Mela Synth (All Numbers) Mega Thread

Gavinski

As for why I have that opinion, by the way, it's because the many times the subject has been brought up here, I didn't see devs stepping in to say either 'yes we do get charged actually, you're wrong' or 'no we don't get charged, you're right'. I always found that strange. So I think my view is credible but yes it is speculation.

brambos

@Gavinski said:

@brambos said:

@Gavinski said:
In the past I think many devs preferred to stay silent on this matter as many preferred the idea of users being reluctant to seek refunds.

Wow, can you back that statement up with facts?

But you can definitely please let us know what your experience is - do devs lose money when a user requests a refund? Always / never / sometimes? Has it changed over the years? Would be great to hear your experience Bram

I don't believe anyone really knows. The financial overviews in Apple's dashboard are very opaque.

Proceeds for apps differ in each country/region. After Apple are done subtracting the local VAT/taxes/duties, their share and currency conversions you're pretty much left with a black box figure.

I do know that on days where I see negative sales (due to refunds) I see figures that I find hard to explain. Sure, they could be explained by significant currency fluctuations between the moment of sale and the moment of refund, but I'm skeptical.

From their point of view they still provided a financial/fiscal service, so it wouldn't surprise me if they charged something for that. But as I said, I don't have any conclusive evidence.

And perhaps I don't even want to know as I can't change much about people's refunding habits and knowing it for a fact may be a bit demotivating.

dendy

@Gavinski @Nikolozi

did a bit of googling .. should do it years ago :-))
https://www.revenuecat.com/blog/growth/does-apple-keep-its-commission/

TLDR: Apple might keep it (it is mentioned in their rules) but they probably doesn’t. :-)

But as everything wih Apple - never take anything “for sure”. They change rules as they want, anytime they want.
(that’s also why i never jumo on LPX subscription train)

Gavinski

Exactly... So my understanding is that refunds do not generally harm devs and I think people should pursue them without guilt for apps, seeing as we generally can't demo them.

@dendy said:
@Gavinski @Nikolozi

did a bit of googling .. should do it years ago :-))
https://www.revenuecat.com/blog/growth/does-apple-keep-its-commission/

TLDR: Apple might keep it (it is mentioned in their rules) but probably it doesn’t. :-)

But as everything wih Apple - never take anything as “for sure”. They change rules as rhey want, anytime they want.
(that’s also why i never jumo on LPX subscription train)

dendy

Actually there is way how to make “trial” for years but no idea if there is some catch which makes it more complicated to use it ..

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/06/05/app-store-app-free-trials-now-available/

TLDR: basically lock some features and make $0 in-app purchse which unlocks them all for short time (you can create time-limited in-app purchases)

Gavinski

@dendy said:
Actually there is way how to make “trial” for years but no idea if there is some catch which makes it more complicated to use it ..

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/06/05/app-store-app-free-trials-now-available/

TLDR: basically lock some features and make $0 in-app purchse which unlocks them all for short time (you can create time-limited in-app purchases)

No idea! Interesting. I guess for devs, demos are a double edged sword. Given how addicted many people here are to wanting to try every new app I sometimes suspect that devs would sell less if there were more demos. It may well end up a bit like games, where people demo something, fidget around with it for a few days, then end up realising they don't really need it and move on to the next shiny toy. Anyway, we're detailing Niko's thread a bit, so should probably move this discussion to another thread if necessary, sorry Niko!

dendy

Anyway, we're detailing Niko's thread a bit, so should probably move this discussion to another thread if necessary, sorry Niko!

This, sorry for offtopic !

Nikolozi

@dendy said:

Anyway, we're detailing Niko's thread a bit, so should probably move this discussion to another thread if necessary, sorry Niko!

This, sorry for offtopic !

All good... it's good to be aware of possible issues. Though as Bram said, what Apple does with our finances is somewhat opaque.

Nikolozi

@HotStrange said:

@Nikolozi said:
Just a quick additional comment regarding polyphony. It's still possible to "simulate" polyphony or not even try to simulate, but have each note sound different. For example, in the next bug fix update 4.0.1 which I will release soon, there will be a preset called "Infinite Composer". You just press a single key and it keeps generating an infinite arpeggiated sequence. Depending on the generated random key it's routed to one of 3 instrument lanes, they all use different synthesis methods to generate sounds. They can produce notes simultaneously. This preset was used to create the sound bed for the Mela 4 intro video. So, what I mean is that even without polyphony you can create a lot of interesting synth presets or even algorithmic composers.

That’s really cool! So it’s doing a round Robin thing and cycling or it’s playing a different key with each Oscillator section?

Submitted Mela 4.0.1 to the App Store and waiting for Apple's approval. So, it will probably be clearer how it works once you open the "Infinite Composer" preset. But briefly, I can maybe explain with some screenshots.

Lane 1 is generating random notes, and Lanes 2, 3 and 4 take these random notes and filter out undesired notes using the Scale module. For example, Lane 2 filters out all notes but C D# and G#. Each of these lanes then sends its MIDI notes to one of the 3 instrument lanes.

Lanes 5, 6 and 7 are instrument lanes. Each of them receives notes from one of the lanes. e.g. Lane 5 only gets notes from Lane 2 (i.e. C, D# & G#). These lanes have completely different synthesis chains to generate sounds, so they sound quite different.

Then they are all fed into Lane 8 for some final audio processing, some delays and compression.

The Krazy Wabbit

My full time day job in the real word is a PM in the tech space. I've dabbled lightly in coding and have a high level understanding when having the conversation with devs on our projects. I see the business side of things combined with customer expectations, it's a very cut throat world. I was also a consultant in healthcare IT after I left the hospital working as a RN. The expectation from clinicians and software devs is similar to this space.

For some in this space, I hear it's a passion, hobby, side gig, etc. A few do it full time.

To @Nikolozi and to all devs, thank you. I have zero idea what you through and I can imagine based on what I see in my space, yikes. I complain like everyone else but when my old man fist stops shaking, I try to remind myself there are devs who are doing fantastic work that allow me as a non musician with zero ability to play an instrument, the opportunity. For that, I am forever grateful.

Nikolozi

@The Krazy Wabbit said:
My full time day job in the real word is a PM in the tech space. I've dabbled lightly in coding and have a high level understanding when having the conversation with devs on our projects. I see the business side of things combined with customer expectations, it's a very cut throat world. I was also a consultant in healthcare IT after I left the hospital working as a RN. The expectation from clinicians and software devs is similar to this space.

For some in this space, I hear it's a passion, hobby, side gig, etc. A few do it full time.

To @Nikolozi and to all devs, thank you. I have zero idea what you through and I can imagine based on what I see in my space, yikes. I complain like everyone else but when my old man fist stops shaking, I try to remind myself there are devs who are doing fantastic work that allow me as a non musician with zero ability to play an instrument, the opportunity. For that, I am forever grateful.

I appreciate you saying this. For me, and I'm certain, for most of the audio devs here, we are doing this for the love of it. And it's def not the money. I earn significantly more when I'm working for big boring companies.
Working on the audio and music apps is so much fun and enjoyable. Don't think there's anything more fun out there. Maybe making actual music is more fun

Gavinski

@Nikolozi said:

@HotStrange said:

@Nikolozi said:
Just a quick additional comment regarding polyphony. It's still possible to "simulate" polyphony or not even try to simulate, but have each note sound different. For example, in the next bug fix update 4.0.1 which I will release soon, there will be a preset called "Infinite Composer". You just press a single key and it keeps generating an infinite arpeggiated sequence. Depending on the generated random key it's routed to one of 3 instrument lanes, they all use different synthesis methods to generate sounds. They can produce notes simultaneously. This preset was used to create the sound bed for the Mela 4 intro video. So, what I mean is that even without polyphony you can create a lot of interesting synth presets or even algorithmic composers.

That’s really cool! So it’s doing a round Robin thing and cycling or it’s playing a different key with each Oscillator section?

Submitted Mela 4.0.1 to the App Store and waiting for Apple's approval. So, it will probably be clearer how it works once you open the "Infinite Composer" preset. But briefly, I can maybe explain with some screenshots.

Lane 1 is generating random notes, and Lanes 2, 3 and 4 take these random notes and filter out undesired notes using the Scale module. For example, Lane 2 filters out all notes but C D# and G#. Each of these lanes then sends its MIDI notes to one of the 3 instrument lanes.

Lanes 5, 6 and 7 are instrument lanes. Each of them receives notes from one of the lanes. e.g. Lane 5 only gets notes from Lane 2 (i.e. C, D# & G#). These lanes have completely different synthesis chains to generate sounds, so they sound quite different.

Then they are all fed into Lane 8 for some final audio processing, some delays and compression.

Very cool!

tja

It may help to separate the lanes a bit more, so that they can more easily be seen as "lanes", @Nikolozi

Just an idea after those screenshots and the thoughts from @dendy

Nikolozi

@tja said:
It may help to separate the lanes a bit more, so that they can more easily be seen as "lanes", @Nikolozi

Just an idea after those screenshots and the thoughts from @dendy

Yeah, it's worth experimenting with the UI. With Mela, UI is always evolving. In the future, lanes will become collapsable, users would be able to name them etc. So, there might be more UI elements that make it clearer that they are lanes.

Jumpercollins

@Nikolozi said:

@tja said:
It may help to separate the lanes a bit more, so that they can more easily be seen as "lanes", @Nikolozi

Just an idea after those screenshots and the thoughts from @dendy

Yeah, it's worth experimenting with the UI. With Mela, UI is always evolving. In the future, lanes will become collapsable, users would be able to name them etc. So, there might be more UI elements that make it clearer that they are lanes.

Yes the ability to name them by number or function would be a welcome addition.

HotStrange

@Nikolozi said:

@HotStrange said:

@Nikolozi said:
Just a quick additional comment regarding polyphony. It's still possible to "simulate" polyphony or not even try to simulate, but have each note sound different. For example, in the next bug fix update 4.0.1 which I will release soon, there will be a preset called "Infinite Composer". You just press a single key and it keeps generating an infinite arpeggiated sequence. Depending on the generated random key it's routed to one of 3 instrument lanes, they all use different synthesis methods to generate sounds. They can produce notes simultaneously. This preset was used to create the sound bed for the Mela 4 intro video. So, what I mean is that even without polyphony you can create a lot of interesting synth presets or even algorithmic composers.

That’s really cool! So it’s doing a round Robin thing and cycling or it’s playing a different key with each Oscillator section?

Submitted Mela 4.0.1 to the App Store and waiting for Apple's approval. So, it will probably be clearer how it works once you open the "Infinite Composer" preset. But briefly, I can maybe explain with some screenshots.

Lane 1 is generating random notes, and Lanes 2, 3 and 4 take these random notes and filter out undesired notes using the Scale module. For example, Lane 2 filters out all notes but C D# and G#. Each of these lanes then sends its MIDI notes to one of the 3 instrument lanes.

Lanes 5, 6 and 7 are instrument lanes. Each of them receives notes from one of the lanes. e.g. Lane 5 only gets notes from Lane 2 (i.e. C, D# & G#). These lanes have completely different synthesis chains to generate sounds, so they sound quite different.

Then they are all fed into Lane 8 for some final audio processing, some delays and compression.

Insanely cool! Thanks for the explanation. Was messing around with Mela 4 last night and it’s definitely a worthy upgrade. Even just in mono mode I was making some crazy sounds.

johnfromberkeley

@Nikolozi said:

@johnfromberkeley said:
I wonder if the rapid releases are just a business strategy.

At one point like other plug-in developers, I used to release separate apps/plug-ins (NS1, NFM, NPD, MIDI Sketch). But what I wasn't happy about is that when I was working on a new app I didn't have time to improve the existing apps. So, sometimes they would feel abandoned, especially during the times when I was doing full-time contract work for other companies.

So, I decided the best way to go forward was to fully focus on one product where I could put all my energy in, make it the best it can be and add all interesting synthesis, FX and MIDI composition features into it. And that's Mela. I use it to make music and I hope others find it useful too. Now I understand it may not be for everyone, which is cool. There are a lot of great apps/plug-ins out there. But to me, it's very important for the product to be constantly evolving and moving forward. And yes, I usually try to push out a Mela update every 4-8 weeks with many new features. This allows me to receive feedback from users and improve it constantly based on feedback.

If so, I would much rather have a Loopy Pro model, where improvements come to the same app.

I have my reasons why I prefer my approach, i.e. major update annually over say Loopy Pros. But I would like to hear why you prefer it to see if I can address your concern.

(And to be clear, both approaches are workarounds to the App Store not offering upgrade pricing).

Just so you know, I bought it immediately. Your apps rock.

Nikolozi

@HotStrange said:

@Nikolozi said:

@HotStrange said:

@Nikolozi said:
Just a quick additional comment regarding polyphony. It's still possible to "simulate" polyphony or not even try to simulate, but have each note sound different. For example, in the next bug fix update 4.0.1 which I will release soon, there will be a preset called "Infinite Composer". You just press a single key and it keeps generating an infinite arpeggiated sequence. Depending on the generated random key it's routed to one of 3 instrument lanes, they all use different synthesis methods to generate sounds. They can produce notes simultaneously. This preset was used to create the sound bed for the Mela 4 intro video. So, what I mean is that even without polyphony you can create a lot of interesting synth presets or even algorithmic composers.

That’s really cool! So it’s doing a round Robin thing and cycling or it’s playing a different key with each Oscillator section?

Submitted Mela 4.0.1 to the App Store and waiting for Apple's approval. So, it will probably be clearer how it works once you open the "Infinite Composer" preset. But briefly, I can maybe explain with some screenshots.

Lane 1 is generating random notes, and Lanes 2, 3 and 4 take these random notes and filter out undesired notes using the Scale module. For example, Lane 2 filters out all notes but C D# and G#. Each of these lanes then sends its MIDI notes to one of the 3 instrument lanes.

Lanes 5, 6 and 7 are instrument lanes. Each of them receives notes from one of the lanes. e.g. Lane 5 only gets notes from Lane 2 (i.e. C, D# & G#). These lanes have completely different synthesis chains to generate sounds, so they sound quite different.

Then they are all fed into Lane 8 for some final audio processing, some delays and compression.

Insanely cool! Thanks for the explanation. Was messing around with Mela 4 last night and it’s definitely a worthy upgrade. Even just in mono mode I was making some crazy sounds.

Great to hear. The 4.0.1 is already out if you wanted to try the Infinite Composer preset.

Nikolozi

@johnfromberkeley said:

@Nikolozi said:

@johnfromberkeley said:
I wonder if the rapid releases are just a business strategy.

At one point like other plug-in developers, I used to release separate apps/plug-ins (NS1, NFM, NPD, MIDI Sketch). But what I wasn't happy about is that when I was working on a new app I didn't have time to improve the existing apps. So, sometimes they would feel abandoned, especially during the times when I was doing full-time contract work for other companies.

So, I decided the best way to go forward was to fully focus on one product where I could put all my energy in, make it the best it can be and add all interesting synthesis, FX and MIDI composition features into it. And that's Mela. I use it to make music and I hope others find it useful too. Now I understand it may not be for everyone, which is cool. There are a lot of great apps/plug-ins out there. But to me, it's very important for the product to be constantly evolving and moving forward. And yes, I usually try to push out a Mela update every 4-8 weeks with many new features. This allows me to receive feedback from users and improve it constantly based on feedback.

If so, I would much rather have a Loopy Pro model, where improvements come to the same app.

I have my reasons why I prefer my approach, i.e. major update annually over say Loopy Pros. But I would like to hear why you prefer it to see if I can address your concern.

(And to be clear, both approaches are workarounds to the App Store not offering upgrade pricing).

Just so you know, I bought it immediately. Your apps rock.

Thank you 🧡

HotStrange

@Nikolozi said:

@HotStrange said:

@Nikolozi said:

@HotStrange said:

@Nikolozi said:
Just a quick additional comment regarding polyphony. It's still possible to "simulate" polyphony or not even try to simulate, but have each note sound different. For example, in the next bug fix update 4.0.1 which I will release soon, there will be a preset called "Infinite Composer". You just press a single key and it keeps generating an infinite arpeggiated sequence. Depending on the generated random key it's routed to one of 3 instrument lanes, they all use different synthesis methods to generate sounds. They can produce notes simultaneously. This preset was used to create the sound bed for the Mela 4 intro video. So, what I mean is that even without polyphony you can create a lot of interesting synth presets or even algorithmic composers.

That’s really cool! So it’s doing a round Robin thing and cycling or it’s playing a different key with each Oscillator section?

Submitted Mela 4.0.1 to the App Store and waiting for Apple's approval. So, it will probably be clearer how it works once you open the "Infinite Composer" preset. But briefly, I can maybe explain with some screenshots.

Lane 1 is generating random notes, and Lanes 2, 3 and 4 take these random notes and filter out undesired notes using the Scale module. For example, Lane 2 filters out all notes but C D# and G#. Each of these lanes then sends its MIDI notes to one of the 3 instrument lanes.

Lanes 5, 6 and 7 are instrument lanes. Each of them receives notes from one of the lanes. e.g. Lane 5 only gets notes from Lane 2 (i.e. C, D# & G#). These lanes have completely different synthesis chains to generate sounds, so they sound quite different.

Then they are all fed into Lane 8 for some final audio processing, some delays and compression.

Insanely cool! Thanks for the explanation. Was messing around with Mela 4 last night and it’s definitely a worthy upgrade. Even just in mono mode I was making some crazy sounds.

Great to hear. The 4.0.1 is already out if you wanted to try the Infinite Composer preset.

Yes 🙌🏻 about to do that now. Thanks for the help and being a part of the thread

Gavinski

Please also do let us know Nikolozi, once you've looked into it, whether you lose money when someone asks for a refund. It's important that people have their facts straight about this.

Ailerom

Anyone seen the bundle yet?

Nikolozi

@Gavinski said:
Please also do let us know Nikolozi, once you've looked into it, whether you lose money when someone asks for a refund. It's important that people have their facts straight about this.

Sure, I'll probably tweet out some thoughts . Right now it's not my priority, as I got a lot of things going atm, so it could be a while.

Nikolozi

@Ailerom said:
Anyone seen the bundle yet?

I seriously don't know what's going on. As soon as Mela 4 went live, I submitted the app bundle for Apple to approve. It's now been almost 2 days, and it's still stuck "In Review". Someone told me bundles aren't Apple's priority. I was able to submit and release the 4.0.1 update within hours. So, there could be some truth to that. Note, I couldn't create the app bundle until I released Mela 4. So I couldn't time it to be at the same time as the app. Sorry about that, I have no control over this.

tja

I'm waiting for the bundle 😅🤗

How much will it be?

Nikolozi

@tja said:
I'm waiting for the bundle 😅🤗

How much will it be?

Check the Pricing section in my blog post, I explain all in detail https://www.nikolozi.com/blog/mela-4

skiphunt

@johnfromberkeley said:

@FPC said:

@johnfromberkeley said:

@sevenape said:
Oh jesus another synth! This looks cool too!! My wallet is crying

Oh, jesus another version of Mela!

I know right! They come at you thick n fast. Too fast for me - don't feel like I've had anywhere near enough use out of 3. Or 2 or 1.

Haven't watched the video yet but I'm getting modular, build it yourself Tera Pro / Drambo vibes from this. Not sure if that's what I really want from a synth... Off to watch video now.

Edit: yep impressive modular design. Good video from the Dev too. I'm just not sure if this is for me though.

I wonder if the rapid releases are just a business strategy. If so, I would much rather have a Loopy Pro model, where improvements come to the same app.

+1

tja

@skiphunt said:

@johnfromberkeley said:

@FPC said:

@johnfromberkeley said:

@sevenape said:
Oh jesus another synth! This looks cool too!! My wallet is crying

Oh, jesus another version of Mela!

I know right! They come at you thick n fast. Too fast for me - don't feel like I've had anywhere near enough use out of 3. Or 2 or 1.

Haven't watched the video yet but I'm getting modular, build it yourself Tera Pro / Drambo vibes from this. Not sure if that's what I really want from a synth... Off to watch video now.

Edit: yep impressive modular design. Good video from the Dev too. I'm just not sure if this is for me though.

I wonder if the rapid releases are just a business strategy. If so, I would much rather have a Loopy Pro model, where improvements come to the same app.

+1

+2

tja

@Nikolozi said:

@tja said:
I'm waiting for the bundle 😅🤗

How much will it be?

Check the Pricing section in my blog post, I explain all in detail https://www.nikolozi.com/blog/mela-4

I checked this and it seems that I payed 4,99 Euro for Mela 3 😅

So: Just bought Mela 4 !

enkaytee

@tja said:

@Nikolozi said:

@tja said:
I'm waiting for the bundle 😅🤗

How much will it be?

Check the Pricing section in my blog post, I explain all in detail https://www.nikolozi.com/blog/mela-4

I checked this and it seems that I payed 4,99 Euro for Mela 3 😅

So: Just bought Mela 4 !

Yeah - same for me...