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MIDI event order when sliding between keys on a touch keyboard

I've always assumed that when you "slide" between two keys (notes) on a touch screen keyboard, it would be better to FIRST send a "Note On" for the NEW key, and THEN send a "Note Off" for the now-released key. I think the reason is that some old hardware synths interpreted this as "portamento", and that's what users expected.

It's also what both the internal Xequence keyboard and Xequence AU | Keys / Xequence AU | Pads do.

However, I've now just tested two random apps (KB-1 and GeoShred), and neither of those do this. (they send the Note On / Note Off messages in the "regular" order -- first note off for the old key, then note on for the new one).

Is there any consensus / opinion on this? Does anyone depend on the "reversed" order? Any tests?

Comments

  • _ki_ki
    edited September 22

    The AUM keyboard also sends the note-on for the new note before releasing the old one with a note-off when sliding between notes.

    Many synth and instruments use this sequence to enable portamento (glide) or others use it for legato-mode, where the attack/decay phase of their envelops isn‘t retriggered, but stays at the sustain level but with the new pitch.

    .

    The current Xequence AU Keys variant allows to use these synth features when sliding and with a diffent playstyle (lifting the finger and then touching down on the adjacent key) it generates the other variant. I use both techniques instinctivly, depending on how i want the synth to sound. Please don‘t remove this useful feature.

  • @_ki said:
    The AUM keyboard also sends the note-on for the new note before releasing the old one with a note-off when sliding between notes.

    Many synth and instruments use this sequence to enable portamento (glide) or others use it for legato-mode, where the attack/decay phase of their envelops isn‘t retriggered, but stays at the sustain level.

    Alright, that's what I always thought and what seemed right to me. Interesting that some major "players" don't do this.

  • _ki_ki
    edited September 22

    IIRC for GeoShred you get a pitch-bend when sliding on the same string, but a note-off / note-on when changing between strings. But GeoShred has a lot of midi configuration options, so it may depend on the preset.

  • @SevenSystems said:

    @_ki said:
    The AUM keyboard also sends the note-on for the new note before releasing the old one with a note-off when sliding between notes.

    Many synth and instruments use this sequence to enable portamento (glide) or others use it for legato-mode, where the attack/decay phase of their envelops isn‘t retriggered, but stays at the sustain level.

    Alright, that's what I always thought and what seemed right to me. Interesting that some major "players" don't do this.

    I have not tried it, but Geoshred has a switch for “legato midi” in the midi configuration editor.

  • @catherder said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    @_ki said:
    The AUM keyboard also sends the note-on for the new note before releasing the old one with a note-off when sliding between notes.

    Many synth and instruments use this sequence to enable portamento (glide) or others use it for legato-mode, where the attack/decay phase of their envelops isn‘t retriggered, but stays at the sustain level.

    Alright, that's what I always thought and what seemed right to me. Interesting that some major "players" don't do this.

    I have not tried it, but Geoshred has a switch for “legato midi” in the midi configuration editor.

    Thanks... I've just tried that, didn't make a difference....

    @_ki said:
    IIRC for GeoShred you get a pitch-bend when sliding on the same string, but a note-off / note-on when changing between strings. But GeoShred has a lot of midi configuration options, so it may depend on the preset.

    Yes, "a lot of options" is probably a vast understatement 😆

    I guess the consensus is though that "New Note On -> Old Note Off" is the more useful behaviour, and it probably doesn't cause issues in synths that don't care either way. So I'll probably keep it in Xequence!

  • edited September 22

    @SevenSystems : I’d look at what Animoog Z does, too.

  • _ki_ki
    edited September 22

    @espiegel123 I just checked:

    Animoog Z also issues the note-on of the new key before the note-off of the previous key when sliding between keys

    Velocity KB : If one disables ‚slide to bend‘ in the settings, it is using the same order as Xequence Keys, AUM and Animoog Z.

    LK buildin leyboard : When sliding, it first sends the note-off of the prev note, then note-on for the new note.

  • @_ki said:
    @espiegel123 I just checked:

    Animoog Z also issues the note-on of the new key before the note-off of the previous key when sliding between keys

    Velocity KB : If one disables ‚slide to bend‘ in the settings, it is using the same order as Xequence Keys, AUM and Animoog Z.

    LK buildin leyboard : When sliding, it first sends the note-off of the prev note, then note-on for the new note.

    Thanks for the investigation... looks like a "healthy" 50/50 mix 😆

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