Audiobus: Use your music apps together.

What is Audiobus?Audiobus is an award-winning music app for iPhone and iPad which lets you use your other music apps together. Chain effects on your favourite synth, run the output of apps or Audio Units into an app like GarageBand or Loopy, or select a different audio interface output for each app. Route MIDI between apps — drive a synth from a MIDI sequencer, or add an arpeggiator to your MIDI keyboard — or sync with your external MIDI gear. And control your entire setup from a MIDI controller.

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Why isn't there any live vids/clips of people using Loopy Pro at a gig?

I'm looking to get setup with looping bass, drums, pads etc - turning things into a one-man-band sorta deal with a looper.

I'm heading into doing it with Loopy Pro, slowly setting it up how I want to so I can gig it with my Akai MPK Mini Play Mk3 and/or NI S88 Mk2, and acoustic guitar + vocals.

Jumping on YT.. there's plenty of demos of people looping with it, but I haven't found a single video of anyone at a gig, using Loopy Pro to do what I want to do.

Is there a reason for this? People just prefer hardware ie footpedal loopers etc.. or is there some issue with iPads and/or Loopy Pro that I'm unaware of?

I know it is a little annoying to have to bring a little interface for guitar/vocals (I've got a Focusrite Scarlett Solo for this), but it still seems odd that there's nobody doing it live at a gig.

I was thinking it was because people seem to need the metronome to kick things off, and even if you panned metronome L and the mix R, you'd have to have headphones for it to be workable which isn't practical at a gig.

Maybe there's more to it. In theory it seems like there shouldn't be any issues with using LP + maybe a footpedal MIDI controller for all my looping needs. Curious as to why there doesn't appear to be any vids of people doing it, at gigs.

I keep mentioning "at gigs" because I have no interest in people doing it at home or whatever, I want to see it being done on stage, live, with people watching/singing/dancing etc ie actual real-gigging-world use as that's what I want to be doing with it.

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Comments

  • wimwim
    edited July 2023

    There are plenty of people using it at live gigs. There could be any number of reasons they haven’t published videos (or you haven’t run across them if they did).

    I’ve seen seen vids on the discord channel and the beta slack channel. Live performers discuss shows experiences from time to time there too.

  • That said, probably most people gigging with loopers are still using hardware. Hardware loopers have bee around for many, many years. Loopy has been around 18 months or so. If you’ve got something reliable that you’ve practiced enough with to be proficient enough for live work with, it’s a big deal to transition to something new.

  • edited July 2023

    There are plenty out there. Here are a few:





    (Marcus is prolific, there are tons of these)

  • Cheers for the responses.

    I guess I'm more after someone using it at a gig, in a bar/pub or something, maybe multi-instrumentalist, maybe just guitar/keys and vocals or whatever, anyway - @Michael has linked some great stuff.

    The first clip (DUB FX) is beatboxing etc not really reflective of an ordinary pub gig so I scratch this off.

    The second one (INKIE) has premade loops etc.. totally not what I'm after. Definitely want live loops, all done on the spot. It's also some guy in his bedroom - might sound weird but I really am after real-world, actually gigging stuff. Scratch this off but I guess it shows how things might work with premade loops or perhaps backing tracks.

    After those we get into a few clips that actually show what I'm after, when combined.

    Third one (Teardrop) - It's closer to how it might be used in a real situation than the above ones, though with headphones it makes it hard to gauge (wouldn't have those on, would be using a foldback - is it as practical then, considering potential feedback issues? idk what pickup or microphone he's using. But it's still obvious to see it can definitely be used live like this, without a metronome or footpedal MIDI controller.

    Fourth one (Kristof) - bedroom again, but this is way closer in spirit to what I'm after - seems reflective of how things would go down at a gig, all appears to be live (obviously using samples but that's fine, different to just hitting play or whatever on premade beats). This is awesome.

    Fifth one (Markus) - I've seen this one before, when I was looking up the Behringer MIDI controller, didn't even realise it was done using Loopy Pro at the time. Awesome, very much what I was after.

    Sixth one (Loopy Pro Jam #8) - not far off how things would go down live, but there wouldn't be headphones, obviously. This makes me a bit ?? because I wouldn't want the punters to hear a metronome when starting things off in this fashion ie vocals first but this is easily avoidable by just starting with anything else.

    Seventh one (Josh Elliott) - again, bedroom/home situation with headphones.. but it shows very clearly how things would go live.

    Really, Markus is the only one that's actually what I was after - an actual live performance, playing in public.. but the others demonstrate other angles.

    Seems _more _than capable of doing what I want (which isn't anywhere near as hectic as #4 or #6).

    Sweet.

  • @wim said:
    There are plenty of people using it at live gigs. There could be any number of reasons they haven’t published videos (or you haven’t run across them if they did).

    I’ve seen seen vids on the discord channel and the beta slack channel. Live performers discuss shows experiences from time to time there too.

    I should join the Discord channel. Very much interested in seeing what everyone's doing with it, and sharing what I do after everything is sorted out etc.

  • It’s likely a case that not every is a “tech head” and they’re more concerned with pushing their music than talking tech.
    A lot of people I have known who write and play songs… really don’t care much about what they are using, if it’s working for them.
    They see it like any tool, such as their guitar.

    A chap I knew, he for years was using a very simple Boss 8 track and releasing his albums.
    He wasn’t interested in talking tech.

  • @greatestlengths said:
    Cheers for the responses.

    I guess I'm more after someone using it at a gig, in a bar/pub or something, maybe multi-instrumentalist, maybe just guitar/keys and vocals or whatever, anyway - @Michael has linked some great stuff.

    The first clip (DUB FX) is beatboxing etc not really reflective of an ordinary pub gig so I scratch this off.

    The second one (INKIE) has premade loops etc.. totally not what I'm after. Definitely want live loops, all done on the spot. It's also some guy in his bedroom - might sound weird but I really am after real-world, actually gigging stuff. Scratch this off but I guess it shows how things might work with premade loops or perhaps backing tracks.

    After those we get into a few clips that actually show what I'm after, when combined.

    Third one (Teardrop) - It's closer to how it might be used in a real situation than the above ones, though with headphones it makes it hard to gauge (wouldn't have those on, would be using a foldback - is it as practical then, considering potential feedback issues? idk what pickup or microphone he's using. But it's still obvious to see it can definitely be used live like this, without a metronome or footpedal MIDI controller.

    Fourth one (Kristof) - bedroom again, but this is way closer in spirit to what I'm after - seems reflective of how things would go down at a gig, all appears to be live (obviously using samples but that's fine, different to just hitting play or whatever on premade beats). This is awesome.

    Fifth one (Markus) - I've seen this one before, when I was looking up the Behringer MIDI controller, didn't even realise it was done using Loopy Pro at the time. Awesome, very much what I was after.

    Sixth one (Loopy Pro Jam #8) - not far off how things would go down live, but there wouldn't be headphones, obviously. This makes me a bit ?? because I wouldn't want the punters to hear a metronome when starting things off in this fashion ie vocals first but this is easily avoidable by just starting with anything else.

    Seventh one (Josh Elliott) - again, bedroom/home situation with headphones.. but it shows very clearly how things would go live.

    Really, Markus is the only one that's actually what I was after - an actual live performance, playing in public.. but the others demonstrate other angles.

    Seems _more _than capable of doing what I want (which isn't anywhere near as hectic as #4 or #6).

    Sweet.

    "wouldn't be headphones obviously" is not actually obvious, in-ear monitors rather than over ear phones, so just in-ear phones, common as mud in use by performers of "real" gigs in real venues on real stages and that's how we get to use a clicktrack that audiences don't hear. If you're not going to spring for pro reference sounding in ears you can grab some KZ ZS10s which do the job perfectly for 50 quid.

    (Seems slightly odd way of phrasing it, that only your pub scenario is a "real" scenario. But anyway :)

  • @Bruques said:

    @greatestlengths said:
    Cheers for the responses.

    I guess I'm more after someone using it at a gig, in a bar/pub or something, maybe multi-instrumentalist, maybe just guitar/keys and vocals or whatever, anyway - @Michael has linked some great stuff.

    The first clip (DUB FX) is beatboxing etc not really reflective of an ordinary pub gig so I scratch this off.

    The second one (INKIE) has premade loops etc.. totally not what I'm after. Definitely want live loops, all done on the spot. It's also some guy in his bedroom - might sound weird but I really am after real-world, actually gigging stuff. Scratch this off but I guess it shows how things might work with premade loops or perhaps backing tracks.

    After those we get into a few clips that actually show what I'm after, when combined.

    Third one (Teardrop) - It's closer to how it might be used in a real situation than the above ones, though with headphones it makes it hard to gauge (wouldn't have those on, would be using a foldback - is it as practical then, considering potential feedback issues? idk what pickup or microphone he's using. But it's still obvious to see it can definitely be used live like this, without a metronome or footpedal MIDI controller.

    Fourth one (Kristof) - bedroom again, but this is way closer in spirit to what I'm after - seems reflective of how things would go down at a gig, all appears to be live (obviously using samples but that's fine, different to just hitting play or whatever on premade beats). This is awesome.

    Fifth one (Markus) - I've seen this one before, when I was looking up the Behringer MIDI controller, didn't even realise it was done using Loopy Pro at the time. Awesome, very much what I was after.

    Sixth one (Loopy Pro Jam #8) - not far off how things would go down live, but there wouldn't be headphones, obviously. This makes me a bit ?? because I wouldn't want the punters to hear a metronome when starting things off in this fashion ie vocals first but this is easily avoidable by just starting with anything else.

    Seventh one (Josh Elliott) - again, bedroom/home situation with headphones.. but it shows very clearly how things would go live.

    Really, Markus is the only one that's actually what I was after - an actual live performance, playing in public.. but the others demonstrate other angles.

    Seems _more _than capable of doing what I want (which isn't anywhere near as hectic as #4 or #6).

    Sweet.

    "wouldn't be headphones obviously" is not actually obvious, in-ear monitors rather than over ear phones, so just in-ear phones, common as mud in use by performers of "real" gigs in real venues on real stages and that's how we get to use a clicktrack that audiences don't hear. If you're not going to spring for pro reference sounding in ears you can grab some KZ ZS10s which do the job perfectly for 50 quid.

    (Seems slightly odd way of phrasing it, that only your pub scenario is a "real" scenario. But anyway :)

    In-ears are pretty much a no-deal.

    I play rowdy bars/pubs in a regional/rural area - I absolutely need to be able to hear the punters, lest I plan on dodging glasses. Total no-deal with in-ears.

  • @greatestlengths said:

    @Bruques said:

    @greatestlengths said:
    Cheers for the responses.

    I guess I'm more after someone using it at a gig, in a bar/pub or something, maybe multi-instrumentalist, maybe just guitar/keys and vocals or whatever, anyway - @Michael has linked some great stuff.

    The first clip (DUB FX) is beatboxing etc not really reflective of an ordinary pub gig so I scratch this off.

    The second one (INKIE) has premade loops etc.. totally not what I'm after. Definitely want live loops, all done on the spot. It's also some guy in his bedroom - might sound weird but I really am after real-world, actually gigging stuff. Scratch this off but I guess it shows how things might work with premade loops or perhaps backing tracks.

    After those we get into a few clips that actually show what I'm after, when combined.

    Third one (Teardrop) - It's closer to how it might be used in a real situation than the above ones, though with headphones it makes it hard to gauge (wouldn't have those on, would be using a foldback - is it as practical then, considering potential feedback issues? idk what pickup or microphone he's using. But it's still obvious to see it can definitely be used live like this, without a metronome or footpedal MIDI controller.

    Fourth one (Kristof) - bedroom again, but this is way closer in spirit to what I'm after - seems reflective of how things would go down at a gig, all appears to be live (obviously using samples but that's fine, different to just hitting play or whatever on premade beats). This is awesome.

    Fifth one (Markus) - I've seen this one before, when I was looking up the Behringer MIDI controller, didn't even realise it was done using Loopy Pro at the time. Awesome, very much what I was after.

    Sixth one (Loopy Pro Jam #8) - not far off how things would go down live, but there wouldn't be headphones, obviously. This makes me a bit ?? because I wouldn't want the punters to hear a metronome when starting things off in this fashion ie vocals first but this is easily avoidable by just starting with anything else.

    Seventh one (Josh Elliott) - again, bedroom/home situation with headphones.. but it shows very clearly how things would go live.

    Really, Markus is the only one that's actually what I was after - an actual live performance, playing in public.. but the others demonstrate other angles.

    Seems _more _than capable of doing what I want (which isn't anywhere near as hectic as #4 or #6).

    Sweet.

    "wouldn't be headphones obviously" is not actually obvious, in-ear monitors rather than over ear phones, so just in-ear phones, common as mud in use by performers of "real" gigs in real venues on real stages and that's how we get to use a clicktrack that audiences don't hear. If you're not going to spring for pro reference sounding in ears you can grab some KZ ZS10s which do the job perfectly for 50 quid.

    (Seems slightly odd way of phrasing it, that only your pub scenario is a "real" scenario. But anyway :)

    In-ears are pretty much a no-deal.

    I play rowdy bars/pubs in a regional/rural area - I absolutely need to be able to hear the punters, lest I plan on dodging glasses. Total no-deal with in-ears.

    If you incorporate what amounts to a an ambient "talkback" mic for the room/audience in to your setup, you can hear them just fine and the routing will only be in the balance in your in ears and not sent to FOH, you can turn them up or down in the mix to suit perfectly thus if you want you can hear them even more than without in ears

  • @greatestlengths : the reason there are relatively few videos of people using loopy in-situ at gigs is that only a tiny fraction of musicians take videos of their gigs. So, gig videos are a small sampling of all people gigging. Given that hardware loopers have been around for decades, the vast majority of people gigging with loopers are not yet using Loopy pro as it is a very new product.

    So, it isn’t surprising that there aren’t many videos of people’s Loopy Pro pub gigs.

  • OK, not in front of an audience but very much live and I think along the lines of what you’re looking for. Just payed by an active participant on the discord server.

  • wimwim
    edited July 2023

    Here ya' go ... more than two hours of live loopy pro performance. Not in a pub, but not in a studio either. Sorry, no beer bottle dodging tho.

  • @wim said:
    Here ya' go ... more than two hours of live loopy pro performance. Not in a pub, but not in a studio either. Sorry, no beer bottle dodging tho.

    Sorry for the late reply - I've checked the clips you've sent out, this most recent one is bang on what I was after.

    I've recently picked up a Nektar Pacer too, with an additional expression pedal and footswitch, oddly enough (he's using one in that clip) - I decided to try looping with a Mac and Ableton Live, or whatever DAW I liked most (Ableton seems the best for live use.. it is in the name, I guess, though Bitwig is awesome and I think I might just prefer using that)..

    ..anyway, I didn't even think to try my new MIDI controller with Loopy Pro. Going to explore that idea shortly, maybe I'll be able to post clips of my own use of Loopy Pro live in a bar/pub scenario.

    My only concern using the iPad is I use Songbook Pro for setlists and it's very easy to bring up song requests in - not sure I'd be able to use it at the same time as LP because I only have the one iPad. It would be awesome if LP was available on my MacBook - I know it's "coming soon", haven't looked into how far away that would be.

    I'm still going to hook the Pacer up and map out a basic layout for tonights gig, if I can get it done in time - I've got a BOSS RC-600 that I just hate. I absolutely hate the thing. I can't stress enough how much I dislike it. I owned one in the past, sold it to a friend, bought another one because it's the only looper at a reasonable price with that many inputs (so I can use it as an audio interface at home too), but it's a nightmare to work with.

    If I can map out a basic looper with LP and the Pacer, I think I'll do that and just not take requests for songs I don't know tonight. Unless there's a way to get Songbook Pro up with LP on the iPad at the same time, somehow - or perhaps a way to midi map it so I can press a button and it swaps apps.. that would be cool..

    Anyway, cheers for the links. I'm looking forward to trying out LP with the Pacer. I think it'll be an amazing combo.

  • wimwim
    edited September 2023

    @greatestlengths - be sure to toggle “Enable Network MIDI” off in Loopy Pro System settings. For some reason it can interfere with the Nektar Pacer.

    You’re a far braver person than me if you consider going into a gig with something you just set up today. 😬

  • Seventh one (Josh Elliott) - again, bedroom/home situation with headphones.. but it shows very clearly how things would go live.

    That one is me. I agree 100% about headphones or in ears at gigs. Although I do wear them at home as in this video I don’t use them at gigs and I don’t use a click track either. I strongly dislike the idea of a click track and prefer to let my first loop set the tempo. I gigged with Loopy Pro all summer and have hours of video footage but haven’t had the time or interest in posting it. I also have an RC-600 but don’t hate it as much as you. In fact I quite like it but it is very limited in comparison to Loopy. It’s been about 4 months since your post. How are you getting on with the looping set up?

  • @Michael said:
    Jack Shepherd does these kinds of gigs a fair bit https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cuixg85glJT/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

    Cool stuff

  • @joshelliott said:

    Seventh one (Josh Elliott) - again, bedroom/home situation with headphones.. but it shows very clearly how things would go live.

    That one is me. I agree 100% about headphones or in ears at gigs. Although I do wear them at home as in this video I don’t use them at gigs and I don’t use a click track either. I strongly dislike the idea of a click track and prefer to let my first loop set the tempo. I gigged with Loopy Pro all summer and have hours of video footage but haven’t had the time or interest in posting it. I also have an RC-600 but don’t hate it as much as you. In fact I quite like it but it is very limited in comparison to Loopy. It’s been about 4 months since your post. How are you getting on with the looping set up?

    I've been gigging both the 600 and Loopy Pro recently, and I find Loopy Pro way better. I took the 600 to the local music store the other day, as it's been faulty - one of the dials on it is busted, among other things (it crashed a couple of times at gigs too)..

    ..I was able to set the 600 up the way I wanted to, almost.. no way to have a dedicated "undo selected track" option, it only has a simple undo/redo function. Which is perfectly fine, I mean how often does anyone need to undo selected track multiple times (without a redo btw) anyway.. but, I just like it working a certain way..

    I've got Loopy Pro working functionally exactly how I want, it's awesome for solo acoustic gigs and I've played a heap of gigs with it, I haven't had any issues whatsoever with it functionally at gigs. I did work on my basic setup over the course of a few gigs to get it where I wanted.

    I don't have the LEDs on my Nektar Pacer lining up perfectly with it though - this is annoying as heck and I don't know how to get around it. It's also like it doesn't sync the CC values when I change presets on the Pacer, so when I swap from a "recording" mode to a "play" mode, I have to double-tap the buttons to mute/unmute the tracks and this is a total pain to deal with.. these two issues are able to be worked around, I've just been dealing with them as I haven't had time in the last little while to sort it out.

    I've also been using Ableton Live's looper plugin and that's okay but it suffers from the same issue as the 600 - no simple way to "undo selected track".. there IS a way around it, but it's by created a bunch of presets on the Pacer, one for each "track" I'm recording to, and then having the undo button on each of those, correspond to that tracks undo button. It works but I'm not a fan of using so many presets, as at any point something could go wrong, I don't really trust swapping presets so often to work all the time.. not crazy comfortable with that idea at paid gigs. But it works. I still have the double-tap issue though on Ableton, for the same thing - mute/unmute tracks. I think this is either a Pacer issue, or it's a me issue. IDK which yet.

    Loopy Pro has the "peel" function, which can be set to undo-only + it can be set to affect the selected track. This means it works the way I want.

    I've found Loopy Pro to be the easiest of them all to get where I want, and it feels the most reliable to me when using at a gig - but, I've got so much stuff on the MacBook that I really want to take to gigs - the whole Native Instruments Komplete 14 Ultimate for a start (I'd start gigging keys then, too).. so I'm also kinda hanging out for Loopy Pro to come to Mac..

    But with Loopy Pro - definitely done a number of gigs, I haven't had any major fails - I haven't even messed up with the double-tap muting/unmuting issue at a gig, haven't failed anything because of LEDs not lining up either, I seem to be pretty on the ball with keeping track of where I'm at with all that. Would still love for it to work properly, because it's something I'm having to consciously track as I play and I don't want that.

    I've also been using Loopy Pro just as a host for some FX as well, I've done a couple of gigs without using the Pacer - just running mic and guitars into Loopy Pro, and using some delays and reverbs etc that I want - as well as THU-Overloud for some electric guitar tones (nice to mix it up sometimes live)... this works beautifully, Loopy Pro seems great used like this too.

    So there's still some things to sort out for me before it's perfect, but I've already been gigging a "functional" version of the looper I want. Which is basically just Ed Sheeran's Chewie II. I'm not crazy on the Pacer's physical buttons, or the 600s.. I wish the whole MIDI board I was using was way bigger, not a fan of having to be careful about where I'm stepping.. nothing to do with Loopy Pro, I might even be better served by creating my own pedalboard at some point, using individual larger pedals. I don't want to straight up rip off Ed Sheeran's setup, I do really like the workflow though and I do want bigger pedals :/

    The 600, I want a refund on. It's awesome in theory but in practice, I just don't like it.. I keep trying, but I simply don't like using it.. it doesn't feel reliable to me. It doesn't feel like a BOSS-quality tank. Crashing on me at gigs + a busted dial within such a short time of owning it is just unacceptable. I'd rather get my money back and put it towards other things I could upgrade or whatever.

  • @greatestlengths : if there are issues with the feedback from loopy to the pedal, it would be great if you could give specifics so that @Michael can look into the issue.

    Can you explain what you mean by “It's also like it doesn't sync the CC values when I change presets on the Pacer, so when I swap from a "recording" mode to a "play" mode, I have to double-tap the buttons to mute/unmute the tracks and this is a total pain to deal with.. ”?

    What cc values don’t sync?

  • @espiegel123 said:
    @greatestlengths : if there are issues with the feedback from loopy to the pedal, it would be great if you could give specifics so that @Michael can look into the issue.

    Can you explain what you mean by “It's also like it doesn't sync the CC values when I change presets on the Pacer, so when I swap from a "recording" mode to a "play" mode, I have to double-tap the buttons to mute/unmute the tracks and this is a total pain to deal with.. ”?

    What cc values don’t sync?

    I don't know if CC values not syncing is the issue - it just seems like it is, for both Ableton Live and Loopy Pro.

    I've got some buttons up to mute/unmute tracks, but whenever I swap presets on the Pacer, it's like it doesn't remember what the CC was.. so I always have to double-tap the button on the Pacer, for it to start working on Loopy Pro (or Ableton Live).. the first tap does nothing, then the second one works.

    It's the same deal for each separate mute/unmute.. I have 4, so the first tap on each 4, does absolutely nothing, then it starts working.

    My assumption is the Pacer isn't receiving CC information from Loopy Pro, or Ableton Live - could be (probably is) user error. But it's like the midi CC isn't synced, so it doesn't line up with what's on the software initially.

  • @greatestlengths said:

    @joshelliott said:

    Seventh one (Josh Elliott) - again, bedroom/home situation with headphones.. but it shows very clearly how things would go live.

    That one is me. I agree 100% about headphones or in ears at gigs. Although I do wear them at home as in this video I don’t use them at gigs and I don’t use a click track either. I strongly dislike the idea of a click track and prefer to let my first loop set the tempo. I gigged with Loopy Pro all summer and have hours of video footage but haven’t had the time or interest in posting it. I also have an RC-600 but don’t hate it as much as you. In fact I quite like it but it is very limited in comparison to Loopy. It’s been about 4 months since your post. How are you getting on with the looping set up?

    I've been gigging both the 600 and Loopy Pro recently, and I find Loopy Pro way better. I took the 600 to the local music store the other day, as it's been faulty - one of the dials on it is busted, among other things (it crashed a couple of times at gigs too)..

    ..I was able to set the 600 up the way I wanted to, almost.. no way to have a dedicated "undo selected track" option, it only has a simple undo/redo function. Which is perfectly fine, I mean how often does anyone need to undo selected track multiple times (without a redo btw) anyway.. but, I just like it working a certain way..

    I've got Loopy Pro working functionally exactly how I want, it's awesome for solo acoustic gigs and I've played a heap of gigs with it, I haven't had any issues whatsoever with it functionally at gigs. I did work on my basic setup over the course of a few gigs to get it where I wanted.

    I don't have the LEDs on my Nektar Pacer lining up perfectly with it though - this is annoying as heck and I don't know how to get around it. It's also like it doesn't sync the CC values when I change presets on the Pacer, so when I swap from a "recording" mode to a "play" mode, I have to double-tap the buttons to mute/unmute the tracks and this is a total pain to deal with.. these two issues are able to be worked around, I've just been dealing with them as I haven't had time in the last little while to sort it out.

    I've also been using Ableton Live's looper plugin and that's okay but it suffers from the same issue as the 600 - no simple way to "undo selected track".. there IS a way around it, but it's by created a bunch of presets on the Pacer, one for each "track" I'm recording to, and then having the undo button on each of those, correspond to that tracks undo button. It works but I'm not a fan of using so many presets, as at any point something could go wrong, I don't really trust swapping presets so often to work all the time.. not crazy comfortable with that idea at paid gigs. But it works. I still have the double-tap issue though on Ableton, for the same thing - mute/unmute tracks. I think this is either a Pacer issue, or it's a me issue. IDK which yet.

    Loopy Pro has the "peel" function, which can be set to undo-only + it can be set to affect the selected track. This means it works the way I want.

    I've found Loopy Pro to be the easiest of them all to get where I want, and it feels the most reliable to me when using at a gig - but, I've got so much stuff on the MacBook that I really want to take to gigs - the whole Native Instruments Komplete 14 Ultimate for a start (I'd start gigging keys then, too).. so I'm also kinda hanging out for Loopy Pro to come to Mac..

    But with Loopy Pro - definitely done a number of gigs, I haven't had any major fails - I haven't even messed up with the double-tap muting/unmuting issue at a gig, haven't failed anything because of LEDs not lining up either, I seem to be pretty on the ball with keeping track of where I'm at with all that. Would still love for it to work properly, because it's something I'm having to consciously track as I play and I don't want that.

    I've also been using Loopy Pro just as a host for some FX as well, I've done a couple of gigs without using the Pacer - just running mic and guitars into Loopy Pro, and using some delays and reverbs etc that I want - as well as THU-Overloud for some electric guitar tones (nice to mix it up sometimes live)... this works beautifully, Loopy Pro seems great used like this too.

    So there's still some things to sort out for me before it's perfect, but I've already been gigging a "functional" version of the looper I want. Which is basically just Ed Sheeran's Chewie II. I'm not crazy on the Pacer's physical buttons, or the 600s.. I wish the whole MIDI board I was using was way bigger, not a fan of having to be careful about where I'm stepping.. nothing to do with Loopy Pro, I might even be better served by creating my own pedalboard at some point, using individual larger pedals. I don't want to straight up rip off Ed Sheeran's setup, I do really like the workflow though and I do want bigger pedals :/

    The 600, I want a refund on. It's awesome in theory but in practice, I just don't like it.. I keep trying, but I simply don't like using it.. it doesn't feel reliable to me. It doesn't feel like a BOSS-quality tank. Crashing on me at gigs + a busted dial within such a short time of owning it is just unacceptable. I'd rather get my money back and put it towards other things I could upgrade or whatever.

    Glad to hear Loopy has been working out for you. I don’t like switching modes on my controllers while performing. It gets to be too distracting and creates room for error. On the downside I have to use more controllers than I would like. I’m on the never ending quest to simplify my set up and make tear down/set up fast and easy while still keeping performance and functionality in mind. I also like big buttons which is why I’m still with the Pacer. I have most of my hardware ready to sell off at this point including my RC-600.

    Happy gigging

  • I am unclear as to whether you are saying that Loopy isn’t responding to the first cc sent (in which case use a midi monitor AU loaded in Loopy to see if the cc is being received). If it is, you would want to check how your midi bindings are set up.

    A demonstration with screen shots might help us be able to help you figure out what is happening.

    Except for a few devices like the Launchpad or Akai APC, loopy just echoes back midi back to controllers. It doesn’t track the Pacer’s state or send complete state info. So, if you switch Pacer patches, Loopy doesn’t know anything about refreshing the Pacer’s state as far as I know.

  • @espiegel123 said:
    I am unclear as to whether you are saying that Loopy isn’t responding to the first cc sent (in which case use a midi monitor AU loaded in Loopy to see if the cc is being received). If it is, you would want to check how your midi bindings are set up.

    A demonstration with screen shots might help us be able to help you figure out what is happening.

    Except for a few devices like the Launchpad or Akai APC, loopy just echoes back midi back to controllers. It doesn’t track the Pacer’s state or send complete state info. So, if you switch Pacer patches, Loopy doesn’t know anything about refreshing the Pacer’s state as far as I know.

    I could get screenshots but they wouldn't explain this issue any more than writing it.

    Basically, I have "Record" and "Play" presets on my Nektar Pacer.

    The "Record" preset is for recording and clip/track selection primarily. The "Play" mode swaps some of the buttons on the Pacer to different things - the one that's causing issues is mute/unmute tracks.

    In "Play" mode, the 4 buttons that were "select track" in "Record" mode, act as mute/unmute toggles for the same tracks.

    This means I can record everything I want in "Record" mode, and then swap to "Play" mode for performing the song - IE muting tracks (kicking things out for a verse or whatever), unmuting tracks.. etc.. it's where I go after the loops have been laid, and then I use this mode for playing the song.

    When I swap from "Record" mode to "Play" mode - I always, always have to press the "mute/unmute" button twice for it to do anything - the first tap seems to do nothing. This is the same across all tracks, and it's repeatable on demand - all I have to do is swap presets and swap back, and I'll have to do it again.

    My thinking is that the Pacer sets the MIDI CCs to either 0 or 127 (can't remember which) every single time I enter "Play" mode - I will test this later on to confirm, because if this is the case, I should be able to mute the tracks individually on Loopy Pro, and see them all unmute when I change presets to the "Play" preset on the Pacer. Or vica versa (ie unmute tracks individually, and they should all mute when I swap presets, if this is the issue).

    This is more important to me than the LEDs not lining up - I can use the iPad as a visual indicator, and I'm good at keeping track of what's muted/unmuted/recording etc (though I'd love the LEDs to line up perfectly..)..

    That's the issue there though - the very first press of the Pacer buttons, that correspond to mute/unmute on Loopy Pro, seem to do nothing, when I first enter the "Play" preset. Once I'm in, and press each mute/unmute button once - then it's perfectly fine, works as I want, for the duration that I'm in that preset.

    Some songs, I might want to lay down some overdubs, or add new tracks halfway through or whatever - this means I have to swap back to "Record" preset on the Pacer, and that then means going back to "Play" refreshes this issue.. so I have to tap them all once before they start "working".

    It also means each and every time I change songs - which is 40+ times per gig.. after laying the loops down, I always have to deal with this issue. It's annoying.

    I haven't messed up live yet, but I would love this to be something that I don't have to deal with - it might be user error.

    I'm happy to record a video, where I can physically demonstrate what's going on on both Loopy Pro and the Pacer - but I'm not sure it's needed. It's probably having something set up wrong.. idk..

    But I feel the main issue is, swapping Pacer presets somehow "resets" the MIDI CC value.. so no matter what is on Loopy Pro.. the Pacer needs to be tapped to swap from 0 to 127 and back to 0 etc.. idk.

  • @joshelliott said:

    @greatestlengths said:

    @joshelliott said:

    Seventh one (Josh Elliott) - again, bedroom/home situation with headphones.. but it shows very clearly how things would go live.

    That one is me. I agree 100% about headphones or in ears at gigs. Although I do wear them at home as in this video I don’t use them at gigs and I don’t use a click track either. I strongly dislike the idea of a click track and prefer to let my first loop set the tempo. I gigged with Loopy Pro all summer and have hours of video footage but haven’t had the time or interest in posting it. I also have an RC-600 but don’t hate it as much as you. In fact I quite like it but it is very limited in comparison to Loopy. It’s been about 4 months since your post. How are you getting on with the looping set up?

    I've been gigging both the 600 and Loopy Pro recently, and I find Loopy Pro way better. I took the 600 to the local music store the other day, as it's been faulty - one of the dials on it is busted, among other things (it crashed a couple of times at gigs too)..

    ..I was able to set the 600 up the way I wanted to, almost.. no way to have a dedicated "undo selected track" option, it only has a simple undo/redo function. Which is perfectly fine, I mean how often does anyone need to undo selected track multiple times (without a redo btw) anyway.. but, I just like it working a certain way..

    I've got Loopy Pro working functionally exactly how I want, it's awesome for solo acoustic gigs and I've played a heap of gigs with it, I haven't had any issues whatsoever with it functionally at gigs. I did work on my basic setup over the course of a few gigs to get it where I wanted.

    I don't have the LEDs on my Nektar Pacer lining up perfectly with it though - this is annoying as heck and I don't know how to get around it. It's also like it doesn't sync the CC values when I change presets on the Pacer, so when I swap from a "recording" mode to a "play" mode, I have to double-tap the buttons to mute/unmute the tracks and this is a total pain to deal with.. these two issues are able to be worked around, I've just been dealing with them as I haven't had time in the last little while to sort it out.

    I've also been using Ableton Live's looper plugin and that's okay but it suffers from the same issue as the 600 - no simple way to "undo selected track".. there IS a way around it, but it's by created a bunch of presets on the Pacer, one for each "track" I'm recording to, and then having the undo button on each of those, correspond to that tracks undo button. It works but I'm not a fan of using so many presets, as at any point something could go wrong, I don't really trust swapping presets so often to work all the time.. not crazy comfortable with that idea at paid gigs. But it works. I still have the double-tap issue though on Ableton, for the same thing - mute/unmute tracks. I think this is either a Pacer issue, or it's a me issue. IDK which yet.

    Loopy Pro has the "peel" function, which can be set to undo-only + it can be set to affect the selected track. This means it works the way I want.

    I've found Loopy Pro to be the easiest of them all to get where I want, and it feels the most reliable to me when using at a gig - but, I've got so much stuff on the MacBook that I really want to take to gigs - the whole Native Instruments Komplete 14 Ultimate for a start (I'd start gigging keys then, too).. so I'm also kinda hanging out for Loopy Pro to come to Mac..

    But with Loopy Pro - definitely done a number of gigs, I haven't had any major fails - I haven't even messed up with the double-tap muting/unmuting issue at a gig, haven't failed anything because of LEDs not lining up either, I seem to be pretty on the ball with keeping track of where I'm at with all that. Would still love for it to work properly, because it's something I'm having to consciously track as I play and I don't want that.

    I've also been using Loopy Pro just as a host for some FX as well, I've done a couple of gigs without using the Pacer - just running mic and guitars into Loopy Pro, and using some delays and reverbs etc that I want - as well as THU-Overloud for some electric guitar tones (nice to mix it up sometimes live)... this works beautifully, Loopy Pro seems great used like this too.

    So there's still some things to sort out for me before it's perfect, but I've already been gigging a "functional" version of the looper I want. Which is basically just Ed Sheeran's Chewie II. I'm not crazy on the Pacer's physical buttons, or the 600s.. I wish the whole MIDI board I was using was way bigger, not a fan of having to be careful about where I'm stepping.. nothing to do with Loopy Pro, I might even be better served by creating my own pedalboard at some point, using individual larger pedals. I don't want to straight up rip off Ed Sheeran's setup, I do really like the workflow though and I do want bigger pedals :/

    The 600, I want a refund on. It's awesome in theory but in practice, I just don't like it.. I keep trying, but I simply don't like using it.. it doesn't feel reliable to me. It doesn't feel like a BOSS-quality tank. Crashing on me at gigs + a busted dial within such a short time of owning it is just unacceptable. I'd rather get my money back and put it towards other things I could upgrade or whatever.

    Glad to hear Loopy has been working out for you. I don’t like switching modes on my controllers while performing. It gets to be too distracting and creates room for error. On the downside I have to use more controllers than I would like. I’m on the never ending quest to simplify my set up and make tear down/set up fast and easy while still keeping performance and functionality in mind. I also like big buttons which is why I’m still with the Pacer. I have most of my hardware ready to sell off at this point including my RC-600.

    Happy gigging

    Yeah agreed. I don't think the Pacer buttons are "big buttons" though - I wish it was more like.. RC-30 buttons or something, or any ordinary sustain pedal size.. just big "no chance of messing up" buttons.

    Completely agree on not liking switching modes - there's no other way around what I'm doing though, besides using a second controller. I could use the 600 as a MIDI controller, as dumb as that sounds - it works great as one, actually. But then I'd have 2x big foot pedals at my feet.. and I prefer less bs in the way.

  • Have you considered implementing the switching modes within loopy instead of doing it on the pacer itself? You can have as many control profiles as you want, and turn them on and off separately, so you can implement banks and all sorts of things. Here’s an example:

  • @greatestlengths said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    I am unclear as to whether you are saying that Loopy isn’t responding to the first cc sent (in which case use a midi monitor AU loaded in Loopy to see if the cc is being received). If it is, you would want to check how your midi bindings are set up.

    A demonstration with screen shots might help us be able to help you figure out what is happening.

    Except for a few devices like the Launchpad or Akai APC, loopy just echoes back midi back to controllers. It doesn’t track the Pacer’s state or send complete state info. So, if you switch Pacer patches, Loopy doesn’t know anything about refreshing the Pacer’s state as far as I know.

    I could get screenshots but they wouldn't explain this issue any more than writing it.

    Basically, I have "Record" and "Play" presets on my Nektar Pacer.

    The "Record" preset is for recording and clip/track selection primarily. The "Play" mode swaps some of the buttons on the Pacer to different things - the one that's causing issues is mute/unmute tracks.

    In "Play" mode, the 4 buttons that were "select track" in "Record" mode, act as mute/unmute toggles for the same tracks.

    This means I can record everything I want in "Record" mode, and then swap to "Play" mode for performing the song - IE muting tracks (kicking things out for a verse or whatever), unmuting tracks.. etc.. it's where I go after the loops have been laid, and then I use this mode for playing the song.

    When I swap from "Record" mode to "Play" mode - I always, always have to press the "mute/unmute" button twice for it to do anything - the first tap seems to do nothing. This is the same across all tracks, and it's repeatable on demand - all I have to do is swap presets and swap back, and I'll have to do it again.

    My thinking is that the Pacer sets the MIDI CCs to either 0 or 127 (can't remember which) every single time I enter "Play" mode - I will test this later on to confirm, because if this is the case, I should be able to mute the tracks individually on Loopy Pro, and see them all unmute when I change presets to the "Play" preset on the Pacer. Or vica versa (ie unmute tracks individually, and they should all mute when I swap presets, if this is the issue).

    This is more important to me than the LEDs not lining up - I can use the iPad as a visual indicator, and I'm good at keeping track of what's muted/unmuted/recording etc (though I'd love the LEDs to line up perfectly..)..

    That's the issue there though - the very first press of the Pacer buttons, that correspond to mute/unmute on Loopy Pro, seem to do nothing, when I first enter the "Play" preset. Once I'm in, and press each mute/unmute button once - then it's perfectly fine, works as I want, for the duration that I'm in that preset.

    Some songs, I might want to lay down some overdubs, or add new tracks halfway through or whatever - this means I have to swap back to "Record" preset on the Pacer, and that then means going back to "Play" refreshes this issue.. so I have to tap them all once before they start "working".

    It also means each and every time I change songs - which is 40+ times per gig.. after laying the loops down, I always have to deal with this issue. It's annoying.

    I haven't messed up live yet, but I would love this to be something that I don't have to deal with - it might be user error.

    I'm happy to record a video, where I can physically demonstrate what's going on on both Loopy Pro and the Pacer - but I'm not sure it's needed. It's probably having something set up wrong.. idk..

    But I feel the main issue is, swapping Pacer presets somehow "resets" the MIDI CC value.. so no matter what is on Loopy Pro.. the Pacer needs to be tapped to swap from 0 to 127 and back to 0 etc.. idk.

    To understand, we need to know what gets sent by your Pacer when you select those presets and seeing your midi bindings.

    When you send a midi cc to loopy, it triggers an action. Loopy does not keep track of what you sent in the past. You need to set up your bindings to respond to what you will send.

    My guess is that you may need to adjust what your Pacer is sending or how your bindings are set up.

  • @Michael said:
    Have you considered implementing the switching modes within loopy instead of doing it on the pacer itself? You can have as many control profiles as you want, and turn them on and off separately, so you can implement banks and all sorts of things. Here’s an example:

    I didn't even know Loopy Pro could do this - that would work functionally the way I want, the LEDs wouldn't work out how I'd like them on the Pacer though. I'll still give it a shot anyway and see how it goes.

    With the LEDs, I'm only after simple stuff - in "record" mode, I want the track/donut/clip I've selected to be red when selected, and the ones that aren't selected are off.. and I'd like the record LED button to light up red when it's recording as well.. in "play" mode, I want the LEDs to light up green when the tracks are unmuted.

    I don't think that's possible doing it all in Loopy, because the Pacer is where the LED colours can be changed on a per-preset basis.. I'll still explore the control profile approach because it seems cool to explore.

  • @greatestlengths said:

    @Michael said:
    Have you considered implementing the switching modes within loopy instead of doing it on the pacer itself? You can have as many control profiles as you want, and turn them on and off separately, so you can implement banks and all sorts of things. Here’s an example:

    I didn't even know Loopy Pro could do this - that would work functionally the way I want, the LEDs wouldn't work out how I'd like them on the Pacer though. I'll still give it a shot anyway and see how it goes.

    With the LEDs, I'm only after simple stuff - in "record" mode, I want the track/donut/clip I've selected to be red when selected, and the ones that aren't selected are off.. and I'd like the record LED button to light up red when it's recording as well.. in "play" mode, I want the LEDs to light up green when the tracks are unmuted.

    I don't think that's possible doing it all in Loopy, because the Pacer is where the LED colours can be changed on a per-preset basis.. I'll still explore the control profile approach because it seems cool to explore.

    Some people use follow actions on clips to send midi to their hardware in order to setup status lights; you could try that, perhaps.

  • I spent late last year and early this helping Hue & Cry set up their Loopy Pro rig for their radio gigs and small venue gigs where it’s only the two them on stage.
    I think Greg also uses it with the full band now for effects and stuff too.

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