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Recommend a glitchy envelope filter…

edited November 2022 in General App Discussion

I’m looking for an impolite envelope filter with unpredictable glitches like the old Mutron pedals. I pump long volume swells with a steel guitar and a volume pedal so this won’t be for anything quick like funk guitar strumming or drums.

I’m using the envelope follower in THU Overloud and it’s actually pretty good (it glitches occasionally), but I’m looking for something more configurable that, hopefully, has a visual representation of the input source and envelope so I can better tweak the settings.

I found another thread that said the Kai Aras SF-1 is “less predictable” than some of the other offerings, like Filterstation2, but that thread is from 2019 and theres surely plenty more offerings by now.

I see Fabfilter Volcano 3 has a “wobble” setting on it’s envelope, instead of the standard attack/release. it also has a few more filters than just LP/BP/HP. Can anyone comment on the “wobble” and if this app can glitch like old hardware?

Can FAC Envolver glitch? I realize it doesn’t have it’s own sound, but if the envelope follower can do the nasty stuff, I’ll buy another filter app to use with it.

Comments

  • Dunno if this might suit your purpose but check out SugarBytes WOW (2)

    Midi configurable multiple filters tons on envelopes built in sequencer

  • @Sabicas said:
    I’m looking for an impolite envelope filter with unpredictable glitches like the old Mutron pedals. I pump long volume swells with a steel guitar and a volume pedal so this won’t be for anything quick like funk guitar strumming or drums.

    I’m using the envelope follower in THU Overloud and it’s actually pretty good (it glitches occasionally), but I’m looking for something more configurable that, hopefully, has a visual representation of the input source and envelope so I can better tweak the settings.

    I found another thread that said the Kai Aras SF-1 is “less predictable” than some of the other offerings, like Filterstation2, but that thread is from 2019 and theres surely plenty more offerings by now.

    I see Fabfilter Volcano 3 has a “wobble” setting on it’s envelope, instead of the standard attack/release. it also has a few more filters than just LP/BP/HP. Can anyone comment on the “wobble” and if this app can glitch like old hardware?

    Can FAC Envolver glitch? I realize it doesn’t have it’s own sound, but if the envelope follower can do the nasty stuff, I’ll buy another filter app to use with it.

    Maybe watch some vids on PaSSBot - not sure it’s what you’re looking for exactly but it certainly does glitchy, weird, unpredictable etc

  • @Gavinski said:

    @Sabicas said:
    I’m looking for an impolite envelope filter with unpredictable glitches like the old Mutron pedals. I pump long volume swells with a steel guitar and a volume pedal so this won’t be for anything quick like funk guitar strumming or drums.

    I’m using the envelope follower in THU Overloud and it’s actually pretty good (it glitches occasionally), but I’m looking for something more configurable that, hopefully, has a visual representation of the input source and envelope so I can better tweak the settings.

    I found another thread that said the Kai Aras SF-1 is “less predictable” than some of the other offerings, like Filterstation2, but that thread is from 2019 and theres surely plenty more offerings by now.

    I see Fabfilter Volcano 3 has a “wobble” setting on it’s envelope, instead of the standard attack/release. it also has a few more filters than just LP/BP/HP. Can anyone comment on the “wobble” and if this app can glitch like old hardware?

    Can FAC Envolver glitch? I realize it doesn’t have it’s own sound, but if the envelope follower can do the nasty stuff, I’ll buy another filter app to use with it.

    Maybe watch some vids on PaSSBot - not sure it’s what you’re looking for exactly but it certainly does glitchy, weird, unpredictable etc

    Very cool sounds in Passbot, but I can find no mention of an envelope follower in the AppStore description.. I jumped around your video tutorial and, correct me if I’m wrong, there’s was no point where you are tweaking envelope controls for an incoming signal.

  • Check out Caelum Audio’s free Flux Mini or their paid Flux Pro.

  • @Sabicas said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @Sabicas said:
    I’m looking for an impolite envelope filter with unpredictable glitches like the old Mutron pedals. I pump long volume swells with a steel guitar and a volume pedal so this won’t be for anything quick like funk guitar strumming or drums.

    I’m using the envelope follower in THU Overloud and it’s actually pretty good (it glitches occasionally), but I’m looking for something more configurable that, hopefully, has a visual representation of the input source and envelope so I can better tweak the settings.

    I found another thread that said the Kai Aras SF-1 is “less predictable” than some of the other offerings, like Filterstation2, but that thread is from 2019 and theres surely plenty more offerings by now.

    I see Fabfilter Volcano 3 has a “wobble” setting on it’s envelope, instead of the standard attack/release. it also has a few more filters than just LP/BP/HP. Can anyone comment on the “wobble” and if this app can glitch like old hardware?

    Can FAC Envolver glitch? I realize it doesn’t have it’s own sound, but if the envelope follower can do the nasty stuff, I’ll buy another filter app to use with it.

    Maybe watch some vids on PaSSBot - not sure it’s what you’re looking for exactly but it certainly does glitchy, weird, unpredictable etc

    Very cool sounds in Passbot, but I can find no mention of an envelope follower in the AppStore description.. I jumped around your video tutorial and, correct me if I’m wrong, there’s was no point where you are tweaking envelope controls for an incoming signal.

    You’re right, I haven’t used it in a while but after a quick check, yes, it doesn’t have an EF.

  • edited November 2022

    In case anyone needs an illustration of the ballpark I’m aiming for, I sat down and played a bit of lap steel through the THU Overloud envelope filter. I have a fuzz and tape delay model preceding the filter. It’s actually a really good model of old analog hardware and you can hear glitches hear and there, particularly in the last 20 seconds or so. This is generally what I’m trying to do, but want more sounds and more control.

    https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/BcDf1LfH8pJAPKXT7

    EDIT: how do I past a SoundCloud clip so you can listen in the thread instead of following a link?

  • @NeuM said:
    Check out Caelum Audio’s free Flux Mini or their paid Flux Pro.

    I don’t see that these apps have envelope followers.

  • @audiblevideo said:
    Dunno if this might suit your purpose but check out SugarBytes WOW (2)

    Midi configurable multiple filters tons on envelopes built in sequencer

    Ok, this is a candidate. I just watched a vid on it and it there’s a lot of tweaking to be had there.

  • edited November 2022

    Deleted

  • Your requirements sound very specific. You might be better off building a custom effect processor in a modular environment (Drambo, miRack etc.).

  • Is an envelope filter/follower something that’s set to react to certain frequencies, playing dynamics, or does it react to amplitude variations? I ask because if it’s a matter of the envelope filter “tracking”, then perhaps you could try to confuse the envelope filter an inconsistent signal. Maybe stick a tremolo pedal before the envelope and set it to a stutter, could that make the envelope glitch more?

    I’m thinking an octave pedal glitches all the time, because its tracking is poor or the signal it’s receiving is all over the place. So maybe an envelope could do the same if you just confuse it at its input…

    If only there was a digital emulation of something like the Drolo Twin Peaks tremolo. One of the wave shakes it offers is “random”, and there’s a knob to set the wave’s symmetry as well. It’s random glitch goodness!

  • You could route Envolver and a random wave LFO in parallel to a filter cutoff. You could even route Envolver to the amplitude of the LFO to, for instance, have more glitchiness in the attack or decay parts of the signal.

  • edited November 2022

    @JoyceRoadStudios said:
    Is an envelope filter/follower something that’s set to react to certain frequencies, playing dynamics, or does it react to amplitude variations? I ask because if it’s a matter of the envelope filter “tracking”, then perhaps you could try to confuse the envelope filter an inconsistent signal. Maybe stick a tremolo pedal before the envelope and set it to a stutter, could that make the envelope glitch more?

    I’m thinking an octave pedal glitches all the time, because its tracking is poor or the signal it’s receiving is all over the place. So maybe an envelope could do the same if you just confuse it at its input…

    If only there was a digital emulation of something like the Drolo Twin Peaks tremolo. One of the wave shakes it offers is “random”, and there’s a knob to set the wave’s symmetry as well. It’s random glitch goodness!

    In my clip above, I used a fuzz and a tape delay with a bit of wow/flutter to try to get the envelope confused. It’s subtle, but it is glitching at the end of sustained notes. It’s more pronounced at the very end.

    I had tried this before with Turnado and couldn’t confuse the envelope. Modern models of the Digitech Whammy pedal also don’t lose tracking like original. Most tape delay emulations try to work in the old flaws with hiss, warble, flutter, etc.

    I thought I’d ask if any apps out there are known for (or specialize) envelopes tracking poorly.

  • @Sabicas said:

    @JoyceRoadStudios said:
    Is an envelope filter/follower something that’s set to react to certain frequencies, playing dynamics, or does it react to amplitude variations? I ask because if it’s a matter of the envelope filter “tracking”, then perhaps you could try to confuse the envelope filter an inconsistent signal. Maybe stick a tremolo pedal before the envelope and set it to a stutter, could that make the envelope glitch more?

    I’m thinking an octave pedal glitches all the time, because its tracking is poor or the signal it’s receiving is all over the place. So maybe an envelope could do the same if you just confuse it at its input…

    If only there was a digital emulation of something like the Drolo Twin Peaks tremolo. One of the wave shakes it offers is “random”, and there’s a knob to set the wave’s symmetry as well. It’s random glitch goodness!

    In my clip above, I used a fuzz and a tape delay with a bit of wow/flutter to try to get the envelope confused. It’s subtle, but it is glitching at the end of sustained notes. It’s more pronounced at the very end.

    I had tried this before with Turnado and couldn’t confuse the envelope. Modern models of the Digitech Whammy pedal also don’t lose tracking like original.

    I thought I’d ask if any apps out there are known for (or specialize) in tracking poorly.

    @rs2000 said:
    Your requirements sound very specific. You might be better off building a custom effect processor in a modular environment (Drambo, miRack etc.).

    I keep looking into Drambo only get confused on why it’s always recommended. I understand you can build effects based on modules, but I assume the envelope follower module is provided for you in Drambo and you use it to control various parameters. How would you “program” the follower to react unpredictably any easier than with any other app-provided envelope. Surely, Drambo doesn’t let you build an actual envelope follower from scratch, right?

  • @Sabicas said:

    @Sabicas said:

    @JoyceRoadStudios said:
    Is an envelope filter/follower something that’s set to react to certain frequencies, playing dynamics, or does it react to amplitude variations? I ask because if it’s a matter of the envelope filter “tracking”, then perhaps you could try to confuse the envelope filter an inconsistent signal. Maybe stick a tremolo pedal before the envelope and set it to a stutter, could that make the envelope glitch more?

    I’m thinking an octave pedal glitches all the time, because its tracking is poor or the signal it’s receiving is all over the place. So maybe an envelope could do the same if you just confuse it at its input…

    If only there was a digital emulation of something like the Drolo Twin Peaks tremolo. One of the wave shakes it offers is “random”, and there’s a knob to set the wave’s symmetry as well. It’s random glitch goodness!

    In my clip above, I used a fuzz and a tape delay with a bit of wow/flutter to try to get the envelope confused. It’s subtle, but it is glitching at the end of sustained notes. It’s more pronounced at the very end.

    I had tried this before with Turnado and couldn’t confuse the envelope. Modern models of the Digitech Whammy pedal also don’t lose tracking like original.

    I thought I’d ask if any apps out there are known for (or specialize) in tracking poorly.

    @rs2000 said:
    Your requirements sound very specific. You might be better off building a custom effect processor in a modular environment (Drambo, miRack etc.).

    I keep looking into Drambo only get confused on why it’s always recommended. I understand you can build effects based on modules, but I assume the envelope follower module is provided for you in Drambo and you use it to control various parameters. How would you “program” the follower to react unpredictably any easier than with any other app-provided envelope. Surely, Drambo doesn’t let you build an actual envelope follower from scratch, right?

    there are a few ways you could make an envelope follower like the one in Drambo or Envolver glitch.

    One method would be to use a random LFO to control the level of the signal that is sent to the envelope follower. Another is to have a random LFO that modulates the output of envelope follower. Or something along those lines.

    @JoyceRoadStudios : In answer to your question , an envelope follower creates a control signal that follows the input signal’s amplitude contour. They can be made frequency triggered by putting a suitable filter or parametric eq in front of it. People often call things envelope follower’s that are really amplitude triggered envelopes controlling a filter.

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @Sabicas said:

    @Sabicas said:

    @JoyceRoadStudios said:
    Is an envelope filter/follower something that’s set to react to certain frequencies, playing dynamics, or does it react to amplitude variations? I ask because if it’s a matter of the envelope filter “tracking”, then perhaps you could try to confuse the envelope filter an inconsistent signal. Maybe stick a tremolo pedal before the envelope and set it to a stutter, could that make the envelope glitch more?

    I’m thinking an octave pedal glitches all the time, because its tracking is poor or the signal it’s receiving is all over the place. So maybe an envelope could do the same if you just confuse it at its input…

    If only there was a digital emulation of something like the Drolo Twin Peaks tremolo. One of the wave shakes it offers is “random”, and there’s a knob to set the wave’s symmetry as well. It’s random glitch goodness!

    In my clip above, I used a fuzz and a tape delay with a bit of wow/flutter to try to get the envelope confused. It’s subtle, but it is glitching at the end of sustained notes. It’s more pronounced at the very end.

    I had tried this before with Turnado and couldn’t confuse the envelope. Modern models of the Digitech Whammy pedal also don’t lose tracking like original.

    I thought I’d ask if any apps out there are known for (or specialize) in tracking poorly.

    @rs2000 said:
    Your requirements sound very specific. You might be better off building a custom effect processor in a modular environment (Drambo, miRack etc.).

    I keep looking into Drambo only get confused on why it’s always recommended. I understand you can build effects based on modules, but I assume the envelope follower module is provided for you in Drambo and you use it to control various parameters. How would you “program” the follower to react unpredictably any easier than with any other app-provided envelope. Surely, Drambo doesn’t let you build an actual envelope follower from scratch, right?

    there are a few ways you could make an envelope follower like the one in Drambo or Envolver glitch.

    One method would be to use a random LFO to control the level of the signal that is sent to the envelope follower. Another is to have a random LFO that modulates the output of envelope follower. Or something along those lines.

    @JoyceRoadStudios : In answer to your question , an envelope follower creates a control signal that follows the input signal’s amplitude contour. They can be made frequency triggered by putting a suitable filter or parametric eq in front of it. People often call things envelope follower’s that are really amplitude triggered envelopes controlling a filter.

    @espiegel123 I guess I knew the part about the amplitude, which is why I’m curious about a tremolo before the envelope. Not glitch per se, but imagine an envelope reacting to this…

    Now that I think of it, I don’t know that there’s anything on iOS like this in the form of a “tremolo”. Not just the random amplitude wave shape nor the asymmetry knob, but you can isolate and affect the amplitude of just the bass or the treble. And this circuit is widely available (Delyk Cherry Pie). Maybe we can get Igor or Jatin to do it…

  • Undulator has a random tremolo setting, and you can modulate the speed and/or depth of the tremolo with (among other things) an envelope follower. Maybe that would get you in the ballpark?

  • @Sabicas said:

    @Sabicas said:

    @JoyceRoadStudios said:
    Is an envelope filter/follower something that’s set to react to certain frequencies, playing dynamics, or does it react to amplitude variations? I ask because if it’s a matter of the envelope filter “tracking”, then perhaps you could try to confuse the envelope filter an inconsistent signal. Maybe stick a tremolo pedal before the envelope and set it to a stutter, could that make the envelope glitch more?

    I’m thinking an octave pedal glitches all the time, because its tracking is poor or the signal it’s receiving is all over the place. So maybe an envelope could do the same if you just confuse it at its input…

    If only there was a digital emulation of something like the Drolo Twin Peaks tremolo. One of the wave shakes it offers is “random”, and there’s a knob to set the wave’s symmetry as well. It’s random glitch goodness!

    In my clip above, I used a fuzz and a tape delay with a bit of wow/flutter to try to get the envelope confused. It’s subtle, but it is glitching at the end of sustained notes. It’s more pronounced at the very end.

    I had tried this before with Turnado and couldn’t confuse the envelope. Modern models of the Digitech Whammy pedal also don’t lose tracking like original.

    I thought I’d ask if any apps out there are known for (or specialize) in tracking poorly.

    @rs2000 said:
    Your requirements sound very specific. You might be better off building a custom effect processor in a modular environment (Drambo, miRack etc.).

    I keep looking into Drambo only get confused on why it’s always recommended. I understand you can build effects based on modules, but I assume the envelope follower module is provided for you in Drambo and you use it to control various parameters. How would you “program” the follower to react unpredictably any easier than with any other app-provided envelope. Surely, Drambo doesn’t let you build an actual envelope follower from scratch, right?

    Sure.
    Here's a simple envelope follower:

    There are many ways to make things more unpredictable, now it depends on what kind of unpredictability you want 😉

  • @JoyceRoadStudios The Twin Peaks looks good! They really made the tremolo effect more useful.
    If anyone would like to re-build it on iOS, I'd recommend to optionally make the LFO triggered by the envelope follower level as well plus make the LFO phase adjustable so the waveform always starts at the same phase with hard enough attacks.

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