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Hi-Fi nerds: Turntable/system buying advice needed
I'm getting a turntable so I can listen to old records, and buy new ones. I don't like streaming, don't like buying MP3s, and I never really liked CDs.
I am starting totally from scratch though. I am fairly decided on a Rega Planar 2, but then things get hazy.
I have a pair of Genelec 8030s for my music-making, so I was thinking I might get another pair of those for the living room vinyl setup. But it's a grand for speakers, and then I'd still need a phone stage and a volume knob (!).
I do love the Genelecs though.
It might make more sense to get passive speakers, plus an amp that has a phono stage. I'd like to spend as little as is required to to get a setup I that never have to upgrade. I don't need super high-end, but it should be good.
Help!
Comments
How do you listen to music now?
I would recommend starting with the speakers — and studio monitors are going to be a very expensive way to a not necessarily pleasant listening experience. My dad has a pair of Ohm Walsh cabinets that I'm dreading inheriting; they sound like God, but they're the size of a husky fifth grader in a snowsuit. But these Elac bookshelf monitors seem to be pretty well regarded.
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-mp8rppluc94/p_970DB52/ELAC-Debut-2-0-B5-2.html?nrtv_cid=5b69d8cb5b92776822473aabd962ea6eef5ecd6f4296ffdf6b0448023620268d&&utm_campaign=future_7013363&nrtv_as_src=1
As for the Rega, it's beautiful but it seems really expensive, especially for a turntable without a preamp and no connectivity, which — don't you want to be able to sample from it? For sampling into a laptop or an MPC, direct drive rather than belt drive would be preferable, and a USB out wouldn't hurt.
The AudioTechnica lp120 is a not bad workhorse if you're not DJing in a club all the time, and you could easily upgrade to an Ortofon cartridge, if you're inclined.
Right now I listen to my iTunes/Apple music library on my Genelecs, from computer or iPad. I like the sound of monitors for music, but I’m aware I can probably get something better-suited for vinyl for less money.
This will be just for listening. No sampling. I sample a ton, but never other songs.
I had a NAD1020 preamp for it‘s excellent RIAA stage, version with power amp is NAD3020, a true classic, unbeatable bang for bucks ratio.
Supposedly the hifi amp with highest sales figure worldwide. Both are very affordable 2nd hand.
I‘ve used the 1020 with Roland monitors, the 3020 can drive passive speakers in regular rooms.
My bro had a Rega Planar at the time I had a Technics 1210. So about 2000 era. Iv actually got the Rega Jura's in the loft. From the same stereo setup of his but blew a cone, just plugging in a laptop, to an amp. lol.
Obviously the Rega design were flimsy ( tone arm ) Compared to 1210s.
What about an Omni.
Not sure about sound quality compared to Regas etc but at least you can scratch. No real need for a 1210 etc, with this. Plus IOS compatible.
Would drive me mad a turntable with no functionality but play records.
i have the rega planar 2 and love it!! the tone arm is anything but flimsy. they've upgraded the tone arm on the newer planar 2's
it's the RB220 custom one piece aluminum arm tube.. i will say the planar 2 is completely manual. you have to put the arm on the record and take it off when its done playing or itll just sit there snap crackle poppin until you do.. so that's something to think about. i also got rid of the felt mat and put a glass one on and it helped so much with the static.. there are a bunch of small class D amps that are cheap and sound great some with sub out and a tt preamp. cheapaudioman on youtube has many suggestions for great cheap audio and also great inexepensive speakers. like the Douk audio 5.0 tube amp or something from ayima.. usually less than 150 bucks. also sony speakers he swears by. SSCS5 200 a pair right now but on sale regularly for a lot less. sometimes 100 a pair.. hope this helps
@sigma79 No interest in scratching here. Just playing records.
@Bootsy Good point about the Planar not having auto-stop. I have no problem manually changing the belt for 45s, but auto stop might be handy.
Wow, can you still get Rega Planars.
I have the AT-LP5X - sounds great even with the supplied basic cartridge. I’ve been listening to my vinyl collection on my partner’s Technics 1210s for years and there’s a noticeable improvement. Versatile in that you have the choice of switchable phono preamp or line output and USB to connect to computer. I should also add that I listen through Genelec speakers also…
I was reading a best buy article for turntables, on What Hifi. A lot of technical bla-bla as usual, and then something struck me, when you choose for playing records, I think you choose for the music experience and not really for the fidelity of the sound. So you could just buy a middle class turntable and be done with it.
Because when you want high fidelity you could go back to a high end DAC and that kind of stuff.
On a side note, my problem with a turntable is the price of a proper record, 40-50 euro these days? If the price was 50% of that it would be more realistic for me to get a turntable.
The fixation on the turntable is really fascinating, and the Planar is beautiful-looking. I guess maybe if you didn't grow up with vinyl, it stands as a huge signifier for the Record Listening Experience. But truly, it's the least important component in the system after speakers and amplifier.
Ok.
What about the kickstarters for record cutters?
Odd - back in the days when I had disposable income the conventional wisdom in audiophile circles was that the source (ie turntable back then) was the MOST important part of the system as the speakers and amp could only ever be as good as the input to the system.
Net result being a Linn LP12 naim 42/110 and linn kan speakers (on metal stands with floor spikes). I still have the turntable and amp but these days I’m too lazy to keep walking across the room to turn lps over!
That was a very nice high-end system, must have cost thousands.
Back in the early 90s I had a more modest system: Systemdek iix turntable, Musical Fidelty B1 amp, and Linn Index speakers. You had to lift the platter and move the belt if you wanted to play 45s.
I think back then there was some truth to that, because high-end turntables were not that common, and were obviously a lot better than the cheaper ones. Nowadays it's definitely the transducer (speakers or headphones) that makes the most difference. Digital sources are all pretty high-quality, and the same goes for amps. Amp design is relatively straightforward and it's not difficult to design an amp that reproduces a signal faithfully. People will argue about the qualities of amps and DACs etc but in blind testing it's impossible to tell most of them apart, which is not the case with speakers and/or headphones.
The air is the most important part of the system – acoustics rely on air as the medium
If you’re relying on standard air, you can’t possibly be getting the best out of your hi-fi system, the air you have lying around in the rooms in your house is old, stale, lacking in energy and won’t sound very good at all
To get the best out of hifi you have to buy proper air, accurately calibrated to be mixed correctly, contain the correct amount of contaminants and purified to allow transmission with minimum impedance and bias
Air that has been smiled at, enthusiastically charged with phlogiston-coated dancing gloves, and above all has never been exposed to politics or philosophy, is the most immediate and lively air to use – it’s expensive, but it’s worth it if you want the best
The correct answer.
After your post, I dove back into the discourse, so–called, and I realize that a lot of my assumptions were tailored to fit my circumstances. I was never a true audiophile (though I do regret losing track of my Bang&Olufsen Beogram turntable, which was mostly valuable because it’s very light tonearm would never skip!). It seems there’s a 60-40 split between the turntable-is-the-most-vital (the Source-itsts) and those who say the opposite. So mea culpa.
That said, I was listening to Husker Du singles and dodgy Portuguese New Order imports, so true high fidelity might have been lost on me.
Hi Fi nerds might be interested in this article from a recent Harper's issue:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ey2rga64u9zxq2s/Corner Club Cathedral Cocoon, by Sasha Frere-Jones.pdf?dl=0
All my analogue gear is mid-priced and modest, except the cartridge. THAT is the linchpin
What is a good cartridge these days? I remember the Shure V15 was the standard for years.
The trouble with these classic cartridges is that it‘s almost impossible to get a proper replacement stylus. A never used (nos) one from the 70s doesn‘t help because the rubber changed over the decades, so it doesn‘t match design specs anymore.
Modern clones are a hit and miss affair: I remember a replacement that was even worse than the one supposed to be replaced.
Anyway, whatever the choice: stylus and tonearm must match and should be precisely adjusted.
Back in the day, high-end Stanton’s were my cartridges of choice. Now, Audio Technica still has a good rep.
EDIT: https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/at-vm95en
This is excellent, and quite an eye- (or ear-) opener. Original non-PDF article here:
https://harpers.org/archive/2022/12/corner-club-cathedral-cocoon-audiophilia-and-its-discontents/
Absolutley right. Has to be free range, grass-fed air.
It's like "pro" apps...
Interesting article. Thank you.
If any of you have time to kill do a Google search on "japanese listening rooms".
Some pretty interesting rooms people have built...
A guy I used to live next door to had a pair of 6-feet tall horn speakers that he rescued from an old cinema, and he used them as his stereo speakers in his living room. Listening to them was quite an experience: the music just hung in the air in front of you.
Did he need a special high power amp to run them?
No, horns require very little amplification because the horn itself acts like an amplifier. The actual transducers are tiny, located at the bottom end of the horn.