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AUM MIDI node “bypass” disconnecting but not a bypass

catherdercatherder
in General App Discussion

When I try to use “bypass” on a MIDI node in AUM, it is not bypassing the node but disconnecting it. This is not what I want because it cuts off the entire MIDI stream when I am trying to bypass a MIDI effect.
Is there any way around this problem ? A known bug ?

Comments

  • wimwim
    edited August 2022

    @catherder said:
    When I try to use “bypass” on a MIDI node in AUM, it is not bypassing the node but disconnecting it. This is not what I want because it cuts off the entire MIDI stream when I am trying to bypass a MIDI effect.
    Is there any way around this problem ? A known bug ?

    Not a bug. That's just the way AUM is designed. All routings are point-to-point.

    However, I think you might be able to do what you want using Midi Bus Nodes.

    Input --> Plugin --> Midi Bus A --> Destination
Input --> Midi Bus B --> Destination

    Enable Bus A and disable Bus B to use the plugin. Enable Bus B and disable Bus A to bypass.

  • catherdercatherder

    @wim said:

    @catherder said:
    When I try to use “bypass” on a MIDI node in AUM, it is not bypassing the node but disconnecting it. This is not what I want because it cuts off the entire MIDI stream when I am trying to bypass a MIDI effect.
    Is there any way around this problem ? A known bug ?

    Not a bug. That's just the way AUM is designed. All routings are point-to-point.

    However, I think you might be able to do what you want using Midi Bus Nodes.

    Input --> Plugin --> Midi Bus A --> Destination
Input --> Midi Bus B --> Destination

    Enable Bus A and disable Bus B to use the plugin. Enable Bus B and disable Bus A to bypass.

    Thanks for that suggestion. I will try it out. I was just expecting the “bypass” function to act in the same way for both audio and midi effects. Just cutting off the stream makes little sense to me.

  • wimwim

    @catherder said:

    @wim said:

    @catherder said:
    When I try to use “bypass” on a MIDI node in AUM, it is not bypassing the node but disconnecting it. This is not what I want because it cuts off the entire MIDI stream when I am trying to bypass a MIDI effect.
    Is there any way around this problem ? A known bug ?

    Not a bug. That's just the way AUM is designed. All routings are point-to-point.

    However, I think you might be able to do what you want using Midi Bus Nodes.

    Input --> Plugin --> Midi Bus A --> Destination
Input --> Midi Bus B --> Destination

    Enable Bus A and disable Bus B to use the plugin. Enable Bus B and disable Bus A to bypass.

    Thanks for that suggestion. I will try it out. I was just expecting the “bypass” function to act in the same way for both audio and midi effects. Just cutting off the stream makes little sense to me.

    I had never really thought about it, but it seems reasonable that you would expect it to work that way. Might be a great feature suggestion for @j_liljedahl.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @wim said:

    @catherder said:

    @wim said:

    @catherder said:
    When I try to use “bypass” on a MIDI node in AUM, it is not bypassing the node but disconnecting it. This is not what I want because it cuts off the entire MIDI stream when I am trying to bypass a MIDI effect.
    Is there any way around this problem ? A known bug ?

    Not a bug. That's just the way AUM is designed. All routings are point-to-point.

    However, I think you might be able to do what you want using Midi Bus Nodes.

    Input --> Plugin --> Midi Bus A --> Destination
Input --> Midi Bus B --> Destination

    Enable Bus A and disable Bus B to use the plugin. Enable Bus B and disable Bus A to bypass.

    Thanks for that suggestion. I will try it out. I was just expecting the “bypass” function to act in the same way for both audio and midi effects. Just cutting off the stream makes little sense to me.

    I had never really thought about it, but it seems reasonable that you would expect it to work that way. Might be a great feature suggestion for @j_liljedahl.

    I think the analogy is wrong here.

    The thing is that the MIDI nodes aren't like Audio channel effect nodes -- they are like the nodes at the top or bottom of an audio channel. If you disable the node at the bottom of the channel, you aren't bypassing it -- you are removing it and everything that feeds it.

    The same with the MIDI nodes. They aren't effect nodes you insert into an existing pipeline. They are standalone nodes that you wire together. You route things specifically into or out of them. They are like endpoints.

    MIDI Bus are collections of endpoints. The behavior is described in the manual. It makes clear that disabling a MIDI Bus stops midi data from traveling through it.

  • wimwim
    edited August 2022

    @espiegel123 said:
    I think the analogy is wrong here.

    But it doesn't have to be. I think it could be a nice and useful feature to treat a node that has a MIDI FX in it the same way you would treat an audio FX node. I understand that the current behavior is by design. But I can also understand why one would think of it the way @catherder did and also see the usefulness of it.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    I agree that it would be a nice enhancement,

    My point is that this has been framed here as a bug/problem and trying to clarify the existing paradigm is more like endpoints than fx.

  • catherdercatherder
    edited August 2022

    @espiegel123 said:
    I agree that it would be a nice enhancement,

    My point is that this has been framed here as a bug/problem and trying to clarify the existing paradigm is more like endpoints than fx.

    There is one problem though: It is called "bypass" although it isn't. Even in the manual makes no difference between the nodes. This gave me the impression of a bug. I would either call it "disconnect", or change the way it works (my preferred solution).

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    I agree that “bypass “ is a confusing word choice.

  • j_liljedahlj_liljedahl

    @catherder said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    I agree that it would be a nice enhancement,

    My point is that this has been framed here as a bug/problem and trying to clarify the existing paradigm is more like endpoints than fx.

    There is one problem though: It is called "bypass" although it isn't. Even in the manual makes no difference between the nodes. This gave me the impression of a bug. I would either call it "disconnect", or change the way it works (my preferred solution).

    It's not disconnect either. Look in the MIDI matrix and you'll see it's still connected. Perhaps the right word would be "disabled". But I went for "bypass" also for MIDI nodes and Instrument nodes since that's the common term in other software when a plugin is temporarily disabled.

    I can see the point with your feature request: an option to re-route MIDI so that A -> M -> B becomes A -> B when M is bypassed. However, there are several issues with this:

    • How would AUM know if you want this or not? If the node is for example a sequencer/recorder plugin that can record incoming MIDI and therefore has both MIDI input and output, then you don't want this behaviour because you don't want your sequencer output to be replaced with your MIDI keyboard when the sequencer is bypassed. So it would need to be an option per node.
    • For a node with 1 MIDI in and 1 MIDI out it would be simple, but what about nodes with multiple inputs and/or multiple outputs, and especially a different number of inputs than outputs? Which input should then be routed to what output?
  • catherdercatherder

    @j_liljedahl thanks for your input and I can see the problem with multiple inputs / outputs. I found a solution for my setup in the form of the bus plugin in Audioveeks midi tools plugin collection that allows me to switch between different MIDI paths with just a single MIDI command.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    Something we could really use on iOS is a multi in/out MIDI fx plugin that can act as a router/multiplexer with parameter-controlled switching. I'd love to see a multi-out version of Mozaic

  • j_liljedahlj_liljedahl

    @espiegel123 said:
    Something we could really use on iOS is a multi in/out MIDI fx plugin that can act as a router/multiplexer with parameter-controlled switching. I'd love to see a multi-out version of Mozaic

    Actually a built in MIDI router node is already on my list of things to consider for the future. It would work like the built in MIDI Bus, but have multiple ins and outs and have two parameters to select input and output independently.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @j_liljedahl said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    Something we could really use on iOS is a multi in/out MIDI fx plugin that can act as a router/multiplexer with parameter-controlled switching. I'd love to see a multi-out version of Mozaic

    Actually a built in MIDI router node is already on my list of things to consider for the future. It would work like the built in MIDI Bus, but have multiple ins and outs and have two parameters to select input and output independently.

    That would be great!

  • auxmuxauxmux

    @espiegel123 said:

    @j_liljedahl said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    Something we could really use on iOS is a multi in/out MIDI fx plugin that can act as a router/multiplexer with parameter-controlled switching. I'd love to see a multi-out version of Mozaic

    Actually a built in MIDI router node is already on my list of things to consider for the future. It would work like the built in MIDI Bus, but have multiple ins and outs and have two parameters to select input and output independently.

    That would be great!

    Agreed that would be fantastic.

  • catherdercatherder

    @j_liljedahl said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    Something we could really use on iOS is a multi in/out MIDI fx plugin that can act as a router/multiplexer with parameter-controlled switching. I'd love to see a multi-out version of Mozaic

    Actually a built in MIDI router node is already on my list of things to consider for the future. It would work like the built in MIDI Bus, but have multiple ins and outs and have two parameters to select input and output independently.

    That would be great.

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