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Your practical uses of music theory
Hello all!
I am only passingly familiar with some of the concepts. I do use various music theory apps but mostly to try out scales that I can feed to apps like Aphelian, Piano Motifs , Riffler, etc to see what they create and how it sounds. Also to try and move to a different key.
I tried to use intervals to analyze a song but honestly didn’t know how to use that information. (Like, what do I do with the knowledge that a melody I like goes from this degree to that degree to that other and so on).
That’s the extent of it, though.
I’n wondering how other people might be using theory in composing their music. Hoping that some knowledge rubs up on me.
Comments
Composing is probably the most common use, as it can help determine what works and what doesn’t (or at least what doesn’t from a more conservative approach). It also makes music more Interesting in ways that trial and error doesn’t, particularly when counterpoint comes into play.
Practically, it’s good for making parts easier to play by being able to figure out good voice leading, and for me it makes things much faster when putting together an accompaniment.
Analyzing music is good though, as the more you practice it the better you instinctively understand written music.
One thing you can look into is the concept of tension and release: for example if your melody only ever uses the same notes as the underlying harmony (ie you only play chord tones over any given chord) then it could sound rather boring. If you introduce non-chord tones that still belong to the scale as melodic elements over the chords, that will create some mild dissonance (tension) that can then be resolved with a chord tone, or even better with the root note or the fifth of the scale/key.
And when it comes to melody, rhythm is as important as intervals, maybe more. Melodies with an interesting rhythm are more enjoyable on the whole than those which have very little rhythmic variation.
A great example is the riff to Seven Nation Army: it's unbelievably simple in terms of intervals, it's essentially just a walk up and down the E minor scale. What makes it so effective is the rhythmic variations in the riff, and the long pause before the final note which resolves on the fifth - your ear is waiting for that resolution, and the pause makes it more satisfying (tension and release). Just tap out the rhythm on a table to hear it without the actual notes, and you will hear the variation in the rhythm - it's much more intricate rhythmically than it is musically.
Hi,
I’m currently having an extreme theory breakthrough!
It all began with the Linnstrument. The theory power being a visual representation of tuning in fourths. Like a bass guitar with eight strings.
I began to see how the chord shapes fit together. Just use any grid based controller or Scaler2 showing guitar layout tuned in fourths.
When you know one chord the shape is the same for every key. Then recently I started on some basic exercises going up and down chromatically with one hand and involving chords with the other. I began to see even more connections. Then I realized the powers of simplicity as in one hand just stays in one place repeating the notes of a triad or even just one note while other hand explores chords, or even groups of two notes. Always having a midi chord identification app running in background like Tonality auv3. That way I can hear and see what’s happening. I use Mapping Tonal Harmony Pro(expensive but worth it) as well as iReal and Genius Jam tracks to digest chords progressions. Then find the midi for melodies I want to learn and put into Multitrack Studio to spit midi out onto the Linnstrument leds. Learning like playing Simon. Seeing more patterns.
Also Finally got out of diatonic prison by learning about borrowed chords. You can use Suggester app to easily see so many possible options. Like I heard Victor Wooten say recently, something like - you paid for for all the notes on your instrument might as well use em! Also recently got another app by the mapping tonal harmony guy called master piano grooves. Rhythm has always been my weak point by having just gone through 3 of the 60 lessons I’m this app I’m F’n blowing my own mind with the way it’s gelling and my hands are acting like I’ve played piano for years(I’m a bass player). It’s humbling and life altering. Anyhow sorry for the long answer.
But it boils down to my short attention span and finding the tools the piece it all together. Slowing down, listening, repeating, and oh the fourths tuning.
Now I will practice more
Oh ya like richardyot said Tension and Release. End in a turnaround, or even just
A dominant seventh on the fifth degree of whatever key you’re in then back to first chord or tonic, you’ll feel that tension and release. Then make the 7th darker by a flat 9.
So G7b9 to C. Oh the release!
Definitely add space and rhythm to the simplest of progressions and you’ll get dynamic results. Ok really I’m gonna practice now
Everything @richardyot said can be a good start to incorporate musical theory and feed your songwriting with new ideas.
Very simple concept can get your very far. For exemple you can explore chord super structure simply by stacking two different triads played by different instruments.
Music theory can also help you improve your arrangements, for exemple, quartal harmony can lead to very interesting textures.
A better understanding of the diatonic scales (major/minor, harmonic and melodic minor etc...) Can also help create better progressions by understanding the relation between each chord in the scale, and where they like to resolve.
Once you have a better understanding of the diatonic scale, you can start looking for modulation in order to shift the key center. A basic understand of the cycle of fifth can help you knowing close scales sharing common chords which you can then use as passing chords for key modulation. Secondary dominants can also be used for modulation. I recently learned that the augmented chords can also be great passing chords, just by moving one of their voice up or down a ½ ton to modulate in a different key.
Negative harmony can help you transpose chords of a major scale to its minor counterpart. This is also great to find unexpected chords to add to your chord progressions.
Recently, @McD posted a nice upright piano piece in which he used a cord progression based on chromatic mediants chords. The concept is very simple but can create amazing results which we're hearing all the time in cinematic tracks.
But in any case, it should remain just a way to enrich your musical vocabulary. When you learn a new concept, always ask yourself "how can I use it and incorporate it in my own creation". That's the beauty of it : Once you managed to incorporate a new idea, a new type of chord, it is like this new idea becomes yours, even if you don't own it !
Practical tip - watch some videos by people that are really good at explaining music theory -- in the process of explaining it, they will also reveal things that are helpful. It is probably better to start from scratch than trying to overlay onto what you know -- and at some point those things you know will make sense.
My short summary of how music theory can help: it can provide ideas about what notes might work in a melody or what chords you might use (or chord voicings you might use) or what other notes will work as harmonies or for other parts.
It can help give you ideas about how to make something more interesting (less predictable) OR help identify why something doesn't sound quite right (make it more predictable).
It is also super helpful for being able to communicate with other musicians.
A little can go a long way.
AND -- don't go TOO fast. A lot of people "learn" theory (as in they can recite the rules) but don't really LEARN it (be able to hear it). The hearing part is way more important than being able to recite rules. A lot of people "know" the theory with their ears only -- and they are capable of being world-class musicians. If what you know is only in your head, it won't be transformative.
I am now trying to catch my ear up to the things that I "learned" but didn't lEARn.
The 12tone channel on YouTube is one gateway.
It might not help you produce, but it is likely to give you an appreciation for how theory can help deepen your understanding of what's going on (in compositions you like), which may then help you produce.
This woman teaches applied music theory for wanna be composers like myself:
Dozens of topics taught clearly and with computer applications.
I am mostly self educated (should have got a teacher when I was young, that would have helped me a lot). I do understand the concept of tension and release, borrowed chords, landing on chord tones, different modes, intervals, etc.
What helps me a lot is the Band in a Box software on PC, specially the function to create a solo over a chord progression, in a chosen music style,and a personal style. That gives me new ideas I didn´t think about myself. For me this is like having a teacher, when it comes to theory (a teacher does a lot more, I know...).
As someone with no musical training background, I think we all use "music theory" in everything we make. It's like physics, you use it daily even if you're unsure of the names of the concepts.
Interacting with it directly, I basically learned a bit of piano playing and scales from composing my own stuff which has helped me to jam more. It also helps when I pick up a new musical toy to get started playing around quickly. I use the circle of fifths on occasion when composing to change moods in pieces. I like using scaler or suggester to build progressions and then play on top or extend the chords, create bass lines, etc.
I had a bit of a hard time figuring out accmpainment for part of a melody I did a few months ago, though it was very satisfying to semi-stumble upon a progression that sounded nice along the melody. I have one of those Idiot's guides to music theory and the author kind of boiled down finding chords to that as "a simple matter of applying one of the common chord progressions." I can't remember how I did it but I think I may have gone the hard way (use the apps to try and find a scale that seems to match the melody, and trial and error the chords in that scale).
I'll keep practicing music analysis of the songs I like. I think I need to study more examples of how people do that.
Ah, thanks for this bit of knowledge guys. Definitely one of the main takeaways from most of the replies is to focus more of my study in the concept of tension and release.
That's one of my favorite riffs. I was looking a much simpler one from Motley Crue (Looks That Kill). All I was able to do was write down the intervals and ape the style by changing the key and the placement of the fifths (maybe the rhytm a little bit). I didn't really know what it all meant in the terms you put it. Were you using functional harmony concepts to describe what SNA was doing?
I love long answers! lol Thanks for all the info. I happen to own some of the theory apps you mention I think they have helped me some, even though I'm not well versed enough to make the most of them. Borrowed Chords and modulation are things I try to do. Ever since I heard that 80s music made much use of that, I've wanted to do it hehe. It's one of the things I would like to also understand better as I depend on app suggestions or semi-blindly trying things.
Is there anything similar to to Band in a Box on ios? How do you study what the app gives you? Do you analyze it in a particular way?
Thanks for the tip on Negative Harmony. I have heard the term before and heard popular songs reworked with it but have not studied how it's done.
I also need to apply that question (how to incorporate a oncept) to myself so I can be mor systematic in my learning.
I'll keep this advice in mind too. I need to train my ears and also spend some time considering how to use what I read about (do my homework).
Thanks for the tips on the teachers out there, folks.
The most well known one I've listened to is Rick Beato. I recently stumbled upon this video on borrowed chords and mediants. It was nice to see a step by step how-to:
I've also read a bit from Hook Theory and Improvising For Real but they are also paid lessons so I haven't dug very deeply.
Any others you like in particular in addition to the ones mentioned?
I definitely hear music in my head and I'm able to plunk it out on the keyboard by trial and error. Before Scaler 2, I would put in the notes in Pensato or Tonality and try to guess which scale the melody might be in from the choices given (Scaler 2 tells me exactly).
Thanks everyone for your replies and sorry for the long reply!
There are so many YouTube channel around focusing on music theory. I like Rick Beato's channel but mostly for his discussions on music industry, his talk about gear and the series of interviews he started recently. But I don't really enjoy his theory videos which never really clicked with me.
When it comes to analyzing chord progressions I think David Bennett is doing a great job, his explanation are always crystal clear. it is mostly oriented towards pop and rock, if this is up your alley.
I also learned a lot of thing (especially negative harmony) from MusicTheoryForGuitar. I like his way of sharing his musical knowledge and he always gives exemples. The reason why it is working for me is probably because I am a guitarist at core. But I am pretty sure anyone can pick interesting things there. And his Italian accent is a delight 😃!
Well there are parts of BIAB on IOS available. Keep in mind that BIAB is a complex piece of software, with a dated and cluttered interface, and many options in menu´s everywhere. The interface s*cks big time. I only use a tip of the iceberg. And it is expensive too (the version with the Realtracks, real audio instead of midi), and every year they have an upgrade with more styles and other stuff, so you feel obligated to buy it. But then, it is a lot cheaper than taking lessons for a longer period.
Chord theory and progressions, I would say you can find this in Suggester, Scaler 2,Tonality, Chordmaps 2, ProChords, Navichord, Music Tool, Progressions, Waayfinder, Vivace Theory, etc.
Playing and creating songs and work with their structure: iReal Pro, Chordbot, Session band.
Creating riffs, solo´s and motifs: Riffler, Jazz Solo Creator, Piano Motifs
So it can be done with bits and pieces in IOS.
What I do with BIAB, when I have some own ideas for chord progressions, but I am stuck at finding something that is more exciting, is let BIAB generate a complete progression in a certain format in my chosen style and key. I try to find inspiration in these examples. And that little pieces I use in my own progression.
The same for my soloing, when I get stuck and can´t find something that tells a little story instead of some random notes, I let BIAB generate a solo, for example in the style of Brent Mason. Every next time you press the generate button, you get a new solo. That is a goldmine for ideas for your own work.
I don´t finish my tracks in BIAB, just finding stuff that works for me, is enough. Sometimes I bounce a song, or the drums and bass into an audio file and load it up in my multi track recorder and work further.
What also is possible in BIAB is generate a chord progression when you only have a melody, but I haven´t used that successfully.
I want to add something, not really related to the OT. Anyway, when I had a synth studio with keyboards, I didn't bother learning to play keys. Then I ditched everything and switched back to guitar and I really wanted to understand the theory, and the construction of chords (The app Solo helped me al lot with this). On guitar you cannot see the position of the notes easily, you have to memorize the position of the notes on the fretboard (6th, 5th and 1st string are easy, but string 4-3-2 needs a work around, I need a reference)
We also have a digital piano in the house, and now I know the way chords are build up om guitar, on the piano keyboard it all makes sense, because the notes are lined up in a strict linear way. Compared to guitar, piano is so much easier when it comes to chord construction and intervals (specially if you just play Aminor/Cmajor, the white keys and a few black ones to get out of the diatonic sphere, and just transpose the keyboard a few steps for an other key). Playing with my left hand the chords, and with my right hand the melody is also much easier, you can land on chord tones or play arpeggios, and have visual guidance.
So my tip for guitar players would be, learn to play the piano a bit, it helps you with understanding the guitar.
The VCO tune pot on most synths that have one is a simple rotary or slider pot which goes from low frequencies to high frequencies – how much theory can there possibly be in that?
My guitar teacher says that everything comes from the melody. Once you have that, you harmonize it by picking chords that fit (or don’t). It’s all driven by theory, which is really nothing but a description of how everything fits together.
Musicians who say they don’t use theory are like men who say they don’t have anything to do with fashion. Even though choosing work boots and no-brand jeans is just as much a fashion choice as wearing Balenciaga stiletto Crocs (yes, they exist!).
Piano is handy no matter what instrument one plays because it is a great visualization tool .. each note can only be played in one place.
For guitar, a critical thing that some people learn naturally but others (like me don’t) is to train yourself to find all the places where a note or melody can be played (ultimately without looking at the instrument).
I recently heard a former teacher of mine (a world class musician) suggest an exercise that every musician should do daily. Away from your instrument (he does this often in the shower) hear a short melody (it can be just a few notes) in your head or sing it (sing is best if you can). It can be familiar or made up. Close your eyes and picture how you would play it. Repeat if you need to cement the memory.
As soon as you are able , go to your instrument and find the notes. And play it. Then find all the places where those notes can be played. Play them clearly.
At first, you will find that how you picture playing the notes will be totally wrong. THAT IS OK. This skill may take years to develop. Over time you will notice that you start being right some of the time.. it can take days or weeks or months or years.
At some point, you will find that the learning accelerates. And you will find yourself just knowing where you can find the notes you hear in your head and see them.
@AlexY im no expert but I know some theory and always learning more.
I looked this up to be sure.
In music.
“interval is the difference (a ratio or logarithmic measure) in pitch between two notes, often referring to those two pitches themselves (otherwise known as a dyad) while semitone is any of the pitches of the chromatic scale.
From Wikipedia on Dyad.
“Dyads can be classified by the interval between the notes. For example, the interval between C and E is a major third, which can imply a C major chord, made up of the notes C, E and G. When the pitches of a dyad occur in succession, they form a melodic interval. When they occur simultaneously, they form a harmonic interval”
Me.
I typically like to think in semitones, every note is a semitone apart. Despite microtonal music, There are only 12 notes. Each scale moves from the root note in a series of whole tones (2 notes) and semitones (1 note) the Major Scale is WWHWWWH. W=whole tones H= Halftone aka semitone. Each scale is different. If you know how many semitones a melody moves you can see if it is in scale, and what position in the scale ie “Roman Numeral” and what direction it is going (Higher, Lower, or Lateral) Generally speaking, Most Melodie’s move in a wave or a graph like movement. Ascending, Descending, Ascending then Descending, Descending then ascending, Like a sine wave, Lateral, and so on…. One app that shows this really well is iSongwriter. I’m rambling, not sure if this even helps or not.
This is a good video and channel to follow. Hack Music Theory.
These are wise words too from @LinearLineman, this may have been what got me off my backside and onto a waaay faster journey into actually playing
“Janosax and I have been continuing our discussion on playing and improvising was mentioned. Here is the technique Connie Crothers taught me on how to improvise on the piano. Connie's and her teacher Lennie Tristano's, method of teaching jazz improvisation (something many jazz musicians do just to supplement gigs and studio dates to the detriment of many talented players) is indeed a well thought out system of learning to do something that seems to defy understanding by mere words, chord progressions, or played examples. At least for me. The basic requirement is the pushing aside of the judgemental mind (good and bad) but maybe in another discussion.
Lennie's system was based on melody and not harmony. Singing along with the jazz greats was a primary part of this melody based technique. So it is logical that his guidance on improvising was melody based at well. It begins with ingraining the melody in its most accurate note by note construction.
You should, of course, experiment with playing the melody as expressively as possible, change dynamics, accenting notes and even changing the phrasing by adding the first note of the next phrase to the end of the last, for example.
With that in mind, pick a favorite melody. In my time I used jazz standards, which I recommend because they are often more melodically deep compared with today's tunes. Play it straight as much as possible in left and right hands separately. Yes, your left hand! You will find there are two distinct feelings and "voices" in each of your hands. Traditional jazz playing reduces the left hand at its worst to comping a chord accompaniment or the famous "walking bass" so many of us like. Rarely do you hear melodies in the left with comping in the right, or two melodies at once. But even a walking bass line is at heart a melody. Limiting your left hand to the status of solely being an accompanist is perhaps a poor use of musical resources at hand (ouch).
So pick a melody, and play the melody as deeply as possible in each hand. DO NOT IMPROVISE NOTES! Do this for a week as little as fifteen minutes a day. Don't try to improvise during that time. This will ingrain the melody in your head and make you wring the most "improvised" expression from the exact melody notes.
The next week play the melody first with exact melody notes in an improvised way as explained above. Then play the next round with the melody playing in your head like a tape recording. Play any notes you care to. They can even be random, just keep the recording going so your improvisation takes place in real time with the melody (as though you are taking a solo chorus with a band) then play the exact melody notes, then improvise a chorus and so on and so forth. Do this in both hands separately. Try this for another week fifteen minutes a day.
Then the third week record what you are doing.
Do the whole week without listening to what you recorded. Skip a couple of days, have yourself a drink or two, or at least pick a quiet time late at night and listen to what you recorded. The rest is for you to decide. I am reasonably sure that you will see a significant evolution in your playing. For many the change will be quite dramatic. Playing off tunes is great. Playing totally free can be even more satisfying. This melodic immersion will help with your free playing but requires other resources as well. All that for another time. May the melody be with you!”>
For composing, I recommend learning the classical forms: rondo, canon, fugue, theme and variations, sonata, etc.
These are pretty easy to learn, and can be used to organize any style of music, even electronic noise stuff. Learn one at a time. It will change your life.
Depends. It’s useful know theory around microtonal playing if you want to really explore more granular tuning.
I approach music theory like a mute European trying to speak Swahili. Yet I find Adam Neely’s videos compelling. Everything he says is over my head but still… compelling.
Great question and even better answers. Thank you all. this is a really helpful thread
@richardyot said:
This is interesting, I think every combination of notes is a scale somewhere out there (in the 12 steps half per octave domain), Balinese, Hungarian, Gypsy, Hawaiian, just name something. And every random combination of notes is probably a chord. So it comes to consistency, when you are committed to a selection of notes that you use in your melody. Not every scale sounds pleasing to your ears, so in the end you probably fall back on the stuff that is the most common.
This was really interesting and practical. Have you bought their book?
Useful chart for using different modes/modus’s on different scales
I need a chart for which pentatonic scales compatible with which scales