUM project that duplicated the sidechaining and Koala sampling use case:

    https://patchstorage.com/petesasqwax-koala-resampler-rig/

    Hopefully, you can better understand using RoughRider3 to compress a channel when you talk on your mic.

  • @wim said:
    Here's Drambo Envelope Follower set to duck the volume of another channel. The Subtract module is used to invert the signal (there may be a better way).

    Using a Graphic Shaper instead of "1.000" and Subtract would let you draw either a falling line (which equals the subtraction) or any curve for fine tuning the ducker response depending on the side chain signal.

  • @wim said:
    FAC Envolver.

    Put it as an FX on the music channel. Invert the Envolver envelope. Set the volume of the second channel to be controlled by the CC that Envolver is sending out. Adjust Envolver to taste. No compressor or side chain needed. 👍🏼

    That's what I would do too. It's a very useful trick in AUM. You can even make automated arrangements with this approach--as one file player goes silent, another kicks in, etc.

  • Thanks @rs2000 - that does work better.

  • edited August 2023

    @wim: So: just to clarify… I have a music channel, and a vocal channel. I put Envolver on the music channel, with an inverted envelope, it is punting out ccs, cool, then I set the fader on the volume of the vocal to the same cc, and then Volver rides the output from the music channel and boosts the volume of the music whenever there is a gap in the vox channel. Is that right?

  • @Svetlovska said:
    @wim: So: just to clarify… I have a music channel, and a vocal channel. I put Envolver on the music channel, with an inverted envelope, it is punting out ccs, cool, then I set the fader on the volume of the vocal to the same cc, and then Volver rides the output from the music channel and boosts the volume of the music whenever there is a gap in the vox channel. Is that right?

    Yes!

  • wimwim
    edited August 2023

    @Svetlovska said:
    @wim: So: just to clarify… I have a music channel, and a vocal channel. I put Envolver on the music channel, with an inverted envelope, it is punting out ccs, cool, then I set the fader on the volume of the vocal to the same cc, and then Volver rides the output from the music channel and boosts the volume of the music whenever there is a gap in the vox channel. Is that right?

    Humm ... not really. It reduces the volume of the music whenever there's a peak in the vox channel then returns it to where it was when there's a gap in the vox channel. You should set the volume of the music channel to where it should be when there's a gap in the Vox channel.

  • @wim said:

    @Svetlovska said:
    @wim: So: just to clarify… I have a music channel, and a vocal channel. I put Envolver on the music channel, with an inverted envelope, it is punting out ccs, cool, then I set the fader on the volume of the vocal to the same cc, and then Volver rides the output from the music channel and boosts the volume of the music whenever there is a gap in the vox channel. Is that right?

    Humm ... not really. It reduces the volume of the music whenever there's a peak in the vox channel then returns it to where it was when there's a gap in the vox channel. You should set the volume of the music channel to where it should be when there's a gap in the Vox channel.

    I think that’s what she was saying - maybe I misunderstood!. Either way, what Wim says is correct.

  • @jakoB_haQ does a nice tech video showing how to side-chain in AUM using the free RoughRider3 compressor and near the end he adds another Pro-C2 instance to double the effect:

  • Check out Flux Mini 2, you can draw the volume envelope and trigger it with audio or midi

    https://apps.apple.com/app/flux-mini-2/id1617636726

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